Bible verses contrasted with false teacher/s' doctrines

JoChris

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Trigger warning for Non-Christians:
If you get irritated by too many bible verses used in entries, then you are guaranteed to get extremely annoyed by this thread. :D
My personal style is when someone resorts to using whataboutism, distraction tactics, ad hominem attacks etc to take me off topic I reply with bible verses/ links that IMO answer them.
You have been warned.... don't bother complaining to me later on, I will just direct you to this first entry.

I skim past over-long entries/ insufficient spacing between paragraphs because of weakened eyesight.
I don't want to miss any good interactions if someone doesn't know I have that issue. :)

Why I strongly believe this is an important topic:
1. If we are not living in last days, then we are one day closer to Jesus' coming.
The more people who remain deceived by false religions mean the more people who reject the true Jesus and spend an eternity in Hell.

2. Saved Christians can still be led off the narrow path and fall into great sin that severely damages their faith/ good witness. False teachers [and therefore their teachings] are one tool of Satan can use to send bible-believing Christians seriously off course.

3. People might dismiss me as merely a bible-bashing fundamentalist and want to discredit me as a result. Large amounts of text written skillfully enough are potentially spiritually dangerous for those not familiar enough with the bible. The bible is Holy Spirit inspired - a specific bible verse specific to the topic has spiritual power that human reasoning does not have.

4. On a personal note I was one of those Christians who was gradually deceived by what sounded logical, reasonable to the modern mind. I fell away into serious sin until God was merciful and had me hear an evangelist remind me of the Gospel. Out of gratitude I have been informally involved in online apologetics over the years.
 

JoChris

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Message for atheists who use Jesus' commandment to not judge as a manipulation tool:

Whole passage from Jesus' preaching of Sermon on the Mount:
7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

See VERY next verse: Jesus was being judgemental here!

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Jesus says there IS a time for judging:


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We are to judge according to God's eternal standards, not ever changing worldly opinion.
 

JoChris

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For Christians who have been misled/ pressured into believing "love your neighbour as yourself" as to always make your neighbour believe you love them -- to the point where we are even pressured to lie to save their feelings:

Which commandment comes first: to love your neighbour as yourself, or to love God...?

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Obviously it is to love God. How did Jesus say we do that?

Answer: John 14:15

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JoChris

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And where is the most succinct summary of those commandments?

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here they are in Exodus chapter 20. They are still relevant today, they are paraphrased in many ways in New Testament but the message is still the same. We prove we are born again and being transformed by how much we seek to please God. [The book of 1 John is the best book for that topic].

One of the most commonly disobeyed commandments thanks to the "Woke Movement", LGBT+ rights etc. is now this one:

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JoChris

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Now for why I put the foundations down for this topic: The Internet Age has brought so many false teachings and cult leaders that people around the world would NEVER have been exposed to unless they had lived in that false teacher's area.

Christians on multiple forums and blogs do not seem to realise how dangerous our times are for deception. The Christians here should be taught how to recognise and how to expose false teachers, no matter how trivial or unimportant they may seem to the average Joe. All it takes is a several believers who are good enough at communicating their beliefs online and what may have died out quickly can spread as far as COVID.

-----
I would now like OTHER Christians to share their knowledge of Bible verses contrasted with general traits of cults and specific example will forewarn and immunise well-meaning Christians from ever considering leaving the straight and narrow path.

It is through the Sword of the Spirit that we defend the faith.
 

Lyfe

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The vast majority of people who claim to be Christian simply dont even believe in the word of God. Allot of them adhere to this idea of universalism(all paths lead to God) and that just by be being a decent human being you will go to heaven.
 

JoChris

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The vast majority of people who claim to be Christian simply dont even believe in the word of God. Allot of them adhere to this idea of universalism(all paths lead to God) and that just by be being a decent human being you will go to heaven.
Great point! So many self-declared Christians are either not born again or so bible-illiterate they don't even have that essential belief.

What does Jesus Himself say about who will go to Heaven?

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What is necessary to be saved? Only belief in Jesus.

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NOTHING else in small print. No mention of baptism. No mention of penance, good works, church traditions, prayers to Mary and saints, obeying self-declared future prophet/s or new revelations/ new "bibles".
 

YokeFellow

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...and spend an eternity in Hell.
What is Hell?

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth."


According to the Word of God, Hell is where babies (i.e., you and I) came from.

Obviously, we did not spend 'an eternity' there.
 

JoChris

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What is Hell?

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth."


According to the Word of God, Hell is where babies (i.e., you and I) came from.

Obviously, we did not spend 'an eternity' there.
hell

hĕl
noun
  1. The place of eternal punishment for the wicked after death, often imagined as being presided over by Satan and his devils.
  2. A state of separation from God; exclusion from God's presence.
  3. The abode of the dead in any of various religious traditions, such as the Hebrew Sheol or the Greek Hades; the underworld.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.
More at Wordnik

20 top bible verses about Hell
 

YokeFellow

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Those do not look like verses to me.

I will not click a link either.

Let us try this again...

Ephesians 4:9
"Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?"


Did Jesus descend into Hell or not?
 

JoChris

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Those do not look like verses to me.

I will not click a link either.

Let us try this again...

Ephesians 4:9
"Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?"


Did Jesus descend into Hell or not?
Thank you for giving me the opening for a very helpful website. Apologetics Index - scripture testing methods of the cults

There are plenty of bible commentary websites and sermon websites if you really wish/ed to learn. ;)
For people who prefer to listen, there are many sermons and conferences here. Sermonaudio.com

Bible study tools - did Jesus actually descend into Hell?



Paul says something similar in Romans 10:6-7:

6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)


Jesus was fulfilling the prophecy in Isaiah 53.
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YokeFellow

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A simple yes or no would have done. I told you I will not click on links.

Are we here to discuss actual verses or cut and paste rambling commentaries?

BTW, I knew you would dodge the question.
 

YokeFellow

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Like this...

John 3:13
"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."


In the above verse, we learn that Jesus ascended to Heaven. Do you agree? Yes/No

We also learn that Jesus came down from Heaven. Do you agree? Yes/No

Moreover, Jesus descended into Mary's Womb to incarnate. Do you agree? Yes/No

So, let us look at the verse again in that context...

Ephesians 4:9
"Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?"


Where did Jesus first descend to when he incarnated?

Jesus descended FIRST into Mary's Womb. Do you agree? Yes/No

Jesus did not magically appear on a Cross one day and descend into the lower parts of the Earth.

Jesus descended FIRST into the Womb of Mary, the LOWEST PARTS OF THE EARTH where babies come from...

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth."


Do you agree?

Again, I am looking for simple yes/no answers here.

If the answer is 'no', then give a simple explanation as to why, like...

"I believe Jesus did not go to Hell, but rather Jesus went to a place called 'the Deep' and it is a place of the Dead. Here is a verse..."

BTW, I am still waiting for your interpretation of the original verse I posted.

Why do babies come from the lowest parts of the Earth? Can you at least answer that?
 

YokeFellow

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...and spend an eternity in Hell.
Of course, any Christian that knows the basics, knows that Hell is emptied out...

Revelation 20:13
"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."


Thus, there will be no one in Hell to 'spend an eternity' in.
 

JoChris

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A simple yes or no would have done. I told you I will not click on links.

Are we here to discuss actual verses or cut and paste rambling commentaries?

BTW, I knew you would dodge the question.
If you read the bible you would be able to answer those above questions of yours.
You actually tried to suggest that HELL- an everlasting place of torment - was in fact Mary's womb.

Luke 1: 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.


I am being very polite responding to you, a person who obviously has little interest in biblical Christianity.
 

JoChris

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Of course, any Christian that knows the basics, knows that Hell is emptied out...

Revelation 20:13
"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."


Thus, there will be no one in Hell to 'spend an eternity' in.
Now explain away what Jesus said. Full chapter Matthew 13
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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@YokeFellow

“Hell” is a difficult and emotive concept, but clearly something Jesus took pains to tell people to avoid.

As a word it is often not used precisely by people, and the Bible also adds complication because what “Hell” is now is not exactly what Hell was before the Cross or will be after the judgement at the Great White Throne.

I found these observations interesting:

Regarding hell, C. S. Lewis once wrote, “There is no doctrine which I would more willingly remove from Christianity than this, if it lay in my power. But it has the full support of Scripture and, specially, of Our Lord’s own words; it has always been held by Christendom; and it has the support of reason. If a game is played, it must be possible to lose it” (The Problem of Pain, HarperCollins, 1940, pp. 119–120). Jesus taught frequently about hell—in fact, we learn far more about hell from Jesus’ words than from any other part of Scripture.

Jesus used the Valley of Hinnom near Jerusalem as an illustration of hell (Mark 9:47–48). This valley, also called Gehenna, was used as a public dump where garbage, dead animals, corpses of criminals, and all manner of uncleanness constantly burned. Jesus spoke of hell as “outer darkness” (Matthew 8:12). He mentioned fire in relation to hell at least twenty times (e.g., Matthew 5:22; 18:9).

Jesus consistently contrasted hell with the kingdom of God. Hell is the only alternative to an eternity spent in God’s kingdom. It is the opposite of perfect fellowship with God forever. We will summarize Jesus’ teaching related to hell with five words: reality, rebellion, regret, relentlessness, and reconciliation.

Reality: Jesus taught that hell is a real place where some beings will spend eternity (Matthew 23:33, 25:41; Mark 9:43). In Jesus’ teaching, hell is not figurative or symbolic; it is a real place in which real experiences take place. Jesus portrayed what hell is like with vivid imagery such as fire and darkness (Matthew 5:22; 8:8–12).

Rebellion: According to Jesus, hell is a place for those who reject God, rebelling against His kingship and refusing His grace. Jesus’ parables consistently portray people rejecting God’s invitation to fellowship, and the only alternative to fellowship with God is an eternity in hell (Matthew 22:1–14; Luke 14:15–24). Sin is a form of rebellion against God, and hell is the just punishment for sin (Matthew 5:22). The devil and his minions are the original rebels against God, and they will suffer eternally in hell, which has been prepared for them (Matthew 25:41).

Regret: Jesus does not portray hell as a pleasant place or even a neutral state. To the contrary, it is a place of torment (Mark 9:48). As the dark place outside of God’s kingdom of light, hell is full of pain and regret “There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 13:42; see also Matthew 22:13; 24:51; Luke 13:28).

Relentlessness: Based on Jesus’ teaching, hell is not temporary, but eternal. Those who suffer in hell will suffer forever. “The fire never goes out,” Jesus said (Mark 9:48, NLT; cf. Matthew 25:46). There is no exit from hell, and no respite from it or comfort in it (see Luke 16:19–31).

Reconciliation: Thankfully, there is one way to escape hell before entering. God offers us reconciliation with Him, so that we never have to experience hell. That reconciliation was made possible through the death and resurrection of His Son, Jesus Christ. Jesus, the One who warned us about hell so often, is the One who saves us from hell. Through faith in Christ, anyone can be reconciled to God, apart from personal merit or virtue. Jesus gives the promise, “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life” (John 5:24).

 

YokeFellow

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Now explain away what Jesus said. Full chapter Matthew 13
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Lol, you do not bother to answer my questions, yet you expect me to answer yours. OK Op no problem.

The explanation is simple...

The Unsaved that are in Hell will be taken out of Hell and thrown into something called the Lake of Fire.

Another word for the Lake of Fire is Gehenna, where children are born out of...

Matthew 23:15 (Berean Literal Bible)
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you traverse the sea and the dry land to make one convert, and whenever it may happen, you make him twofold more a son of Gehenna than yourselves."


The above verse is from Jesus. Who would know more about the Lake of Fire (Gehenna) than the Son of God?

Therefore, if Jesus teaches that children are born out of the Lake of Fire, I believe him!

Now, are you going to now deny me the literal interpretation?
 

YokeFellow

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@YokeFellow
“Hell” is a difficult and emotive concept, but clearly something Jesus took pains to tell people to avoid.
I completely disagree. Hell is one of the simplest concepts imaginable. Again, it is where we all came from!

The problem is that you folks have never bothered to actually believe the verses pertaining to Hell. Moreover, you have been so utterly brainwashed by the lies told to you by the Church that you are in a perpetual state of Cognitive Dissoanance as OP is clearly demonstrating by avoiding my questions.

How about you @Red Sky at Morning . What is your interpretation of this verse...

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth."


What is the 'Lowest Parts of the Earth' and why do babies come from there?
 
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