Christ’s Second Coming according to the Bible.

TokiEl

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God and Jesus have been around forever-
Jesus said:- "Father you loved me before the creation of the world" (John 17:24)
So we can regard the holy spirit as something that has always filled the universe-
God said- "Am I only a nearby God? Can you hide? I fill heaven and earth" (Jeremiah 23:23/4)
So even before Jesus arrived on earth, the holy spirit was there for people to tap into if they tried, and no doubt some did manage it, but to make it less difficult, Jesus arrived to give us a helping hand.

PS- Helen Keller contracted suspected meningitis as a baby which left her deaf and blind for the rest of her life.
She learned to communicate by tapping her fingers on people's hands, and when she was asked as an adult- "What was it like to be told about Jesus for the first time?", she replied "I always knew he was there"
Acts 17 30 Although God overlooked the ignorance of earlier times, He now commands all people everywhere to repent. 31For He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the Man He has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising Him from the dead.
 

phipps

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Our minds must be cleansed before the second coming.

The Bible says that nothing that defiles will be admitted into the kingdom of God (Revelation 21:27). Therefore, at the Second Coming, Jesus will not come to save us in our sins, or to cleanse our minds from all filth. No, the cleansing must be done before Jesus returns, if we are to follow Him when He arrives to gather His own (I Thessalonians 5:23; Ephesians 1:4; 5:27; Revelation 7:14; 14:1-5). Jesus died for us. His blood was shed on the cross for us. However, only whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life (John 3:16). Let us accept this offer of both grace and salvation now, and let us receive His might to live in newness of life! He has enough power!
 

Thunderian

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People post in VC from time to time saying God will forgive the jews because they're his 'chosen people'.
You said the Jews believe they will be forgiven because they're God's chosen people, now you say it's posters here. Do you have evidence of either of those claims? Find me one of those posts.
 

Tidal

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Tidal said- People post in VC from time to time saying God will forgive the jews because they're his 'chosen people'.
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You said the Jews believe they will be forgiven because they're God's chosen people, now you say it's posters here. Do you have evidence of either of those claims? Find me one of those posts.

I'm not sure what you mean mate.
Yesterday you called Phipps a liar for saying jews were no longer God's chosen people, and you posted this verse to suggest they are-
Romans 11:1– I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

i agree 100% with Phipps, the jews are going up the spout unless they repent and become Christians before they die, just like all other Jesus-rejecters..:)
 

Thunderian

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i agree 100% with Phipps, the jews are going up the spout unless they repent and become Christians before they die, just like all other Jesus-rejecters.
And I agree with that, too. In fact, you are going up the spout as well, because you reject the divinity of Jesus Christ, and I guarantee @phipps agrees with me, but that’s not what we were talking about.

You said that the Jews believe they will get a second crack at repentance because of their special status in the eyes of God. I’ve never heard a Jew say that, and it’s certainly not in the Bible, but you plainly stated it.

But what about Jews? They seem to think that God will give them - and only them - a second chance to repent because they're his 'chosen people'.
I asked for some evidence of that, and instead you pivoted and said that posters here at VC were saying that.

People post in VC from time to time saying God will forgive the jews because they're his 'chosen people'.
I’ve never seen any Christian here or anywhere else make that claim, so again, I asked for proof.

This was your response.

I'm not sure what you mean mate.
Yesterday you called Phipps a liar for saying jews were no longer God's chosen people, and you posted this verse to suggest they are-
Romans 11:1– I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
@phipps is a liar, and so is anyone who says God has finished with his people, the Jews. Paul stated quite clearly, well after the Jews rejected Jesus, that God is not done with his people. I haven’t heard an argument against that verse from @phipps, but he’s afraid to address any of my questions, so I don’t take it personally. However, I’m mystified as to what bearing you think that verse has on your contention that the Jews, or any posters on this board, think Jews have a second chance at repentance. I’m still waiting for you to provide some proof that anyone believes that.
 

phipps

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Thought Questions about the second coming.

1. Isn’t the great tribulation yet to come?
It is true that a terrible tribulation is coming and will cover the earth just before Jesus returns to deliver His people. Daniel described it as “a time of trouble, such as never was” (Daniel 12:1). This time of trouble will happen before Jesus returns and the righteous will be right here on earth during the tribulation according to the Bible. The living righteous/God's people will be protected from the plagues that will be going on around them in the world but they will right here on earth.

Revelation 16:1-15 talks about the six plagues that are poured out and during the sixth plague Jesus says in verse 15, "Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.” What sense would it make to declare that, if He had already come as a thief before the plagues were poured out? And lets not forget that when Jesus comes back He will be coming back for both the righteous dead and living (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17). They won't be in heaven before the tribulation therefore.

Revelation 15:8 declares, "and no one was able to enter the temple till the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed." The heavenly temple is heaven and we know Jesus is coming back for the righteous to take them with Him back to heaven. So they won't enter until after the seven plagues have been poured out on earth which is in complete harmony with God's Word.

2. Will people get a second chance during the tribulation?
The parables of Jesus do not give the impression that anyone will get a second chance during the tribulation. They make it plain that the Second Coming of Jesus is a divine climactic event—men and women will be either saved or lost. There will be no seven-year period to reconsider our lives. Now is the day of salvation (2 Corinthians 6:2).

In Matthew 13:30, both the wheat and the tares (the followers and rejecters of God) grow together until the harvest. The followers are saved and the rejecters are lost.

In the parable of the unfaithful servant, there is no second chance. The unfaithful are lost when the Lord of the household comes unexpectedly.

In the parable of the sheep and goats, men and women are either saved or lost when Jesus comes.

3. Will the antichrist be revealed before or after Christ's second return?
2 Thessalonians 2:1-10 makes it plain that the Antichrist will be revealed before Jesus comes, not later during a time of probation, and that the Antichrist is destroyed by the brightness of His coming. Verses 3-4 say, "Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." The Bible says that there is going to be a rebellion, an apostasy, a great falling away from the faith. In conjunction with this apostasy, the “man of lawlessness”—also known as “the antichrist” and the “man of sin”—will be revealed. This great antichrist will set himself up in God’s temple and counterfeit the ministry of Jesus.

What will happen to this antichrist, and how will we recognise him? Verses 8-10, “And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”

The way to avoid being deceived by the great antichrist and his counterfeit miracles is to have a love of the truth. And where is the truth to be found? It’s in the Bible, Psalm 119:160, “The entirety of Your word is truth, And every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever.”

4. When will Christ set up His kingdom on the earth?

After the great 1,000-year period of Revelation 20. This millennium begins at the second coming, when Jesus takes the righteous from earth to heaven to live and reign with Him “a thousand years” (Revelation 20:4). At the close of the 1,000 years, “the holy city, new Jerusalem” (Revelation 21:2) comes down from heaven to the earth with all the saints (Zechariah 14:1, 5) and the wicked dead of all ages are raised to life (Revelation 20:5). They surround the city to capture it (Revelation 20:9), but fire comes down from out of heaven and devours them. This fire purifies the earth and burns up all traces of sin (2 Peter 3:10, Malachi 4:3). Then God creates a new earth (2 Peter 3:13; Isaiah 65:17; Revelation 21:1) and gives it to the righteous, and “God Himself will be with them and be their God” (Revelation 21:3). Perfect, holy, happy beings, restored once again to the perfect image of God, will at last be at home in a sinless, spotless world as God originally planned.

5. Why don’t we hear more preaching and teaching today regarding Christ’s second coming?
The devil is responsible. He well knows that the second coming is the “blessed hope” (Titus 2:13) of the Christian, and that once understood, it changes the lives of men and women and leads them to take a personal, active part in spreading that good news to others. This infuriates Satan, so he influences those who have “a form of godliness” (2 Timothy 3:5) to scoff, saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning” (2 Peter 3:3-4). Those who deny or make light of Christ’s second advent as a literal, soon coming event are fulfilling Bible prophecy—and doing the devil a service.

6. But wasn’t Jesus speaking of a secret rapture when He said in Luke 17:36, “One will be taken and the other left”?
No. There is no indication that the event is secret. Jesus was describing Noah’s flood and the destruction of Sodom. (Luke 17:26–37.) He told how God spared Noah and Lot and destroyed the wicked. He said specifically that the flood and fire “destroyed them all” (verses 27, 29). Plainly, in each case, a few were taken to safety and the rest were destroyed. Then He added, “Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed” (verse 30). To illustrate, Jesus continued, “Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left” (verse 36). There is nothing secret about His return. “Every eye will see Him” (Revelation 1:7). At His second coming, Christ publicly and openly takes the righteous up into the clouds (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17), while His holy presence slays the wicked (Isaiah 11:4; 2 Thessalonians 2:8). That’s why Luke 17:37 speaks of the bodies of the wicked and mentions the eagles (or vultures) gathered around them. (See also Revelation 19:17-18) The wicked who are left behind at Christ’s coming are left dead.
 
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Tidal

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phipps is a liar, and so is anyone who says God has finished with his people, the Jews...
Paul stated quite clearly, well after the Jews rejected Jesus, that God is not done with his people.
I’m mystified as to your contention that the Jews, or any posters on this board, think Jews have a second chance at repentance. I’m still waiting for you to provide some proof that anyone believes that.

There, you seem to be saying yourself the jews will get a "second chance", or have I misunderstood you. Are you jewish?..:p
Paul was simply pointing out that God hasn't abandoned the jews or any other jesus-rejecters, he's giving them all the exact same chance to accept Jesus BEFORE they die.
Logic it out mate, heaven is a "Christians only gated community", so there's no way Jesus-rejecters are going to get in whether they're jews or anybody else, because the gatekeeper will say to them-

"Oppit!"
 
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Thunderian

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There, you seem to be saying yourself the jews will get a "second chance", or have I misunderstood you. Are you jewish?..:p
Paul was simply pointing out that God hasn't abandoned the jews or any other jesus-rejecters, he's giving them all the exact same chance to accept Jesus BEFORE they die.
Logic it out mate, heaven is a "Christians only gated community", so there's no way Jesus-rejecters are going to get in whether they're jews or anybody else, because the gatekeeper will say to them-
You are reading things into the text that simply aren't there. It makes no mention of any other Jesus-rejecters. It addresses the question that was being asked at that time, which was "Has God rejected Israel?" The Bible, should you care to study it, details the special relationship between God and Israel, and lists the promises of God toward them that have yet to be fulfilled. God speaks of his love for Israel. He calls Israel his child, the apple of his eye. There is no other group that is described in such terms. Regardless, there is no other way to God than through Jesus Christ, and that decision must be made here on earth. No one is exempt, not even the Jews. I'm not sure where you get your ideas from.
 

Tidal

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The Bible, should you care to study it, details the special relationship between God and Israel, and lists the promises of God toward them that have yet to be fulfilled...I'm not sure where you get your ideas from.

From the Bible.. :p
The jews murdered Jesus, so God won't cut them any slack at all unless they show true repentance and become Christians before they die-
"How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot....it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Heb 10:29-31)
Nonchristians "..will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath" (Revelation 14:10)




Below: Jesus in action against the snooty jewish priests-

 
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Thunderian

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The jews murdered Jesus, so God won't cut them any slack at all unless they show true repentance and become Christians before they die-
It sounds like you’re saying that the only reason Jews need to repent in the first place is because they “murdered” Jesus. Is that what you meant to say?

Can I ask you what makes Jesus so special?
 

Tidal

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It sounds like you’re saying that the only reason Jews need to repent in the first place is because they “murdered” Jesus. Is that what you meant to say?
Can I ask you what makes Jesus so special?

1- If the jews didn't kill Jesus who did, Mary Poppins?.. :D

2- All other religious founders are corpses in boxes somewhere but Jesus is not, spot the difference?
and Jesus's 37 miracles also make him special, heck I bet not even David Blaine can do some of that stuff!

"Hey Lazarus mate, come on out of there, your dinner's ready"
 

Thunderian

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1- If the jews didn't kill Jesus who did, Mary Poppins?.. :D
You think you’re being funny, but you either don’t understand what I’m asking, or you’re pretending you don’t.

Do you believe the only thing that Jewish people have to repent of is killing Jesus? What then do others have to repent of? If the Jews hadn’t killed Jesus, do you think they’d have a clear road to Heaven, with no repentance necessary? I know the answers to all these questions, but I’m trying to get a handle on what you’re saying.

2- All other religious founders are corpses in boxes somewhere but Jesus is not, spot the difference?
and Jesus's 37 miracles also make him special, heck I bet not even David Blaine can do some of that stuff!
But the Jews put a lot of prophets to death, and a lot of those prophets performed miracles. Why would their killing of Jesus be especially meaningful or egregious in your eyes?
 

Tidal

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You think you’re being funny..

O God please make me funny (sniffle)..

Do you believe the only thing that Jewish people have to repent of is killing Jesus? What then do others have to repent of? If the Jews hadn’t killed Jesus, do you think they’d have a clear road to Heaven, with no repentance necessary? I know the answers to all these questions, but I’m trying to get a handle on what you’re saying.

I'm not sure what you're asking mate, the ONLY thing that matters to God is whether people are Christians.
Therefore any nonchristians (whether they're jews or any other jesus-rejecters) are going up the spout, it's not rocket science..:)

But the Jews put a lot of prophets to death, and a lot of those prophets performed miracles. Why would their killing of Jesus be especially meaningful or egregious in your eyes?

I had to look up 'egregious' in the dictionary:-
'extraordinary in some bad way, glaring, flagrant'
So yeah, i'd say murdering Jesus was a touch egregious..:)
As for other prophets, the jews killed some of them too, it was a bad habit of theirs.
However their knives were out for Jesus more than for the others because he said he was the Son of God, and they couldn't handle that!


High Priest- "Jesus of Nazareth, alias the Messiah, the Christ and the Son of God, you stand accused of upsetting us real bad, how do you plead?"
Jesus- "On yer bike Charlie!"


 

Thunderian

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However their knives were out for Jesus more than for the others because he said he was the Son of God, and they couldn't handle that!
According to their law, he was committing blasphemy, for which the penalty was death. They thought they were being obedient to God’s law. You’re calling his death by their hands murder, so you must disagree with them, and agree that Jesus Christ is the son of God.
 

Tidal

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According to their law, he was committing blasphemy, for which the penalty was death. They thought they were being obedient to God’s law. You’re calling his death by their hands murder, so you must disagree with them, and agree that Jesus Christ is the son of God.

Yup we know Jesus was the Son of God because he said so himself..:)-
Jesus said - "I am going to the Father, for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28 )
Jesus said -"Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)
Jesus said - "Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)


So the snooty Jewish leaders went ballistic and decided he was blaspheming-

Net-"Blasphemy is a religious offence, when a person says or does something regarded as being disrespectful to God. In the eyes of the Jewish leaders, when Jesus claimed to be God's son he was insulting God"

 

Thunderian

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Yup we know Jesus was the Son of God because he said so himself..:)-
Jesus said - "I am going to the Father, for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28 )
Jesus said -"Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)
Jesus said - "Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)


So the snooty Jewish leaders went ballistic and decided he was blaspheming-

Net-"Blasphemy is a religious offence, when a person says or does something regarded as being disrespectful to God. In the eyes of the Jewish leaders, when Jesus claimed to be God's son he was insulting God"

So Jesus is the Son of God, but has no divinity? That’s impossible.
 

Thunderian

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Depends what you mean by 'divinity' mate.
For example I think the woman in the chip shop is absolutely divine..:)
If you don’t know what I mean this conversation is beyond your capabilities. Sorry to have wasted your time, mate.
 

phipps

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Are the elect raptured before the tribulation?

One must question, if the “elect,” or God’s people, are raptured before “the great tribulation,” why would they need the days “shortened?” Actually, all throughout the Bible, we are given examples of God’s people being saved in the middle of tribulations, not being saved before it.

When the Israelites were captive in Egypt, God preserved them in the midst of the plagues that devastated Egypt. Just as Israel was delivered from Egyptian bondage after the plagues, so God's church will be protected through the plagues and be delivered from the hand of the oppressor (1 Corinthians 10:11; Psalm 91; Psalm 46).

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego entered the flames when they refused to yield to the universal death decree of Babylon's King. Their death-defying faith forced them to face the flames of tribulation, and in those flames God miraculously delivered them (Daniel 3:16-28).

Daniel’s decision to be faithful in his daily prayers caused him to be tossed into the lion’s den. God saved Daniel while he was going through tribulation, not before it came (Daniel 6).

Similarly, right before Christ returns, the faithfulness of the elect will cause them to be the target of the ungodly, bringing about a time of persecution and great tribulation. However, just as throughout all of Biblical history, God preserves His elect. The same Jesus that was with the Hebrew men in the fire and lion’s den, will go with us through our trials. When the last day judgments are poured out on the world, God will shield those who follow Him with all their heart and mind.
 

phipps

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Seven Year Tribulation

First, there is no biblical evidence for a seven-year period of tribulation following Jesus’ return to Earth. And the Bible is clear that when Jesus returns, every person’s eternal fate has been decided; individuals who are lost will not have a second chance to be saved. Jesus says, “Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work” (Revelation 22:12). The Bible presents Jesus’ second coming as the great climactic event of the ages when men and women are either saved or lost for eternity. There is no seven-year period to reconsider our lives and change our destiny. Jesus pictured the separation that will take place at His coming between the righteous and the wicked—the saved and the lost—in these words: “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world’ . . . Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels’ ” (Matthew 25:31-34, 41).

That is not to say there will not be a tribulation. The Bible does certainly foretell of a soon coming “time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation, even to that time” before Jesus’ return (Daniel 12:1). However, does Scripture support the interpretation that Christian believers will be raptured, and taken away from the tribulation, leaving only the wicked?

Jesus doesn’t leave us in the dark and sheds light on the event that will be like none other before it. “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened” (Matthew 24:21-22).
 
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