Hell & The Odds of an Afterlife

[Lyfe]

Hell & The Odds of an Afterlife

I am taking this from another thread and making a topic off of it. This was discussion between me and another forum member.

shankara said:

Yeah I'm quite comfortable in the knowledge, brought about by reason, that the Christian narrative is untrue. I'm not fighting it, not losing any sleep worrying if I will end up in eternal hell.

...and what is this confidence based off? Lets consider the odds from a probability standpoint.

The two major world religions are Christianity and Islam. Judaism obviously deserves recognition, but is minor in comparison to the other two.

Islam teaches that all unbelievers will be judged by God and will be chastised for their sin in hell
Christianity also teaches that there will be a judgment and everyone who is not written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire
Judaism teaches that YHWH will judge the nations and that his wrath is against those who do not keep Torah

Based off of these three predominate belief systems you will eventually pay a consequence for your sin. What are the odds that all three of these beliefs are wrong and what chances do you have from a probability perspective? You could rule out Christianity, but what about Judaism and Islam? What are the odds that all three contain a false narrative of reality?

Now lets consider all the other cultures that believed and held the idea of an afterlife of torment. The Greeks believed in a place called Hades. Zoroastrianism speaks of an afterlife of torment if ones evil deeds outweigh the good. Buddism and Hinduism being less predominant teach of a concept of the afterlife where one endures a form of chastisement(though not as severe) for ignorance.

The question you have to ask yourself is based off of all these belief systems what are the odds and what is the probability that at the very least all of the three predominant ones which condemn you are all wrong? The three primary world religions condemn you and that's only three. If I looked at this from an objective standpoint I would conclude there exists a very real chance one of the three accounts of creation and the creator will condemn me according to their rules. Even if there was a 33% chance of only one of the three accounts being right, that is still a significant gamble with ones soul to dismiss the idea of hell entirely as there remains a significant possibility. Who would drive on a bridge where there is a 33% chance it may collapse? Now I ask again what is your confidence based off of and does that confidence still remain when you consider scientific evidence and cultures with history that speak of a worldwide flood, the genesis 6 giants roaming the earth, and extra historical accounts of Jesus Christ?

Have you really weighed the evidence and odds objectively?

 

[Aero]

Are you proud of your math here? Because I'm not even a math wiz, and even I'm a little offended.

I might be a little behind on my Jewish mysticism, but I'm pretty sure Jewish people don't even believe what you are claiming they believe. Furthermore, your list of religions with grand end of life judgment rituals literally stops after the ones you wrote up. Pretty much every other religion has a completely different end of life scenario.

When probability theory is used properly, the odds of non-judgment are actually just fine.

 

[seekinheart]

On a fundamental level, how could someone support a god/world that doesnt deal out justice for acts of this life?

 

[cjkkw]

how does jesuschrist deal with crazies?

 

[shankara]

On a fundamental level, how could someone support a god/world that doesnt deal out justice for acts of this life?

There is no problem with the notion of Karmic retribution. The problem lies with that retribution being unending.

 

[Alanantic]

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." -- Marcus Aurelius

"All these sufferings are man-made and it is within man's power to put an end to them. God helps by facing man with the results of his actions and demanding that the balance should be restored. Karma is the law that works for righteousness; it is the healing hand of God." -- Nisargadatta

 

[shankara]

@Lyfe maybe we should keep the discussion here?

I think your complete dismissal of the possibility is not logical based off of the aforementioned accounts.

All your accounts prove is that a lot of people believe something. How many people believe something is in no way evidence of whether or not it is true, in fact thinking like that is a logical fallacy known as "appeal to popular belief".

 

[Lyfe]

@Lyfe maybe we should keep the discussion here?



All your accounts prove is that a lot of people believe something. How many people believe something is in no way evidence of whether or not it is true, in fact thinking like that is a logical fallacy known as "appeal to popular belief".

The point is that your absolute confidence that there isnt a hell is unfounded by logical deduction. You have reached the conclusion that you wont go to hell and you are basing that off of your opinion and subjective reasoning skills which no scientist, researcher, or detective would consider a truly legitimate means to determine the said reality in question. Every major religion(not just Christianity) has determined you to be an enmity with God and you dismiss it on the basis of your opinion. Your confidence that you wont perish isnt founded on anything very substantial. Its as I said if you consider it from an odds perspective and apply the same logic that you make mention of than you have to use more than just opinion to completely rule out chances of hell to help you arrive at a 0% probability chance of you going to hell. Three of the major religions today stand in the way of you doing that. What are the odds and probability ALL three of these religions are wrong? Your the one taking the chances....

 

[shankara]

The point is that your absolute confidence that there isnt a hell is unfounded by logical deduction. You have reached the conclusion that you wont go to hell and you are basing that off of your opinion and subjective reasoning skills which no scientist, researcher, or detective would consider a truly legitimate means to determine the said reality in question. Every major religion(not just Christianity) has determined you to be an enmity with God and you dismiss it on the basis of your opinion. Your confidence that you wont perish isnt founded on anything very substantial. Its as I said if you consider it from an odds perspective and apply the same logic that you make mention of than you have to use more than just opinion to completely rule out chances of hell to help you arrive at a 0% probability chance of you going to hell. Three of the major religions today stand in the way of you doing that. What are the odds and probability ALL three of these religions are wrong? Your the one taking the chances....

No, I don't believe that there is no hell. I believe that there is no eternal hell. There is a huge difference between the two ideas. None of the Dharmic religions have the concept of an eternal hell, and avoiding hell is not their primary purpose.

 

[Aero]

This reminds me of typical Christian self-aggrandizing.

How else could one explain the OP completely ignoring major religions from a large portion of the world? It's like India, China, and Japan don't exist in the Christian world view.

 

[Lyfe]

This reminds me of typical Christian self-aggrandizing.

How else could one explain the OP completely ignoring major religions from a large portion of the world? It's like India, China, and Japan don't exist in the Christian world view.

In the OP

Buddism and Hinduism being less predominant teach of a concept of the afterlife where one endures a form of chastisement(though not as severe) for ignorance.

 

[Lyfe]

In eastern religions ignorance is the great sin and there is even a form of punishment reserved for the unenlightened.

 

[Lyfe]

No, I don't believe that there is no hell. I believe that there is no eternal hell. There is a huge difference between the two ideas. None of the Dharmic religions have the concept of an eternal hell, and avoiding hell is not their primary purpose.

Do you suggest that avoiding hell is the primary purpose of the Bible?

 

[Aero]

In the OP

Buddism and Hinduism being less predominant teach of a concept of the afterlife where one endures a form of chastisement(though not as severe) for ignorance.

Hinduism is the dominant religion of India. So according to your appeal to popular belief, they are doing it right.

Either way, you still ignored the entire Asian population. You also neglected to mention over 1 billion people in the world identify as atheist, agnostic or have no religion.

 

[seekinheart]

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." -- Marcus Aurelius

"All these sufferings are man-made and it is within man's power to put an end to them. God helps by facing man with the results of his actions and demanding that the balance should be restored. Karma is the law that works for righteousness; it is the healing hand of God." -- Nisargadatta

define a good life?

define what is good?

 

[Hubert]

What are the odds and probability ALL three of these religions are wrong?

Near infinite. There is no evidence to support any particular view, and since we are talking about different dimensions, literally everything is possible. Therefor the odds of any of the three major religions, or any religion at all, getting it right are practically, but not actually, zero.

 

[Lyfe]

Hinduism is the dominant religion of India. So according to your appeal to popular belief, they are doing it right.

Either way, you still ignored the entire Asian population. You also neglected to mention over 1 billion people in the world identify as atheist, agnostic or have no religion.

I took the predominant beliefs of the world we live in and than asked a valid question. What are the odds of ALL these beliefs(as a collective) that foretell of divine chastisement for sin(in the context of their doctrine) being wrong?

 

[Lyfe]

If I deny the existence of a hell or a divine chastisement after death than what are the odds that what ALL these beliefs teach on the matter are wrong?

On this basis is it founded or unfounded for someone to deny the existence of hell or divine chastisement after death when they contend in the utmost certainty they arent going there.....

 

[Hubert]

I took the predominant beliefs of the world we live in and than asked a valid question. What are the odds of ALL these beliefs(as a collective) that foretell of divine chastisement for sin(in the context of their doctrine) being wrong?

Again, near infinite. They have a non zero probability of being correct, but that is all. Wrong is a much larger category than right.

It seems like you are trying to set up some false dichotomy where there either is or isn't a hell and you are treating those two possibilities as equally likely. This is like saying that you win the lottery, or you don't. There are only two possible outcomes, but the outcomes are not equally likely.

 

[Lyfe]

Again, near infinite. They have a non zero probability of being correct, but that is all. Wrong is a much larger category than right.

It seems like you are trying to set up some false dichotomy where there either is or isn't a hell and you are treating those two possibilities as equally likely. This is like saying that you win the lottery, or you don't. There are only two possible outcomes, but the outcomes are not equally likely.

Zero probability based off of what?