On the Trinity:

[Infinityloop]

Someone posted this elsewhere but it was good:

ASSERTION: There are plenty of bible verses in the OT about how God is acknowledged by the Jewish people as the one who is their "salvation" himself before Jesus decided to play God in the NT a couple thousand years later; Exodus 15:2, Psalm 65:5, Psalm 25:5, Isaiah 12:2, Psalm 62:1.

This is just the start of it. GOD in the OT is obviously referred to also as the ROCK, I AM and the LORD as you all should know by now to those who've read it. God chose Moses to lead Israel on the path to their God. Here's a great example of Moses speaking about God, Deuteronomy 32:1-16. Key verses; Deuteronomy 32:3-4 and Deuteronomy 32:15. Moses states that God is the rock and that he is the savior/salvation and that rejecting him leaves dire consequences as mentioned throughout all of deuteronomy 32.

God himself is referred to as the savior and salvation already right off the bat before the NT existed. God is even referred to as "salvation for Israel;" Jeramiah 3:23.

God explicitly says in the OT, "I am the savior and there is no other besides me;" Isaiah 45:21-22 and Isaiah 43:11. This is a big problem for Christians and quite evidently disproves the whole idea of the "New Covenant."

This begs the question, what is the purpose of Jesus when God himself before Jesus' time already said that he is the savior and there is no other besides him and that we should turn to God for salvation before the NT and Jesus even existed?

P.S, this is GOD himself speaking these words. Not a middleman, not a son of god, not a son of man, not a prophet, not a messiah, not a man of god... just GOD himself in the so called, "Old Testament."

Let's put all the pieces of evidence from the OT together that we have established thus far:


1. Before Jesus, God himself said he was the savior and that there is no other besides him.

2. Before Jesus, Moses referred to God as the Rock and the savior.

3. Most OT iconic figures and OT prophets referred to God as their savior.

 

[seekinheart]

Someone posted this elsewhere but it was good:

ASSERTION: There are plenty of bible verses in the OT about how God is acknowledged by the Jewish people as the one who is their "salvation" himself before Jesus decided to play God in the NT a couple thousand years later; Exodus 15:2, Psalm 65:5, Psalm 25:5, Isaiah 12:2, Psalm 62:1.

This is just the start of it. GOD in the OT is obviously referred to also as the ROCK, I AM and the LORD as you all should know by now to those who've read it. God chose Moses to lead Israel on the path to their God. Here's a great example of Moses speaking about God, Deuteronomy 32:1-16. Key verses; Deuteronomy 32:3-4 and Deuteronomy 32:15. Moses states that God is the rock and that he is the savior/salvation and that rejecting him leaves dire consequences as mentioned throughout all of deuteronomy 32.

God himself is referred to as the savior and salvation already right off the bat before the NT existed. God is even referred to as "salvation for Israel;" Jeramiah 3:23.

God explicitly says in the OT, "I am the savior and there is no other besides me;" Isaiah 45:21-22 and Isaiah 43:11. This is a big problem for Christians and quite evidently disproves the whole idea of the "New Covenant."

This begs the question, what is the purpose of Jesus when God himself before Jesus' time already said that he is the savior and there is no other besides him and that we should turn to God for salvation before the NT and Jesus even existed?

P.S, this is GOD himself speaking these words. Not a middleman, not a son of god, not a son of man, not a prophet, not a messiah, not a man of god... just GOD himself in the so called, "Old Testament."

Let's put all the pieces of evidence from the OT together that we have established thus far:


1. Before Jesus, God himself said he was the savior and that there is no other besides him.

2. Before Jesus, Moses referred to God as the Rock and the savior.

3. Most OT iconic figures and OT prophets referred to God as their savior.

But this is because God is Triune and the role of the saviour already existed because he existed beyond time. This doesnt prove anything once again, it doesnt contradict christian doctrine at all.

 

[seekinheart]

I only watched this vid again this guy doesnt really understand the trinity.

Jesus doesnt act according to his own will, HIS WILL IS IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE FATHER. The father and the son are one, therefore the father acts via the son, and the son can petition to the father. The father - the son - the holy spirit. They are equally God, but have different roles in the Trinity. When we pray we actually are told to pray to the father, and ask for Jesus's intercession.

You wouldnt really expect any less from a Trinity, it doesnt make sense Jesus could just do what he wanted according to his own will, that would nullify the father.

 

[DavidSon]

It's actually more empowering and honorable to associate with the man who Jesus must have been, versus the fantasy God Man and the weirdo Paulian Christologies that the Holy Roman Empire built a religion upon. Jesus, like John the Baptist was this Essenic (Therapeut), Nazarite, ascetic figure who revived faith in God and hope for a Kingdom of God. For me acknowledging him as a Prophet and Messiah has a much more real effect in the here-and-now than atonement theologies.

To bring him up again, James was universally acknowledged by the Church Fathers as the successor of Jesus. To grasp that the first Jewish Christians were known as "the poor", were scattered by the Herodians (Paul) and Romans- north into the deserts of Syrian and South into the Arabian Peninsula; that it was those forms of Syriac and Jewish Christianity that influenced Mohammad and his family is really exciting.

 

[lightseeker]

@Infinityloop Genesis 1 shows God as a trinity - "And the spirit of God moved over the face of the waters." "And God said (the Word) let their be Light" Right in the first verses you have the Father, the word, and the spirit.

Then, "And they heard the sound of the Lord walking in the garden, and they hid themselves among the trees of the garden". While we don't know what the Garden was like exactly in the Bible, it is clear that it was a created existence and adam and eve existed as beings, and they saw this manifestation of God and interacted with God. How did the simple unitive essence of God walk in the gardens? How did he exist within time and space? Is it the essence of God? Is it an angelic created hologrom? Is it the singular Father or a created person?

There was a christian sect, the Arians that denied the trinity. All of their claims are adaquately responded to within Athanasius
text Against the Arians

CHURCH FATHERS: Discourse I Against the Arians (Athanasius)

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.

www.newadvent.org

Do you argue that the trinity is false because God is an absolutely simple uncreated essence? Or why?

If you want my personal opinion, God is something vast, profound, and not able to be defined by any words. Any apparent contradictions in doctrines between the Messiahs or enlightened Beings, is only due to the way they expressed God in time and space. i believe Mohammed taught the people around him a radical unitive view of God because that was what they needed, and furthermore, it is true. I believe that the Christians received their view of God in another manner because of the same reasons. God can never be perfectly defined or explained because words are exclusionary and relative by nature, and God is neither, but both of their doctrines take their disciples to a unitive vision and experience of God which is what matters, the living doctrine, not the letter.

Furthermore, in Judaic Kaballah, God has 10 components, to put it simply, and actually 40, because 10 in the 4 worlds. Yet they follow the commandment The Lord your God is one God etc..They see that God can exist as a unitive essence outside of creation (Allah) and yet his actions and extensions within manifestation consist of parts and components (El, Elohim, Eloah va daath, Shadai, Adonai, Sabaoth, etc. All words for different aspects of one singular unitive God within creation, and there's no contradiction there. Just as one human body can house mind, emotions, and instincts, three different intelligences, in one unitive body

 

[TokiEl]

There is God and there is the Word of God and there is the Spirit of God.

These three are one.