Coronavirus

Lisa

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Nearly EVERYONE who recovers from coronavirus develops antibodies to it: 95% of patients had the immune cells within 3 weeks, Chinese study finds
  • Chinese researchers studied blood from 285 coronavirus patients
  • Within the first week after diagnosis, 40% developed short-term antibodies, and 95% had them within two weeks
  • All of the patients developed longer term antibodies within three weeks of infection
  • It's not yet clear how long the protection from reinfection will last, but the study provides encouraging evidence that nearly all patients will have some immunity
 

justjess

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Aero

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I agree with you. This is an embarrassing failure. A business owner reported he offered to make something like a million masks a week for the feds back months ago and they never got back to him so he’s been shipping them overseas. It’s a disgrace.im just saying that healthcare workers getting infected isn’t proof masks don’t work, most of them didn’t have masks or had faulty ones etc.

We can’t expect a vaccine lol. They’ve never been able to successfully make a vaccine for a corona virus ever. It’s just something their saying to keep people calm or make themselves look like they’re trying to do something (and funnel money to friends) when they are doing no such thing.

I have to go back to work next week and I’ve been flat out told I can wear a mask but I can’t require my client to, which defeats the whole entire purpose. It’s all a bunch of bullshit.
So how can you continue to support the lockdowns?

I did at first because I thought people were voluntarily complying. But that feeling lasted maybe a week, until it became clear everyone is still about business as usual. All my employer has done is put up a bunch of stupid social distancing decals all over the damn store. Those same social distancing guidelines that BTW don't work in a grocery store. Because the whole design of the store is counter to giving people personal space!

To take that a bit further, all the government has done was tell us, citizens, it's up to us to solve the problem. And it's all the more obvious day, by day that the people have chosen herd immunity.
 

Lisa

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No one halts the economy like this for no reason. Especially not for a bogus reason like Trump. Trump made them all richer with the strike of a pen, why would they really want him out? And if they wanted to get rid of him they could do it without starting/faking a plague. Kind of makes you think about the power of the deep state if they couldn’t just JFK him.
They couldn’t get to him...they tried and tried but just couldn’t do it..so they figured they would crash everything...wrecking his legacy and see if that worked. They have the press in their pockets and they can end this crisis when their guy gets into office..cause he for sure can’t get us out of this...he can’t even make sense when he opens his mouth.
 

Lisa

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^ domestic mask situation i mentioned earlier

@Lisa - laws are laws. You seem to have a great affinity for these law breakers who are only breaking them for the mighty dollar? Is that what it takes to thaw your cold heart?
I just know that people who break this kind of law are doing it to survive...why can’t we let them survive..no one has to show up to their restaurant and if they do they can wear a mask. How about we go back to adults deciding for themselves? But you would rather they be homeless and give them a tent and some food.
 

justjess

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So how can you continue to support the lockdowns?

I did at first because I thought people were voluntarily complying. But that feeling lasted maybe a week, until it became clear everyone is still about business as usual. All my employer has done is put up a bunch of stupid social distancing decals all over the damn store. Those same social distancing guidelines that BTW don't work in a grocery store. Because the whole design of the store is counter to giving people personal space!

To take that a bit further, all the government has done was tell us, citizens, it's up to us to solve the problem. And it's all the more obvious day, by day that the people have chosen herd immunity.
From a legal perspective without a lockdown making people close they lose all protections if they choose to stay closed or stay home. I would love it if there were a third option being presented but there isn’t, they are demanding all or nothing and faced with that false choice I can only support one of the above. Because supporting the other means people who would rather be responsible and use their brains have no choice but to go out and risk death for the worship of money at any cost. Ideologically speaking I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place..

I support people’s personal right to freedom and choice. And both options are suppressing someone’s. So if I have to deal with this paradox... my default ethical position is to take the option which protects the most vulnerable.

As far as employers... I get it. Admin and higher level staff are all still being allowed and actually mandated to work from home. Front line staff was all ordered back as of next Monday in a position where social distancing is literally impossible. The only protection we are being afforded is a “wellness check” before entering clients homes that asks them if they have a fever lmao. I can wear a mask but it might scare my kids so.. if it does it’s on me, but if the family doesn’t like it and I refuse to take it off then I can’t go on unemployment because we reopened. Families don’t have to wear masks or anything else if they don’t want to. We can’t make them. They suggest hand sanitizer and then say “if you can find it”

So I totally get it. Unfortunately.
 
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Lisa

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A misunderstanding then.

You sometimes come across as taking a lascivious delight in the misfortunes of others.
Like 'I'm alright, Jack. But I wouldn't like to be you'.

In this case the 'you' would be boomers like me.
Like it is ok if I get sick and die cos I am a boomer, so should die anyway.
But you don't care because you aren't a boomer and you can have a little schadenfreude moment about my misfortune.

Or that's how it comes across sometimes.
You seem to have a proclivity to misunderstanding me.

I don’t delight in the misfortunes of others..why would I?

See, you mistake what I said and keep running with it like you like to do.
 

Aero

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From a legal perspective without a lockdown making people close they lose all protections if they choose to stay closed or stay home. I would love it if there were a third option being presented but there isn’t, they are demanding all or nothing and faced with that false choice I can only support one of the above. Because supporting the other means people who would rather be responsible and use their brains have no choice but to go out and risk death for the worship of money at any cost. Ideologically speaking I’m stuck between a rock and a hard place..

I support people’s personal right to freedom and choice. And both options are suppressing someone’s. So if I have to deal with this paradox... my default ethical position is to take the option which protects the most vulnerable.

As far as employers... I get it. Admin and higher level staff are all still being allowed and actually mandated to work from home. Front line staff was all ordered back as of next Monday in a position where social distancing is literally impossible. The only protection we are being afforded is a “wellness check” before entering clients homes that asks them if they have a fever lmao. I can wear a mask but it might scare my kids so.. if it does it’s on me, but if the family doesn’t like it and I refuse to take it off then I can’t go on unemployment because we reopened. Families don’t have to wear masks or anything else if they don’t want to. We can’t make them. They suggest hand sanitizer and then say “if you can find it”

So I totally get it. Unfortunately.
I was saving this argument to try to shock the resident Buddhists. But you have walked right into it, so I'm going to deploy it on you to try to prove a point.

If by mere presence alone, I cause a chemical reaction that literally kills another person. That has more to do with the person killed than it does with me. Like a person cannot achieve bad karma, by simply walking outside.

Essentially the ethical mantle you are wearing is putting yourself in a completely unfair position. The burden to save vulnerable populations does not fall on you. Plus the idea of self-quarantine as a magic bullet is wishful-thinking at best. At worst it's merely another government ploy with all sorts of nefarious ends.
 

justjess

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I was saving this argument to try to shock the resident Buddhists. But you have walked right into it, so I'm going to deploy it on you to try to prove a point.

If by mere presence alone, I cause a chemical reaction that literally kills another person. That has more to do with the person killed than it does with me. Like a person cannot achieve bad karma, by simply walking outside.

Essentially the ethical mantle you are wearing is putting yourself in a completely unfair position. The burden to save vulnerable populations does not fall on you. Plus the idea of self-quarantine as a magic bullet is wishful-thinking at best. At worst it's merely another government ploy with all sorts of nefarious ends.
Ahh... you missed a key part of information old friend. I am a member of the vulnerable population. And I work solely with members of vulnerable populations.

My preferred option here? Allow people to assess their own personal risk and act accordingly without economic sanctions for doing so. Unfortunately, no one is even proposing that.
 

Lisa

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Riigghhhtttttt....

Dr. Fauci warns senators that reopening cities or states too fast 'will trigger an outbreak you may not be able to control' as he reveals hope of a successful coronavirus vaccine trial by 'late fall'
 

Lisa

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Body camera video shows police detain Vietnam veteran, 73, at a California waffle restaurant after tense standoff with protesters trying to dine in on Mother's Day
  • Tom Miller Sr, 73, was detained by police in Fresno, California, for allegedly blocking officer's entrance into Waffle Shop eatery
  • Officer was there to help City Code Enforcers to issue a $5,000 fine to the owner for violating shelter-in-place order by allowing patrons to dine inside
  • Fresno has emergency order in place to stop spread of COVID-19 that allows restaurants to only prepare food for carry-out
  • Waffle Shop was fined $1,000 last week for welcoming patrons after a warning
  • Fresno police chief initially said he was 'concerned' about incident, but after reviewing footage sided with the officer, saying he acted lawfully
  • Miller, said to be a diabetic, was released from detention without charges
 

Aero

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Ahh... you missed a key part of information old friend. I am a member of the vulnerable population. And I work solely with members of vulnerable populations.

My best option here? Allow people to assess their own personal risk and act accordingly without economic sanctions for doing so. Unfortunately, no one is even proposing that.
Information wasn't missed, just reduced because it doesn't change certain facts of the issue at hand.

I agree with the sentiment that people should assess their own personal risks. Obviously I care about saving vulnerable people, but I'm not going to put myself in a position where there is no path to victory (so to speak). My argument speaks to the assumptions that everyone is potentially sick and or a bio-terrorist killer.

The average citizen shouldn't have to play doctor or babysitter. We will do what we can within reason, but the justification for lockdowns has gone far beyond reason.
 

rainerann

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“Extracts from olive leaves have been shown to treat infection caused by a large number of viruses as well as bacteria, parasitic protozoans, and fungi. A phytochemical in olive leaf, call oleuropein, is able to stop viruses in their tracks. Oleuropein neutralizes the enzymes that are important for the virus to replicate itself and spread. Oleuropein also has the ability to interfere with the critical amino acid production essential for viruses.”

 

justjess

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Information wasn't missed, just reduced because it doesn't change certain facts of the issue at hand.

I agree with the sentiment that people should assess their own personal risks. Obviously I care about saving vulnerable people, but I'm not going to put myself in a position where there is no path to victory (so to speak). My argument speaks to the assumptions that everyone is potentially sick and or a bio-terrorist killer.

The average citizen shouldn't have to play doctor or babysitter. We will do what we can within reason, but the justification for lockdowns has gone far beyond reason.
Then I wish people would protest for people to have a choice. Not “reopen” vs “lockdown” because both options suck. Reopening isn’t a choice and it isn’t freedom either if your being forced to do so.
 

rainerann

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Masks work. But according to the CDC 9,200 health care professionals have been infected with Covid-19. Also, those numbers are understated because health care workers showing mild symptoms or asymptomatic are less likely to be tested.
i don’t think most facilities have been 100% compliant for any longer than the specific area has had a rule in place to wear masks in the community.

specifically I was told to not wear a mask if I was not taking care of a patient with covid or helping to screen patients. It was clearly stated that I was not supposed to at first.

but truly the whole thing makes my head spin because it should have been very simple to see how long it was lasting in air and say everyone needs to wear a mask because it can stay in the air for several hours. We would need to do this for about three weeks to start clearing the air basically.
 

Aero

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i don’t think most facilities have been 100% compliant for any longer than the specific area has had a rule in place to wear masks in the community.

specifically I was told to not wear a mask if I was not taking care of a patient with covid or helping to screen patients. It was clearly stated that I was not supposed to at first.

but truly the whole thing makes my head spin because it should have been very simple to see how long it was lasting in air and say everyone needs to wear a mask because it can stay in the air for several hours. We would need to do this for about three weeks to start clearing the air basically.
In hindsight, the mask mandate was better than the faulty lockdowns. But it has been just as inconsistent, and the fact that people are using masks designed for surgery or masks that don't meet any medical standard presents another glaring problem.

If the virus sits in the air for hours these homemade masks are useless. I read something along the lines of within minutes the mask is reduced to being ineffective. Because so much completely unfiltered air gets in.
 

rainerann

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In hindsight, the mask mandate was better than the faulty lockdowns. But it has been just as inconsistent, and the fact that people are using masks designed for surgery or masks that don't meet any medical standard presents another glaring problem.

If the virus sits in the air for hours these homemade masks are useless. I read something along the lines of within minutes the mask is reduced to being ineffective. Because so much completely unfiltered air gets in.
It would depend on the size of the particle. For something that is an airborne droplet, I would think a surgical mask is about as effective as a condom is at preventing pregnancy.

so you would reduce your chances of breathing something that remained in the air by about 70%.

you would reduce the chance of breathing it into the air if you were sick or symptomatic by a higher percentage. Maybe 90%.

a 70% reduction in new cases contracted by breathing air that still contains the virus, would mean seeing new cases drop to about 25% of what they were.

increasing the rate of new droplets into the Air at 10% by the group wearing the masks who were positive would further reduce the risk of contracting the virus by breathing it in the air.

it would still take around 6 weeks for these numbers to get to zero, but in theory it wouldn’t require a lockdown like we have. Except for stuff that requires water. Summer is coming and it is getting hot and this whole thing has basically ruined water stuff in the summer.

it would seem that people smarter than me and making more money than me could have reasonably seen something like this sooner.

It has all been going by so fast, but somehow I remembered the articles from March about how long this stays in the air and started connecting dots. I think we could be much further along in this whole process because no matter how you look at it, this idea of herd immunity means more deaths. It doesn’t matter if the percentage is comparable with the flu or not.

there is a direct correlation to the number of positive cases per million to a higher number of deaths per million. So ideally, we would have had a smarter way to isolate this, but like I said in this thread before. We are not really as advanced technologically as we make it seem in a place that talks about ai, transhumanist whatever. there is a connection between this and the way we have responded.

or the way we were dependent on the response of our “leaders”. There are many angles to look at what our true level of technology is at the moment I guess.
 

Lisa

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Wow! :eek:

LA will keep stay-at-home orders through to AUGUST as infections and deaths continue to rise and the county's health director warns a 'dramatic change' is needed before lockdown rules are relaxed
 
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