On the Trinity:

DavidSon

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Want to diminish Jesus and redefine the Gospel? There is a broad, inclusive organisation waiting for you!!! Muslims, Jews and Christians all getting along around the idea of one God, and nobody there making uncomfortable and un-called for references to divisive doctrines like the Trinity!

Who is Tri-Faith?

We imagine and work for a world that celebrates religious difference as an asset in overcoming fear and stereotypes and embracing one another.

If you and military intelligence operatives like Chuck Missler say it's bad, then it might be positive. Anyways a tri-faith organization should include Buddhists- there's 600 milion Buddhists in the world compared to 12 million Jews. :D
 

annabanana

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Trinitarians admit that there is no way to understand the Trinity and it's impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain.

The disgusting Christians at Christianity.com says this...

All Christians believe the doctrine of the Trinity. If you do not believe this—that is, if you have come to a settled conclusion that the doctrine of the Trinity is not true—you are not a Christian at all. You are in fact a heretic. Those words may sound harsh, but they represent the judgment of ...

This is the doctrine in a nutshell...

Basic Definition: Christians worship one God who eternally exists in three persons, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, all of whom are fully God, all of whom are equal. Jesus is both God the Father and the holy spirit. The holy spirit is both God and Jesus. God is both the holy spirit and Jesus. Etc. The three are all knowing, all powerful, and everywhere. (Omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent)

Then, they illogically go on to say Jesus is not God, Jesus is not the holy spirit, the holy spirit is not Jesus, the holy spirit is not God, etc. I'm not kidding, as you will see in the author's page in the link below


It wasn't until 451, at the Council of Chalcedon that, with the approval of the Pope, the Nicene/Constantinople Creed was set as authoritative. Debate on the matter was no longer tolerated; to speak out against the Trinity was now considered blasphemy, and such earned stiff sentences that ranged from mutilation to death. Christians now turned on Christians, maiming and slaughtering thousands because of a difference of opinion....and that's the way the devil wanted it!
Trinity is right up there with pre-trib with fabricated and contradictory teachings. Trinity is a Catholic doctrine devised in the 4th century. Yet Protestants who have accepted it have nothing good to say about Catholicism and even call Rome the whore of Babylon and a cult.

I've studied the doctrine enough and would put myself up to a debate with anyone on the subject of Trinity. The problem with blogs and forums is that my replies get removed and I get banned for being non-Trinitarian. Once they see they've been debunked, they send me on my way along with my replies. I have made my mind up on the Trinity doctrine.
I believe Jesus when he said the Father is greater. I believe him when he said he doesn't know the day or hour of his return. I believe him when he says he can do nothing on his own. I also believe him when he said blasphemy against him will be forgiven but blasphemy against the holy spirit will not. If they were the same person blasphemy against one would be blasphemy against the other. Other issues I have with Trinity is IF the holy spirit is a separate person "why doesn't the holy spirit have a name, and why isn't he found in or around the Throne of God?"

Here's a list of scriptures Trinitarians use to support the doctrine.
John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
That verse simply states that Jesus existed before Abraham and nothing else.


Romans 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
It's absurd to claim a co-equal trinity is implied and several trinitarians do not believe this verse identifies Jesus is God.

The issue here is punctuation. Paul did not use modern types of punctuation. It was added by Trinitarian translators wherever they wanted to prop up their already preconceived belief of the Trinity. The verse can be read like this...

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

That's another verse that's completely distorted by Trinitarians. The subject of the verse is, "him that is true." So let me clarify this for you.

The word 'even'..."EVEN in his Son Jesus Christ" is NOT in the original text. It was added by the KJV translators. The word IN..."even IN his Son Jesus Christ" is the word BY AND WITH. It's worded like this in the interlinear and the way it should be understood...


We know the Son of God is come and has given us an understanding, that we may know the true one, (God the Father) and we are in him that is the true one, (God the Father) BY his son Jesus Christ.

What is being said here is that for us to be in “him that is true” we have to go through the Son, “him that is true” is the father, and the only way to be in the Father is through the son.

Jesus says the same thing in John 17:3...

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, AND Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
This is biggest trinitarian cop-out there is..
That is because Jesus Christ is both fully God and fully man at the same time.

They answer questions by quoting a tenet of the Trinity doctrine. If Jesus is BOTH fully ‘God and fully man AT THE SAME TIME’, he would know the day and hour of his return. Either he knew, or he forgot, or he didn’t know!
Then they use Colossians 2:9 says: “For in him the whole fullness of deity DWELLS bodily.”

The word ‘dwells’ is in present tense, so Paul is referring to the resurrected Christ. The KJV uses the word ‘Godhead’ which is better translated ‘deity or divinity’ (or Godship) and it’s in the singular. That doesn’t support a triunity of beings. The present tense means Paul is speaking of the risen Christ. i.e. the spirit Christ received in the resurrection. This does NOT refer to deity of his earthly body. Neither does the word ‘deity’ infer a trinity or that Jesus is fully God the Father.
Colossians 2:9 means the abundance of divinity dwells in Christ resurrected heavenly body. God has given to Jesus all the plentitude and abundance of godship and mightiness so that he “is the head of all principality and power.” This in no way implies a Trinity.
(KJV)
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:”

Triitarians say Jesus is omniscient like God is in John 16:30.
John 16:30
“Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.”
The word ‘things’ is not in the original text, and the interlinear words it like this…
“We perceive that you perceive all.” The context is that his disciples finally saw and understood that Jesus came forth from the Father. They no longer doubted Jesus came from God and believed in his divine mission. By no means does this imply that Jesus is omniscient or that he’s God the Father. Jesus does NOT know everything God the Father knows.

We should also take into account Paul’s usage of the word ‘pas’ or ALL. ‘Pas’ is often used in a limited sense. It’s actually the word ‘individually.’ When it is used without the article, which is the case here, it means Jesus knows all types and a variety of things.” Note: “We are sure” and “knowest” are the same Greek word eidō.
It could be interpreted like this,

“Now we see (are convinced) that you perceive all types of things and no man needs to ask if we believe that you came from God.”
They quote Luke 2:52 in an attempt to prove Jesus is omniscient.
“And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.”
That verse disproves the Trinity doctrine! If Jesus is fully God, there’s no need for him “TO INCREASE” in wisdom and stature! Trinitarians refuse to see their illogical contradictions.
The word ‘favor’ is the word GRACE. God’s good pleasure was upon Christ. If Christ was “fully God” there would be no need for him to “fully develop.” The most illogical presumption of Trinitarians is that Jesus is “fully God and fully man”.
One Trinitarian link makes these contradictory, illogical, and incoherent statements…
“But the Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit and the Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit.”
…”that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God.”
“With respect to his divine nature he knows all things and with respect to his human nature he does not know all things. Both of these things are true at the same time with respect to his distinct natures.”
As well as this….
“Jesus can say that the Father is greater than him in John 14:28 because he is fully human as we are and deity is greater than humanity.”
Those statement don’t confront or answer the questions non-trinitarians asked. Too often the trinitarian cop-out response is, “both of these things are true at the same time with respect to his distinct natures.” If that were true, then Jesus would know the day or hour of his return!
Jesus said, “The Father is Greater.” Either He IS or He ISN’T! Jesus said the Father IS greater. I believe Jesus!
Trinitarian's say....
“With respect to his divine nature, he is equal with God (Heb 1:2-3)”
KJV…

“But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.”
That would be a fabrication of the Trinitarian KJV interpreters of the passage which has a host of mistakes. Look at the verse…
Hebrews 1:2-3 comes from Psalm 45:6 and is completely misrepresented in the KJV of Hebrews 1:8.
Psalm 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of uprightness;
The Jewish Publication Society reads it like this from the Septuagint…
“Thy throne given of God is for ever and ever; a sceptre of equity is the scepter of thy kingdom.”
(which may be a reference to Solomon)
NOTE: In Hebrews 1:8, the words, “He saith” is an addition of the Trinitarian KJV translators.
In the interlinear it worded like this…

Yet toward the Son the Throne of you God is forever a rod of rigteousness of your kingdom.
Or like this…
Hebrews 1:8….

“But with regard to the son, the Throne of God is forever and ever a scepter of his righteousness.
That verse does not say Jesus is God NOR does it imply a Trinity whatsoever.
Jesus is never called “God the Son, and he is never called Almighty God.” 1 Corinthians 8 shows a distinction between God the Father and Jesus Christ the Lord. They are NOT the same person or equal in any way….

For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. 1 Corinthians 8:5,6.
Trinitarians quote Philippians 2:6-7 and John 1:1-3, 14.
QUOTE VERSE


Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Trinitarians can’t agree on the interpretation of that word or the passage. Most trinitarians admit the word "morphē" describes the EXTERNAL appearance or GLORY of Christ. NOT his internal attributes!

John 1:1-3, 14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
V. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

There are 70 ways to interpret John 1:1-3. The word "WORD" is 'saying.' Vines says, "a word or saying," also means, "an account which one gives by word of mouth.
It's more logical to interpret the word "WORD" as the speech of God, NOT JESUS!
According to Thayer's the word WITH means, "to the advantage of," toward, or "pertaining to" or "nearness at."
...and the word was with God.

Better understood like it is in the interlinear, "and God was the spoken word."
In the beginning was God's spoken Word, and the spoken word was to God's advantage, and God was the spoken word. V. 14 And the spoken word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Trinitarian's also use Joel 2:32 and Romans 10:13: to say Paul applies the divine name YHWH.
Romans 10:13 doesn’t use the word Yahweh. The word ‘Lord’ in Roman’s 10:13 is the word “kyrios” and it is NOT the Greek equivalent to Yahweh! To say such a thing is a complete Trinitarian fabrication. The context in Romans 10:13 is not Jesus but God the Father anyway. The word Lord/ kyrios is used 748 times in the NT and it implies a variety of ‘masters’. Like here in Mathew 10:24-25,


“The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord/kyrios. It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord/kyrios.”

Jesus is called “god” in the bible. The KJV errantly capitalizes it. But, so is Satan, angels, Moses, people, the spiritual leaders of Israel, and pagan deities.

The true Jesus is isn’t fully God. He said so himself! He also said,

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Jesus also said,

“I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.”

“Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.”


Trinitarians also use John 5:18-19 to say Jesus is equal to God, but a simple lok at the text shows different.
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

The Jews sought to kill Jesus because he said God was his Father. Their presumption was by saying that their presecption was that Jesus was equating himself with God. But look at Jesus' reply, he rebukes them for saying such a thing...


Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Verses that debunk the trinity that show the doctrine is a major contradiction...

John 20:17 “I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God."

John 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

There is no trinity for many simple reasons. The 'Holy Spirit' as described by Trinitarians is not found in or around the throne of God in Revelation 1:4, 3:1, 4:5, and 5:6 .

Revelation 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Revelation 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Revelation 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.


Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Where are you getting your information? Are you on this site just to spread discord? The word trinity appears NO WHERE in the Bible. Not all Christians believe in the trinity.
 

annabanana

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The Trinity is pretty evident throughout the Bible :

"Yet I will have mercy on the house of Judah, Will save them by the Lord their God, And will not save them by bow, Nor by sword or battle, By horses or horsemen."
Hosea 1:7

"Blessed is the Lord God of Israel, For He has visited and redeemed His people, And has raised up a horn of salvation for us In the house of His servant David, As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets, Who have been since the world began, That we should be saved from our enemies And from the hand of all who hate us"
Luke 1:68‭-‬71

You love righteousness and hate wickedness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.
Psalms 45:7

The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed; And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”
Luke 4:18‭, ‬21


He sent His word and healed them, And delivered them from their destructions. Oh, that men would give thanks to the Lord for His goodness, And for His wonderful works to the children of men!
Psalms 107:20‭-‬21

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:1‭-‬2‭, ‬14

"I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him. Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, Which shall not pass away, And His kingdom the one Which shall not be destroyed."
Daniel 7:13‭-‬14

And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son. Hear Him!”
Luke 9:35

Jesus said, "I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven."
Mark 14:62

Return, we beseech You, O God of hosts; Look down from heaven and see, And visit this vine Let Your hand be upon the man of Your right hand, Upon the son of man whom You made strong for Yourself.
Psalms 80:14‭, ‬17

I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
John 15:5


For they did not gain possession of the land by their own sword, Nor did their own arm save them; But it was Your right hand, Your arm, and the light of Your countenance, Because You favored them.
Psalms 44:3


"Now after six days Jesus took Peter, James, and John his brother, led them up on a high mountain by themselves; and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light."
Matthew 17:1‭-‬2

Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
John 14:9

Then the Lord delivered to me two tablets of stone written with the finger of God, and on them were all the words which the Lord had spoken to you on the mountain from the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly."
Deuteronomy 9:10

"But if I cast out demons with the finger of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you."
Luke 11:20

And i'm not even quoting a half of the verses that supports Trinity since there is much more deeper examples than that.
HeAr o Israel the Lord our God is ONE Lord.
The Trinitarian doctrine originated out of the council of Nicea around 300 to 325 AD
 

Red Sky at Morning

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If you and military intelligence operatives like Chuck Missler say it's bad, then it might be positive. Anyways a tri-faith organization should include Buddhists- there's 600 milion Buddhists in the world compared to 12 million Jews. :D
I didn’t realise that Buddhists traced back to Abraham? (that’s what “tri-faith” means - the three Abrahamic faiths)
 

A Freeman

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There is unquestionably no "trinity", i.e. any 3=1 deity, which is a pagan god that has absolutely nothing to do with THE ONE TRUE GOD (the "I AM", our Heavenly Father and Creator, Allah, The Most High God) as it clearly states repeatedly throughout the Old Covenant, New Covenant and Koran. Christ never claimed to be anything other than the SON OF GOD and God's SERVANT., unable to do anything without God's Help.

Unfortunately the so-called Jews worship their Talmud, which is expressly prohibited in the Torah, and don't believe anything that came after the Torah, while the so-called Christians pay homage to their pagan 3=1 deity, making a mockery of Christ's True Teachings which were all about worship Father (God) and DOING His Will, and the so-called Moslems worship Mohammad and their fabricated Hadith, rejecting everything that came before the Koran, even though the Koran instructs them to do the exact opposite.


Excerpt from CHAPTER 11 Satan’s use of religions to divide; deceive; conquer and rule.

of The Way home or face The Fire...

11:79 Jesus and Mohammed are friends, so why aren’t the Christians and the Moslems friends?
11:80 Mohammed and Abraham are friends, so why aren’t the Moslems and the Jews friends?
11:81 Jesus and Abraham, are also friends, so why doesn’t everyone stop being so stupid; read all three parts of The Book; become friends, and help each other to earn the right to go home, as ALL the Prophets have said?
11:82 In the 6th century A.D., when Mohammed Mustafa was born, Mecca was an evil place. Mohammed was driven-out of it, and fled to Medina.
11:83 Medina was not as evil as Mecca, and the people of Medina were converted, to, “doing the Will of God” - islam.
11:84 The evil people of Mecca refused to accept the Koran, and Mohammed, so Mohammed assembled an army, to attack and conquer it, but he failed, because it was not God’s Will. If it had been God’s Will, Mohammed would have easily defeated the Meccans, because God says so, in the Koran (Sura 8:65), and God’s Word is always superior, to that of His apostles, on every subject and situation.
11:85 The Meccans, at that time, made (like now) a great amount of money, from pilgrims coming to worship idols and false gods, at Mecca, and it was a very big and thriving “BUSINESS”, that they did not want to give up, because it was their major source of income. That is why they rejected Mohammed, the Koran, and the One TRUE God, because it would have ruined their very lucrative BUSINESS, and they preferred to continue to serve their god - money.
11:86 Being unable to defeat the Meccans, because it was not the Will of God (God is Invincible), some of Mohammed’s followers, being afraid, persuaded him to make a “deal” with the Meccans. The “deal” was, that they would allow Mohammed into Mecca, only IF he made Mecca into the centre of the new “religion”, so that they could continue to make lots of money, from pilgrims visiting the city, and nothing would change, except the name of the religion, and, thereby, the Meccans could continue to serve their god - money.
11:87 Previously, Mohammed had taught his followers to face Jerusalem, and God’s “Holy of Holies”, on Mt. MORIAH, which is where Abraham went, to sacrifice Isaac, and proved that he loved God, above everything on Earth, and, by doing this, became the first imam (example), to ALL of his children; showing them, what they too must also be willing to do, before they too (his children) can become “friends of God” (Sura 2:124).
11:88 Once having made the bargain, the MECCANS then wrote the Hadith, to make Mecca the new centre, and keep their “business” going. They gave their black rock the name Ka’ba, which means holy of holies, or house of God, whereas, God, Himself, says that there is only ONE place on Earth that is THE “Holy of Holies”, and that is on Mt. MORIAH, in Jerusalem, where Abraham went to sacrifice Isaac (Genesis 22:1-2), and it is referred to, in the Koran, as Abraham’s Station (Sura 2:125 & 3:97). The Meccans, in their Hadith; to further deceive the world, away from Mt. Moriah, and to Mecca; have written that Abraham took Ishmael, not Isaac, to their Ka’ba in Mecca, to sacrifice him. Whereas, God Himself says, in His Koran, that Abraham took Isaac, NOT Ishmael, to what was to become the “Holy of Holies” (Ka’ba in Arabic), Abraham’s Station, in the City of Peace - JeruSALEM (Sura 37:101, 112 - “the good news of Isaac” & Sura 37:109 - Peace-SALEM to Abraham, where the City of Peace - Jeru-SALEM was later to be built - Sura 2:126). The beginning of Peace is when you follow Abraham’s example. SALEM means PEACE.
11:89 God has only EVER given permission for ONE house to be built, for Him, on Earth, and that is over Abraham’s Station – the “Holy of Holies”, the HOLIEST place on Earth, which is where Abraham “believed ONLY God”, and proved his love for God, by offering to sacrifice his son Isaac there - Mt. MORIAH - the site of the “House of the Lord”, in Jerusalem. The word Jerusalem means “found peace”, and “a place of safety” (Sura 2:125).
11:90 All of the references in the Koran, to the “Holy of Holies” (Ka’ba), refer to Mt. MORIAH in Jerusalem, and not to Mecca, as do also the references to His City of Peace (Sura 2:126 Jeru-Salem), where the “House of God”, or Temple, was built by king Solomon (Sura 4:163), over Abraham’s Station, where he offered Isaac (not Ishmael) to God (Sura 38:45-48).
11:91 The Meccans, in order to keep the deception going, had to discredit the Bible, to stop people from reading it, so that they would never find the truth, and turn away from Mecca, back to Jerusalem, as God intended. The Meccans, in writing the Hadith and discrediting the Bible, have made it IMPOSSIBLE, for anyone reading the Hadith, to be able to understand the Koran, and God’s TRUTH. They’ve told the Moslem world that the true Bible no longer exists, which is not only a LIE (evil - from the Devil), but totally illogical too. They would have the world believe their lie, that God; Whom they claim to worship; Who is ALL-powerful; has commanded them to read the Bible (Sura 6:152-157); fulfill His COVENANT (Sura 6:152 &16:91), which is written ONLY in the Bible and nowhere else, and, even though He is ALL-powerful; has left the world without the TRUE Bible. They’d have us believe their lie, that an ALL-powerful God, has broken His word, and allowed puny man to destroy His Bible Truth*. How stupid can people be?
11:92 The king James Authorized Version of the Bible is the second most accurate translation in the world, since 2000 A.D. when The King of kings’ Bible was completed, and which is now the most accurate.
11:93 The Hadith was written after Mohammed’s (peace be upon him) death, and it CAUSED the splitting up of Muslims, into different sects, in opposition to the meaning of the Koran, which is all about the “Gospel of Unity” (Sura 42:13-17), the keeping of God’s COVENANT (Sura 5:8 & 16:91), which is written in the Torah, in the Bible, and becoming a universal-brotherhood of believers. So the Meccans made the Teachings of God of no-effect, by the teaching of their Hadith - “Traditions of the fathers”. How blind can people be?
11:94 The Hadith has become the Talmud of the Muslims, and was condemned by God, in the Koran (Sura 43:21-23 & 43:3), which says that God has gone to all the trouble of writing the Koran, so that YOU can understand it, yourself, IF you read it and DO what it says; which is, to read the Bible (Sura 6:154-156) as well as the Koran, and to pray in PRIVATE (Sura 7:55), which is exactly what Christ said, in Matt. 6:6, whereupon, God will ANSWER YOU, and teach YOU what He wants you to do - God’s Will. IF you don’t do, what God has told you to do, if you want Him to answer you, He will NOT answer YOU. EVERY copy, and the originals, of the Talmud; Hadith and all man-made law-books, must be pulped, and re-cycled as Bibles/Korans. Then, for the first time in their existence, they’ll have done some good.
11:95 In the Koran, God has told you to go on the “Pilgrimage”, if you’re a TRUE believer, and can afford to. God says you must visit Abraham’s Station (Sura 3:97), Mt. Moriah, in Jerusalem, NOT Mecca. Abraham did NOT offer Isaac (or Ishmael) at the Ka’ba in Mecca (Gen. 22:1-2), but Moriah in Jerusalem, because God says so, in The Book He’s told YOU to read, and that’s The Bible – Sura 6:154-156.
11:96 So the Meccans deceived ALL Muslims, and prevented the uniting of the Books (Bible & Koran), and the fulfillment of Mohammed’s mission for God, which was to unite ALL the TRUE believers, into keeping God’s COVENANT (Sura 16:91), and being His demonstration-people, to the rest of the World, of how wonderful it is to live under God’s Laws, and Sovereignty, as one universal brotherhood, all facing and remembering Mt. MORIAH, as it says in the Koran and in the Bible - Sura 2:144 & 1 kings 8:29-30.
11:97 The Christians are just as bad as the Jews and Muslims, and started a religion abusing Christ’s name, and teaching the opposite of what Christ actually said. That is why God sent the Koran to Mohammed Mustafa, to bring people back to the TRUE faith and teachings, which are, to keep The COVENANT in The Torah, and DO God’s Will - islam, which is exactly what Christ actually did say, in the New Testament/Covenant.
11:98 This is reconfirmed by God in the Koran (Sura 43:61), which makes it doubly important and certain.
11:99 It is the duty of ALL believers, to free yourselves from ALL of these evil man-made teachings; unite the 3 Books of God – Old Testament, New Testament and Koran - and yourselves as One brotherhood, ALL keeping The COVENANT of God, written in The Torah (Pentateuch), in the Old Testament, and following Abraham’s example, in believing ONLY God, and loving God, more than everything on Earth, and DOING His Will.

Israelite (Hebrew) = Those who DO God’s Will all of which mean
Christian (Greek) = Those who DO God’s Will “children of God.”
Islamic (Arabic) = Those who DO God’s Will (by adoption)

11:100 Therefore, they ALL mean EXACTLY the same, and do NOT refer to ANY organized-religion. They refer to the “children of God”, i.e. those who keep the COMMANDMENTS and also DO God’s Will.
11:101 Many of you say that you’re ALL “children of God”, but you’re NOT all “children of God”. ONLY those who keep the COMMANDMENTS, and also DO God’s Will, are “children of God”, and the rest of you are NOT, no-matter what YOU call yourselves. You are the children of whom you serve. Those who DO God’s Will are His children, and those who continue to do Satan’s will remain his children.
11:102 Billions of you “say” that you are Israelites, Christians and Moslems (Islamic), but you are NOT, because, even if you are keeping the COMMANDMENTS, you are NOT DOING God’s Will. You are just paying lip-service, to your own particular religion.
11:103 If you REALLY were “children of God”, keeping His COMMANDMENTS, COVENANT and DOING His Will, you would ALL be reading the Torah, New Testament and Koran and would be one single brotherhood, and one single world-wide nation, with NO divisions, either religious; national; political; language or colour. Your neighbour, whom you MUST love as your self, is not just the man next door, but also the man on the far side of the planet, and EVERYONE in between.

All of the religions belong to Satan.
All religions MUST be destroyed.​

11:104 There will NEVER be peace on Earth, until ALL of the organized-religions have gone, and people keep the COMMANDMENTS; The COVENANT, and DO God’s Will, and return to DIRECT spirit-converse with their God.

*God guaranteed in the Koran (Sura 32:23), that the True Bible would reach you, and He commanded the reader, NOT to be in doubt about it.

Sura 32:23. We did indeed aforetime give the Book (Torah) to Moses: be then NOT IN DOUBT of its (The Torah) reaching (THEE): and We made it a Guide to the Children of Israel.

____________________________________​

The New Covenant is known as the “New Song”, and is the “Song of Moses” (Deut. 31:19-30), harmonized with the “Song of the Lamb” (Rev. 15:3), and Christ says that there are very few that can learn to sing it - keep it (Rev. 14:3)(Isaiah 42:10 & Ps. 98:1), and only those who do, will survive (Rev. 14:3)(Sura 6:152-157 & 33:23).

If you want to “Live”, in God’s Kingdom, YOU have to keep The Covenant and help to set it up, here on Earth, with His Laws; Economic System; etc.; with Him as YOUR King and serve ONLY Him, persuading others to do the same, by becoming God’s demonstration-people to the world.


Those who don’t will ALL die.​
 

Red Sky at Morning

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There are those who think “Protestant” Christians and “Born Again” types are just being mean spirited when they say that Catholicism is off, after all, the Pope prays for the world*


*To Mary!!!
 

A Freeman

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Revelation 17

17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come here; I will show unto thee the Judgment of the great "Whore" [“Jezebel” from Rev. 2:20-23] that sitteth upon many "waters": [the people of the Earth, please see verse 17]:

17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. [by believing in her man-made doctrines like “holy” communion – True Holy Communion is Communication/Union with our Creator, NOT a silly ritual with wafers and wine (please see 1 Cor. 11:20-30) and engaging in her Babylonian/Roman Market System and its supporting legal system based upon Roman “law”].

17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman [that great city (Rome), please see verse 18] sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy [“Holy” Father (2 Thess. 2:4), Vicarius Dei Filii (there is NO substitute for Christ – 1 Tim. 2:5), priests calling themselves “Father” (Matt. 23:9) and supposedly forgiving people’s sins when they have absolutely NO authority to do so (Mark 2:7, 10, Luke 5:21, 24), etc.], having seven heads [seven mountains/hills, verse 9] and ten horns [kingdoms].

17:4 And the woman was arrayed in PURPLE [bishops] and SCARLET [cardinals] colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: [the RCC is the wealthiest business empire on the planet; owning more real estate, stock, gold, precious metals, artifacts and worldly treasures than ANY other organization; controlling the vast resources of the world’s financial institutions, the Babylonian/Roman Market System and its supporting legal system based upon Roman “law”, hoarding that wealth whilst millions starve to death in complete contradiction to Christ’s TRUE Teachings – Matt. 6:24, Mark 12:31.]:

17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY (2 Thess. 2:7), BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER [the “mother” church] OF HARLOTS [her daughters/offspring—ALL of the protestant denominations – 2 Cor. 11:13-15] AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH [the Romans are the direct descendants of the Babylonians, and the ONLY race of people to ever destroy Solomon’s temple (Sura 17:7). They destroyed the Temple the first time as the Babylonians in approximately 588 BC and then again as the Romans in 70 AD. Part of the Roman Empire lives on today as the RCC (the ROMAN Catholic Church, with the ), just as the pagan Babylonian trinity and sun-worshipping practices do (on “Sun”-days)].

Protestant "Christians' can claim separation from the "mother church" all they want, but their adoption of the pagan, heathen practices of Rome - including their pagan 3=1 deity - leave absolutely no doubt that they are, in fact, the harlot daughters of the RCC, who gave birth to them all. And we have that from Christ, in His Revelation to John, as cited above.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Protestant "Christians' can claim separation from the "mother church" all they want, but their adoption of the pagan, heathen practices of Rome - including their pagan 3=1 deity - leave absolutely no doubt that they are, in fact, the harlot daughters of the RCC, who gave birth to them all. And we have that from Christ, in His Revelation to John, as cited above.
You do know that the same straw man could be used to say “Catholics believe in the Virgin Birth, therefore it’s must be untrue”...

Just sayin’
 

A Freeman

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You do know that the same straw man could be used to say “Catholics believe in the Virgin Birth, therefore it’s must be untrue”...

Just sayin’
What was presented above from Revelation 17 wasn't a strawman argument; it was simply citing the fact that Christ describes the protestant daughters of the great whore (RCC) as harlots themselves, with the totally unscriptural "trinity" being their central, shared dogma.

“Our opponents sometimes claim that no belief should be held dogmatically which
is not explicitly stated in scripture ... But the Protestant Churches have
themselves accepted such dogmas, AS THE TRINITY, for which there is no such
precise authority in the Gospels
,” — (Assumption of Mary, Life magazine, Oct 30,
1950, p. 51)

Source: http://www.trinitytruth.org/the-trinity-doctrine-exposed.html#Part15

From the Athanasian Creed: "Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is
necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep
whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the
catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity...

...This is the catholic faith
; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he
cannot be saved."

"The doctrine of the Trinity is the central Catholic Dogma, that Catholics are
obliged to believe.

“He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.”
-the Athanasian Creed"

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed

This doesn't mean all Christians have fallen for the pagan trinity doctrine, only that every protestant based denomination has inherited some (if not many) of its mistaken, unscriptural beliefs from the RCC. But what's been shared above, including what it says in Revelation 17:5, proves that BOTH the Catholics AND the Protestants have it wrong.

The virgin birth on the other hand IS in the Bible AND the Koran (e.g. Sura 3:47), and is described in detail, requiring no one to believe any religious dogma of any kind. So it's really you who are attempting to create a strawman argument rather than simply think (ask Father, Who IS The One True God, as Christ teaches) to show you the truth.

The scriptural evidence against the pagan trinity is so overwhelming (with hundreds of verses that rule out any possibility of a 3=1 deity) it's difficult to understand how anyone can claim to have read the Bible and still attempt to defend it.
 
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Belief in the trinity doesnt get you in, I dont believe the trinity is a requirement for salvation but...if you're casting out demons in his name, healing in his name...im pretty sure you can worship in his name...what requires worship? God.

Besides the catholic trilogy is pretty much jesus, father, mary. Have you read catholic doctrine on Mary? they pray to her more than Jesus.
 

Kung Fu

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If any Christian on here can provide an early church father, prior to the meeting of the Romans, spouting nonsense of the Trinity and how they're three and equal I would be grateful. ALL I NEED IS JUST ONE.
 

Kung Fu

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Belief in the trinity doesnt get you in, I dont believe the trinity is a requirement for salvation but...if you're casting out demons in his name, healing in his name...im pretty sure you can worship in his name...what requires worship? God.

Besides the catholic trilogy is pretty much jesus, father, mary. Have you read catholic doctrine on Mary? they pray to her more than Jesus.
Most Christians would disagree with you. What do you believe is the only requirement for a Christian to get into Heaven?
 

Lisa

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Belief in the trinity doesnt get you in, I dont believe the trinity is a requirement for salvation but...if you're casting out demons in his name, healing in his name...im pretty sure you can worship in his name...what requires worship? God.
Or not..
Matthew‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
‭‭


Besides the catholic trilogy is pretty much jesus, father, mary. Have you read catholic doctrine on Mary? they pray to her more than Jesus.
The prayers that mean nothing?
Matthew‬ ‭6:7‬ ‭
And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.
‭‭
 

Kung Fu

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Or not..
Matthew‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
This verse is talking about people like you lol.
 
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