Sufi Muslims And Gnosis

[AspiringSoul]

@manama Leave this guy to himself. It is not worth arguing about with him because the more he does, the further into shirk he goes. He thrives on it too unfortunately - very sad for him. Even the Christians here can see that his sect is far from what the majority of Muslims here follow - Quran and Sunnah. Walhamdulillah.

you're calling me a kafir
THIS is exactly why the prophet SAW wrote off you salafist morons

 

[AspiringSoul]

me: if it contains no shirk or evil, it is good
you: leave this guy to his shirk


salafism at it's finest.

 

[manama]

i just told you that White for me, consists of what is halal and black=shirk/evil etc
so if someone contacts jinns
then it is black magic, not white magic

There are bunch of different types of magick. White, black, grey, red. Its NOT about what YOU think. Its about what IT IS.
You can keep your "thoughts" to yourself, your thoughts aren't part of the religion.
If you actually knew what magick was, you'd know there is no way to do it in the halal way.

there's no rule which specifically says it MUST be recited from the Quran

There are hadith tho

for example, i could have my own personal words that contain no shirk/evil and are not from the Quran...and if they are used for good
then perfectly halal.

Thats kind of really pathetic. If you go ahead and use your own words when Muwwadatain were revealed for a reason.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Is that even true? I thought Sufis were a Muslim minority of a few million adherents.

nope, the largest group are the regular sunnis who adhere to sufi islam.
the only exceptions are the middle east which is basically wahabi/salafist or shia territory.

 

[manama]

@manama Leave this guy to himself. It is not worth arguing about with him because the more he does, the further into shirk he goes. He thrives on it too unfortunately - very sad for him. Even the Christians here can see that his sect is far from what the majority of Muslims here follow - Quran and Sunnah. Walhamdulillah.

True,

you're calling me a kafir
THIS is exactly why the prophet SAW wrote off you salafist morons

Wow thats really low.

 

[manama]

anyone who claims it is bidah because "the prophet SAW didn't do it" is a dangerous restrictive islam who will damage this religion.

Its because he was the one who taught this religion and upon him it was completed and perfected. You add more stuff into it, thats innovation.

 

[AspiringSoul]

There are bunch of different types of magick. White, black, grey, red. Its NOT about what YOU think. Its about what IT IS.
You can keep your "thoughts" to yourself, your thoughts aren't part of the religion.
If you actually knew what magick was, you'd know there is no way to do it in the halal way.


There are hadith tho

Thats kind of really pathetic. If you go ahead and use your own words when Muwwadatain were revealed for a reason.

if it contains no shirk and no evil
it is halal
and ruqyah=magic

everything you say is irrelevant beyond this.

the prophet SAW also allowed a form of divination (which you already know by now).

divination=magic too.

 

[manama]

if it contains no shirk and no evil
it is halal
and ruqyah=magic

everything you say is irrelevant beyond this.

the prophet SAW also allowed a form of divination (which you already know by now).

divination=magic too.

its like beating a dead horse.

 

[manama]

When a person who was heavily into divination and sorcery tells you its wrong. When someone who has been deep into magick tells you its bad. But nah continue saying "no its not"

 

[grateful servant]

its like beating a dead horse.

بالضبط

 

[Faker He-Man]

LOL
Religious dogma aside, there is a better, more accurate word for "white magick" or "right-hand magick" as opposed to left-hand (self-serving). That word is simply "healing", nothing more. Negative assumptions surrounding the word "magic" can be a roadblock for many. Besides, there is no so-called "magic", only knowledge.

 

[manama]

LOL
Religious dogma aside, there is a better, more accurate word for "white magick" or "right-hand magick" as opposed to left-hand (self-serving). That word is simply "healing", nothing more. Negative assumptions surrounding the word "magic" can be a roadblock for many. Besides, there is no so-called "magic", only knowledge.

healing that requires you to worship different gods and goddesses or nature itself? sure

 

[manama]

And they followed [instead] what the devils had recited during the reign of Solomon. It was not Solomon who disbelieved, but the devils disbelieved, teaching people magic and that which was revealed to the two angels at Babylon, Harut and Marut. But the two angels do not teach anyone unless they say, "We are a trial, so do not disbelieve [by practicing magic]." And [yet] they learn from them that by which they cause separation between a man and his wife. But they do not harm anyone through it except by permission of Allah . And the people learn what harms them and does not benefit them. But the Children of Israel certainly knew that whoever purchased the magic would not have in the Hereafter any share. And wretched is that for which they sold themselves, if they only knew. - Surah Baqarah, verse 102

 

[Lady]

LOL
Religious dogma aside, there is a better, more accurate word for "white magick" or "right-hand magick" as opposed to left-hand (self-serving). That word is simply "healing", nothing more. Negative assumptions surrounding the word "magic" can be a roadblock for many. Besides, there is no so-called "magic", only knowledge.

As in "Gnosis?" I have heard it before...
The bible also condemns this knowledge.

 

[AspiringSoul]

its like beating a dead horse.

basically you just make up this idea that you have a decent argument but have absolutely nothing other than ignorance

you're accusing me of all sorts even though im very honest about my approach

When a person who was heavily into divination and sorcery tells you its wrong. When someone who has been deep into magick tells you its bad. But nah continue saying "no its not"

me: there is a form of divination that's mentioned in the hadith that's allowed

(6) This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Mu'awiya b. Hakam as-Sulami through another chain of transmitters. The hadith transmitted on the authority of Yahya b. Abu Kathir (there is an addition of these words): I said: Among us there are men who draw lines and thus make divination. What about this? Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: There was a Prophet who drew lines, so whose lines agree with his line for him it is allowable. (Book #026, Hadith #5534)

concerning SORCERY
me: ruqya=magic
if it contains no shirk or evil
it is allowed

so how is it despite me proving to you several times that all types of ruqyah that contains no shirk/evil is encouraged...and divination as above is allowed...and yet you still come here making a baffoon out of yourself

salafism is the death of islam.

 

[AspiringSoul]

As in "Gnosis?" I have heard it before...
The bible also condemns this knowledge.

where is gnosis condemned in the bible?
flipping heck
Jesus openly spoke of the Single Eye which ive quoted many times
that IS gnosis
just because you don't know what gnosis is doesn't mean you can get away with creating your own rules as you go along.

 

[AspiringSoul]

When a person who was heavily into divination and sorcery tells you its wrong. When someone who has been deep into magick tells you its bad. But nah continue saying "no its not"

]

manama
you've experienced some sihr and think you have knowledge of magic?
you remember my original pm to you here?
ive experienced a lot more of that side but that's irrelevant to the core theology of islam.
Islam is a beautiful religion that gives us a lot of freedom and is open minded
you people are restricting islam and labelling things out of ignorance

how can you talk about divination in a negative context when you already read the hadith I quoted?
here it is again
I said: Among us there are men who draw lines and thus make divination. What about this? Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: There was a Prophet who drew lines, so whose lines agree with his line for him it is allowable. (Book #026, Hadith #5534)

The prophet SAW was not restrictive like you
what is shirk and evil is basically quite clear
so i told you...as an example..that summoning jinns to help you...is actually an evil method.

so why are you trying to attack my approach when you can see it's based on the prophetic advice and also that im careful about what's 'evil'?
think about it

the disagreements we have here are due to you attempting to label things that are halal, as haram and then having trouble covering your tracks when you see the hadith i quote.
you're making up your own arguments as you go along.

 

[Lady]

where is gnosis condemned in the bible?
flipping heck
Jesus openly spoke of the Single Eye which ive quoted many times
that IS gnosis
just because you don't know what gnosis is doesn't mean you can get away with creating your own rules as you go along.

Lol, chill!

You shall not eat anything with its blood. You shall not practice augury or witchcraft . . . . Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God (Leviticus 19:26,31).

 

[Lady]

where is gnosis condemned in the bible?
flipping heck
Jesus openly spoke of the Single Eye which ive quoted many times
that IS gnosis
just because you don't know what gnosis is doesn't mean you can get away with creating your own rules as you go along.

About the "single eye":

Any hypothesis needs to be re-evaluated in light of new evidence, and one scholar suggests that Jesus may actually be using a slightly different phrase than "good eye," even though he is still contrasting it with a "bad eye." The Greek of the passage does not say "good" (kalos) but "single, simple" (haplous). But, the idea of "singleness of eye" as a virtue is also found in other documents from Jesus' time, and "singleness"(haplotes) as a virtue is used several other places in the New Testament.6 This can also give us insight on Jesus' meaning in this passage. One document reads:

"I never slandered anyone, nor did I censure the life of any man, walking as I did in singleness of eye" (3:4)... "And now hearken to me, my children, and walk in singleness of heart… The single [minded] man covets not gold… There is no envy in his thoughts, nor [does he] worry with insatiable desire in his mind. For he walks in singleness, and beholds all things in uprightness of heart… Keep, therefore, my children, the law of God, and attain singleness...7
Here the idea of "singleness of eye" means sincerity, simplicity, and a freedom from envy for money. It is the opposite of having a "double heart" as in Psalm 12:2: "They speak falsehood to one another; with flattering lips and with a double heart they speak." A person with a "single eye" is one of integrity who does not have a secret agenda of self-advancement. Along with sincerity of spirit, he also has an integrity toward money that keeps him from covetousness and greed. Another passage from about the same time also gives insight:

The good man has not an eye of darkness that cannot see; for he shows mercy to all men, sinners though they may be, and though they may plot his ruin … His good mind will not let him speak with two tongues, one of blessing and one of cursing, one of insult and one of compliment, one of sorrow and one of joy, one of hypocrisy and one of truth, one of poverty and one of wealth; but it has a single disposition only, simple and pure, that says the same thing to everyone. 8
Interestingly this passage talks about a man's "eye" in terms of his caring for the needs of others, and contrasts an "eye of darkness" to a disposition of "singleness." The contrast is between pretending to care about others with an inward attitude of self-advancement, compared to having a genuine concern for others, without hidden motives. Some phrases here are very similar to the book of James. 9


Reading Jesus' Words Again

In light of the idioms of a "single eye" meaning integrity and a sincere attitude toward others, and "bad eye" meaning a greedy and self-centered outlook, now Jesus' words have much more clarity in their context. Here is my dynamic translation of Matthew 6:21-24, incorporating the idiomatic language he appears to be using:

So give generously to the poor and invest your energy and resources in eternal things, because when you do, your priorities and outlook will change. Your outlook toward others shows your true inner self. If you have a sincere, un-envious heart that wants to help others, your whole personality will shine because of it. But if you blind to the needs of others and are self-centered and greedy, your soul will be dark indeed. You cannot be a slave to your own greed and try to serve God — you have to choose.
In this entire passage, Jesus seems to be equating how we use our money with our basic attitude on life, and says that our generosity is the true measure of us as persons. When you get right down to it, if money rules us, God doesn't. It is one of Jesus' many teachings on money and what our attitude should be about it. In our materialistic culture, his words hit home.

This cultural study of the phrase "single eye" and "bad eye" can shed a lot of light on Jesus' teachings. It should make us eager to learn more when we see that the strange phrases that we sometimes find in the Bible had parallels in other ancient texts that can help explain them. Our interpretation of Jesus' words can be much more solid, so that we have confidence that we are hearing Jesus' ideas and not just our own. Otherwise, our interpretations are based on speculation from personal experience that can lead us down all sorts of strange paths, as some have gone on in understanding Jesus' words about "the single eye."

But, as important as it is to read the Bible accurately, it is even more important that once we understand Jesus' teaching, we take it to heart and change our lives because of it. Are we people of sincerity and integrity? Do we use our money to help others, and find ways to meet their needs? Or, in our hearts, is our own comfort and wealth our number one priority? Jesus is saying that we can't be both greedy and self-centered, and followers of him. We need to choose who we will serve — God or ourselves.

 

[JoChris]

(11) Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported I had a maternal uncle who treated the sting of the scorpion with the help of incantation. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) forbade incantation. He came to him and said: Allah's Messenger, you forbade to practise incantation, whereas I employ it for curing the sting of the scorpion, whereupon he said: He who amongst you is capable of employing it as a means to do good should do that. (Book #026, Hadith #5454)

(12) Jabir reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) prohibited incantation. Then the people of Amr b. Hazm came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: We know an incantation which we use for curing the sting of the scorpion but you have prohibited it. They recited (the words of incantation) before him, whereupon he said: I do not see any harm (in it), so he who amongst you is competent to do good to his brother should do that. (Book #026, Hadith #5456)

the only criteria is whether or not it contains shirk or evil.



you're making up an argument and quoting hadith out of context
do you know what bidah really even means?

in islam, there are 2 (or 4) lines
the Fard and Sunnah
and the Haram and mukruh

there are many many many things that are neither fard/sunnah or haram/mukruh
those things in islam, are simply
halal

but your way of thinking is "if the prophet SAW didn't do it, it is bidah"
no, bidah are those things that ALTER the fard/sunnah/haram/mukruh ie any change to those lines

So for example, Prophet SAW himself didn't used to read the taveeh jamat every day in ramadan. He did this so people are aware it is not fard, but sunnah.
Yet Caliph Umar RA used to read it everyday, thus going against the sunnah.
Umar RA said about this "it is a good innovation"

mind blown

maybe you should use your brain to think about the varying contexts in which 'bidah' is applied.
hadith only really present 1 angle to a story, sometimes you require a bigger picture to see the topic from multiple angles.


bottom line is this
ruqya is magic
it is perfectly allowed
So he who amongst you is competent to do good to his brother should do that.

Do you realise that sounds like your prophet Muhammad endorses the use of the occult if the ends justify the means?
There are NO permission slips for using the Occult in the Bible. NO loopholes, special clauses or small print.