Born Kind?

[Cintra]

Are feral children known to be particularly cruel?

It is very hard to find evidence of self raised children to know what they would be like without raising.

Whatever. I like to believe in the innate goodness of mankind.
I like to believe that the evil ones are an aberant minority.

 

[justjess]

Yet another bait bullshit thread...

Toddlers do not hit or pull hair because they are “bad” - 1) they do not understand that they are hurting someone so the ability to have a mean intent is not there and 2) they tantrum and pull hair because they have limited means of expressing themselves and have learned that tantruming or pulling hair gets them what they want, they figure this out by accident the first time and the rest is a natural learning process that happens subconsciously and they have no control over - but agin there is no malicious intent. That’s why you see bad behaviors decrease and eventually cease as children get older and acquire more sophisticated language skills.

Basic developmental psychology. All you need to figure this out is a 10 second google search.

 

[Faker He-Man]

Sure it does...it means that people aren’t born good.

I follow God who is the only One who knows good all the time and is the only One that can be trusted. If I trust myself..I am going to lead myself into sin..lead myself to what I want and not everything we want is good.

So you do ignore your inner moral compass, got it. What is it exactly that you want that is "not good"? Can you give a specific example? Once you recognize something as "not good", doesn't that also automatically mean that you no longer want it?

 

[Lisa]

Yet another bait bullshit thread...

Toddlers do not hit or pull hair because they are “bad” - 1) they do not understand that they are hurting someone so the ability to have a mean intent is not there and 2) they tantrum and pull hair because they have limited means of expressing themselves and have learned that tantruming or pulling hair gets them what they want, they figure this out by accident the first time and the rest is a natural learning process that happens subconsciously and they have no control over - but agin there is no malicious intent. That’s why you see bad behaviors decrease and eventually cease as children get older and acquire more sophisticated language skills.

Basic developmental psychology. All you need to figure this out is a 10 second google search.

How’s it bs? You have to teach children to be kind, to be good..that’s your first clue right there. They aren’t born with the knowledge to be good at the outset..if so, a parent’s job would be so much easier.

 

[Lisa]

So you do ignore your inner moral compass, got it. What is it exactly that you want that is "not good"? Can you give a specific example? Once you recognize something as "not good", doesn't that also automatically mean that you no longer want it?

I don’t think that means you no longer want it..just means that you should ask God to help you want His will not your own. Sort of like Jesus..He didn’t want to go through with the sacrifice..but He asks God, not my will but yours be done...I think that is the example we should have.

 

[Lisa]

Are feral children known to be particularly cruel?

It is very hard to find evidence of self raised children to know what they would be like without raising.

Whatever. I like to believe in the innate goodness of mankind.
I like to believe that the evil ones are an aberant minority.

The point I was trying to make is that if people were innately good..we wouldn’t have to teach our children to be good. Anyone can be evil..it doesn’t really take much..just read the news.

 

[Cintra]

The point I was trying to make is that if people were innately good..we wouldn’t have to teach our children to be good. Anyone can be evil..it doesn’t really take much..just read the news.

Lol!

I have an optimistic and hopeful view of humanity. Why are you trying to change my mind?

 

[Helioform]

I think it's fair to say that most sociopathic/narcissistic behavior is usually the result of being traumatized. And just being born into this world is a trauma in itself. The woman suffers by giving birth, the child suffers by being ejected from a safe environment (the womb) and thrown into the outside world. This alone can have a very big impact on the child's behaviour. This is why most people spend their time trying to retreat subconsciously into that safe environment that was the womb. And why we are being manipulated like this. The document "Quiet Weapons for Quiet Wars" explained this quite well.

And if the child is traumatized while being inside the womb due to unhealthy habits of the mother or the outside environment, then things get worse. This is why the Illuminati bloodlines often cause trauma of all kinds to their children. It turns them into psychopaths who can more easily become predators.

 

[justjess]

How’s it bs? You have to teach children to be kind, to be good..that’s your first clue right there. They aren’t born with the knowledge to be good at the outset..if so, a parent’s job would be so much easier.

You don’t have to teach them to be good or kind. They don’t have ill intent at that age therefore it can not be mean or bad, when they tantrum or pull hair, it just IS. It is a means of communication because they don’t have words. You teach them other ways to communicate, that is all.

Children are pure, any “evil” that shows in them is the result of learned behaviors from other people.

 

[Lisa]

Lol!

I have an optimistic and hopeful view of humanity. Why are you trying to change my mind?

Just trying to speak truth.

 

[Lisa]

You don’t have to teach them to be good or kind. They don’t have ill intent at that age therefore it can not be mean or bad, when they tantrum or pull hair, it just IS. It is a means of communication because they don’t have words. You teach them other ways to communicate, that is all.

Children are pure, any “evil” that shows in them is the result of learned behaviors from other people.

Or they are sinners and have to learn kindness and good. No one is pure not even children, we are all infected with sin.

 

[justjess]

Or they are sinners and have to learn kindness and good. No one is pure not even children, we are all infected with sin.

Lisa children aren’t bad or sinners or evil blah blah crap. Children are innocent. The world usually makes them “dirty” but they aren’t born into this world “dirty”

Your proof of this is a toddler pulled your hair. Or anecdotes about temper tantrums. I explained to you why young hildren have those behaviors and how they can not possibly indicate EVIL since young children’s brains lack the capacity to formulate intent in addition to not understanding that things hurt and other people are truly separate etc.

Children tantrum for one of very few reasons, none of which are evil and you see tantrums because they lack the verbal communication skills to get their needs met otherwise. If your child is still tantruming past the development of adequate verbalization and a functional understanding of social expectations that is your failure as a parent to respond to your children in appropriate ways and ignore inappropriate behaviors when they are capable of something else, not an indicator the child is evil.

The child that pulled your hair? Probably thought it was pretty or felt cool and wanted to touch it, not realizing their strength or that it would hurt and with no ill intention whatsoever. Or alternatively they learned that was a way to get attention or access to something else that they want - again, due to human parenting errors.

Stop trying to demonize children to justify your dogmatic belief in a book. And last I checked tantrums and pulling hair weren’t even sins.

The article you posted was about altruism. My two year old tries to share her meals with her baby dolls. Or me. Or her brother. There is evidence of altruism in young children - babies and toddlers. What on earth could happen to a child to turn them into someone like you god only knows..

 

[Lisa]

What on earth could happen to a child to turn them into someone like you god only knows..

lol...that’s a ridiculous statement.

For the rest..if people were born good and not sinful then we would have no need to teach kids to be good...that’s just common sense. But we have to teach our kids not to hit, pull hair and have tantrums.

You mention that they learn behaviors from parents..if good..would they want to do those behaviors or would they think they are wrong and not do them? The thing is the Bible says we all sin. Everyone, it doesn’t say only adults sin but all have sinned so in that case no one had to teach you to sin..and people struggle to do what is right and good all the time..even children. Yes kids learn behaviors too..but no one taught that 1.5 year old to hit me in the head..she instinctively knew how to do that.

 

[Phithx]

its not a theory. just an opinion.

I can support it with the bible, if you like.

Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. They knew they were naked. they knew right from wrong, and their children likewise, otherwise just leaving them untaught would return them the the state of eden, and undo original sin.

Genesis 2 - 3, I think.

If I may please; show this bit below about what actually happened in the Garden of Eden - it's so profound, and fundamental to everything here on Earth.

From:
THIS IS A GREAT MYSTERY MARRIAGE GUIDANCE By D. P. Grafton

"Before listening to Lucifer, Satan the Devil (the source or tree of the knowledge of evil), Adam and Eve were told by God (the tree of the Knowledge of Good) that they were beings of light locked inside of and therefore covered or "clothed" by human bodies, so, in that state of being, they were not "naked". They were beings of light "clothed" by human bodies. Once they listened to Satan the Devil (Heb. liar) and believed his lie that they were only human, then in their minds they were no longer a being of light clothed by a human body but only a human body clothed by nothing. Therefore they knew that they were then naked and hid from God."

 

[Lisa]

Before listening to Lucifer, Satan the Devil (the source or tree of the knowledge of evil), Adam and Eve were told by God (the tree of the Knowledge of Good) that they were beings of light locked inside of and therefore covered or "clothed" by human bodies, so, in that state of being, they were not "naked". They were beings of light "clothed" by human bodies. Once they listened to Satan the Devil (Heb. liar) and believed his lie that they were only human, then in their minds they were no longer a being of light clothed by a human body but only a human body clothed by nothing. Therefore they knew that they were then naked and hid from God."

This is a lie! God doesn’t tell them any of that in the Bible. What He does say is that man is made in Our image.

 

[Cintra]

If I may please; show this bit below about what actually happened in the Garden of Eden - it's so profound, and fundamental to everything here on Earth.

From:
THIS IS A GREAT MYSTERY MARRIAGE GUIDANCE By D. P. Grafton

"Before listening to Lucifer, Satan the Devil (the source or tree of the knowledge of evil), Adam and Eve were told by God (the tree of the Knowledge of Good) that they were beings of light locked inside of and therefore covered or "clothed" by human bodies, so, in that state of being, they were not "naked". They were beings of light "clothed" by human bodies. Once they listened to Satan the Devil (Heb. liar) and believed his lie that they were only human, then in their minds they were no longer a being of light clothed by a human body but only a human body clothed by nothing. Therefore they knew that they were then naked and hid from God."

You have some very interesting ideas.
Some of them are quite new to me.
Thank you.

 

[Phithx]

You have some very interesting ideas.
Some of them are quite new to me.
Thank you.

You're welcome, and thank-you for your reply.

They were new to me too.

 

[justjess]

lol...that’s a ridiculous statement.

For the rest..if people were born good and not sinful then we would have no need to teach kids to be good...that’s just common sense. But we have to teach our kids not to hit, pull hair and have tantrums.

You mention that they learn behaviors from parents..if good..would they want to do those behaviors or would they think they are wrong and not do them? The thing is the Bible says we all sin. Everyone, it doesn’t say only adults sin but all have sinned so in that case no one had to teach you to sin..and people struggle to do what is right and good all the time..even children. Yes kids learn behaviors too..but no one taught that 1.5 year old to hit me in the head..she instinctively knew how to do that.

No Lisa, it’s not. It’s clear SOMETHING happened to you to make you so bitter and jaded about your fellow human beings and to make you so unempathetic towards them. Someone doesn’t get that cold for no reason. We certainly aren’t BORN that way.

They do not have ill intent at that age. They can not formulate “bad actions” - their actions are simply a means of communication because they lack other means. You are attributing value judgements to behaviors that otherwise are neutral based on your own morals and judgements.

That child didn’t hit you in the head (previously you said pulled your hair but whatever) because she wanted to hurt you. She hit you in the head because she has learned that is an effective way to get attention. My guess is that her other attempts to get attention have been ignored which is why she resorts to maladaptive behaviors to get her needs met. If she instead was given attention for positive behaviors and her negative behaviors (not in line with social mores - not negative because she wants to hurt you and is evil) were ignored instead she wouldn’t be pulling hair or hitting people. But we as parents and adults tend to be ass backwards in how we teach our children - yell and scold and explain things when their “bad” and barely pay attention when they’re “good”. It’s because we don’t understand that all they are looking for is ATTENTION. So that yelling and scolding and explaining from an adult pov should be punishing when instead from the child’s it’s rewarding.

With children so young especially, but also with people in general, the FORM of the behavior is not the appropriate focus. The FUNCTION of the behavior is. You are focusing on the form and attributing mentalistic interpretations to them which are invalid, especially and particularly, in the context of a small child that has not yet acquired the level of brain development to formulate behaviors based on negative intentions.

I’m sorry that the god in your bible is so depressing and negative towards humans that you have internalized this ridiculous conception of life. It must be a very shitty way to experience the world.

 

[Lisa]

No Lisa, it’s not. It’s clear SOMETHING happened to you to make you so bitter and jaded about your fellow human beings and to make you so unempathetic towards them. Someone doesn’t get that cold for no reason. We certainly aren’t BORN that way.

I’m not cold towards people...I have common sense and I deal with reality..not how I want things to be.

That child didn’t hit you in the head (previously you said pulled your hair but whatever) because she wanted to hurt you. She hit you in the head because she has learned that is an effective way to get attention. My guess is that her other attempts to get attention have been ignored which is why she resorts to maladaptive behaviors to get her needs met. If she instead was given attention for positive behaviors and her negative behaviors (not in line with social mores - not negative because she wants to hurt you and is evil) were ignored instead she wouldn’t be pulling hair or hitting people. But we as parents and adults tend to be ass backwards in how we teach our children - yell and scold and explain things when their “bad” and barely pay attention when they’re “good”. It’s because we don’t understand that all they are looking for is ATTENTION. So that yelling and scolding and explaining from an adult pov should be punishing when instead from the child’s it’s rewarding.

I mentioned hair pulling also..but didn’t say the child pulled my hair..she only hit me in the head. She was getting a lot of my attention. She walked away and I was talking to my husband when she came up behind me smiled sweetly and then hit me in the back of the head. I have a picture of her right before she hit me..cause she looked so sweet my husband took the picture..and with the live picture..you can also see when she hit me in the head. No one taught her to do any of that.
I did tell her she was wrong and that wasn’t nice and she went to the corner and pouted about it.

Just like her parents own cats...they had to teach her how to behave around them because her instincts are to pull their hair and hit them. That’s the way life is...we are born with sin and we have to learn to be good and it starts at a young age.

I’m sorry that the god in your bible is so depressing and negative towards humans that you have internalized this ridiculous conception of life. It must be a very shitty way to experience the world.

He actually isn’t negative and depressing about humans..after all He sent His Son to die for us so we can live with Him forever..I wouldn’t call that depressing. But..He does tell it like it is, which is we are all sinners and we all fall short of His glory. We must be taught to do right, even as adults.
I think the worst way to experience the world is to lie about why things are and making up excuses so that we aren’t really to blame for things when our sin natures are to blame. It must be exhausting to keep coming up with reasons why all the time.

 

[morita]

Children are like adults..they can be really sweet..but then they can also be very bad.

Yes, but we're supposed to absolve children of their faults because they're children. And as a result they become adults who don't take responsibility and are a liability to not only other people but to themselves...