Lisa
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Must be hard to keep smiling like you want to see the “faithful”...haha!
Catholicism 101
- Thread starter Toulouse
- Start date
UnderAlienControl
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1) I think that we all need to remember that there was only supposed to be one Christian Church, not the multitudes of churches that we have now. As a former Protestant, I can attest to the fact that a lot of Protestants don't have it all figured out either. (I'd still be one if that was the case). I pray a lot for the reunification of our whole church.
2) I understand the desire to have these conversations and to "want to set the record straight", but after a certain point, some people just don't want to hear that everything they've been taught about Catholicism is wrong. I grew up in a church that was very anti-Catholic and it wasn't until I started dating a Catholic and making Catholic friends that I started to see that a lot of what I was taught was really just bigotry. (And even then, I didn't want to hear it because then I'd have to start rethinking a whole lot of things!)
It wasn't until I started looking into (and struggling with) the issues of Mary and the Saints for myself that I realized that there's a lot of bad teaching, untruth and misrepresentation in the Protestant community (which is why I can't be one). The bottom line for me is that we have the Eucharist and the Real Presence. (I know I wasn't getting that in the churches I previously attended.) Some of these arguments are important, but they aren't the "game-ender" like the Eucharist. (Either your church has it or they don't..... and if you don't, then why would I bother or waste my time?)
We can argue about the Pope or who did what when or why we teach what we teach. But in the end, it's the Mass and the Eucharist. Our faith isn't dependent on who the Pope is or the media "pull quotes"..... Usually - there's a lot more to the story (through encyclicals or books....) than just the one pull quote. (Reminds me of how people like to pick and choose their verses out of the Bible and don't want to see the bigger picture or just ignore what they don't like.....)
Also, the "New Evangelization" would be a wash if the Pope actually meant that Catholics shouldn't share their faith. (Obviously, my archbishop hasn't gotten the message (not to proselytize) from Rome because this is all he talks about - how to bring more people to Jesus. People around here are really excited about what he's doing and the Pope's not telling him to stop, so I guess we need to be shocked.....that the internet or the media isn't accurate?????)
3) I don't deny that the church has been a part of a lot of awfulness in the world. However, I also realize that the church did a lot of good things as well - like taught people how to read and write and gave them an education and medical care. The world would be a lot worse off if Jesus hadn't come and founded his church.
Ultimately, the church is made up of people and none of us are perfect all the time. We all do dumb things and things we regret, but we all also have potential to do great things and be redeemed.
2) I understand the desire to have these conversations and to "want to set the record straight", but after a certain point, some people just don't want to hear that everything they've been taught about Catholicism is wrong. I grew up in a church that was very anti-Catholic and it wasn't until I started dating a Catholic and making Catholic friends that I started to see that a lot of what I was taught was really just bigotry. (And even then, I didn't want to hear it because then I'd have to start rethinking a whole lot of things!)
It wasn't until I started looking into (and struggling with) the issues of Mary and the Saints for myself that I realized that there's a lot of bad teaching, untruth and misrepresentation in the Protestant community (which is why I can't be one). The bottom line for me is that we have the Eucharist and the Real Presence. (I know I wasn't getting that in the churches I previously attended.) Some of these arguments are important, but they aren't the "game-ender" like the Eucharist. (Either your church has it or they don't..... and if you don't, then why would I bother or waste my time?)
We can argue about the Pope or who did what when or why we teach what we teach. But in the end, it's the Mass and the Eucharist. Our faith isn't dependent on who the Pope is or the media "pull quotes"..... Usually - there's a lot more to the story (through encyclicals or books....) than just the one pull quote. (Reminds me of how people like to pick and choose their verses out of the Bible and don't want to see the bigger picture or just ignore what they don't like.....)
Also, the "New Evangelization" would be a wash if the Pope actually meant that Catholics shouldn't share their faith. (Obviously, my archbishop hasn't gotten the message (not to proselytize) from Rome because this is all he talks about - how to bring more people to Jesus. People around here are really excited about what he's doing and the Pope's not telling him to stop, so I guess we need to be shocked.....that the internet or the media isn't accurate?????)
3) I don't deny that the church has been a part of a lot of awfulness in the world. However, I also realize that the church did a lot of good things as well - like taught people how to read and write and gave them an education and medical care. The world would be a lot worse off if Jesus hadn't come and founded his church.
Ultimately, the church is made up of people and none of us are perfect all the time. We all do dumb things and things we regret, but we all also have potential to do great things and be redeemed.
Lisa
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Is this what happened to you then..
2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
The catholics did and do make it hard to truly know God though with all its traditions. One doesn’t need the eucharist...that’s a false teaching.
Axl888
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Last edited:
...excerpts.... not Catholic, so don't particularly care, other than as a harbinger of end-times prophesies and 'signs of the times' in general....
...sounds as if the Pope is ruffling the feathers of some traditional Catholics.....
CDL. BURKE WARNS OF VATICAN PUSH FOR ONE-WORLD GOVERNMENT
ROME (ChurchMilitant.com) - Pope Francis' call for a global educational pact at the Vatican in May 2020 is potentially an event to promote a one-world government, a leading traditionalist cardinal is warning.
Cardinal Raymond Burke, former prefect of the Apostolic Signatura, is also excoriating the Amazon Synod's motif of "ecological conversion" as a masonic subterfuge to advance a one-world government and the jargon of "synodal conversion" in Amazon and German synods as a deception to protestantize the Catholic Church.
...and...
In his recent message for the 2020 launch of the Global Compact on Education, Pope Francis uses the word "global" six times, urging "more inclusive education." The pope calls for an "educational village" and a "global agreement about an education" that includes ecological concern as well as "dialogue between religions."
...full article here: https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/cdl-burke-warns-of-plot-to-protestantize-church-using-regional-synods
...sounds as if the Pope is ruffling the feathers of some traditional Catholics.....
CDL. BURKE WARNS OF VATICAN PUSH FOR ONE-WORLD GOVERNMENT
ROME (ChurchMilitant.com) - Pope Francis' call for a global educational pact at the Vatican in May 2020 is potentially an event to promote a one-world government, a leading traditionalist cardinal is warning.
Cardinal Raymond Burke, former prefect of the Apostolic Signatura, is also excoriating the Amazon Synod's motif of "ecological conversion" as a masonic subterfuge to advance a one-world government and the jargon of "synodal conversion" in Amazon and German synods as a deception to protestantize the Catholic Church.
...and...
In his recent message for the 2020 launch of the Global Compact on Education, Pope Francis uses the word "global" six times, urging "more inclusive education." The pope calls for an "educational village" and a "global agreement about an education" that includes ecological concern as well as "dialogue between religions."
...full article here: https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/cdl-burke-warns-of-plot-to-protestantize-church-using-regional-synods
Swiftturtle
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I’m confused how this thread turned into a measuring contest between Christianity & Islam, instead of a discussion about Catholicism. Either way, I’m jumping into the title of this thread instead...
I think the general differences raised previously about prayer re: Mary etc are quite common- at least from what I’ve read. That’s all already been debated, so...
On another note, the church isn’t a building or establishment, it’s the believers. I don’t understand how the Vatican is allowed to be its own sovereign city, bank, or ruling hierarchy. I especially don’t understand the Vatican library, and how it’s allowed to remain almost entirely secret from the public.
The pomp & circumstance of the Pharisees is something Jesus abhorred and vehemently opposed. The idea that Jesus would be proud of some dude walking around in white & gold while ppl try to kiss his ring or touch his robe, while claiming to represent Him, when Christ continually spoke of humility & selflessness, is beyond me. God regularly used ppl that weren’t deemed ‘worthy’ in the eyes of the public (like Gideon, Moses & his speech impediment, women).
I tend to think of the Vatican as a parallel to Solomon. He was gifted with knowledge (Vatican library) that gave rise to his wealth (Vatican bank), and prestige (pope rules over a sovereign area, like a King would have, & meets with world leaders). As Solomon’s power grew, so did his acceptance of pagan practices (have you seen the videos about pagan symbolism in the Vatican alone? Whaaaaat).
There are things in every branch of Christianity that need to be held to account, but that proves precisely why no leader should be above reproach.
I think the general differences raised previously about prayer re: Mary etc are quite common- at least from what I’ve read. That’s all already been debated, so...
On another note, the church isn’t a building or establishment, it’s the believers. I don’t understand how the Vatican is allowed to be its own sovereign city, bank, or ruling hierarchy. I especially don’t understand the Vatican library, and how it’s allowed to remain almost entirely secret from the public.
The pomp & circumstance of the Pharisees is something Jesus abhorred and vehemently opposed. The idea that Jesus would be proud of some dude walking around in white & gold while ppl try to kiss his ring or touch his robe, while claiming to represent Him, when Christ continually spoke of humility & selflessness, is beyond me. God regularly used ppl that weren’t deemed ‘worthy’ in the eyes of the public (like Gideon, Moses & his speech impediment, women).
I tend to think of the Vatican as a parallel to Solomon. He was gifted with knowledge (Vatican library) that gave rise to his wealth (Vatican bank), and prestige (pope rules over a sovereign area, like a King would have, & meets with world leaders). As Solomon’s power grew, so did his acceptance of pagan practices (have you seen the videos about pagan symbolism in the Vatican alone? Whaaaaat).
There are things in every branch of Christianity that need to be held to account, but that proves precisely why no leader should be above reproach.
Lisa
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He’s actually been doing that for awhile now.
UnderAlienControl
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Mr.Anderson
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Hey, I'm back. Gotta read this thread troughougly! Be back soon. Just came back from a trip and the jet lag is still affecting me
free2018
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Interesting convo.
I was born a Catholic and now I just claim Christianity.
That said, I go to mass once in awhile. It doesn't bother me. That happened through years of prayer. None of the sects of Christianity in their present form call to me much. I'm no longer much of a joiner.
I don't, however, see non-Catholics are more saved than Catholics. My problems with the RCC are the same ones I had as a lad. I believe the one eyed clergy should be stoned to death-- not reassigned to another parish. I personally would prefer that priests and nuns were able to get married. The celibacy angle-- even though I have personally practiced it-- is not really conducive to serenity and sanity in my experience. In addition, I remember noticing early that very few priests were actually completely celibate in reality.
As for dogma, if it's not in the scriptures, I am not really interested in it.
Edited
I was born a Catholic and now I just claim Christianity.
That said, I go to mass once in awhile. It doesn't bother me. That happened through years of prayer. None of the sects of Christianity in their present form call to me much. I'm no longer much of a joiner.
I don't, however, see non-Catholics are more saved than Catholics. My problems with the RCC are the same ones I had as a lad. I believe the one eyed clergy should be stoned to death-- not reassigned to another parish. I personally would prefer that priests and nuns were able to get married. The celibacy angle-- even though I have personally practiced it-- is not really conducive to serenity and sanity in my experience. In addition, I remember noticing early that very few priests were actually completely celibate in reality.
As for dogma, if it's not in the scriptures, I am not really interested in it.
Edited
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Mr.Anderson
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I see much people bashing the Roman Catholic Apostholic Church... yet some guys forgot the Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church too. Just a brief comment.
But now, seriously. I've readen most of the posts here and most of them are the same thing i see everywhere.
What I bear in mind is that the catholic church is saint and sinner. Saint because it is guided by the Holy Spirit and sinner because it is made by people, who are sinners.
One of the guys I like to mention often is st. francis. He was a guy that saw the wrong things in church and did his best to change them.
But them again I'd like to ask our fellow members that instead of discussing if catholics are either christian or not we'd focus on the actual spiritual warfare.
Even if, let's say, the catholic church as an institution is rotten to the core, does that means that me and the other catholics are rotten too? Satan, the spirit, is our enemy. Not human flesh and souls. We can keep discussing if catholics, non-denomitional christians, muslims are right or wrong but the real enemy is like a hungry lion stalking our souls waiting for devour us.
Guys, wake up.
While you keep discussing this kind of stuff here lady gaga is outta there. the OTO is outta there. The sirius worship is outta there. The pedophilic rings are outta there, and they have infiltrated EVERY religious system here in the world. Keep your focus on what is important. This is not a time for discussion, while we are discussing these things here children are being sold, the population is getting fat and the immoral and just plain wrong is taking over the world.
If we just keep doing this one day we'll wake up and we'll say hello to our neighboor and his husband the family dog.
But now, seriously. I've readen most of the posts here and most of them are the same thing i see everywhere.
What I bear in mind is that the catholic church is saint and sinner. Saint because it is guided by the Holy Spirit and sinner because it is made by people, who are sinners.
One of the guys I like to mention often is st. francis. He was a guy that saw the wrong things in church and did his best to change them.
But them again I'd like to ask our fellow members that instead of discussing if catholics are either christian or not we'd focus on the actual spiritual warfare.
Even if, let's say, the catholic church as an institution is rotten to the core, does that means that me and the other catholics are rotten too? Satan, the spirit, is our enemy. Not human flesh and souls. We can keep discussing if catholics, non-denomitional christians, muslims are right or wrong but the real enemy is like a hungry lion stalking our souls waiting for devour us.
Guys, wake up.
While you keep discussing this kind of stuff here lady gaga is outta there. the OTO is outta there. The sirius worship is outta there. The pedophilic rings are outta there, and they have infiltrated EVERY religious system here in the world. Keep your focus on what is important. This is not a time for discussion, while we are discussing these things here children are being sold, the population is getting fat and the immoral and just plain wrong is taking over the world.
If we just keep doing this one day we'll wake up and we'll say hello to our neighboor and his husband the family dog.
Lisa
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Catholicism is just another lie by the father of lies. Another deception to keep people away from God, the true God. That’s why I come against catholicism so hard, its a false gospel and doesn’t bring people to God but keeps them away from Him..using man’s traditions to bring religion into peoples lives, using the name of Jesus to get man’s attention but keeping him in myths that don’t help but hinder man’s progress to see God.
You can say that stuff is worse..but is it, when they all work against man knowing His creator? And, I have no doubt that there will be no way to fight against our neighbor and his husband the family dog...Jesus says that the world will get worse..so bad even that it will be the worst time anyone has ever seen, we can’t stop this by coming together, we can only save ourselves by believing in Jesus and not perish but have everlasting life.
Artful Revealer
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Lisa
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I don’t read comics..so I’m unsure what you’re talking about.
Artful Revealer
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That's really hard to believe.
Lisa
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Is it? What is it that I’ve said that isn’t adult?
Toulouse
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Oh, boy...
free2018
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Toulouse, he is NOT a great pope. The reports I get from South America is THAT at the very least he has a very serious drinking problem-- as many in the clergy do.