You said I am offering my opinion on this thread’s topic, and that I don’t understand the verses I’m using. I’m sincerely asking for examples of what you accuse me of. It’s only fair.
In the meantime, why don’t we go through
@phipps original post and see who’s offering opinion, and who doesn’t understand the verses they’re using?
I could also use this opportunity to address another of @FaithAndStrength’s charges against me — that I cut and paste my posts — but I think we all know who’s cutting and pasting on this thread.
we should avoid speculation or an attempt to make the 144,000 an exclusive club.
This is a misunderstanding of scripture, because we can read right in Revelation 7 that the 144,000 actually is an exclusive club. Verse 4 tells us they are selected from believers that are
exclusively of the children of Israel, that they are exclusively male, and that they are exclusively virgins. Most of us wouldn’t pass the first cut, even if we're good on the second and third, and since
@phipps has so far declined the opportunity to prove from scripture that all believers somehow become children of Israel by default, I’m going to keep trusting that when the Bible says “children of Israel”, it means Israel’s actual descendants, and not anyone else.
The figures of speech in Revelation 7 are symbolic. So why would we interpret the 144,000 differently? We must be consistent in our interpretation.
This is the silliest thing I’ve read on this thread. If you follow that rule, the earth, sea, and trees in that chapter are also symbolic. Normal people can read that chapter and recognize what is intended to be an expression, and what is intended to be taken literally. It's the height of copping out to make
everything symbolic, especially when the question that
@phipps can’t ever answer is, “Symbolic of what, exactly?” What is the symbolism of the 144,000 being males, and what is the symbolism of each tribe they are said to be from?
Of course, it’s idiotic to read the Bible that way. It means that when Genesis 7:11 says that the windows of heaven were opened during the great flood of Noah, you either have to believe that heaven has literal windows, or the flood was purely a symbolic event. Of course, no one is that obtuse, but when it comes to Revelation 7, we are asked to be, for the sake of not damaging
@phipps's fragile interpretation of the entire book.
The 144,000 is only symbolic of saints portrayed in the Bible as faithful to God and ready to meet Jesus face-to-face at the end of time.
Again, there is no good and scriptural reason given why the 144,000 is symbolic. That means it’s just opinion, and since it's in conflict with much of the rest of the Bible, it's the wrong opinion.
The 144,000 are faithful followers of Jesus Christ who make up the end-time universal church of God.
Then why does the Bible specifically say they are
of the tribes of the children of Israel? Why are they male? If all believers are children of Israel, there must be a case for it in scripture. There is not, except for some badly misunderstood verses that contradict much else in the Bible.
Our responsibility then is not to worry about who makes up the 144,000. It only leads to a spirit of judgement and criticism.
Deliberate misinterpretation of the Bible should always be criticized And I have to wonder what kind of spirit deliberately mishandles the word of God, and then ignores clear scripture that contradicts their interpretation.
Instead, let’s strive to be among the 144,000 saints who will live to witness the return of Jesus Christ. We must be faithful to the daily reign of God in our lives in anticipation of His eternal kingdom.
Unless a person is a male, a virgin, and a physical descendant of Jacob, there is no way they will be a part of the 144,000. It's absolutely unbiblical.
