Sex work should be decriminalized

[elsbet]

No doubt!

Right?

Fortunately, there are people out there (many who have gotten out, themselves), who do outreach work for those still hopelessly stuck in this lifestyle (death syle, really).

While I don't believe punitive measures are a solution (at all), they do serve as sort of a *pause* in the course of the victim's lifestyle.

EXCERPT TIME MAGAZINE ARTICLE ​

CATCHING JOHNS​

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Until recently, most jurisdictions in the U.S. have focused their energy on arresting prostituted women— according to records from the Department of Justice, more than 43,000 women were arrested for prostitution-related offenses in 2010, compared to just over 19,000 men (this number includes johns, pimps, and male sex workers).​

​

But since 2011, Sheriff Dart’s office has organized the “National Day of Johns Arrests,” now re-named “National Johns Suppression Initiative,” a series of stings coordinated with other jurisdictions over the course of several weeks, aimed at encouraging a permanent change in police practices.​

​

Dart’s office now arrests just as many johns per year as sex workers, and with a radically different agenda— while clients are hit with a ticket and fine that can reach $1,300, sex workers are arrested and then offered counseling and job training through the Sheriff’s Women’s Justice Program, which is run by sex trafficking survivors. 60% of the money collected from johns’ fines goes to support the Women’s Justice Program, the other 40% goes to juvenile justice programs. Cook county does johns stings year-round, but the national initiative happens a few times a year.​

LINK​

Rather than creating a compassionless situation that essentially erases these women from the public radar, it is an effort toward a viable solution to save and change their lives. More importantly, it is manned (if you will) by women-- survivors-- with the experience to reach these people, right where they are-- that is, they will believe it is possible. That is the real battle imo.

 

[Lisa]

You don’t follow MaYa angelou? Really? First off she’s dead. Second off she was like 90 when she died.. she’s a world renowned poet/author. “I know why the caged bird sings” - “still I rise” ... most people are assigned to read atleast one in school at some point.

Everyone is beautiful Lisa. I’ve met drug addicts and strippers with bigger hearts than you. Just because a person doesn’t do everything the way you think they should, or has blatant flaws or problems does not mean they aren’t beautiful.

As for my daughter I hope to create a world/ life for her where that’s never something she has to consider but if she did I wouldn’t love her any less. I never said prostitution was great everyone should go do it, I said it should be decriminalized and specifically stated that it goes against my own sexual morals but it should be decriminalized anyway.

Maya was a writer right...I don’t follow her stuff..doesn’t matter if she’s dead or not her work lives on.

Would you be happy if your daughter was a prostitute? Why or why not?

 

[justjess]

Maya was a writer right...I don’t follow her stuff..doesn’t matter if she’s dead or not her work lives on.

Would you be happy if your daughter was a prostitute? Why or why not?

Read the entirety of my responses before asking me stupid questions please.

Whether or not I’d be happy doesn’t mean if that’s the path she chose she’d stop being beautiful. Or worthy. You are trying to have a conversation or make a point that is entirely separate from 1) what I was saying and 2) the point of the thread.

Again I clearly stated: I think it should be legalized despite the fact that it goes against my own sexual morals.

 

[Lisa]

Read the entirety of my responses before asking me stupid questions please.

Whether or not I’d be happy doesn’t mean if that’s the path she chose she’d stop being beautiful. Or worthy. You are trying to have a conversation or make a point that is entirely separate from 1) what I was saying and 2) the point of the thread.

Again I clearly stated: I think it should be legalized despite the fact that it goes against my own sexual morals.

What stupid question did I ask?

Sure..it does matter if you’d be happy if your daughter decided to be a “beautiful” prostitute. Being a prostitute isn’t actually beautiful but a sole crushing and demeaning experience that shows that you are feeling anything but beautiful about yourself. And its not coincidental that prostitution is connected with criminal activity...selling yourself isn’t beautiful and even if its legalized...it will never be beautiful.

You don’t help people become better people by legalizing something. Doesn’t help to legalize sleeping on sidewalks, or give drug addicts needles. It only enables them to continue to do something that hurts them and doesn’t help them overcome homelessness or addiction. Legalizing prostitution isn’t going to help the women regain a sense of self and overcome where they’ve fallen to....it will just keep them in that bad cycle. I think the program @elsbet talks about above is a better way to help then legalization. But unless we talk about the real problems that put women into prostitution in the first place..addiction..than we really aren’t going to help anyone.

 

[Maes17]

What sex workers do with their body is their doing.
I have no control, they know the consequences of their job. Std’s, drugs, street life like possible violence etc. so that’s their choosing.

I’m not a supporter of it, but if that’s what they choose. Then that’s them. I don’t think it should be criminalized, as it’s a choosing they want to do.
Just be aware of the dangers.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

I would hope so but you just never really know with her..

When I resigned from CPS because I just couldn’t handle it anymore with the MS constantly flaring up naively not considering it was the middle of a recession and was subesequently unable to find ANY other job for over a year I was offered a job as a stripper through a friend of a friend. I seriously considered it. Had I not had wealthy parents that were willing to support me and my son until I got back on my feet and had room for me to move back into their home I would have took the job. I wouldn’t have had a choice. Stripping isn’t prostitution but I can understand how someone can get there pretty easily.

My moral convictions tell me there is almost always another, better way to make ends meet. However, my life experience informs me that people fall through the cracks everyday. Good and talented people, and that the answer often cant be boiled down to "moral conviction". The exception being the rich and powerful people whom intentionally impose the conditions which foster these decisions having to be made in the first place. Their moral failures are part of the issue's root problem.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

Really? Are prostitutes and strippers beautiful enough to want your own daughter to be one?

Seeing the beauty and value of human beings from all walks of life is a given for anyone with a heart that is alive Lisa. For someone who portrays themself as such a follower of the faith, you seem to have (intentionally) missed most of the behavior and compassion lessons given by Christ himself.

Since you dont seem interested in following his words, how about an old cowboy adage for you: "Try not to look down your nose at others, especially when riding on your high horse........"

 

[justjess]

What stupid question did I ask?

Sure..it does matter if you’d be happy if your daughter decided to be a “beautiful” prostitute. Being a prostitute isn’t actually beautiful but a sole crushing and demeaning experience that shows that you are feeling anything but beautiful about yourself. And its not coincidental that prostitution is connected with criminal activity...selling yourself isn’t beautiful and even if its legalized...it will never be beautiful.

You don’t help people become better people by legalizing something. Doesn’t help to legalize sleeping on sidewalks, or give drug addicts needles. It only enables them to continue to do something that hurts them and doesn’t help them overcome homelessness or addiction. Legalizing prostitution isn’t going to help the women regain a sense of self and overcome where they’ve fallen to....it will just keep them in that bad cycle. I think the program @elsbet talks about above is a better way to help then legalization. But unless we talk about the real problems that put women into prostitution in the first place..addiction..than we really aren’t going to help anyone.

Who are you trying to fool Lisa? You don’t even support soup kitchens. Now you want people to believe you support expensive and extensive social programs for prostitutes? Seriously?

I didn’t say prostitution was beautiful. I said even prostitutes are beautiful. As people. I just watched a Christmas carol... I wonder why the spirits haven’t visited you and unfroze your heart yet?

 

[Lisa]

Who are you trying to fool Lisa? You don’t even support soup kitchens. Now you want people to believe you support expensive and extensive social programs for prostitutes? Seriously?

I didn’t say prostitution was beautiful. I said even prostitutes are beautiful. As people. I just watched a Christmas carol... I wonder why the spirits haven’t visited you and unfroze your heart yet?

At least those programs are trying to help the woman stop prostitution and not help them continue in it and continue to degrade themselves. I see that as a solution....soup kitchens not so much. Those people are still homeless and hopeless.

I would say that prostitutes don’t feel beautiful...in fact I would imagine they have no self esteem and feel dirty...which is why they continue to do the drugs.

You know that’s just a movie...

 

[Lisa]

Seeing the beauty and value of human beings from all walks of life is a given for anyone with a heart that is alive Lisa. For someone who portrays themself as such a follower of the faith, you seem to have (intentionally) missed most of the behavior and compassion lessons given by Christ himself.

Since you dont seem interested in following his words, how about an old cowboy adage for you: "Try not to look down your nose at others, especially when riding on your high horse........"

I would say even prostitutes don’t see their profession as uplifting and edifying but shameful and demeaning. The answer isn’t in legalization but in changing the woman’s thoughts about herself and helping with addiction...but like Jess said, that’s expensive.

 

[justjess]

At least those programs are trying to help the woman stop prostitution and not help them continue in it and continue to degrade themselves. I see that as a solution....soup kitchens not so much. Those people are still homeless and hopeless.

I would say that prostitutes don’t feel beautiful...in fact I would imagine they have no self esteem and feel dirty...which is why they continue to do the drugs.

You know that’s just a movie...

Yeah it’s a movie, well actually a book (but you seem not to be the reading type) with a classic timeless message that’s been remad a million times for a reason.

I’m sure you telling them their not beautiful helps a lot with those self esteem issues you are so worried about..

Those programs when they exist are band aids that don’t change the underlying socioeconomic reasons that contributed to the situation to begin with. They are no different then soup kitchens. I’m supportive of BOTH but I see no reason for you to differentiate here. None.

Not all prostitutes are addicts Lisa. There’s women with mba’s no addiction making a million dollars a year as prostitutes. Law students. Med students. Bored housewives.

It is the oldest profession for a reason, that reason being that women’s sexuality is their most marketable natural commodity (for men it’s physical strength). If you want to change things, if it bothers you so much, start there.

 

[Lisa]

Yeah it’s a movie, well actually a book (but you seem not to be the reading type) with a classic timeless message that’s been remad a million times for a reason.

I’m sure you telling them their not beautiful helps a lot with those self esteem issues you are so worried about..

Those programs when they exist are band aids that don’t change the underlying socioeconomic reasons that contributed to the situation to begin with. They are no different then soup kitchens. I’m supportive of BOTH but I see no reason for you to differentiate here. None.

Not all prostitutes are addicts Lisa. There’s women with mba’s no addiction making a million dollars a year as prostitutes. Law students. Med students. Bored housewives.

It is the oldest profession for a reason, that reason being that women’s sexuality is their most marketable natural commodity (for men it’s physical strength). If you want to change things, if it bothers you so much, start there.

Lol...you’re the one that mentioned you watched it as a movie...

Truth sets you free...they already know that their choice doesn’t make them beautiful but they can learn that they don’t have to stay there...which I think is more hopeful than to say you’re still beautiful.

What I read sounded like they were trying to work with the women to help them change their situations which I think is better than keeping them in the situations they are in and making it legal. Making it legal doesn’t make it right.

 

[elsbet]

Not all prostitutes are addicts Lisa. There’s women with mba’s no addiction making a million dollars a year as prostitutes. Law students. Med students. Bored housewives.

It is the oldest profession for a reason, that reason being that women’s sexuality is their most marketable natural commodity (for men it’s physical strength). If you want to change things, if it bothers you so much, start there.

I would venture they are an extreme minority. Drug addiction doesn't plague all prostitutes, but it does affect a very large majority-- and drug rehabilitation is not a bandaid-- for those who want it, it does work. Even if they don't get the program the first time around, knowing *how* to get it when they are ready is invaluable (fact)-- that is true for any addiction, whether drugs, gambling, food or sex-- and the treatment for maintaining sobriety is free, and still used by the court system, in my state.

For the minority who are not addicted, they may not know they have alternatives... but they should. The purpose of a bandaid is give the damage protection, and promote healing-- a worthy investment.

The millionare whores can bail themselves out of jail, and hire an attorney-- they aren't really the people who need help from the state. Their problems are different from the average prostitute, who typically has no desire to be in that line of work. If legalized, they should be subject to the same state licensing requirements as anyone else, to follow basic health and safety practices-- renewed yearly, with mandatory CEU's and taxed.

~•~
As for the moral aspect everyone is pretending to be hung up on-- taking the women off the radar won't help-- it will make it worse. It always does. Government solutions (so called) rarely help anyone other than the government, when it comes to vice (and most everything else, but that's another topic). And... "the one without sin among you should be the first to throw a stone at her." I'll let the reader decide to whom 'her' applies.

 

[justjess]

I would venture they are an extreme minority. Drug addiction doesn't plague all prostitutes, but it does affect a very large majority-- and drug rehabilitation is not a bandaid-- for those who want it, it does work. Even if they don't get the program the first time around, knowing *how* to get it when they are ready is invaluable (fact)-- that is true for any addiction, whether drugs, gambling, food or sex-- and the treatment for maintaining sobriety is free, and still used by the court system, in my state.

For the minority who are not addicted, they may not know they have alternatives... but they should. The purpose of a bandaid is give the damage protection, and promote healing-- a worthy investment.

The millionare whores can bail themselves out of jail, and hire an attorney-- they aren't really the people who need help from the state. Their problems are different from the average prostitute, who typically has no desire to be in that line of work. If legalized, they should be subject to the same state licensing requirements as anyone else, to follow basic health and safety practices-- renewed yearly, with mandatory CEU's and taxed.

~•~
As for the moral aspect everyone is pretending to be hung up on-- taking the women off the radar won't help-- it will make it worse. It always does. Government solutions (so called) rarely help anyone other than the government, when it comes to vice (and most everything else, but that's another topic). And... "the one without sin among you should be the first to throw a stone at her." I'll let the reader decide to whom 'her' applies.

The popularity of sugar baby sites would beg to differ. Most are there to pay their way through school

The efficacy rate for most rehabs is abysmal. Same for most “programs” used to addiction... any solution that treats the symptoms and not the roots is a band aid. When prostitution typically has an economic root a rehab isn’t going to solve it, even if there’s addiction involved. And even if miraculously the rehab solves the addiction.

Economic programs would fare better imo. But then you will still have people engaging in it tonpay for medical school or jimmy choos or whatever.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

I would say even prostitutes don’t see their profession as uplifting and edifying but shameful and demeaning. The answer isn’t in legalization but in changing the woman’s thoughts about herself and helping with addiction...but like Jess said, that’s expensive.

Where did I ever advocate for the legalization of prostitution Lisa?

 

[TempestOfTempo]

The popularity of sugar baby sites would beg to differ. Most are there to pay their way through school

The efficacy rate for most rehabs is abysmal. Same for most “programs” used to addiction... any solution that treats the symptoms and not the roots is a band aid. When prostitution typically has an economic root a rehab isn’t going to solve it, even if there’s addiction involved. And even if miraculously the rehab solves the addiction.

Economic programs would fare better imo. But then you will still have people engaging in it tonpay for medical school or jimmy choos or whatever.

Sugar Babies are a different (although still dangerous and immoral) beast entirely. Thats mainly for thots who aint ready to commit to either world....

 

[justjess]

Sugar Babies are a different (although still dangerous and immoral) beast entirely. Thats mainly for thots who aint ready to commit to either world....

It is still prostitution. Literally the text book definition of it. I don’t see how you can claim it’s different. It’s sex in exchange for money or other financial incentives.

 

[elsbet]

It is still prostitution. Literally the text book definition of it. I don’t see how you can claim it’s different. It’s sex in exchange for money or other financial incentives.

We presume, anyway.
That isn't against the law, apparently-- which is bizarre, but still a non-issue for this thread.

 

[justjess]

We presume, anyway.
That isn't against the law, apparently-- which is bizarre, but still a non-issue for this thread.

It isn’t “against the law” the same way escort services aren’t “against the law” - because they obfuscate what they actually are. But we look the other way... because the girls are clean, have their teeth, dress nicely, make decent money. Quite frankly that’s classist. And probably racist, I have the feeling if you look deeper into it the sugar babies have a higher proportion of white girls and the corner prostitutes a higher proportion of minorities.

Seriously think this through.

 

[elsbet]

It isn’t “against the law” the same way escort services aren’t “against the law” - because they obfuscate what they actually are. But we look the other way... because the girls are clean, have their teeth, dress nicely, make decent money. Quite frankly that’s classist. And probably racist, I have the feeling if you look deeper into it the sugar babies have a higher proportion of white girls and the corner prostitutes a higher proportion of minorities.

Seriously think this through.

Start a new thread.