No regard...for the desire of women

[Red Sky at Morning]

@Lisa

I will not reply extensively as I am sure you will agree that truth has nothing to fear from examination, and people are welcome to make up their own minds about any of us who post here.

We each have people within the “crowd of witnesses” of faith that we gravitate to. For you, I suspect you admire both John the Baptist and Elijah. You may relish that feeling of confronting the modern priests of Baal in righteous anger.

For me, I see great merit in the times we live of Paul’s address at Mars Hill. He is coming in contact with a culture that knows little of God, and makes connections with the literature the Greeks read and the society they lived in, in order to relate to that group of people.

There is a difference between relating and colluding. In the first case you have someone who is perhaps a stranger to you and a stranger to the gospel. The way you interact with others tells them something of what is in your heart. In the collusion case, you overstep the mark and take sides against the gospel in attacking the message.

I choose to relate to people and quote from a variety of sources, not because I think these sources on a level to the Bible but because they have echoes of that truth that people who may have dismissed the Bible might connect with.

You are welcome to carry on sharing the good news of Jesus whichever way the Holy Spirit leads you - and so will I*.

*Please forgive me if I don’t attempt to battle you over why I choose to relate to others the way I do. I will NOT be doing that. We are very different people with very different experiences. My own experience indicates that certain forms of confrontation solidify an opposing view in the person you are attacking. This old story develops the idea well.

 

[Haich]

Be careful lisa, you sound like ISIS 2.0.

 

[Haich]

Why can't someone be tolerant of other beliefs? How does that make them a 'weak' follower?

I think RedSky is quite British in his approach. He has a very tactful way of getting his point across and I get the impression, as a muslim, that he is very sincere yet mild in his propagation of Christianity.

I find Americans to be quite...passionate.

 

[Haich]

Also, JoChris is Austrailan from what I remember so her views on Islam and women don't surprise me.

Water off a duck's back

Must be so strenuous, copy and pasting hadith excerpts and taking them out of context. But it's what you do with the bible so, I guess it's a skill in which you are well-versed.

 

[Lisa]

My own experience indicates that certain forms of confrontation solidify an opposing view in the person you are attacking.

Sure...if they hated me they will hate you is a reality when sharing truth. But what you’re doing is wrong in that you are trying too hard to not offend. Tell the truth and sometimes that offends people whether you wanted it to or not. God is the one that saves..we are the ones that tell the truth.

I choose to relate to people and quote from a variety of sources, not because I think these sources on a level to the Bible but because they have echoes of that truth that people who may have dismissed the Bible might connect with.

You then take out the authority of the Bible when you give other things as truth. The truth is found in the Bible, give that as your authority.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Why can't someone be tolerant of other beliefs? How does that make them a 'weak' follower?

I think RedSky is quite British in his approach. He has a very tactful way of getting his point across and I get the impression, as a muslim, that he is very sincere yet mild in his propagation of Christianity.

I find Americans to be quite...passionate.

@Haich - I have teenagers - sometimes they are at a point when they will listen, sometimes they switch off in advance because they think they know what you are going to say. Getting ideas across the gulf of understanding is something the tactful parent and the confrontational parent both attempt. I actually don’t think there is a magic bullet in terms of communication as we are all different. Being genuine is always a good place to start, I guess...

 

[Venus]

Sorry Lisa, you sound like a scientologist... keeping scientology working.
Specialy point 7, 8 ,9, and 10. Just chage the work technology for bible and hubbard for god/jesus and that's how a cult fuction.

 

[Lisa]

Be careful lisa, you sound like ISIS 2.0.

And how is that specifically?

Why can't someone be tolerant of other beliefs? How does that make them a 'weak' follower?

Tolerant of someone else’s beliefs is one thing agreeing that that person’s beliefs are equal to the Bible ...or giving that impression, something else entirely.
Makes them weak in that they aren’t standing up for the whole truth.

I think RedSky is quite British in his approach. He has a very tactful way of getting his point across and I get the impression, as a muslim, that he is very sincere yet mild in his propagation of Christianity.

I find Americans to be quite...passionate.

And perhaps that is the difference..but I don’t think so.

 

[Lisa]

Sorry Lisa, you sound like a scientologist... keeping scientology working.
Specialy point 7, 8 ,9, and 10. Just chage the work technology for bible and hubbard for god/jesus and that's how a cult fuction.

Do I? Huh? I know of Scientology but I don’t know their workings.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Sure...if they hated me they will hate you is a reality when sharing truth. But what you’re doing is wrong in that you are trying too hard to not offend. Tell the truth and sometimes that offends people whether you wanted it to or not. God is the one that saves..we are the ones that tell the truth.

You then take out the authority of the Bible when you give other things as truth. The truth is found in the Bible, give that as your authority.

Lisa, I think you actively try to offend for some reason. Does the feeling of being hated reassure you that you must be preaching the gospel? People might just dislike being talked down to! I genuinely don’t understand your motivation.

You have spent a lot of effort openly attacking me for preaching the same gospel you also believe. Why not try to share something positive with others rather than this foolishness? I will not block you, but neither will I continue to trade blows with you.

 

[Lisa]

Lisa, I think you actively try to offend for some reason. Does the feeling of being hated reassure you that you must be preaching the gospel? People might just dislike being talked down to! I genuinely don’t understand your motivation.

You have spent a lot of effort openly attacking me for preaching the same gospel you also believe. Why not try to share something positive with others rather than this foolishness? I will not block you, but neither will I continue to trade blows with you.

What was it in my last post that you think you’re being talked down to? You are trying to hard not to offend aren’t you?

 

[Lisa]

@Red Sky at Morning do you see yourself as beyond reproach?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@Red Sky at Morning do you see yourself as beyond reproach?

Nobody is beyond reproach Lisa.

James 3:8-10 (KJV)

8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

 

[manama]

Also, JoChris is Austrailan from what I remember so her views on Islam and women don't surprise me.

Water off a duck's back

Must be so strenuous, copy and pasting hadith excerpts and taking them out of context. But it's what you do with the bible so, I guess it's a skill in which you are well-versed.

She doesn't even need to google them now. Can just scroll down on her old posts and repost them and hope everyone has forgotten that they went through it before. This is deja vu but on steroids.

 

[Haich]

And how is that specifically?




Tolerant of someone else’s beliefs is one thing agreeing that that person’s beliefs are equal to the Bible ...or giving that impression, something else entirely.
Makes them weak in that they aren’t standing up for the whole truth.


And perhaps that is the difference..but I don’t think so.

You sound very extreme. Your outlook on Muslims and anyone who doesn't agree with your take on Christianity is met with contempt.

If your bible and faith are so fantastic, go and preach to your neighbours. Go and actually enjoy your faith, help the needy, feed the poor and homeless and help out at local projects.

(In all honesty, I really shouldn't recommend that as you'd probably expect those people to convert to Christianity)

 

[Lisa]

You sound very extreme.

I do? As extreme as isis, is that what you meant, you never did say.

Your outlook on Muslims and anyone who doesn't agree with your take on Christianity is met with contempt.

I don’t look at you with contempt, it seems to be the other way around.

Go and actually enjoy your faith, help the needy, feed the poor and homeless and help out at local projects.

Is that what you think my faith is all about?

(In all honesty, I really shouldn't recommend that as you'd probably expect those people to convert to Christianity)

I don’t expect anyone to convert but I hope they will.

 

[Lisa]

Nobody is beyond reproach Lisa.

James 3:8-10 (KJV)

8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

So you believe yourself to be above reproach then...

 

[Haich]

I do? As extreme as isis, is that what you meant, you never did say.


I don’t look at you with contempt, it seems to be the other way around.


Is that what you think my faith is all about?


I don’t expect anyone to convert but I hope they will.

Yes, I said you're starting to sound as extreme as ISIS in your views. Have you seriously not reflected on some of the stuff you've said on these forums?

Or is Christianity exempt from extremism?

I pity you actually and I truly hope you find happiness.

I don't even think Christians know what their faith is about. Sorry to be blunt, I just genuinely don't get your faith and never will.
You all believe in different things so it's hard to determine what it is you're actually following.

So you're on VC to spread the word and hopefully convert someone? Odd motive but have fun doing so.

 

[Robin]

Hey @Lisa
"In psychology a person who has a martyr complex, sometimes associated with the term "victim complex", desires the feeling of being a martyr for their own sake, seeking out suffering or persecution because it either feeds a psychological need or a desire to avoid responsibility."

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

So you believe yourself to be above reproach then...

I guess you didn’t appreciate what I was saying Lisa -

Romans 3:23 (NKJV)

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Nobody is beyond reproach.

On this occasion you have accused me of motivations I do not hold as well as a whole litany of aspersions on my character. I have tried to respond to you with respect (as much as I have been able to) despite feeling deep offence due your continued attacks against me.

Let’s just stop it, shall we?

I am not your enemy. Certainly we have doctrinal differences, but wasting time on this sort of thing does nothing other than bringing Christianity into a negative light in front of people for whom Jesus died, and who look to us as examples of how Christians relate to one another.