Location of hell

[Lisa]

We don't need to fear him if we are saved.

Should we be afraid to disobey Him if we are Christians?

 

[Thunderian]

Should we be afraid to disobey Him if we are Christians?

The only people who need to be afraid of God are those who aren't saved. They should be terrified of him.

As far as believers are concerned, fear of God means respecting and obeying him. God won't hurt us, and we don't need to be afraid of him, ever.

 

[Lisa]

The only people who need to be afraid of God are those who aren't saved. They should be terrified of him.

As far as believers are concerned, fear of God means respecting and obeying him. God won't hurt us, and we don't need to be afraid of him, ever.

I think I you’re wrong about God not hurting us, honestly. He will hurt us for our own good, He will still be there but it will hurt.

Hebrews‬ ‭12:6‬ ‭
FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES.​

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It is doubtful whether God can bless a man greatly until He has hurt him deeply. —A.W. Tozer

 

[Thunderian]

I think I you’re wrong about God not hurting us, honestly. He will hurt us for our own good, He will still be there but it will hurt.

Hebrews‬ ‭12:6‬ ‭​

FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES.​

‭‭
It is doubtful whether God can bless a man greatly until He has hurt him deeply. —A.W. Tozer

You can be afraid of a hurtful God if you want to.

 

[Lisa]

You can be afraid of a hurtful God if you want to.

I am afraid to disobey Him because I don’t wan to walk in the wrong direction...though that probably has to do with my not believing the once saved always saved doctrine....

I have been hurt by God...I know what it feels like but I also know that not once afterward did He leave me and in fact made it known to me that He was there. Even though He was there...it still hurt.

 

[phipps]

@phipps, what do you make of the following passage in Isaiah?

Isa 66:23​

And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.​

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Isa 66:24​

And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.​

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This is going to be a long response especially for Isaiah 66:24.​

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I will start with Isaiah 66:23. If we read from Isaiah 66:22-23 the answer is in the actual scripture.​

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"“For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord."

In the new heavens and new earth, from new moon to another (one month to another) and from one Sabbath to another (every week on Sabbath) all the the righteous will worship before God.


As for Isaiah 66:24, we've got to compare scripture with scripture. Its not the only scripture that mentions immortal worms. Jesus mentions the same thing in Mark 9:47-48.

"And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire— where ‘Their worm does not die And the fire is not quenched.’"

Firstly, Jesus used the word "Gehenna" for the word "hell." It so happened that Gehenna was an actual place of burning just outside the walls of Jerusalem.

Secondly, Jesus was actually quoting Isaiah 66:24 that is why ‘Their worm does not die And the fire is not quenched.’ is in quotation marks.

The context in Isaiah refers to a time when, God says, "All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” (verse 23). It is a time when the wicked will be no more. What happened to them? In verse 24 we read that "And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.” Notice that the bodies affected by the worms are dead/corpses.These are not living people writhing in fire. When Jesus returns He will fight those who resist Him (Revelation 19:11-15). Those who are slain in the battle will not be buried; their bodies will be left on the ground, where scavenging birds and maggots will consume their flesh.

In the original Hebrew, "worm" meant worm, maggot or larvae according to the theological Wordbook of the Old Testament. Neither Isaiah nor Christ were talking about immortal worms. The maggots they spoke of, do not die because they turn into flies. The flies then lay eggs that hatch into more maggots (the larvae of flies), perpetuating the cycle.

This helps us to better understand Christ's words. In that time, when the bodies of dead or executed criminals were cast into the burning trash heap of Gehenna, those bodies were destroyed by maggots, by fires that were kept constantly burning there, or a combination of both. Historically a body that was not buried, but was subjected to burning, was viewed as accursed (Joshua 6:18; 7:11, 25).

What did Jesus mean in Mark 9:48 when He said, "...the fire is not quenched"? With the preceding background we can understand. He means simply the the fire will burn until the bodies of the wicked are consumed. This expression, used several times in scripture refers to fire that consumes entirely (Ezekiel 20:47). An unquenched fire is one that has not been extinguished. It burns itself out when it consumes everything and has no more combustible material to keep it going.

Some have interpreted the worm to be the soul. Is that what Jesus meant? Nowhere in the Bible is there any allusion to the soul as a worm. In this instance no doubt, Christ's listeners could see the smoke curling up from the Valley of Gehenna, where dead bodies and garbage were constantly being burned. If anything fell outside the destructive flames, it was quickly consumed by maggots or worms. With the vivid scenes of utter extinction before their eyes, Jesus used the Gehenna fire as an example of the complete destruction of hell-fire. The fire was never quenched, and the worms were constantly at work upon the bodies-a picture of total destruction.

This is in harmony with the Bible.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Why must we fear god?

Because, The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. And what knowledge do we gain? That God is LOVE, and there is no Fear in LOVE, For Perfect Love (God) Casteth out Fear. (1 John 4:18)

 

[phipps]

@Lisa, I've only seen this response now.
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She really needs to study prayerfully because you are off on this..

But Jesus says; luke‬ ‭12:5‬ But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He hs killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him! Are you gonna say it doesn’t mean what Jesus said too?

That verse is about Jesus telling us to have no fear of the physical death in this world. To have no fear of people who threaten or who can kill us physically. Rather we should have a healthy fear of God who can destroy our bodies and souls forever. We should recognise and respect that only He has the power of death not anyone else.

My answer to @Bellz was a general answer about not fearing God because of what He tells us about hell. God tells us about hell so we are aware of the consequences of the choices we make. However we should love God and if we do live our lives according to His precepts we should have hope of going to heaven and being with Him forever. Here are some verses to explain further what I mean.

“There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear” (1 John 4:18).

“For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, ‘Abba, Father’ ” (Romans 8:15).

“Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid” (John 14:27).

“For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind” (2 Timothy 1:7).

Aren’t you just cutting and pasting what someone else has said?

I do cut and paste but I cut and paste subjects I know of and have known of for years. I don't copy and paste willy nilly. Its because I'm not confident in writing so I prefer to cut and paste from sites that I read a lot from in my life. I am not doing anything wrong at all and I like it that way.

 

[Lisa]

Rather we should have a healthy fear of God who can destroy our bodies and souls forever. We should recognise and respect that only He has the power of death not anyone else.

Healthy fear? Really?

 

[Stephania]

This world is hell. We are in exile from God's kingdom, and Satan and all of the fallen angels are here too. One day, the world will be heaven, when God's people actually listen to Him. And when that day comes, the lake of fire is going to forever erase Satan and those associated with him, as well as unrepentant sinners.

 

[phipps]

Healthy fear? Really?

Yes, we are not supposed to be quaking in our boots worshipping God out of fear. That is not the kind of worship God wants. It doesn't stem from love. We have nothing to fear when we have God in our lives.

I will cut and paste something to add on this subject from amazingfacts.com.

In Revelation 14:7, we hear the first of the three angels' messages; it is a special admonition to "Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come."

We often understand the word "fear" in terms of terror—to be afraid. But the word used here as "fear" is the Greek phobeo (the root word of phobia.) It doesn't mean only to be afraid of something—like claustrophobia or some other phobia. This word also translates, according to Strong's, as "to be in awe of, to revere, to fear exceedingly and to reverence."

God is telling us that in the last days, the church is to teach the world to revere Him—to be in awe of their Creator. But to a great extent, the church has lost this attitude of reverence. Reverence is also defined as "a feeling of profound awe, respect, often love, veneration, honor." The Bible tells us that it does not come naturally to the proud, fallen hearts of man. Humans need to be taught reverence for sacred things. So let's address some areas where we as Christians can better demonstrate and express our reverence for God. Titus 2:1–7 says: "But as for you, speak the things which are proper for sound doctrine: that the older men be sober, reverent, temperate, sound in faith, in love, in patience; the older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior. … Likewise, exhort the young men to ... [show] integrity, reverence" (NKJV, emphasis added). It is obvious from these Scriptures that God wants us to be more reverent, more humble, and show more respect to Him and others.

 

[Lisa]

One day, the world will be heaven,

Where does the Bible say that?

 

[Lisa]

I will cut and paste something to add on this subject from amazingfacts.com.

Of course you will.

Yes, we are not supposed to be quaking in our boots worshipping God out of fear.

No doubt...but you have to admit it is a scary thought to think God can throw people into hell..and not just from a reverent pov.

 

[phipps]

This world is hell. We are in exile from God's kingdom, and Satan and all of the fallen angels are here too. One day, the world will be heaven, when God's people actually listen to Him. And when that day comes, the lake of fire is going to forever erase Satan and those associated with him, as well as unrepentant sinners.

This world is hell. We are in exile from God's kingdom, and Satan and all of the fallen angels are here too.

This world may be a sinful place where Satan and the fallen angels dwell, but it is definitely not hell yet. Hell will come later after the resurrection of the wicked, their judgement and then fire will rain down from heaven to destroy the wicked and Satan and all the fallen angels.

One day, the world will be heaven, when God's people actually listen to Him.

Yes one day the this world will be re-created to its former glory before sin came into this world and the righteous will leave here on earth as part of God's kingdom. This world won't be heaven though, it will be part of God's Kingdom.

Luke 11:2, "So He said to them, “When you pray, say: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven."

Luke 19:12, "Therefore He said: “A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return."

And since there won't be sin and it will be completely destroyed along with the wicked, the only ones who will be alive will be only those who listen to God.

And when that day comes, the lake of fire is going to forever erase Satan and those associated with him, as well as unrepentant sinners.

The lake of fire will be part of hell. Since hell and the rain raining down from heaven is what is going to create the lake of fire on this entire earth and yes, it will destroy Satan, all the fallen angels and the unrighteous. So the Bible says.

 

[Lisa]

This world may be a sinful place where Satan and the fallen angels dwell, but it is definitely not hell yet. Hell will come later after the resurrection of the wicked, their judgement and then fire will rain down from heaven to destroy the wicked and Satan and all the fallen angels.

It won’t be quite like that...but there is a hell. I think people will say that there is hell on earth during the tribulation though. Jesus tells us that it will be the worst time ever and never will be a time like it and if that time wasn’t cut short no life would be saved.

 

[phipps]

Of course you will.




No doubt...but you have to admit it is a scary thought to think God can throw people into hell..and not just from a reverent pov.

Its scary but we know why He is going to throw people in hell don't we? Hell was really meant only for Satan and the fallen angels. The Bible exists to help us understand with the help of the Holy Spirit to choose to follow Christ so we don't end up in hell. God does not want to destroy anyone but its up to us if we make the choice to follow Him or not. It will be very painful for God to lose His loved ones but sin has got to come to an end one day.

 

[phipps]

It won’t be quite like that...but there is a hell. I think people will say that there is hell on earth during the tribulation though. Jesus tells us that it will be the worst time ever and never will be a time like it and if that time wasn’t cut short no life would be saved.

It will be according to the Bible. Fire will rain down here on earth and the wicked will be burned and destroyed forever in the lake of fire. I choose to believe the Word of God and only the Word of God.

"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them." Revelation 20:7-9.

The tribulation will be horrible and many Christians are going to suffer a lot but it still won't be hell. Hell will be much much worse.

 

[Lisa]

Its scary but we know why He is going to throw people in hell don't we? Hell was really meant only for Satan and the fallen angels. The Bible exists to help us understand with the help of the Holy Spirit to choose to follow Christ so we don't end up in hell. God does not want to destroy anyone but its up to us if we make the choice to follow Him or not. It will be very painful for God to lose His loved ones but sin has got to come to an end one day.

So since it is scary...there is a real fear about what God can do to us.
Was hell only meant for satan? Did God decide to throw people in later, or was that always the plan?

 

[Lisa]

It will be according to the Bible. Fire will rain down here on earth and the wicked will be burned and destroyed forever in the lake of fire. I choose to believe the Word of God and only the Word of God.

"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them." Revelation 20:7-9.

The tribulation will be horrible and many Christians are going to suffer a lot but it still won't be hell. Hell will be much much worse.

The lake of fire doesn’t happen until after the white throne judgement. They are two separate events..

Revelation‬ ‭20:10-15‬ ‭
And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.​

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[phipps]

So since it is scary...there is a real fear about what God can do to us.
Was hell only meant for satan? Did God decide to throw people in later, or was that always the plan?

So since it is scary...there is a real fear about what God can do to us.

Only if you're disobedient. Why would you fear hell if you're on the right track. We should confess our sins and stay close to God and then we won't be thinking about hell continuously and the destruction that is going to take place there. We should have hope of going to God's Kingdom and living eternally.

Was hell only meant for satan? Did God decide to throw people in later, or was that always the plan?

I'll quote Jesus directly in response to this.

“Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41).