“Don’t force your help on people who are not willing to change”

[Todd]

I already posted why I wasn’t sure...

So you could have just said "No" right away when I asked then, right?

It didn’t look like discussion mode..

What does discussion mode look like? What about my statement after apologizing made you believe I was in fight mode. (I am asking so that I might learn how to come acorss as less offensive to others who may think like you)

 

[Todd]

Right, I knew there seemed something wrong with that. Love people unconditionally? Yes you ARE supposed to love people but uh.. I personally don't love people who work for satan/sellouts/satanists

So you think God has stopped loving them? Do you have no hope that satanists or sellouts could still be reconciled to God. What do you think could possibly trun then away from Satan and receive Christ? Preaching and telling them what they are doing is wrong?

I have a brother in-law who was a high priest in the satanist church. Today he is a bible believing Christian and a Pastor of a church. Do you think he became a Christian because someone who didn' t love him preached the word of God at him, or because someone showed him true unconditional love that he was not experiencing through serving Satan?

 

[Lisa]

So you could have just said "No" right away when I asked then, right?

[quote[
It didn’t look like discussion mode..

What does discussion mode look like? What about my statement after apologizing made you believe I was in fight mode. (I am asking so that I might learn how to come acorss as less offensive to others who may think like you)[/QUOTE]
I say, go reread what you wrote and learn from that.

 

[Eternal Salvation]

Lisa, Todd, Todd, Lisa...

Look I apologize for coming here. It feels like I started this somehow.

Many Christians will disagree with each other, and that's fine. The only true answer you'll both get is if you personally pray with the Holy Spirit. As you two are arguing, the Holy Spirit may be in the mist as you two speak.

Anyway, we can all start over. I don't want to witness 2 Christians turning cold on each other like God says in the last days, Christians will be lukewarm/turn cold against one another. Even though you guys are just having a conversation, it seems like it'll only get worse.

We can all talk to each other and judge in righteousness by each other's fruit. After all, Christians helping each other is a good way to go. I've had a lot of discipline from my parents and the Holy Spirit as well. It didn't feel good, but I was happy knowing that I'm disciplined.

Here's a verse: 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness."

Do these things with one another if you wish, but just make sure you completely have knowledge- not from yourselves, but from the Holy Spirit of certain verses before you correct each other. This here, is us still to this day, training in righteousness.

 

[Lisa]

Right, I knew there seemed something wrong with that. Love people unconditionally? Yes you ARE supposed to love people but uh.. I personally don't love people who work for satan/sellouts/satanists

I think you love people when you tell them the gospel doesn’t mean you agree with what they are doing.

 

[Lisa]

Lisa, Todd, Todd, Lisa...

Look I apologize for coming here. It feels like I started this somehow.

Many Christians will disagree with each other, and that's fine. The only true answer you'll both get is if you personally pray with the Holy Spirit. As you two are arguing, the Holy Spirit may be in the mist as you two speak.

Anyway, we can all start over. I don't want to witness 2 Christians turning cold on each other like God says in the last days, Christians will be lukewarm/turn cold against one another. Even though you guys are just having a conversation, it seems like it'll only get worse.

We can all talk to each other and judge in righteousness by each other's fruit. After all, Christians helping each other is a good way to go. I've had a lot of discipline from my parents and the Holy Spirit as well. It didn't feel good, but I was happy knowing that I'm disciplined.

Here's a verse: 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness."

Do these things with one another if you wish, but just make sure you completely have knowledge- not from yourselves, but from the Holy Spirit of certain verses before you correct each other. This here, is us still to this day, training in righteousness.

No, you didn’t start this..this is ongoing between Todd and I. We aren’t actually 2 Christians..he isn’t really a Christian anymore, he has a different gospel and that’s why we disagree. But, I thank you for your kind words.

 

[Eternal Salvation]

So you think God has stopped loving them? Do you have no hope that satanists or sellouts could still be reconciled to God. What do you think could possibly trun then away from Satan and receive Christ? Preaching and telling them what they are doing is wrong?

I have a brother in-law who was a high priest in the satanist church. Today he is a bible believing Christian and a Pastor of a church. Do you think he became a Christian because someone who didn' t love him preached the word of God at him, or because someone showed him true unconditional love that he was not experiencing through serving Satan?

Yes, satanists can still get saved but not EVERY satanist is what I'm trying to explain. I've seen many videos of satanists converting to Christianity.

However, you do realise not everyone is meant to be saved right? Some people are just not born of God, they're born wicked. Most satanists stay serving satan and celebrities are a VERY good example of that seeing as they alright signed their contracts in blood and are under mind control, being used as sex slaves and yet they still wanna damn peoples souls to hell. They don't care about God or their fans. They were just born wicked.

Anyways, it's good that your brother in law got out of satanism and into Christianity. We can only pray more get out, because I've commented multiple times on satanic books on social media about Jesus and you could only imagine the vile responses I've got back.

 

[Todd]

I don’t delight in telling you that you’ve fallen Todd. It actually makes me really sad.

And yet no matter how many times you tell me, it isn't really going to change anything is it? Why is that you only make those statements after you realize you can't win an argument with me? I'm just trying to understand the real motivation behind it. I have never once received a message or positive word of encouragement from you that would help me understand the love of God. So even if you were right and I was wrong, you have not done anything to effectively try to win me over.

Yes, the gospel you have is wrong Biblically, God does want to reconcile everyone to Himself but there are people that aren’t going to believe and they won’t get a second chance after they die.

You must be reading a different Bible then me then.

No, my God isn’t sadistic or vengeful, He doesn’t want anyone to perish but all to be saved..but its your choice.

If God were not sadistic and vengeful, why would he not just leave the wage of sin as death as he orginally stated in the Old Testemant. Instead he resurrects the lost so he can eternally torture them in hell? Yeah, that's not vengeful or sadisitc at all is it?

How are you unselfish? Lots of people genuinely care about others.

For starters I try to live by Matthew 25. Whenever God brings someone across my path in need, I do anything I can to help them including opening my home to them. My wife and I have spent numerous hours helping people in crisis mode help find solutions to their problems and bring real postive change to their lives. Many of them end up coming to God because of it.

I know there are lots of people who genuinely care about others. But having sympathy or pity for someone's problems is different than actually incoveniencing yourself to actually help them.

 

[justjess]

unconditional love doesnt mean agreeing with everything someone does. it means loving them anyway

 

[Lisa]

And yet no matter how many times you tell me, it isn't really going to change anything is it? Why is that you only make those statements after you realize you can't win an argument with me? I'm just trying to understand the real motivation behind it. I have never once received a message or positive word of encouragement from you that would help me understand the love of God. So even if you were right and I was wrong, you have not done anything to effectively try to win me over.


You must be reading a different Bible then me then.


If God were not sadistic and vengeful, why would he not just leave the wage of sin as death as he orginally stated in the Old Testemant. Instead he resurrects the lost so he can eternally torture them in hell? Yeah, that's not vengeful or sadisitc at all is it?


For starters I try to live by Matthew 25. Whenever God brings someone across my path in need, I do anything I can to help them including opening my home to them. My wife and I have spent numerous hours helping people in crisis mode help find solutions to their problems and bring real postive change to their lives. Many of them end up coming to God because of it.

I know there are lots of people who genuinely care about others. But having sympathy or pity for someone's problems is different than actually incoveniencing yourself to actually help them.

Do I actually lose the argument? I just realize that no matter what I say, scripture is correct.

Must be...

I don’t know what you want me to say..that I think God is vengeful because He has a punishment for sinners and its not the party in hell everyone is hoping for?


Who are you talking about in the last sentence?

 

[Todd]

However, you do realise not everyone is meant to be saved right? Some people are just not born of God, they're born wicked.

No, sorry I don't agree with that.

 

[Lisa]

unconditional love doesnt mean agreeing with everything someone does. it means loving them anyway

Isn’t that agreeing with them?

 

[Todd]

Do I actually lose the argument? I just realize that no matter what I say, scripture is correct.

Well when I make rational and logical points and you have no answer for them other than regurgitating traditions of men and the church, then yes that is actually loosing the argument.

I don’t know what you want me to say..that I think God is vengeful because He has a punishment for sinners and its not the party in hell everyone is hoping for?

I want you to realize that the pagan tradition of eternal torment is not biblical and that a loving God would never punish without the motivation of correction and redemption.

Who are you talking about in the last sentence?

Not you. I don't know anything about your personal life so I don't know if it applies to you or not.

 

[Todd]

Isn’t that agreeing with them?

No

 

[justjess]

Isn’t that agreeing with them?

No lol not even close

 

[Eternal Salvation]

No, sorry I don't agree with that.

Okay, but a lot of people are going to hell. Here's the verse:

Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction and many enter through it. (14) But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life and only a few find it."

This is because the majority of the world love being greedy, love lying, love drugs, love porn, love fornication, love adultery, love evil, full of pride, etc etc.

If you can't accept that God will have his angels bind the unbelieving by hand and foot and cast them into outer darkness, then something must be wrong with you. God is loving, yes but guess what? One of satan's lies is that God is so loving that everyone will go to heaven. No, that's a lie.

Do you really panic at the thought of someone going to hell? Are you one of those people who just HAVE to have someone believe in the Gospel? In the end, it's their fault not Gods. You have no reason to be against the fact God does that because no sinner is allowed in heaven. It's a fair judgment. God is a fair merciful God. But he sure ain't gonna allow no wicked unbeliever in heaven.

 

[Todd]

Okay, but a lot of people are going to hell. Here's the verse:

Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction and many enter through it. (14) But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life and only a few find it."

This is because the majority of the world love being greedy, love lying, love drugs, love porn, love fornication, love adultery, love evil, full of pride, etc etc.

If you can't accept that God will have his angels bind the unbelieving by hand and foot and cast them into outer darkness, then something must be wrong with you. God is loving, yes but guess what? One of satan's lies is that God is so loving that everyone will go to heaven. No, that's a lie.

Do you really panic at the thought of someone going to hell? Are you one of those people who just HAVE to have someone believe in the Gospel? In the end, it's their fault not Gods. You have no reason to be against the fact God does that because no sinner is allowed in heaven. It's a fair judgment. God is a fair merciful God. But he sure ain't gonna allow no wicked unbeliever in heaven.

You can search my posts for all the biblical proof that hell is not a place of eternal torment. The lake of fire, whether you believe it to be literal fire or symbolic, is a place of correction and purification. Fire in the bible always symbolizes or represents the purification of God. I do agree that "no wicked unbeliever" is going to be in heaven. None of us are going to be in heaven for eternity anyways. The city of Zion is going to descend from heaven and reside on the new earth.

The word translated "eternal" in our English bibles really means "of the ages". In Revelation the believers, aka the saints of God, are the city of God/Zion that descends from heaven to the new earth. Revelation says the gates of the city are always open and that the saints of God call out to the thirsty to come and drink from the rivers of living water flowing from the city. The saints will be calling out to those coming out of the purification process in the Lake of Fire. It also says that the saints will use the leaves from the trees that are growing along the river to heal the nations. Who are the saints healing if not those coming out of the Lake of Fire?

It is God's desire that all men be saved and reconciled to him. Anyone who thinks that any man's indiviudal will is greater than God's will is a fool. God will have his way in the ages to come.

the pagan myth of hell as a place of eternal torment and suffering with no purpose, is an affront to the loving character of God. Yes God is also a God of justice, but anyone who thinks infinite torment is a just punishement for sin commited in this temporal finite world has a perverted sense of justice. Rest assured the time each unbeliever spends in the Lake of Fire in the ages to come will be commensurate to the life they lived and the sin they committed during this temproal age we live in now. Justice will be served, but it's not the gross perverted sense of justice that the Church stole from the pagans.

 

[Colonel Valerio]

You can search my posts for all the biblical proof that hell is not a place of eternal torment. The lake of fire, whether you believe it to be literal fire or symbolic, is a place of correction and purification. Fire in the bible always symbolizes or represents the purification of God. I do agree that "no wicked unbeliever" is going to be in heaven. None of us are going to be in heaven for eternity anyways. The city of Zion is going to descend from heaven and reside on the new earth.

The word translated "eternal" in our English bibles really means "of the ages". In Revelation the believers, aka the saints of God, are the city of God/Zion that descends from heaven to the new earth. Revelation says the gates of the city are always open and that the saints of God call out to the thirsty to come and drink from the rivers of living water flowing from the city. The saints will be calling out to those coming out of the purification process in the Lake of Fire. It also says that the saints will use the leaves from the trees that are growing along the rive to heal the nations. Who are the saints healing if not those coming out of the Lake of Fire?

It is God's desire that all men be saved and reconciled to him. Anyone who thinks that any man's indiviudal will is greater than God's will is a fool. God will have his way in the ages to come.

the pagan myth of hell as a place of eternal torment and suffering with no purpose, is an affront to the loving character of God. Yes God is also a God of justice, but anyone who thinks infinite torment is a just punishement for sin commited in this temporal finite world has a perverted sense of justice. Rest assured the time each unbeliever spends in the Lake of Fire in the ages to come will be commensurate to the life they lived and the sin they committed during this temproal age we live in now. Justice will be served, but it's not the gross perverted sense of justice that the Church stole from the pagans.

This is why you have a moral interpretation of Christianity. It is impossible to reconcile a God who punishes for eternity for what is done in 70 years with any idea of love of morality.

I think “God” whatever that is above our limited concept of justice. Those of us who do truly monstrous things are either born with a switch off in the brain or are products of unfortunate environments, or both. Either way it’s hard to justify senseless eternal torture for souls that if “created” are consciously put into the circumstances that shape them.

 

[Eternal Salvation]

You can search my posts for all the biblical proof that hell is not a place of eternal torment. The lake of fire, whether you believe it to be literal fire or symbolic, is a place of correction and purification. Fire in the bible always symbolizes or represents the purification of God. I do agree that "no wicked unbeliever" is going to be in heaven. None of us are going to be in heaven for eternity anyways. The city of Zion is going to descend from heaven and reside on the new earth.

The word translated "eternal" in our English bibles really means "of the ages". In Revelation the believers, aka the saints of God, are the city of God/Zion that descends from heaven to the new earth. Revelation says the gates of the city are always open and that the saints of God call out to the thirsty to come and drink from the rivers of living water flowing from the city. The saints will be calling out to those coming out of the purification process in the Lake of Fire. It also says that the saints will use the leaves from the trees that are growing along the rive to heal the nations. Who are the saints healing if not those coming out of the Lake of Fire?

It is God's desire that all men be saved and reconciled to him. Anyone who thinks that any man's indiviudal will is greater than God's will is a fool. God will have his way in the ages to come.

the pagan myth of hell as a place of eternal torment and suffering with no purpose, is an affront to the loving character of God. Yes God is also a God of justice, but anyone who thinks infinite torment is a just punishement for sin commited in this temporal finite world has a perverted sense of justice. Rest assured the time each unbeliever spends in the Lake of Fire in the ages to come will be commensurate to the life they lived and the sin they committed during this temproal age we live in now. Justice will be served, but it's not the gross perverted sense of justice that the Church stole from the pagans.

God's dwelling place IS in heaven. So yes, we will be in heaven UNTIL Jesus comes back as a conquering king to slay the wicked and then the Holy City will come unto earth, and that's where we will be meanwhile. Then we will go back to heaven to take part of judging the others. You do know that Judgment Day is after the 1,000 years right?

Because during that time, satan will be bound and afterwards, he will be loose to deceive the nation's and they will circle around the city until fire comes down from God out of heaven to devour them. And that's going to happen to everyone who's OUTSIDE the city. Then Judgment Day occurs. We will take part of judging people. God specifically tells us who's going to be cast into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. After that happens, God will remake heaven and earth and we will dwell on the new earth and possibly the new heaven and we will spend eternity there.

Whilst satan and the wicked spend eternity in the lake of fire. No one comes out of the lake of fire, that's why we are in a spiritual war in the category of "Saved souls" and "Damned souls" "Heaven" or "The lake of fire" You either accept God or accept satan. Taking place as we speak and will definitely be more serious when he tries to enforce the mark on people.

Once you go to the lake of fire that is your everlasting punishment, that's why Jesus says "For God so loved the world that he sent his one and only son that whoever believes in him will NOT perish but have everlasting life", so aside from God's people, everyone else will take part in hell because they chose to live life according to THEIR way.

The only second chance you get is during the tribulation but you would have to be beheaded for not taking the mark.

 

[Lisa]

This is why you have a moral interpretation of Christianity.

It’s just not the correct interpretation.