A few questions open to all Christians on this forum

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, darkly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

I look forward to GCB’s response but perhaps he had that in mind?

It certainly is childish and indeed dangerous to view the Bible as literal truths, both historically and scientific. To insist on such only discredits it.

Your thinking is on the mark but I had a more direct quote in mind. Please see it above.

Let me add that the prophets themselves did not think much of other prophets.

Isaiah 56:11) "They are shepherds who have no understanding; They have all turned to their own way, each on to his unjust gain, to the last one" But do not despair, for the day of judgment is at hand, for the day of judgment and the day of the LORD occupy the same time frame. All the dross will be burned away. (Zech 13:9) & (Malachi 3:3). In that day, "you will distinguish between the righteous and the wicked" (Malachi 3:18)

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Wow! Thanks for that well thought out and deeply insightful response. It really moved me and gave me a lot to contemplate. This is precisely the type of discussion I come to this forum to participate in. LOL!

I see no rebuttal so thanks for your agreement.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

I'd be more inclined to heed your advice if your use of descriptions like "foul prick of a demiurge" didn't make it sound like you had a deliberate vendetta AGAINST the Christian God you don't seem to believe in.

If you are not disappointed with so called moral Christians who idol worshiping a genocidal son murdering prick of a god, --- while calling that moral monster good, --- then you are not worth the air you waste.

Regards
DL

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

You know I need never lie as the truth kills Christianity and Islam.

Hebrews 6 King James Version; 1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Regards
DL

You continue to misunderstand this passage!!!

I believe you read it something like “let us forget about Christian dogma and instead move on to a personal pursuit of perfection (or perhaps apotheosis?)

What seems far more clear to me is that the Hebrews should have had the ABCs of the faith so firmly established that they should be able to move on to more advanced thinking (that was nonetheless based on those fundamental building blocks).

The essential nature of maturity.

1. (1a) Going beyond the basics.

Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection,

a. Therefore: The writer rebuked his readers for their spiritual immaturity but he knew that nothing was gained by treating them as immature. He continued with his instruction and warnings.

b. Elementary principles: This has the idea of “rudiments” or “ABCs.” They are basic building blocks that are necessary, but must be built upon – otherwise has only a foundation and no structure.

c. Perfection: This is the ancient Greek word teleiotes, which is much better understood as “maturity.” The writer to the Hebrews did say that we can reach perfection on this side of eternity, but that we can and should reach a place of maturity in Jesus. The call is plain: let us go on to perfection.

i. “Teleiotes does not imply complete knowledge but a certain maturity in the Christian faith.” (Barclay)

https://enduringword.com/bible-commentary/hebrews-6/

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

I'd be more inclined to heed your advice if your use of descriptions like "foul prick of a demiurge" didn't make it sound like you had a deliberate vendetta AGAINST the Christian God you don't seem to believe in.

Robin.

Why do you seem to favor a religion that grew through inquisitions and murder and that has become a backwards thinking homophobic and misogynous religion?

What do you lie about such an immoral religion?

Regards
DL

 

[Robin]

If you are not disappointed with so called moral Christians who idol worshiping a genocidal son murdering prick of a god, --- while calling that moral monster good, --- then you are not worth the air you waste.

Regards
DL

All I'm saying is your overtly biased rationale kind of defeats the purpose of starting a thread like this. The intention of a forum should be to discuss different points of view which is why I posed the question in the first place. If people offer their perspectives I am willing to hear it. What I won't do is invalidate my own argument and opinion by silencing any avenue of rebuttal and answers with petty insults. Coming into a "debate" with ridiculously stringent beliefs wrapped in animosity and dictating to others what their moral standards are by your measures doesn't exactly make for a productive discussion (especially when said debate just seems to be circular). It just encourages more hollow replies.

 

[Robin]

Robin.

Why do you seem to favor a religion that grew through inquisitions and murder and that has become a backwards thinking homophobic and misogynous religion?

What do you lie about such an immoral religion?

Regards
DL

Bishop.

Why do you not allow people to find their own path without leading them down yours with a verbal shotgun pressed to the back of their skulls, ready to assassinate their character and validity if their beliefs are not aligned with yours? As with any faith or creed, people investigating for themselves should lead them to their own conclusions about the morality and validity of that faith. This would be true for not only Christianity, but Gnosticism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. Why do you get to dictate what those outcomes should be instead of letting people undergo the process organically and finding out for themselves? Surely you wouldn't want to be just as tyrannial as the God you despise by deciding on behalf of other people what conclusion their soul searching should lead to?

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

You continue to misunderstand this passage!!!

You continue to ignore what the bible says.

Jesus was an esoteric ecumenist and that passage shows the wisdom in being one.

If you tried it, you would see just how big of a demiurge Yahweh is.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

All I'm saying is your overtly biased rationale kind of defeats the purpose of starting a thread like this. The intention of a forum should be to discuss different points of view which is why I posed the question in the first place. If people offer their perspectives I am willing to hear it. What I won't do is invalidate my own argument and opinion by silencing any avenue of rebuttal and answers with petty insults. Coming into a "debate" with ridiculously stringent beliefs wrapped in animosity and dictating to others what their moral standards are by your measures doesn't exactly make for a productive discussion (especially when said debate just seems to be circular). It just encourages more hollow replies.

I do not mind showing that I see Yahweh as a really big prick to his brain and morally dead minds of his followers.

Killing when a cure is available is what Yahweh does.
I will let inferior religious thinkers like Christians think that killing is better than curing.

I call immorality, immorality. What do you call it?

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Why do you not allow people to find their own path without leading them down yours with a verbal shotgun pressed to the back of their skulls, ready to assassinate their character and validity if their beliefs are not aligned with yours?

Christians used inquisitions and murder, yet you dislike that I use arguments.

Christians continue to use homophobia and misogyny to create lower classes of humans.

You go ahead and think that moral all you like. I will call that foul spade a spade.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Why do you get to dictate what those outcomes should be instead of letting people undergo the process organically and finding out for themselves?

Are you living by the Golden Rule the way I do?

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Gen3;22 Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil;

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Need I say more?

Regards
DL

 

[Robin]

I do not mind showing that I see Yahweh as a really big prick to his brain and morally dead minds of his followers.

Killing when a cure is available is what Yahweh does.
I will let inferior religious thinkers like Christians think that killing is better than curing.

I call immorality, immorality. What do you call it?

Regards
DL

Christians used inquisitions and murder, yet you dislike that I use arguments.

Christians continue to use homophobia and misogyny to create lower classes of humans.

You go ahead and think that moral all you like. I will call that foul spade a spade.

Regards
DL

I've seen some of your posts before when lurking. I know that this is your modus operandi -you obfuscate the arguments of your verbal sparring partners and refuse to acknowledge when they offer any sort of detailed, well-researched rebuttal in favour of your already preselected interpretations. Then you change the goal posts, hold their morality hostage. I opened this thread with an open mind and so far most of the posts have been amicable and friendly. None of the Christians responding have exhibited any symptoms of being either morally or intellectually stunted, which is why I am listening to what they have to say.
It's funny, you remind me of another rendition of those snakes in the pulpit, the ones that threaten unbelievers with eternal torment and sell the gospel for a buck. You're the same when it comes to interaction with anyone who doesn't agree with your chosen set of beliefs -you make devil's out of them without honesty, place them under your conditions. You, similarly to them, also seem to disregard deeper investigation and introspection and instead expect others to believe on your personal version of truth because YOU SAY SO. Your avatar suits you well.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

I've seen some of your posts before when lurking. I know that this is your modus operandi -you obfuscate the arguments of your verbal sparring partners and refuse to acknowledge when they offer any sort of detailed, well-research rebuttal in favour of your already preselected interpretations. Then you change the goal posts, hold their morality hostage. I opened this thread with an open mind and so far most of the posts have been amicable and friendly. None of the Christians responding have exhibited any symptoms of being either morally or intellectually stunted, which is why I am listening to what they have to say.
It's funny, you remind me of another rendition of those snakes in the pulpit, the ones that threaten unbelievers with eternal torment and sell the gospel for a buck. You're the same when it comes to interaction with anyone who doesn't agree with your chosen set of beliefs -you make devil's out of them without honesty, place them under your conditions. You, similarly to them, also seem to disregard deeper investigation and introspection and instead expect others to believe on your personal version of truth because YOU SAY SO. Your avatar suits you well.

Indeed.
As you can see, the serpent is well spoken of in scriptures.

Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Genesis 3 ;3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made.

when they offer any sort of detailed, well-research rebuttal

LOL.

Let me know the next time you see one of those really rare occurrences.

You might have noted how often I ask for one of those constantly from the poor apologists here and always go wanting.

Even here, I ask for why you promote a vile ideology and you cannot answer.

You might wonder why.

Regards
DL

 

[Robin]

Matthew 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

You missed a spot.

LOL.

Let me know the next time you see one of those really rare occurrences.

Oh I've seen a few. I wouldn't have started this thread if I hadn't. There are several here even, some of which I believe you simply shut down with an unsubstantiated claim or repeated insult. Again.

You might have noted how often I ask for one of those constantly from the poor apologists here and always go wanting.

I have and I've also seen some good responses on their part and poor counters on yours based largely on the aforementioned technique you use to "dismantle" their arguments. I assume people would get tired of having to repeat themselves a million different ways.
Don't get me wrong, I was perfectly aware of how poor some apologist explanations are for issues I've had with this faith hence why I came here in the first place -I was unsatisfied.

Even here, I ask for why you promote a vile ideology and you cannot answer.

You might wonder why.


Regards
DL

Nah.

I'm not promoting any ideology other than seeking the truth. That will lead me wherever it will lead me, I haven't even defended Christianity at all, just the arguments I've been presented with because I have actually been presented with responses to my questions that are at least deserving of some exploration -not propaganda questioning my world views because of a handful of forum comments.

Bishop, the hellfire and brimstone wailers didn't stop me from searching for truth.

Neither will you.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

unsubstantiated claim or repeated insult.

You are a liar. I proudly substantiate what I put.

technique you use to "dismantle" their arguments.

Yes. Rather good isn't it?

It makes the apologists look as foolish and inept as they are.

Regards
DL

 

[elsbet]

Wow! Thanks for that well thought out and deeply insightful response. It really moved me and gave me a lot to contemplate. This is precisely the type of discussion I come to this forum to participate in. LOL!

Spoiler

Nicely done, @Todd

That is concise. Christianity basically teaches: god first neglected the whole world (didn't send them messengers, guidance, words of comfort, reassurances, laws, life essentials) then he neglected his own people.

I'm always amazed at the amount of noobs that show up in these threads. Membership skyrockets (and then dies, along with the thread, until a new one is created).

 

[Robin]

You are a liar. I proudly substantiate what I put.

Fantasy.



Regards

DL

I see no rebuttal so thanks for your agreement.

Regards
DL

Hmm . . .

Yes. Rather good isn't it?

It makes the apologists look as foolish and inept as they are.

Regards
DL

I see no rebuttal so thanks for your agreement.

Regards
DL

Hmm . . .

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Hmm . . .




Hmm . . .

Hmm indeed.

Now you are replying like a theist.

Shame on you for thinking your foolishness hides your lack of a moral sense.

Regards
DL

 

[Colonel Valerio]

Your thinking is on the mark but I had a more direct quote in mind. Please see it above.

Let me add that the prophets themselves did not think much of other prophets.

Isaiah 56:11) "They are shepherds who have no understanding; They have all turned to their own way, each on to his unjust gain, to the last one" But do not despair, for the day of judgment is at hand, for the day of judgment and the day of the LORD occupy the same time frame. All the dross will be burned away. (Zech 13:9) & (Malachi 3:3). In that day, "you will distinguish between the righteous and the wicked" (Malachi 3:18)

Regards
DL

“The first priest was the first rogue who met the first fool”

-Voltaire

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Hmm . . .




Hmm . . .

Would it perhaps be more correct to say that @Gnostic Christian Bishop clearly believes his approach to be persuasive?

He might naturally find approval from other people who have an antipathy toward the God of the Bible but that is not really the same as making a compelling argument in its own right.