Can I use Nugget again now? LOL :D

[King David]

Shalom!

Okay Christians time to get your encyclopedias, oops I mean your iPhone's out...

Because I was asked nicely...

Here are some verses from Saul's "New Testament" that he ripped from Plato, Aristotle and Aeschylus. I got these from a youtube video called "Why I now reject the New Testament" on Joel's channel. I believe Joel got them from a book called "Caesar's Messiah." I have yet to read the book, but it is on my target list.

Which one of you will have the courage to watch the entire video??

Philippians 3:19 - Plato's "Republic"
Galatians 6:8 - Plato's "Phaedo"
Galatians 5:23 - Aristotle; unspecified book (please research on your own).
1 Corinthians 9:24 - Plato; unspecified book (please research on your own).
Philippians 1:21 - Plato; unspecified book (please research on your own).
1 Thessalonians 5:15 - Plato; unspecified book (please research on your own).
Acts 26:14 - Aeschylus "Agamemnon"

Shalom!

 

[EddieG305]

Everytime I read the word "nugget" I keep wanting some McDeez chicken nuggets. Now those are golden nuggets of truth! haha. {Although I do feel guilty for knowing that food is garbage.}

 

[JoChris]

Paul was writing to churches of GENTILES - non-JEWS. It makes perfect sense to write using phrases etc. the converts might be familiar with already.
Genuine question: Can you please explain how you concluded that the apostle who said that he was the apostle to the GENTILES should still have written his letters as if they were Jews*?

P.S. I thank you for your politeness to those who disagree with you. It is a refreshing change to see.
--
*a religion the Gentiles were unlikely to know much about, if at all

 

[King David]

Paul was writing to churches of GENTILES - non-JEWS. It makes perfect sense to write using phrases etc. the converts might be familiar with already.
Genuine question: Can you please explain how you concluded that the apostle who said that he was the apostle to the GENTILES should still have written his letters as if they were Jews*?

P.S. I thank you for your politeness to those who disagree with you. It is a refreshing change to see.
--
*a religion the Gentiles were unlikely to know much about, if at all

That is the same argument I heard the last time I brought this up to a brainwashed Christian. That would be like Yahuwah quoting from the book of Baal to all His children that went astray during the time of Elijah.

Did He do that? No, He gathered them all together and destroyed them - 1 Kings 18.

Shalom

 

[JoChris]

Que? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+kings+18&version=KJV
The prophets that served Baal were destroyed.

39 And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The Lord, he is the God; the Lord, he is the God.
Verse 40 And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there.

Are you reading the same Old Testament as the one on Biblegateway?

 

[King David]

Que? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+kings+18&version=KJV
The prophets that served Baal were destroyed.

39 And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The Lord, he is the God; the Lord, he is the God.
Verse 40 And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there.

Are you reading the same Old Testament as the one on Biblegateway?

And who do you suppose comprised the prophets of Baal? They were Israelites under King Ahab who turned to idolatry and went astray, just like you...

 

[King David]

Que? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+kings+18&version=KJV
The prophets that served Baal were destroyed.

39 And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The Lord, he is the God; the Lord, he is the God.
Verse 40 And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there.

Are you reading the same Old Testament as the one on Biblegateway?

Btw, were you complimenting Me on being gentle a few threads back? If so, I appreciate that. Thank you.

But honestly I haven't felt much from you... I caught what you wrote after I got fired up with some wrath. You really don't want to get on My wrath side friend. Start listening and lets try to approach this with some kindness, sound good?

 

[JoChris]

I am no longer an old-school Roman Catholic. Therefore I certainly cannot be accused of literal idolatry as you claim.

Read verse 39 - the Israelites REPENTED, they returned to God. God then had mercy upon them.
The prophets of Baal did not repent, so God commanded Elijah to kill them. Basic mid-primary school reading comprehension should make that obvious to people who are carefully reading the text.

You are completely wrong, but you sound very sincere. I respect that.

 

[King David]

I am no longer an old-school Roman Catholic. Therefore I certainly cannot be accused of literal idolatry as you claim.

Read verse 39 - the Israelites REPENTED, they returned to God. God then had mercy upon them.
The prophets of Baal did not repent, so God commanded Elijah to kill them. Basic mid-primary school reading comprehension should make that obvious to people who are carefully reading the text.

Please listen, if you worship Jesus you are an idolator. It's that simple. Read Deut 16:21-22 that declares the cross and any pillar like it an abomination. Christians are Catholics... They celebrate the same holidays and worship the same god. They are just on the perimeter, because they don't worship Mary and the rest of the Saints. But that's Satan's plan: to bring them all under one roof. It's called Ecumenism and those who do not follow Michael, will either follow the Pope or be outcast in the deserts somewhere...

 

[rainerann]

You need to specify the books if you are going to make these claims. You just destroyed your own argument suggesting that people research to find which one of Aristotle's many books Paul was inspired by to write one verse from the book of Galatians. It is just an absurd expectation to place on your audience.

 

[rainerann]

Only three verse out of seven can you give a specific book to investigate; however, not one of your references include a direct quote of any kind. This is an absurd claim you are making that you are clearly unable to directly support in any legitimate way.

 

[King David]

I am no longer an old-school Roman Catholic. Therefore I certainly cannot be accused of literal idolatry as you claim.

Read verse 39 - the Israelites REPENTED, they returned to God. God then had mercy upon them.
The prophets of Baal did not repent, so God commanded Elijah to kill them. Basic mid-primary school reading comprehension should make that obvious to people who are carefully reading the text.

You are completely wrong, but you sound very sincere. I respect that.

Now read Galatians 3:13... Paul calls the cross a tree.

 

[King David]

You need to specify the books if you are going to make these claims. You just destroyed your own argument suggesting that people research to find which one of Aristotle's many books Paul was inspired by to write one verse from the book of Galatians. It is just an absurd expectation to place on your audience.

That post was really done out of a favor for someone being nice. I wasn't 100% prepared to deliver that, I just wanted to meet someone half way, since they were kind in their post to me. You may want to consider trying some of that for a change.

What I've also learned is that sometimes people need to discover the truth on their own...

 

[Thunderian]

Shalom!

Okay Christians time to get your encyclopedias, oops I mean your iPhone's out...

Because I was asked nicely...

Here are some verses from Saul's "New Testament" that he ripped from Plato, Aristotle and Aeschylus. I got these from a youtube video called "Why I now reject the New Testament" on Joel's channel. I believe Joel got them from a book called "Caesar's Messiah." I have yet to read the book, but it is on my target list.

Which one of you will have the courage to watch the entire video??

Philippians 3:19 - Plato's "Republic"
Galatians 6:8 - Plato's "Phaedo"
Galatians 5:23 - Aristotle; unspecified book (please research on your own).
1 Corinthians 9:24 - Plato; unspecified book (please research on your own).
Philippians 1:21 - Plato; unspecified book (please research on your own).
1 Thessalonians 5:15 - Plato; unspecified book (please research on your own).
Acts 26:14 - Aeschylus "Agamemnon"

Shalom!

So your argument is a list of things we need to find on our own, from a video you won't post the link to, based on a book you haven't read. Real compelling, mind-blowing stuff you're posting here.

I was hoping you would quote the scripture Paul wrote, with a side by side comparison with the works of Plato and Aristotle you say he plagiarized.

Because, and you would know this if you were at all familiar with the subject you keep posting on, Paul did reference Greek philosophers and this is pretty well known. What he didn't do was plagiarize, or promote their ideas. It's a lie to say so, and it's easily proven to be so when you actually read the words of Paul.

Here's a quote from another source to illustrate what I mean:

Paul quoted Menander in the book of Acts, Menander in 1 Corinthians, and Epimenides in the book of Titus. Let's take a look.

• Acts 17:28, "for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.'"
  • "The first part of verse 28 comes from Cretica by Epimenides, and the second part of the verse from Hymn to Zeus, written by the Cilician poet Aratus. To be sure, both of these lines were directed at Zeus in Greek literature, but Paul applied them to the Creator of whom he spoke."
  • Paul quoted "the first half of the fifth line, word for word, of an astronomical poem of Aratus, a Greek countryman of the apostle, and his predecessor by about three centuries. But, as he hints, the same sentiment is to be found in other Greek poets. They meant it doubtless in a pantheistic sense; but the truth which it expresses the apostle turns to his own purpose—to teach a pure, personal, spiritual Theism."

This is just more evidence that you are out of your depth.

 

[JoChris]

Please listen, if you worship Jesus you are an idolator. It's that simple. Read Deut 16:21-22 that declares the cross and any pillar like it an abomination. Christians are Catholics... They celebrate the same holidays and worship the same god. They are just on the perimeter, because they don't worship Mary and the rest of the Saints. But that's Satan's plan: to bring them all under one roof. It's called Ecumenism and those who do not follow Michael, will either follow the Pope or be outcast in the deserts somewhere...

Deuteronomy 16:21 Thou shalt not plant thee a grove of any trees near unto the altar of the Lord thy God, which thou shalt make thee. 22 Neither shalt thou set thee up any image; which the Lord thy God hateth.

I don't know of any churches constructing altars in groves - do you?
The cross is not an image. The cross was a physical object used to kill people for alleged crimes. Big difference.

I know it's somewhat controversial, but no Roman Catholicism is not Christianity. Roman Catholics can be Christians BUT that is despite the Church NOT because of it. If they read the bible enough they will experience cognitive dissonance.
They will ask themselves "Do I believe the bible first or Roman Catholic doctrine first?" Roman Catholic doctrine has added so much to original Christian doctrine it is like the Curtain Fig tree**. The host tree is strangled by the epiphyte tree which grows over it and eventually kills it. The epiphyte tree is what the observer sees. The corpse of the original tree decays underneath.

Ecumenicism - I agree with you there. Many churches have fallen for the Roman Catholic church's propaganda that all churches must be united as a good witness to the non-believing outside world. That sounds frighteningly similar to the One World Church.
----
** I actually climbed a fair way up this one in primary school. Boy it was scary climbing down!!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtain_Fig_Tree

 

[King David]

So your argument is a list of things we need to find on our own, from a video you won't post the link to, based on a book you haven't read. Real compelling, mind-blowing stuff you're posting here.

I was hoping you would quote the scripture Paul wrote, with a side by side comparison with the works of Plato and Aristotle you say he plagiarized.

Because, and you would know this if you were at all familiar with the subject you keep posting on, Paul did reference Greek philosophers and this is pretty well known. What he didn't do was plagiarize, or promote their ideas. It's a lie to say so, and it's easily proven to be so when you actually read the words of Paul.

Here's a quote from another source to illustrate what I mean:

Paul quoted Menander in the book of Acts, Menander in 1 Corinthians, and Epimenides in the book of Titus. Let's take a look.

• Acts 17:28, "for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.'"
  • "The first part of verse 28 comes from Cretica by Epimenides, and the second part of the verse from Hymn to Zeus, written by the Cilician poet Aratus. To be sure, both of these lines were directed at Zeus in Greek literature, but Paul applied them to the Creator of whom he spoke."
  • Paul quoted "the first half of the fifth line, word for word, of an astronomical poem of Aratus, a Greek countryman of the apostle, and his predecessor by about three centuries. But, as he hints, the same sentiment is to be found in other Greek poets. They meant it doubtless in a pantheistic sense; but the truth which it expresses the apostle turns to his own purpose—to teach a pure, personal, spiritual Theism."

This is just more evidence that you are out of your depth.

So I try to be nice and release some information from a dusty notebook and you upstage Me...

You are overlooking the fact that Saul got his doctrine from pagans. Do you think Yahuwah would use a hymn to Zeus to instruct His people? Let me tell you, He would not!

 

[King David]

Deuteronomy 16:21 Thou shalt not plant thee a grove of any trees near unto the altar of the Lord thy God, which thou shalt make thee. 22 Neither shalt thou set thee up any image; which the Lord thy God hateth.

I don't know of any churches constructing altars in groves - do you?
The cross is not an image. The cross was a physical object used to kill people for alleged crimes. Big difference.

I know it's somewhat controversial, but no Roman Catholicism is not Christianity. Roman Catholics can be Christians BUT that is despite the Church NOT because of it. If they read the bible enough they will experience cognitive dissonance.
They will ask themselves "Do I believe the bible first or Roman Catholic doctrine first?" Roman Catholic doctrine has added so much to original Christian doctrine it is like the Curtain Fig tree**. The host tree is strangled by the epiphyte tree which grows over it and eventually kills it. The epiphyte tree is what the observer sees. The corpse of the original tree decays underneath.

Ecumenicism - I agree with you there. Many churches have fallen for the Roman Catholic church's propaganda that all churches must be united as a good witness to the non-believing outside world. That sounds frighteningly similar to the One World Church.
----
** I actually climbed a fair way up this one in primary school. Boy it was scary climbing down!!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtain_Fig_Tree

I know you're proud of you KJV translation, but here's a case where it shows it is in error. The Hebrew is translated as "Tree" in the Tanakh, and monument, not image. It is also translated as a "pillar" in other versions. The word "Image" is vague and it was done on purpose.

 

[JoChris]

Now read Galatians 3:13... Paul calls the cross a tree.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Note next verse:
Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Jesus was the sacrifice for our sins, the Lamb of God for our sins. His death also followed the pattern of the goat in the Old Testament - remember? He was sacrificed OUTSIDE the city as commanded to Moses and Aaron. He was crucified at Golgotha, the place called the Skull, in between two thieves (verse 22). See whole passage https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mark+15&version=KJV

Prophecy about Messiah:
Isaiah 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

 

[King David]

Deuteronomy 16:21 Thou shalt not plant thee a grove of any trees near unto the altar of the Lord thy God, which thou shalt make thee. 22 Neither shalt thou set thee up any image; which the Lord thy God hateth.

I don't know of any churches constructing altars in groves - do you?
The cross is not an image. The cross was a physical object used to kill people for alleged crimes. Big difference.

I know it's somewhat controversial, but no Roman Catholicism is not Christianity. Roman Catholics can be Christians BUT that is despite the Church NOT because of it. If they read the bible enough they will experience cognitive dissonance.
They will ask themselves "Do I believe the bible first or Roman Catholic doctrine first?" Roman Catholic doctrine has added so much to original Christian doctrine it is like the Curtain Fig tree**. The host tree is strangled by the epiphyte tree which grows over it and eventually kills it. The epiphyte tree is what the observer sees. The corpse of the original tree decays underneath.

Ecumenicism - I agree with you there. Many churches have fallen for the Roman Catholic church's propaganda that all churches must be united as a good witness to the non-believing outside world. That sounds frighteningly similar to the One World Church.
----
** I actually climbed a fair way up this one in primary school. Boy it was scary climbing down!!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtain_Fig_Tree

After reading the New Testament again with unblinded eyes I finally realized that Saul was the in essence the first Black Pope. His letters are actually assassination orders in many cases to "silence" the opposition who supported the Law of Elohim.

The next time you read it try to make yourself aware of his arrogance "I paul, an apostle of Christ! Appointed by God! Master of the Universe etc etc.." It's rather ridiculous. Then try to catch how many times he contradicts himself in the same chapter. It's amazing.

He even tells the reader to great Caesar's family in Phil 4:22... Caesar became the Pope and Paul was starting the Catholic church. The other doctrines of Thomas and Mary just didn't make the Catholic Cannon, because they didn't sell as well...

 

[JoChris]

I know you're proud of you KJV translation, but here's a case where it shows it is in error. The Hebrew is translated as "Tree" in the Tanakh, and monument, not image. It is also translated as a "pillar" in other versions. The word "Image" is vague and it was done on purpose.

New Testament was not written in Hebrew. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_of_the_New_Testament

As for the other entry, I don't understand how this understanding of yours came independently of the bible. Can you explain the source of this revelation? Was there anything different occurring that may have altered your spiritual consciousness?

That question is a genuine one. There are many different explanations that non-religious people construct, varying from mystical ones to biological ones. How can you be sure that it was from a Higher Being?

P.S. I'll be back much later, so other biblically minded people reading please step in!