well what else am I supposed to say?
IDK maybe try and rebut my position in an intelligent manner rather than derp and cussing? Clearly we are not going to agree, and clearly we are not going to cause the other to reject their Religion and "switch sides". The point, at least for me, of this forum is to give those who are not committed to either side the information that I believe is true as opposed to the information presented I dont agree with, and then they can make up their own minds.
This ignorant response of derp or cussing in hopes that that conveys that my positions are somehow wrong is not an intelligent debate, for someone who continually speaks of themselves as a master of logic and intelligence I would expect a bit more from you. I take the time to respond in detail as to why I reject your beliefs and arguments, your immediate response is cussing and derps, to each their own but I am quite sure those who read what I have wrote and what you responded will be able to discern which of us was better able to convey their points...
Don't accuse me of believing in a moon God when you know full well I don't..
You label yourself as a follower of Muhammad, regardless of your personal opinion it is very clear to anyone who studies Islam from a Historical and Non Islamic Bias, that Muhammad took a Pagan God that his ancestors worshiped, which was/is a Moon god, and then caused the rest of Arabia to worship that god as opposed to their many other gods, upon threat of death, violence and extortion.
What I can tell you, is that you do not follow the God of Israel, the God of Abraham, the God of Issac, the God of Jacob or Jesus, if you did you would be able to discern and understand that Muhammad is a False Prophet who worships a False god.
and all in response to my point that the trinitarian doctrine is Roman/pagan in its design.
Because you make an asinine assertion about me following or being a Pagan while in the midst of trying to endorse Muhammad who again clearly worships a different god than that of the God of Israel, which Historically was known as a Moon god. So I am simply calling out your blatant hypocrisy.
What I find funny is that you say you believe in the trinity yet Jesus himself in John 16 relegated the status of the holy spirit as less than himself just as he repeated his own status"the son can do nothing except by the Father"
"It is the Father in me"
Yet somehow that makes the son AND the holy spirit co equals with the Father in Godhead?
don't make me laugh.
And what I find funny is your inability to understand the dynamic clearly laid out in Scriptures that straight up show that Jesus IS God, the whole I and the Father are one is a blatant example. Or how about you saying you think Paul and Islam agree then reject Christs Divinity when Paul writes:
Phil 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Paul says He is the form of God, aka God in the Flesh and Jesus stated He was equal with God.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Paul also says Christ is the visible image of God, aka God in the Flesh, and that Jesus is the Creator and Sustainer of all things. Do you not believe that God is the Creator and Sustainer of all things? Of course only God possess these attributes however Paul writes that Christ possess these attributes.
I could of course give more Scripture that shows us that the Bible teaches that Jesus Christ is God in the Flesh but that is plenty to establish that Jesus according to the Scriptures stated He was God and Paul affirms it. So regardless of any of your personal opinions this aspect doesnt align with either your views or definitely with Islams teachings, and again you decided to jump in here trying to make assertions that Islam and Christianity is compatible and that Muhammad is a Prophet of the same God as Jesus.
So unless you are willing to state Jesus is God in Flesh and Muhammad was wrong, your assertions are incorrect. This again is the bases of the Trinity Doctrine, how can God be in Heaven and how can God also be Jesus Christ. We can discuss the Holy Spirit if you would like, but again the simple explanation is the Holy Spirit posses attributes that only God can posses and He is called in Scripture as being the same as Christ in Spirit.
I also have given proof apart from Scripture that shows that this ideology was NOT created by Roman or the Catholic Church, you of course have no rebuttal for the fact that the Church 100's of years before the RCC existed was making statements concerning the Trinity. Not only that Scripture states they are one, but of course to deny this is to deny a major point you would like to make, which is that Muhammad possessed the Scriptures and they were NOT corrupted when he had them. Either Scriptures havent been tampered with and the Trinity is correct, or Scriptures have been tampered with and Muhammad didnt posses Scripture that was correct. Can not have both....
1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
2 Cor 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
2 Cor 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.
And as I stated the Didache shows that the Church was following the formula of the Father Son and Holy Spirit 100's of years before the RCC existed. So you can either agree with the Scriptures or state they are corrupt, there really isnt any way around it, so at some point you have to reject the thesis you originally stated here...
notice i'm not attacking the bible or authentic christianity, but the roman doctrine? that is what 'contradicts the bible', something you seem to be obsessed with pointing out about another religion but can't look at your own self
I definitely have looked into the claims, and I reject your ideology, I have shown you the Scriptures that actually support the Trinity as opposed to contradict it. To reject that Jesus is God or that the Holy Spirit is God is to contradict clear Scripture, you reject the Bible and its Doctrine, which is quite alright, its just silly to keep proclaiming you believe and or follow the Bible when you dont...
isn't the process of transmission through people/a person? Or does the holy spirit just speak?
These are not the questions you stated at all, you made the assertion that Muhammad is the Comforter which of course Scripture rejects and tells us clear as day that the Holy Spirit is the Comforter. It really is quite simple, either the Holy Spirit is the Comforter or Muhammad is. You want to make this ridiculous assertion that in no way complies with the Scripture.
Again I dont care if you want to reject Scripture to believe the lie that Muhammad somehow fulfills the idea of being the Comforter, thats fine and dandy. The problem I have is you saying you agree with the Scriptures then make assertions that very obviously contradict the Bible. Muhammad can not be the Comforter, the Bible say plain as day the Holy Spirit is the one who is the Comforter. I can address your illogical logic you are using in hopes to get around the Scripture but at the end of the day, what you say doesnt matter because literally anyone with the slightest ability to read and comprehend English can see that Scripture says:
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
So you ask does the Holy Spirit just speak? What does Scripture say?
Acts 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,
7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.
Acts 20:22 And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there:
23 Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me.
So Scripture is clear that the Holy Spirit speaks, so you can either accept or reject what Scripture says about that.
you actually missed the point. "He will guide to to the whole truth" "He will tell you what is to come". When did this happen?
It happened just as Jesus said it would, when the Apostles and then everyone else that gets Born Again receives the Holy Spirit.
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
And if you understood the Prophecies surrounding this you would understand the fulfillment of it via the Holy Spirit just as the Scriptures state, it has to do with that whole New Covenant thing that Muhammad never mentions or Islam has anything to do with:
Ez 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
So when you understand the Prophecies concerning the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures that confirm them then it is clear that it is the Holy Spirit that comes and teaches us all things so that we wont need be taught of others for all who are Born Again know Him from the least the greatest. It all has to do with being Born Again, a concept that you dont truly understand as we have argued that point before and your ideology is apart from Scripture.
The Comforter has come and when you are Born Again the Holy Spirit directs you into all Truth and Understanding, and He also speaks to you. If you were to get Born Again you would understand personally what I am telling you, but until then you will be in a land of confusion as you try in vain to explain away what every Christian testifies to you concerning hearing from the Spirit and being Born Again...
It is a person inspired by the holy spirit through whom this would be revealed. That's why Jesus said 'unless I go away' ie this person would come after Jesus.
Again you argument completely ignores the out right Scripture that states that the Holy Spirit IS the Comforter and it literally say SPIRIT of Truth even in what you quote. How are you seriously this dense?
And Pentecost is the fulfillment of what Christ meant, when did Pentecost happen? Before or after He Ascended? Again if you read Scripture this was predicted:
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Everything revolves around the Holy Spirit of God, this idea that it means a human being is absurd, all the context of the verses show it can NOT be a Human Being:
John 14;17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Did Muhammad dwell with the Disciples? Did Muhammad dwell in the Disciples? Of course not to say such a thing is absurd. However did the Holy Spirit dwell with the Disciples? Yes of course He did. Did the Holy Spirit dwell IN the Disciples? Yes as Scriptures state over and over. Again you have to contradict the Scriptures to believe that the Comforter is anyone or anything else besides Muhammad and I am losing more and more respect for your intelligence that you even argue and make such absurd claims when Scripture is direct in answering the question...
By the time Mohammad came, the christians were following the trinitarian doctrine.
Wrong Scripture and Paul teach it, and History shows Christians following it since the inception of the Church, you can keep lying all you want but it doesnt change the fact that Christians always have believed in the concept of the Trinity...
That didn't happen with christianity post-ascension.
Seriously? SMH you literally have no comprehension of the Holy Spirit, it is hard for you to discern I am sure because you have yet to have the Holy Spirit dwell in you, but if you DID have the Holy Spirit dwell in you, you would know for sure what it means that He will come and reprove the World of Sin, Righteousness and Judgement.
If you ever came under Conviction of the Holy Spirit you would get it, but apparently you havent. Ask every Christian here if they have been reproved of their Sins, Righteousness and Judgement. All of us can tell you without a doubt that the Holy Spirit convicts us, He shows us our Sins and causes an actual feeling that truly cant be described within your soul to push you towards Repentance. He teaches and shows us about Righteousness and Judgement.
I guess it is too difficult for you to grasp
No I grasp what you wish things were to say, I reject your thesis and stick with the Scriptures that definitively state over and over that the Holy Spirit is the Comforter and who directs people to Christ (which Muhammad NEVER does, NEVER can you find the Gospel mentioned in the Quran) and convicts people of their Sins, and was with the Disciples at the time of Jesus and was inside of them after they left and fulfills all the Prophecies concerning the New Covenant, ect ect ect. But hey you can disregard all of this and the massive implications it has upon fulfillment of Prophecy (which I dont think you understand at all) and believe it has something to do with a guy that rejects Christ 700 yrs later, whatever floats your boat...
These same verses also prove the trinitarian doctrine is wrong, since you claim to believe the holy spirit is fully God. If it is fully God, then why does it say this?
He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears,
Because they all work together, I explained it, you either dont read what I write or have reading comprehension problems.
in my version, the holy spirit revealed the revelation and law to Mohammad.
Yes your version, aka your own personal made up Religion which literally has 1 adherent, you, alone, on an island, trying to convert everyone to your personal made up Religion. Guess what no one cares about your version or what your personal interpretations are about everything, that is why Muslims reject you and Christians reject you, because you are not either or adhere to the Doctrines.
me: the parable of tenants
you: kingdom of God/heaven...
“For the Kingdom of Heaven is like unto a man that is a householder, who went out early in the morning to hire laborers into his vineyard.
Jerusalem symbolises the kingdom of heaven within. Isaiah 5 told us the vineyard was Jerusalem.
I explained it, if you dont want to accept it sure no problem, you are entitled to your wrong opinion. The Parable is speaking about who inherits the "Vineyard" do you really think that Israel is the ultimate fulfillment of this? Of course not, in fact, Israel didnt exist for 1000's of years. If you can not discern between the use of a Literal Parable to speak to a Spiritual Reality then so be it. Again if you truly understood Scripture you would realize that Israel itself, Jerusalem itself, all of it is Shadows and Types of Heavenly Things.
Israel/the Jews were the inheritors of the Promise of God and the Kingdom of God, hopefully you wont argue against that. Therefore we ought to try and understand the SPIRITUAL Realities of the Heavens that Christ is trying to bring across when He speaks in these Parables. According to Scripture Israel and everything associated with Israel are a Reflection of Heavenly/Spiritual Things:
Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
So straight up Paul is saying outright that Abraham went to seek a country, which of course Physically and Literally was what, Israel. However Paul rightly shows that the REAL Country that they were seeking was what Israel REPRESENTS which is a Heavenly "Country" and the City that God has prepared for them. Again this is blatant Scripture, Israel represent the Kingdom of God/Heaven, the Vineyard is the same thing, the Jews were the "caretakers" of Israel aka the Heavenly Kingdom, God sent them Prophets, they killed them, He sent them His Son and they killed Him and therefore the Kingdom has been taken from them and given to the Gentiles.
Gabriel didn't reveal his name until the uncle-in-law of Mohammad told him it was Gabriel (implying that this means it was satan)
Nope, I am implying that Gabriel in Scripture doesnt act how that unnamed Angel acted towards Muhammad. One aspect is that in Scripture Gabriel IDENTIFIES/is IDENTIFIED:
Luke 1:26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
Dan 8:16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.
Luke 1:19 And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.
Mohammad didn't belong to a prophetic tradition himself, so how would he know who that is?
Well if it was Gabriel then either he himself would have identified himself as such, or God would have explicitly told him so, just as God did in Scripture.But this Angel didnt and thus Muhammad had to be told by some other person who of course could NOT make that determination for him. And then the method according to Islam in which they "tested" to see if this was Gabriel is just insanity, I am sure you know the story.
Isma`il b. Abu Hakim, a freedman of the family of al-Zubayr, told me on Khadija's authority that she said to the apostle of God, 'O son of my uncle, are you able to tell me about your visitant, when he comes to you?" He replied that he could, and she asked him to tell her when he came. So when Gabriel came to him, as he was wont, the apostle said to Khadija, 'This is Gabriel who has just come to me.' `Get up, O son of my uncle,' she said, `and sit by my left thigh.' The apostle did so, and she said, `Can you see him?' `Yes,' he said. She said, `Then turn around and sit on my right thigh.' He did so, and she said, `Can you see him?' When he said that he could she asked him to move and sit in her lap. When he had done this she again asked if he could see him, and when he said yes, she disclosed her form and cast aside her veil while the apostle was sitting in her lap. Then she said, `Can you see him?' And he replied, `No.' She said, `O son of my uncle, rejoice and be of good heart, by God he is an angel and not a satan.' (Ibn Ishaq, The Life of Muhammad, tr. Guillaume, 1967, p. 107)
If people cant understand what this passage is saying, it is saying that essentially Khadijah flashed herself, aka showed the Spirit her privates to see if it was of God. Since Muhammad couldnt see the Spirit when she was revealing her nakedness to it, this somehow means its an Angel of God.
Seems a rather insane and over the top way for these people to determine if this is an Angel of God or not, which is NOT how the Angels of God, specifically Gabriel acts according to Scripture. IF it was Gabriel he would have identified himself and there would not have been a need for Muhammads wife to flash the Spirit to determine if its of God or not. Again contradiction to how the Bible states Gabriel interacted with people...
of course christians historically claimed that it was a 'scary' experience therefore it had to be satan.
However the wondeful thing about the bible is it exposes your bs...it gives us precise examples of when people (eg Daniel) was terrified upon seeing Gabriel.
So again its not that Muhammad was scared it was how the Angel acted towards him which is completely differently than how the Real Gabriel interacted with people as recorded in Scriptures.
I agree Daniel was terrified, but how did Gabriel react to his fear?
Dan 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.
What does Gabriel do to Daniel? He touches him and sets him upright. He helps him and stands him up, he eases his fear. How does Gabriel react to other people who see him?
Luke 1:12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.
13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
Luke 1:29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
Each time Gabriel is recorded coming upon a person for the first time it shows they are stricken with fear, however Gabriel knows this and each time his reaction is to somehow comfort or assure them everything will be okay. So we see 2 very clear things that take place each time that Gabriel comes to people in the Bible, he is identified by God or identifies himself and he comforts, helps or assures those he visits knowing that they are afraid.
Neither of these actions are found in the encounter that Muhammad had with the Spirit that came to him. I dont feel like finding the quotes but you and I both know that this Spirit essentially crushes him telling him to write, does it 3 times. It never identifies himself and in the end leave Muhammad completely mad.
Muhammad was so stricken with fear and insanity that he was suicidal, his relatives had to talk him down from killing himself and that leads us to the lets get naked in front of the Spirit that is harassing Muhammad in hopes of determining if its from God or not. It was his family and NOT the Spirit or God Himself that was trying to ease Muhammads fear. None of this matches at all with the Gabriel of the Bible.
Now of course I dont expect you to accept these blatant differences as showing the reality that Muhammad was meeting with a Demon, but it is rather clear to me that he was, and of course the biggest and most determining factor in all of this is the message that Demon gave to Muhammad vs what Gabriel is recorded in saying in Scriptures mainly:
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Gabriel tells Mary that her son Jesus shall be called the SON OF GOD, however the Demon that came upon Muhammad told him:
Sura 17:11 And say: Praise be to Allah, Who hath not taken unto Himself a son, and Who hath no partner in the Sovereignty, nor hath He any protecting friend through dependence. And magnify Him with all magnificence.
And I can list about half a dozen or more Suras that all state over and over that God doesnt have a Son, which again massive contradiction to the Bible.
So it is clear to anyone who reads the Bible and the Quran and the accounts given of how Gabriel acts and how the Spirit that came to Muhammad acts and the differences in the declarations Gabriel gives vs Muhammads Spirit, that there is absolutely no way that they are the same being. And the Word of God tells us exactly what to do when someone or something comes along and contradicts the Scriptures and the Gospel:
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
I dont care what kind of twisting and ignoring of clear Scriptures you want to do, but that Spirit that came to Muhammad preaches a different Gospel than the one found in the Bible and preached by Paul, there it and Muhammad are accursed, period...
if anything, im sure satan would come offering temptation. Aren't there people who worship 'lucifer' saying he comes to them as a 'beautiful angel in his true form'?
Lol are you kidding me? Look at what happened to Muhammad, this Spirit literally offered him the WORLD. He went from an idiot nobody who cant read or write to literally becoming untouchable and able to murder r*pe and pillage everyone and everything around him. He became the absolute most powerful person in his life and area, all the while committing horrible atrocities that directly go against everything that God and Jesus taught.
You want to look at that man thru rose colored glasses, because I dont worship him I see him for exactly who he is as revealed not only in the Islamic Text but Historical Records. Muhammad was a murderous warlord who killed, raped and stole from everyone around him. The traitor even turned on his own freaking tribe and people once he amassed enough power, he his despicable and one of the most evil humans ever to walk the face of the planet. He has destroyed the world with his Antichrist War Mongering False Religion.
The Scripture says you will know them by their fruits, well Muhammad's fruits prove exactly who it was that he met in that cave that night, it wasnt Gabriel it was either Satan himself or a Demon doing the bidding of Satan. There hasnt been devised a Religion so centrally built around specifically rejecting the Gospel of Jesus Christ as Islam. No matter what garbage you bring about your made up Religion, Islam as practiced and understood by all Muslims throughout all of History 100% is set to destroy and reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
The Gospel that states that all men are due Death and Hell because of our Sins (Islam rejects this). That men can not at all ever hope to make Atonement for their Sins ( Islam rejects this) and therefore we need a Savior, someone who can take upon Himself our Sins to make that Atonement ( Islam specifically rejects the idea of another person making atonement for someone else) That God came as man in the Flesh ( Islam rejects this) by the Father sending His Son Jesus ( Islam rejects this) who then died on the Cross ( Islam rejects this no matter what you and your made up Religion states) and that the Blood of Christ by Faith thru Grace Alone ( Islam rejects Salvation by Grace thru Faith, it is 100% a works based crap shoot as to who gets into Heaven) is the only possible way one can receive Salvation (Islam rejects this, instead inserting that one must believe that Allah HAS NO SON and believe that Muhammad is his Prophet along with other works for Salvation and zero to do with the Blood of Christ) and that Jesus Christ Resurrected on the 3rd day (Islam rejects this) and then ascended to the Right Hand of the Father where He is continually making intercession for those who believe (Islam rejects this).
Everything the Spirit commanded Muhammad to write is specifically created to reject the Gospel of Christ and specifically created to damn everyone who believes it straight to Hell. And it is so heart breaking that the Descendants of Abraham have been so deceived and have chosen to worship and believe in such a lie that they reject the Savior that died and bleed for their Salvation. Satan pinpointed Abrahams original (land of Ur) and future descendants (Arabs) and has led billions of them straight to Hell.
All of this is why I know that Spirit isnt Gabriel so dont try and act like I take this based on superficial nonsense or havent investigated it all thoroughly, I have and have dozens of reasons for knowing Muhammad wasnt visited by Gabriel.
You didn't delve deeper on the promise given to Ismael and it's implications. if the beasts of Daniel became great empires...how much more is a 'great nation' blessed by God?
I explained what great meant in context, it was the mass of it. Any Prophecy or anything related to Ishmael all ended once the 12 Princes were established, there is literally nothing else mentioned about him or his linage in the rest of the Bible, his impact ended there. Everything revolves around Issac from that point forward.
Anything you want to speak about Ishmael past the 12 Princes is straight up conjecture and nothing specified in the Bible, according to Scripture hes no longer relevant. Now it is no wonder that Satan would use and go after that linage, what a perfect place to rise up a Religion diametrically opposed to Issac and the Promise and Seed of Abraham aka Christ! There was already clearly tension between the two since the inception of the children and of course Ishmael is the product of unfaithfulness in God.
I mean even Paul understands the position of Ishmael and Issac:
Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
And so it continues today those born of the Flesh and descended from Ishmael the child of bondage continues to persecute them that are born of the Spirit, the descendants of Isaac, the child of freedom. So you dont freak out this isnt just about Physical it is about the Spiritual aspects. Islam the Spiritual successor of Ishmael persecutes the Spiritual successor of Issac which is Christianity. There is nothing good written about Ishmael point blank period...
it is poor to dissect posts and seperate each argument, when you group them together, it makes perfect sense how it fits in with islam.
No it is intelligent to dissect each aspect so we can dig deeper past the superficial similarities and see if the things you state about Islam and Christianity being congruent with one another is true. Of course as I keep showing others, when we get into the details it reveals to us that there is absolutely no way that Islam and Christianity are compatible. There is no way that Muhammad and his god and the Sprint that came to him is the same God of the Bible.
And the fact is as long as we continue a dialogue around these things I will continue to dissect all of your arguments and reveal to all the Truth, which is that your made up Religion and assertions are incorrect and 100% at odds with the Bible and even at times at odds with the Quran...
You really shouldn't be coming up with baseless attacks to promote your own religion. i wouldnt accuse a sikh of worshipping idols for example, i would have to talk to a sikh on the merits of their own beliefs and explain why they're wrong and why islam is right.
Are you kidding me? You are the one that brought up I am a Pagan Worshiper and then get your panties in a bunch when I show you to be a hypocrite that follows a Rapist Thieving Ped0phile who worshiped a Moon God and here you are again being a blatant hypocrite. If you dont want me to go in on your Moon God worshiping False Prophet then dont try and lob the "You are a Pagan" garbage at me...
See, Paul compared faith with works by talking about how the Patriarchs were 'reckoned by faith' eg before the law of Moses was revealed.
in that sense, the gentiles post-ascension were akin to the patriarchs, living under 'faith'.
But what changed? why did God see fit to reveal the law of Moses after the israelites were already under faith?
it's because after the israelites lived in egypt, they became paganised....and thus the 'truth' on which this grace/faith was built upon, was lost.
It's the same with gentiles/christianity...once it became the religion of Rome, it became paganised and after that, no more 'grace'.
The faith christians lived under cannot exist when you have derp beliefs.
you know, the trinitarian doctrine contradicting the hell out of the NT.
being a 'light for gentiles' never closed the door on any future prophet/revelation since John 16 itself was a confirmation of a future revelation.
"he will speak only what he hears"
that is how revelation works mate.
I have explained this, the Law was given to show people their Sin, look at how Israel was acting from the second they got out of Egypt. They were complaining and immediately LOST FAITH because they actually didnt HAVE any and turned from God. So God said well yall dont even get it so here is the Law so you can understand your Sin and need for ATONEMENT and regain the FAITH you dont have.
Why was Israel kept out of the Promise Land for 40 years?
Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
All who came out of Egypt except 2 were kept out and it wasnt because of ANY other reason than the fact they had no Faith, the had unbelief. Can I understand what you are trying to get at? Yes I can see what you are trying to say, however I dont agree with you in the aspect that one the Law was given because they were Pagan, it was given to show Sin, they didnt comprehend their Sin properly. THAT is Scripture:
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Two of course I wholly disagree with your idea that anything in Biblical Christianity is Pagan including the Trinity which you dont even seem to want to speak about the arguments I have actually made concerning it.
Three this idea the Muhammad came to "put us back under Law" because that entire ideology conflicts so incredibly much with Scripture that is CAN NOT BE RECONCILED. Look JUST at the verse given above, the Law was added UNTIL the Seed should come, aka UNTIL Jesus Christ came, at which point Jesus FULFILLED the LAW and nailed it to the Cross.
You really dont seem to comprehend the massive and overarching impact your assertion about Muhammad makes on everything the Bible states.
You are not able to grasp the damage that it would cause to the Scriptures Prophecies concerning the Covenant to have Muhammad come and try and put people back under Law. It would destroy everything Paul writes in Galatians and Romans concerning the Law and its Relationship to Christ. You dont comprehend the WORK Christ has done to live up to and therefore FULFILL the Law and remove it out of our way if you are making the case that Muhammad was to come and place us back under the Law. You dont get that you undo EVERYTHING Christ came to do for us, and at this point would have to show us where in Scripture someone would come and institute a THIRD Covenant, this time one back under Law.
I mean the far reaching affects of what you are proposing are to literally make out EVERYONE in the Bible to be liars, from God, to Abraham, to David, to the Prophets, to Jesus the Apostles and Paul, all of them are wrong about literally everything. And that of course bring us back full circle, there is literally ZERO WAY that you can believe and accept Islam as written and practiced throughout all of its History by 99.99% of all Muslims and STILL believe and say that what the Bible records is True.
And as I keep showing even in your made up Religion, there is ZERO WAY that the Bible can be correct as written and still maintain what you believe, you just can not comprehend it apparently, but trust me every single Christian that reads this, when they get to this part (actually way sooner, as in the second they read your ideologies) will be able to recognize the massive implications made upon the Scriptures if what you stated was even remotely true and agree that it is impossible to have the Bible remain True and have your ideologies be True at the same time...
Finally, the verse I quoted 100% closed the Door on any further Prophets, either Jesus is telling the Truth or Jesus is a liar, or the Scriptures are compromised, you pick:
Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
The Prophets ended at John/Jesus period...
As for calling him a paedo. the shia hated aisha and accused her of adultery. The abbasids ruled persia and appointed persian scholars (imam bukhari, muslim, tirmindi etc) to compile hadith favourable to their own rule. Thus they countered the shia version by making aisha into a child bride.
Stop it, stop making excuses for this pedo, Islam emulates him to this day raping children after his tradition. This is a proven fact, Muhammad married a 6yr old and raped her at 9. If this WASNT something he did then there wouldnt be billions upon billions of Muslims who have and still do marry children and r*pe them. Do you really want to debate me that Islam as a whole practices this sick tradition?
How about Islam makes up its mind concerning this! If it was untrue then again why are there billions of Muslims raping children throughout its History? Why is it so incredibly easy to find Imams that teach this as a fact and encourage it? I will go with the fact that a huge massive % if Muslims either agree or outright practice it, along with the Imams who teach it and then finally believe THEM when they all say their Holy Text state such things, as opposed to you who is trying desperately to reject it because well even you know there is something massively wrong with following a person that says they are a Prophet of God that is raping children especially when you are in the midst of having a debate with someone trying to make the argument that Islam and Muhammad and Christianity and the Bible are compatible.
Muhammad raping kids vs Jesus:
Matt 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Muhammad and everyone of the rest of these sick child raping Muslims following in his footsteps deserve a millstone hanged around their neck and drowned in the depth of the sea according to Jesus, but yeah Muhammad is the guy on the heels of Jesus as Prophet, sure...
i'm in a better position than you because i regard both sides.
No you are not in a better position, you twist and reject and make up things to get these two completely opposite Religions and Faiths to be merged because you need to for your made up Religion. I am in the best position to see the Truth and not blinded or bias in the aspect of trying to make square pegs fit round holes...
I acknowledge everything in the bible
No you do not, if you did you would have followed Paul and rejected Muhammad and his Demonic Spirit calling them accursed for not bringing the same Gospel message...
i'm able to make 'sense' of it, whereas you aren't...
You are able to reject central doctrines in both Religions to make your own Religion that has exactly 1 adherent, you alone. There is not much that Muslims and Christians can agree on, especially on this board, but there is definitely one thing we both agree on, you are not a Muslim nor a Christian.
I have spent copious amounts of time explaining and showing how your beliefs do not align with Christianity and how you reject the Word of God and central Doctrines of the Faith. I have witnessed Muslims go over your beliefs and show you how what you say conflicts with the Quran and the central Doctrines of their Faith. You dont make sense of anything, you actually make no sense to anyone but yourself...
all you can do perhaps is make it up eg calling him an 'antichrist'. even though Revelation, Zechariah etc are full of evidence regarding the identity of the Antichrist (a fake messiah who claims to be God and sits in the temple), that doesnt fit with Mohammad at all.
An Antichrist is anyone who denies Jesus Christ, Muhammad denies Jesus Christ as laid out in the Scriptures, which I wrote about extensively above when showing what aspects of Christ/the Gospel Islam rejects. Everyone who rejects the Gospel and teaches anything else is denying Christ and are therefore Antichrists.
Muhammad isnt THE Antichrist, just an Antichrist one in the line of millions out here all doing the work of Satan in causing people to reject the only path they have for Salvation, Faith thru Grace in Christ for Atonement of their Sins...
