Thoughts On The Original Quranic View Of Women

[Lady]

This thread is about SO much more than the issue of head and body covering. It really goes far deeper than the views of women in Islam as women from all walks of life struggle with some version of this mysogyny.

Those who know my conservative background reflected in my posts know that I am not an SJW or feminist in any way. As an observer of the world around me, I see women under attack from Satan himself since the Garden of Eden. From the strict doctrines found in theocracies to domestic abuse, to the pornography industry, women are subjugated and placed under the rule of men who cannot or will not honor them as co-creations of The Most High God.

Since the majority here honor the words of Jesus Christ, here is what He said regarding divisions, "...there is neither male nor female...for ye are all one." I am purposely omitting some of the wording to highlight this point. There will never be a perfect world until God comes on the scene to make it all as it should be, but part of God's creation is not being recognized and honored as He intended. This goes across all religions, cultures and regions.

I applaud anyone who can question and think through the truths of God for themselves. I sure wish Eve would have thought to question one who was discussing doctrine with her. If we want to fully be able to comprehend the heart of a God who loves us, we need to search out truths and yes, question the teachings of men and women whose words do not reflect the true nature of God.

 

[Lady]

@manama
Yes, I agree that all we do should be done "...for the love of God." Otherwise it is an empty show that God looks upon as filthy rags. None of us have it all figured out but we share this in common: we have the goal of growing closer to God as we search out how He wants us to live this life.
Modesty for both men and women I agree with for a variety of reasons-mostly so as to not give place to a satanic spirit. I choose to wear loose clothing for this reason.

@grateful servant
Thank you for the time you put into your lengthy reply. I asked for thoughts and opinions and expected to get a variety of them. I respect your heart for pleasing God. I have found there is so much to be gained in the discussion of these topics. It does not have to divide those of differing opinions, but cause us to think and question our own ideas.
None of us have this all figured out and even if the only thing we can agree on is God created all of us and put in each of us a desire to know Him, then it is a good starting point. We can build from there and help each other on this process of loving and serving God.

 

[floss]

I always thought the burqa is only in Sharia country like Saudi Arabia but the other day when I went groceries shopping. I saw a woman with her daughter in burqa, I was astonished because I never seen one personally. I'm from the US and always thought this tradition never made it here. Also, I like to point out that at my work place there are Muslims women wearing the head cover with tons of make up. I thought that was rather contradicting of modesty but I don't have any problem because they look nice and pretty.

In my opinion, there are many way to be modest instead of sticking with early century tradition. Muslims women need to break this barrier and just be normal. It is sadden me to see Muslims women wearing a burqa or hijab in this hot summer time. A jean and a T-shirt is pretty modest as long as you're not revealing too much skins. I don't believe there is anything wrong with showing the beauty God has given you. If you think you're attracting rapist/pervert, you're not. Rapist/pervert will do their things no matter what you're wearing. Rapist who blamed on what the women are wearing is a sore loser with lame excuses for their iniquity. Finally, loving God is inwardly and not outwardly.

 

[Lady]

@floss
"Finally, loving God is inwardly and not outwardly."

Yes, I agree 100%! The Bible backs this up also.

 

[Kung Fu]

A jean and a T-shirt is pretty modest as long as you're not revealing too much skins.

You say that because of how normalized it has become to see women basically naked in this day and age. Christians 500 years ago would completely disagree with you. To many Christians today "too much skin" is subjective.

 

[Kung Fu]

Finally, loving God is inwardly and not outwardly.

Incorrect. It's both. Following God's rules and laws and showing your affection to him as Jesus did when he fell on his knees and put his forehead on the ground are all forms of outwardly love.

 

[floss]

You say that because of how normalized it has become to see women basically naked in this day and age. Christians 500 years ago would completely disagree with you. To many Christians today "too much skin" is subjective.

To me, this is pretty and modest. You're right, I'm not a Christian from 500 year ago. only Muslims still live in the early century.

 

[Kung Fu]

You're right, I'm not a Christian from 500 year ago. only Muslims still live in the early century.

Or perhaps Christians through decades of propaganda have been brainwashed into falling for a watered down version of their faith. In other words, you have been neutered.

 

[rainerann]

I always thought the burqa is only in Sharia country like Saudi Arabia but the other day when I went groceries shopping. I saw a woman with her daughter in burqa, I was astonished because I never seen one personally. I'm from the US and always thought this tradition never made it here. Also, I like to point out that at my work place there are Muslims women wearing the head cover with tons of make up. I thought that was rather contradicting of modesty but I don't have any problem because they look nice and pretty.

In my opinion, there are many way to be modest instead of sticking with early century tradition. Muslims women need to break this barrier and just be normal. It is sadden me to see Muslims women wearing a burqa or hijab in this hot summer time. A jean and a T-shirt is pretty modest as long as you're not revealing too much skins. I don't believe there is anything wrong with showing the beauty God has given you. If you think you're attracting rapist/pervert, you're not. Rapist/pervert will do their things no matter what you're wearing. Rapist who blamed on what the women are wearing is a sore loser with lame excuses for their iniquity. Finally, loving God is inwardly and not outwardly.

The burqa has made its way into other countries too. It is becoming a subject of debate. France has placed a ban on it. Germany is leaning the same direction. This one women is protesting the ban by wearing one. This was an interesting discussion on the ban.

I support the ban on the burka. I don't think it protects women. A woman is a woman is a woman. It doesn't matter if she covers up completely if you still know she is a woman underneath. Hiding r*pe and abuse is also a coping mechanism for many women, so if anything, covering up completely only continues to perpetuate this. They can cover up all signs of sadness, bruises, self harm.

I also support fashion as a creative art. I think it is a shame to not be able to enjoy fashion. Throughout the years, there are so many examples of when clothes could be considered art in the same way as paintings are considered art. I do think it is a special experience to be able to enjoy wearing something that makes you feel special like that too.

However, I primarily support a ban on burka because of the way it can hide abuse.

 

[mecca]

I support the ban on the burka. I don't think it protects women.

That restricts a woman's right to wear the clothing that she wants. That infringes religious freedom for the women who believe that they should wear the burka.

 

[mecca]

Hiding r*pe and abuse is also a coping mechanism for many women, so if anything, covering up completely only continues to perpetuate this. They can cover up all signs of sadness, bruises, self harm.

I also support fashion as a creative art. I think it is a shame to not be able to enjoy fashion. Throughout the years, there are so many examples of when clothes could be considered art in the same way as paintings are considered art. I do think it is a special experience to be able to enjoy wearing something that makes you feel special like that too.

True.

 

[rainerann]

That restricts a woman's right to wear the clothing that she wants. That infringes religious freedom for the women who believe that they should wear the burka.

Well, I think it becomes a difficult situation because when you are in a country that is not Islamic, then there needs to be some way to protect women who do not want to participate in a practice being promoted. It is one thing to suggest to someone that they should accept some form of spirituality or religion. It is another to proselytize that women should abide by a dress code because it demonstrates modesty.

I was a victim of sexual abuse for most of my life so I feel very strongly about how wearing a burka creates the potential to hide abuse. When I was little I did try to hide by dressing modestly. When I was around 8 years old, I would wear a sweatshirt every day for school even when it was hot because I thought this might protect me. It never did. I would look at the other kids in school and how they felt comfortable wearing a t shirt and this would help me to see that I didn't need to feel uncomfortable if I didn't want to. I can only imagine how I would have felt if I was covered up completely and there was no other example to see.

So as a victim of abuse, I do support a ban on the burka. The only way a burka would help in protecting women through the method of modesty is if men were wearing them too and you were not able to tell who was male or female. As it is, a women is still a women is still a women and abuse is widespread. To protect women, the burka should banned. It imposes principles on other nations that go beyond granting religious freedom and proselytizes treating and seeing women in a certain way that other countries have the right to reject.

 

[The Zone]

I don't think women should be made to wear anything they do not want to. But I also believe they should be able to wear what they want if it fits their religion which is basic freedom.

 

[Kung Fu]

To protect women, the burka should banned. It imposes principles on other nations that go beyond granting religious freedom and proselytizes treating and seeing women in a certain way that other countries have the right to reject.

Right, because you were abused that makes it justifiable to take away the rights of all other women who freely want to wear a burqa.

 

[mecca]

So as a victim of abuse, I do support a ban on the burka. The only way a burka would help in protecting women through the method of modesty is if men were wearing them too and you were not able to tell who was male or female.

I get what you're saying but a ban will only limit women's rights, not give them more freedom. It should simply be a woman's choice if she wants to wear certain clothes.

 

[rainerann]

It is part of other cultures to see a person's face. Most of the time, the burka gets pinned as a cultural thing. Other countries have different cultural social practices. If you are in another country, they should be able to reject covering yourself up so that you can't see a person's face if seeing a person's face is part of their social customs. Other countries have the right to reject this cultural practice.

 

[The Zone]

In the US you are basically not suppose to cover your face yet protestors are getting away with it. A person can be pulled over for wearing a mask or concealing their identity which is technically against the law.

 

[floss]

Right, because you were abused that makes it justifiable to take away the rights of all other women who freely want to wear a burqa.

no one in their right mind would want to wear a burqa except brainwashed/feared Muslims women. Its seem like everyone understood except Muslims. I can see them enjoying the freedom of having it banned. Finally can get some of that Vitamin D on their face.

 

[mecca]

no one in their right mind would want to wear a burqa except brainwashed/feared Muslims women. Its seem like everyone understood except Muslims. I can see them enjoying the freedom of having it banned. Finally can get some of that Vitamin D on their face.

How is a ban freedom? Removal of choice isn't freedom. People should focus on getting Muslim women to realize they have a choice, not forcing them to make the one you want.

 

[floss]

How is a ban freedom? Removal of choice isn't freedom. People should focus on getting Muslim women to realize they have a choice, not forcing them to make the one you want.

Do you want to wear a burqa? How do you know they are not forced to wear one?