Red Heifer Birth Paves Way For Renewed Temple Service

[Thunderian]

Lev 16:34 And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the Lord commanded Moses.

Still need to Sacrifice? It is an everlasting statute right? Christs Sacrifice cant be good enough here, we need to rebuild a Temple and Sacrifice for Sin, cuz everlasting.

It's sad how profoundly you just don't get this.

What do you think the Jews are observing right now? Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. So it's been observed since it was commanded, but what about the future? Will it be everlasting? The Bible says it will.

Please read Isaiah 56:6-8; Zechariah 14:16; and Jeremiah 33:15-18. Those passages speak of the temple to be built during the millennial reign of Jesus Christ, where sacrifices will again be performed, and all the holy days will be observed, including the Day of Atonement.

And again what you refuse to accept is that the Promise was fulfilled, everything Promised to Israel is found in the New Covenant.

The New Covenant replaced the Mosaic Covenant -- the Law. What about the other covenants? There are physical promises in those covenants that have not been fulfilled, including Israel's possession of the land God promised them.

Is Israel in the New Covenant or not?

Not as a nation. Individual believing Jews are, and one day all Jews will be.

I dont understand why people are so desperate to have Jesus reign physically on this imperfect Earth of Sin?

How can you be so ignorant of scripture? Jesus Christ will reign for a thousand years on a curse-free earth. No wonder your theology is messier than a soup sandwich. You simply don't know the Bible.

Isaiah 11 -​

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1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:​

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2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;​

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3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:​

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4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.​

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5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.​

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6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.​

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7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.​

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8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.​

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9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.​

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That is prophecy. None of it has been fulfilled. You say it won't ever be. I urge you to rethink your position.

 

[Karlysymon]

I don't know what happened to the Edomites. Why?

Because if Israel's land covenant should hold/remain valid, so should other land covenants, given the land-grabbing since 1948. Esau's descendants were allocated some land and God wouldn't give any of it to Israel.

These are the verses that detail the terms of the Abrahamic Covenant. Genesis 12:1-3; 13:14-18; 15:1-21; 17:1-22

Can you please identify and post the ones that tell us what Abraham's end of the agreement was?

Yes, God told Abraham that he'd make a nation out of him despite being childless. His end of the agreement was to keep the faith/obedience because God knew that his blood descendants would succumb to unfaithfulness (Deut 32 and 31:14-30)but inorder for God to keep His promise to him, He'd give him spiritual children, a nation, those with a character like unto him, hence becoming the father of all believers. Understand then that those who believe are children of Abraham (Gal 3:7)
God confirmed His promise AFTER the test on Mt. Moriah (Gen 22)

And the angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time from heaven and said, “By myself I have sworn,declares the LORD, because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and as the sand that is on the seashore. And your offspring shall possess the gate of his enemies, and in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed my voice.”

So what would have happened if he had withheld Isaac? Clearly, the text says, I will surely bless you because...

Then, at Sinai both God and the Israelites agreed to the terms of another covenant (Exodus 19):

Now therefore, IF you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples, for all the earth is mine; and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the people of Israel.”

And IF they don't obey, persisting in rebellion, would they forever remain His treasured possession?

In verse 8, they agreed to the terms;
All the people answered together and said, “All that the LORD has spoken we will do.”

A couple days later, they were bowing to a golden calf. The peculiarity, as God's special people, was dependent upon obedience. Gos id longsuffering but lifelong disobedience nullifies the agreement. They ended it all, compensating God with 30 pieces of silver. Zechariah 11

"The flock detested me and i grew weary of them...Then I took my staff called Favour and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations. It was revoked on that day, and so the oppressed of the flock who were watching me knew it was the word of the LORD. I told them, ‘If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it.’ So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. And the LORD said to me, ‘Throw it to the potter’– the handsome price at which they valued me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them to the potter at the house of the LORD."

Matthew 27:9
Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: ‘They took the thirty pieces of silver, the price set on him by the people of Israel.

 

[elsbet]

Another question. If God can break his promise to Israel by redefining who Israel is, what's to say he can't break his promise to you by doing the same thing?

Right.

I was reading an article that made this very good point, as well...that whole FOREVER thing-- it is pertinent.


Again, we read Ezekiel 37:24-25 –

“My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children’s children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever.”

The founders of the New Testament Church were certainly the ones to whom this prophecy initially referred. They lived in the land of Israel and they served the new David, Jesus Christ. However, we cannot say that they completely fulfilled this prophecy for it speaks of their living in the land forever.

The rest of the article is here.

EZEKIEL 26 (YLT)
And I have placed them, and multiplied them, And placed My sanctuary in their midst -- to the age.*

*5769. OLAM
FOREVER
long duration, antiquity, futurity

 

[Serveto]

I think this subject raises more questions than answers, at least to me, and I have another (open) one, especially to Christians because it involves interpretation of scripture. If, as I understand Prophet Jeremiah to have said, God "divorced" Israel, in this case apparently distinguished from her equally adulterous sister, Judah (i.e., "the Jews"), at what point, exactly, is it thought He either has remarried or will remarry her?

 

[Karlysymon]

I think this subject raises more questions than answers, at least to me, and I have another (open) one, especially to Christians because it involves interpretation of scripture. If, as I understand Prophet Jeremiah to have said, God "divorced" Israel, in this case apparently distinguished from her equally adulterous sister, Judah (i.e., "the Jews"), at what point, exactly, is it thought He either has remarried or will remarry her?

That's an excellent question! @Red Sky at Morning and @TokiEl are best placed to answer it. So i eagerly await their responses aswell.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

That's an excellent question! @Red Sky at Morning and @TokiEl are best placed to answer it. So i eagerly await their responses aswell.

I think Zechariah 12 appears to suggest it may be towards the end of the Tribulation.

10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 11In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

 

[Karlysymon]

I think Zechariah 12 appears to suggest it may be towards the end of the Tribulation.

10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 11In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

Thanks, but i thought that by the time He regathers them, its an indication that both parties have put aside their differences to move foward (similar to the end of the 70yr exile). So the premise would be the remarriage happening in 1948 or 1917 or any of the other dates leading up to the creation in '48.

 

[DesertRose]

Just dropped in to say this:
.
While you guys are waiting for the Heifer to determine foreign policy and have your back and forth about whether God supports Israel because of their race or because of righteousness.
That matter is already settled in our book. Basically they were God's chosen people due to righteousness not race (that is satanic doctrine 'my tribe right or wrong'. Wake up the Creator is Just.
p.s I agree with those who say that being chosen was conditional 'but if you return (to sins), We shall return to Our Punishment)'.

In our scripture, they are in deep trouble based on their deeds.

"The Most High explains how he decreed for the Children of Israel in the Scripture, that indeed they will do mischief on the earth twice. When the first promise came, He sent against them slaves of His given to terrible warfare who occupied their homes and tortured them. Then, when the second promise came to pass, He sent to them a tribe that made their faces sorrowful and who entered the mosque (of Jerusalem) as they had entered it before, and who destroyed with utter destruction all that fell in their hands. He (swt) also explained that if they return to doing mischief for the third time, then He will return to take revenge from them by subjecting their enemies upon them 'but if you return (to sins), We shall return to Our Punishment)'.

'And when there came to them (the Jews), a Book (this Qur'an) from Allah confirming what is with them [Torah and the Gospel], although aforetime they had invoked Allah [for coming of Muhammad (saws] in order to gain victory over those who disbelieved, then when there came to them that which they had recognized, they disbelieved in it. So let the Curse of Allah be on the disbelievers. How bad is that for which they have sold their ownselves, that they should disbelieve in that which Allah has revealed (the Qur'an), grudging that Allah should reveal of His Grace unto whom He wills of His slaves. So they have drawn on themselves wrath upon wrath. And for the disbelievers, there is disgracing torment' [Qur'an 2:88-90],

"And (remember when your Lord declared that He would certainly keep sending against them (ie. the Jews), till the Day of Resurrection, those who would afflict them with a humiliating torment. Verily, your Lord is Quick in Retribution (for the disobedient, wicked) and certainly He is Oft-Forgiving (for the obedient and those who beg Allah's Forgiveness)" [Qur'an 7:167].

"There will always remain a group from among my Ummah/nation who will continue to fight by the truth, they are apparent to those who oppose them, until the last (followers) of them fight the Maseeh Ad-Dajjal" the anti-Christ. [Reported by Ahmad and Abu Dawood].

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Thanks, but i thought that by the time He regathers them, its an indication that both parties have put aside their differences to move foward (similar to the end of the 70yr exile). So the premise would be the remarriage happening in 1948 or 1917 or any of the other dates leading up to the creation in '48.

Did you ever watch "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly?" - classic ending!

Israel has been gathered back, largely in unbelief to their ancient homeland, ready for the time referred to as "Jacob's Trouble". In a way, they will find themselves at the eye of the storm, but the wider nations will face the same choice for faith or rejection of Jesus. Not all of them will survive this period but there will be those who will finally say "baruch haba b'shem adonai".

 

[TokiEl]

I think this subject raises more questions than answers, at least to me, and I have another (open) one, especially to Christians because it involves interpretation of scripture. If, as I understand Prophet Jeremiah to have said, God "divorced" Israel, in this case apparently distinguished from her equally adulterous sister, Judah (i.e., "the Jews"), at what point, exactly, is it thought He either has remarried or will remarry her?

Assyria conquered the Kingdom of Israel and led the ten tribes captive beyond Euphrates. God called it a divorce.


Jeremiah 3:12“Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say:

‘Return, backsliding Israel,’ says the LORD;
‘I will not cause My anger to fall on you.
For I am merciful,’ says the LORD;
‘I will not remain angry forever.

13Only acknowledge your iniquity,
That you have transgressed against the LORD your God,
And have scattered your charms
To alien deities under every green tree,
And you have not obeyed My voice,’ says the LORD.

14"Return, O backsliding children,” says the LORD; “for I am married to you.
I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion."

 

[Thunderian]

Because if Israel's land covenant should hold/remain valid, so should other land covenants, given the land-grabbing since 1948. Esau's descendants were allocated some land and God wouldn't give any of it to Israel.

I don't see how that was a covenant, since there's nothing in the Bible that says it's a covenant. It looks like God just told Israel to stay away from that area, which, in light of what the Bible says about it, is extremely interesting. Even so, the Edomites land is not a part of Israel today, so I don't see a problem with the Edomites occupying it, as per the word.

Today, Mount Seir is in the country of Jordan, and very important prophetically. It's interesting that you bring it up, because it's been on my mind the last few weeks after it popped up in a study on ancient mosques I was listening to. Did you know that mosques were all oriented to the exact region of Mount Seir for years and years after they were all supposed to be oriented toward Mecca? I know it has nothing to do with this topic, but because the area is so significant, it stuck with me. And here we are talking about it again.

Mount Seir is in the area known as Petra, Jordan -- also called Idumea, Edom, Bozrah, and by a name that is profoundly interesting to me, Selah. It's supposed to be the area where Israel will flee to at the midway point of the Tribulation, after the antichrist defiles the temple and declares himself to be God. It's the stop the Lord will make before he goes on to Jerusalem to deal with the armies at Armageddon. Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah?

It's also the area where Moses stuck the rock for water, and it may be the location of the lake of fire during the Millennial reign of Jesus Christ on earth.

I have to say, all that I've just said reminds me of how much more interesting what I believe is than what you believe. Your story is seriously dull. Pardon me for being profane, but prophecy kicks ass.

Yes, God told Abraham that he'd make a nation out of him despite being childless. His end of the agreement was to keep the faith/obedience because God knew that his blood descendants would succumb to unfaithfulness (Deut 32 and 31:14-30)but inorder for God to keep His promise to him, He'd give him spiritual children, a nation, those with a character like unto him, hence becoming the father of all believers. Understand then that those who believe are children of Abraham (Gal 3:7)
God confirmed His promise AFTER the test on Mt. Moriah (Gen 22)

And the angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time from heaven and said, “By myself I have sworn,declares the LORD, because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and as the sand that is on the seashore. And your offspring shall possess the gate of his enemies, and in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed my voice.”

So what would have happened if he had withheld Isaac? Clearly, the text says, I will surely bless you because...

I will admit, I don't have an answer for this, but I still hold your overall premise to be wack. There is too much in the Bible that can't be explained by saying, "Jesus fulfilled it all." Why is so much of the Bible filled with useless prophecy then?

Thank you for bringing this to my attention, anyway. I look forward to the Bible study that will lead to the answer for me.

Then, at Sinai both God and the Israelites agreed to the terms of another covenant (Exodus 19):

Now therefore, IF you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples, for all the earth is mine; and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the people of Israel.”

And IF they don't obey, persisting in rebellion, would they forever remain His treasured possession?

In verse 8, they agreed to the terms;
All the people answered together and said, “All that the LORD has spoken we will do.”

A couple days later, they were bowing to a golden calf. The peculiarity, as God's special people, was dependent upon obedience. Gos id longsuffering but lifelong disobedience nullifies the agreement. They ended it all, compensating God with 30 pieces of silver. Zechariah 11

"The flock detested me and i grew weary of them...Then I took my staff called Favour and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations. It was revoked on that day, and so the oppressed of the flock who were watching me knew it was the word of the LORD. I told them, ‘If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it.’ So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. And the LORD said to me, ‘Throw it to the potter’– the handsome price at which they valued me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them to the potter at the house of the LORD."

Matthew 27:9
Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: ‘They took the thirty pieces of silver, the price set on him by the people of Israel.

This has to do with the Mosaic covenant, which was conditional in part on Israel, and didn't affect the promise to them of the land.

 

[TokiEl]

That matter is already settled in our book. Basically they were God's chosen people due to righteousness not race (that is satanic doctrine 'my tribe right or wrong'. Wake up the Creator is Just.

Other nations served angels... and both Isarel and Judah served these angels as much as if not more than God. But with the Messiah God of Israel went from being somewhat exclusive to all inclusive. While you guys still serve an angel...

In our scripture, they are in deep trouble based on their deeds.

Are you sure that's not from Mein Kampf ?

 

[DesertRose]

Are you sure that's not from Mein Kampf ?

No it is from the bible:
The text reads:

Ye shall know them by their fruits

Quran 3:64: Say, "O People of the Scripture, come to a word that is equitable between us and you - that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah." But if they turn away, then say, "Bear witness that we are Muslims [submitting to Him]."

 

[TokiEl]

No it is from the bible:
The text reads:

Ye shall know them by their fruits

Quran 3:64: Say, "O People of the Scripture, come to a word that is equitable between us and you - that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah." But if they turn away, then say, "Bear witness that we are Muslims [submitting to Him]."

You serve an angel who wants to be worshipped as God.

You have all these lands because of conquests. And you tried to invade Israel on Day 2 of their independence and you tried two more times before resorting to terror till this day.

You are the army of the Dajjal.

 

[DesertRose]

@TokiEl keep shilling for Israel but their deeds in that past (see below) and present are obvious. You are the army of the antiChrist who support those who are Anti-Christians to the extreme. Rather we are awake and you are led astray regarding those who do wrong!

Quran.
[5:61] When they come to you, they say, "We believe," even though they were full of disbelief when they entered, and they are full of disbelief when they leave. GOD is fully aware of everything they conceal.

[5:62] You see many of them readily committing evil and transgression, and eating from illicit earnings. Miserable indeed is what they do.

[5:63] If only the rabbis and the priests enjoin them from their sinful utterances and illicit earnings! Miserable indeed is what they commit.

Blaspheming Against God

[5:64] The Jews even said, "GOD's hand is tied down!" It is their hands that are tied down. They are condemned for uttering such a blasphemy. Instead, His hands are wide open, spending as He wills. For certain, your Lord's revelations to you will cause many of them to plunge deeper into transgression and disbelief. Consequently, we have committed them to animosity and hatred among themselves until the Day of Resurrection. Whenever they ignite the flames of war, GOD puts them out. They roam the earth wickedly, and GOD dislikes the evildoers.

Salvation For Jews and Christians

[5:65] If only the people of the scripture believe and lead a righteous life, we will then remit their sins, and admit them into gardens of bliss.

They Must Believe in This Quran

[5:66] If only they would uphold the Torah and the Gospel, and what is sent down to them herein from their Lord, they would be showered with blessings from above them and from beneath their feet. Some of them are righteous, but many of them are evildoers. (DR: Untampered texts)

The Messenger Must Deliver

[5:67] O you messenger, deliver what is revealed to you from your Lord— until you do, you have not delivered His message—and GOD will protect you from the people. GOD does not guide the disbelieving people.

[5:68] Say, "O people of the scripture, you have no basis until you uphold the Torah, and the Gospel, and what is sent down to you herein from your Lord." For sure, these revelations from your Lord will cause many of them to plunge deeper into transgression and disbelief. Therefore, do not feel sorry for the disbelieving people.

Minimum Requirements For Salvation

[5:69] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the converts, and the Christians; any of them who (1) believe in GOD and (2) believe in the Last Day, and (3) lead a righteous life, have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

[5:70] We have taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and we sent to them messengers. Whenever a messenger went to them with anything they disliked, some of them they rejected, and some they killed.

[5:71] They thought that they would not be tested, so they turned blind and deaf, then GOD redeemed them, but then many of them turned blind and deaf again. GOD is Seer of everything they do.

Today's Christianity Not Jesus' Religion*

[5:72] Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah himself said, "O Children of Israel, you shall worship GOD; my Lord* and your Lord." Anyone who sets up any idol beside GOD, GOD has forbidden Paradise for him, and his destiny is Hell. The wicked have no helpers.

Footnote

[5:73] Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is a third in a trinity. There is no god except the one god. Unless they refrain from saying this, those who disbelieve among them will incur a painful retribution.

[5:74] Would they not repent to GOD, and ask His forgiveness? GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

[5:75] The Messiah, son of Mary, is no more than a messenger like the messengers before him, and his mother was a saint. Both of them used to eat the food. Note how we explain the revelations for them, and note how they still deviate!

[5:76] Say, "Would you worship beside GOD powerless idols who can neither harm you, nor benefit you? GOD is Hearer, Omniscient."

Choose Your Friends Carefully

[5:77] Say, "O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion beyond the truth, and do not follow the opinions of people who have gone astray, and have misled multitudes of people; they are far astray from the right path."

[5:78] Condemned are those who disbelieved among the Children of Israel, by the tongue of David and Jesus, the son of Mary. This is because they disobeyed and transgressed.

Apathy Condemned

[5:79] They did not enjoin one another from committing evil. Miserable indeed is what they did.

[5:80] You would see many of them allying themselves with those who disbelieve. Miserable indeed is what their hands have sent forth on behalf of their souls. GOD is angry with them and, consequently, they will abide forever in retribution.

[5:81] Had they believed in GOD, and the prophet, and in what was revealed to him herein, they would not have befriended them. But many of them are evil.

 

[TokiEl]

@TokiEl keep shilling for Israel but their deeds in that past (see below) and present are obvious. You are the army of the antiChrist who support those who are Anti-Christians to the extreme. Rather we are awake and you are led astray regarding those who do wrong!

Israel is defending herself because you attack her.

The moment you lay down your arms there will be peace.

You have more than enough land and that Israeli land is in fact God's own land

You do not serve God but an angel who wants to be worshipped as God.


Your problem is that you think you serve God but you don't.

 

[DesertRose]

Your views are deeply one sided and skewed.
I have read that nonsense on here before
You are not very insightful.
You will be locked into helping the wrong side once Prophet Jesus peace be upon him comes and sorts them out.
I pray that righteous Jews, Christians and Muslims check the wide scale corruption of the unrighteous of all paths.
I guess you will stay on my ignore.

 

[Thunderian]

The moment you lay down your arms there will be peace.

And the moment Israel lays down her arms, there will be no Israel.

 

[Thunderian]

And the moment Israel lays down her arms, there will be no Israel.

By the way, you'd think the haters would love end times prophecy. According to what I believe, most Jews will be killed in the Tribulation, and they will lose what land they have now (for a while).

 

[Daciple]

What do you think the Jews are observing right now? Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. So it's been observed since it was commanded, but what about the future? Will it be everlasting?

The Jews are not Sacrificing in the Temple for the forgiveness of Sin. This has been done away with because Christ came to be the Final Sacrifice for Sin once and for all. I mean you know this Thunder. You will admit it in a different thread concerning those who want to bring us under the Law, but cling to these ideals when they are wrong, to support your faulty man made Theology and Eschatology.

The context of that Verse:

Lev 16:30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the Lord.
31 It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.
32 And the priest, whom he shall anoint, and whom he shall consecrate to minister in the priest's office in his father's stead, shall make the atonement, and shall put on the linen clothes, even the holy garments:
33 And he shall make an atonement for the holy sanctuary, and he shall make an atonement for the tabernacle of the congregation, and for the altar, and he shall make an atonement for the priests, and for all the people of the congregation.

THAT is what is to be Forever according to the text but what does the New Testament say concerning this?

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

I mean I believe you not only know this, you have preached this to others, but for some reason now want to renege on it because it negates your Eschatology. The Law in which states that there will be sacrifices in the Temple for forgiveness of Sin FOREVER, has been done away with since Christ came and fulfilled it in Himself. The Scripture above details that the verses and commands in Leviticus were but a shadow but NOT the very image and they could NEVER make people perfect. It says if it could then they would have CEASED to be offered.

Then the Scriptures tells us very clearly that Jesus came and provided the Sacrifice ONCE AND FOR ALL, FOREVER, that the Law was foreshadowing and therefore the Sacrifices have and FOREVER will cease because His offering has perfected FOR EVER them that are sanctified.

This idea that Jesus will come back to rule and Earth and Re instate the Old Testament Laws, even ones for the Sacrifice of Sin is straight up demeaning the entire purpose of Christs coming. I mean you deep down know this, you know how incredibly offensive it is for someone anyone to start Sacrificing for the redemption of Sin. It is to spit in the very face of Christ. However because you have gone 100% all in on establishing your Eschatology above all things, you even allow for there to be Sacrifices for Sins again, what horrible garbage that is...

Please read Isaiah 56:6-8; Zechariah 14:16; and Jeremiah 33:15-18. Those passages speak of the temple to be built during the millennial reign of Jesus Christ, where sacrifices will again be performed, and all the holy days will be observed, including the Day of Atonement.

No it doesnt, and you only think that because you have been brainwashed by Dispensationalism to think so. Again if we go thru Church History no one ever thought that these passages pertained to a literal Israel literally doing this again. That type of thinking absolutely overrides the entire purpose of Christ and the New Covenant which again has been done away with forever in Christ. You know this...

These Prophecies either relate to Christ and are fulfilled in Him or speak of the New Heaven and New Earth. Just take a step back and think about what you are arguing with me about for one moment. The idea of Forever, in absolutely no way can ANY Prophecy concerning FOREVER be fulfilled in a Millennial reign of Christ on this Earth. That negates the idea of FOREVER doesnt it?

If the Jews are supposed to be in Israel FOREVER, and you take that as a literal dwelling in a place in the Middle East, then once the World is destroyed, which I hope we can both agree WILL happen, then immediately your interpretation fails. Therefore we must negate the idea that anything pertaining to FOREVER is ever to be seen in a Physical Earthly fulfillment and instead is speaking of in Christ who is ETERNAL and truly FOREVER, or the New Heavens and New Earth which are again ETERNAL and truly FOREVER.

I dont have the time to show you how each of these verses are (what exactly the New Testament tells us FORESHADOWING) pertaining to either Christ or the New Heaven and New Earth, but if you or more like those who are open minded enough to learn a different Eschatology apart from Dispensationalism, I would recommend the Book The High King of Heaven by Dean Davis. It is rather lengthy but reads fast and gives and excellent understanding of what Old Testament Prophecies mean in light of the New Testament and emphasizes interpreting Prophecy in the same manner Jesus, the Apostles and the writers of the New Testament interpreted them. Which by the way definitely wasnt thru Dispensationalist Googles.

There are physical promises in those covenants that have not been fulfilled, including Israel's possession of the land God promised them.

Is that right? Why dont you accept Scripture when it say 100% everything promised to Israel was given to them and God has already in the past 100% fulfilled His obligation to them?

Josh 21:43 And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
44 And the Lord gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the Lord delivered all their enemies into their hand.
45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the Lord had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

Point blank period, straight up right there for the World to see, God had 100% given to Israel all the Land and not one thing the Lord spoke to Israel and their fathers were left out. It is right there Thunder, He did it all, now you want to tell us that He didnt?

Sorry bud I go with God and believe with zero doubts that everything He swore to Abraham, Issac, Jacob and Moses were all fulfilled just as it says right there. Your constant argument that something else has to be done or else God isnt fulfilling His promise to them falls flat on its face by that verse.

I have quoted this many times and there never is a response to it, would you care to actually answer how God didnt fulfill what He swore to them when the Bible in this verse says otherwise?

I doubt you will answer tho..

Not as a nation. Individual believing Jews are, and one day all Jews will be.

Really? You dont believe that Israel, the mass of people, are included in the New Covenant? So you believe that there is a different Covenant that this Earthly Fleshly Nation gets that is apart from the New Covenant, the one that God sent His own Son to die for and establish?

According to Scripture and the entire mass of Church History, Israel and the Church are the same thing. There is no distinction, but Dispensationalist MUST set them apart or else their entire Theology evaporates. I gave the verse, Paul says that the Church is the Israel of God. Over and over its shown in the New Testament that the Church has been grafted into Israel, that we are all One Body. There is no Jew or Gentile in Christ, there is no special Nation of God save the Church which is compromised of all believers Jew and Gentile INCLUDING those who lived in the Physical Nation of Israel before Jesus came...

How can you be so ignorant of scripture?

Stop saying this, just because I disagree with you on interpreting Scripture does not mean I am ignorant of Scripture. IDK how many times it must be said, if we had a discussion 3 or 4 years ago, I would be agreeing with you. If in the past I would agree with you does that mean that I was ignorant of Scripture? No it means that I started seeing flaws in Dispensationalism and began to study it with an open mind and have seen that its not the best interpretation of Scriptures...

I will keep repeating myself if you continue to be demeaning about it tho. I once believed as you, if I am ignorant than so are you bro...

Jesus Christ will reign for a thousand years on a curse-free earth. No wonder your theology is messier than a soup sandwich. You simply don't know the Bible.

Again bud, I know the Bible, Jesus will NOT reign on a curse free Earth, its not even thought that in Dispensationalism, beacause you know SACRIFICING FOR SINS as you just wanted to argue at the beginning of the post. Talk about sloppy theology. Oh its a curse free Earth, but actually people still need to come to the Temple to Sacrifice for Sin because they are Sinning but Sin isnt really Sin or causes damage cuz its curse free.

That right there is one of the fatalistic flaws in Millennialism that was very hard for me to overlook. Its curse free, but people are still Sinning. Jesus died for ALL SIN ONCE AND FOR ALL, but people are going to bring Sacrifices for Sin offerings cuz they still Sin. Hypocrisy.

That is prophecy. None of it has been fulfilled. You say it won't ever be. I urge you to rethink your position.

Again you are wrong on both of your accusations. First I believe that it has been fulfilled in Christ. Dont believe me? Well Paul says it was:

Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.
10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.
11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people.
12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

Paul quotes that exact Scripture saying it was fulfilled in Jesus, yet you want to tell me it isnt? Again I go with Scripture apart from your man made Theology that forces you to reject Scripture to keep it afloat.

Second, if we interpret Scripture as Paul told us to, as allegories, which I quoted in the other posts you ignored, this is speaking of the change that happens when someone goes from unsaved to saved. Now before you just immediately shout that down, try and think about it Spiritually, instead of trying to jam it into some End Times literal Scenario.

Each of these creatures had to have a change of nature in order to act the way they do in this passage. The Wolf wants to eat the Lamb, the Lamb is afraid of the Wolf, however they had a change of nature and now the Wolf doesnt want to eat and harm the Lamb and the Lamb isnt afraid of the Wolf. This is an allegory of the change of nature that happens to one when they come to Christ.

2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Ect ect ect, I mean you know all the verses that pertain to us having a changed nature when we come to Christ. Theres a whole lot that can be seen in these Scriptures apart from your Theology, but I am not going to get into it, but that is glimpse as to how the Church has interpreted Scriptures for eons. Your Theologies robs it of it application to us because your Theology only looks to a Physical Land Mass in the Middle East for fulfillment.

And thirdly, it is also fulfilled in the New Heavens and New Earth when THAT type of thing will be literally true, because let us not forget your Millennium has not only Sin in it, but also ends up having Satan running rampant and deceiving everyone again and millions or billions of people get destroyed AGAIN. Kinda removes that last verse if we take it LITERALLY during your Millennium..

9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain

Except for when Satan gets let loose and deceives everyone and they get hurt and destroyed. Again Hypocrisy. However in the New Earth and the New Heavens guess what, no one will hurt or destroy, the knowledge of the Lord will go all over that Earth, and the change of nature will be forever, not some garbage temporal just kidding kind of way that Millennialism makes it out to be...

By the way, you'd think the haters would love end times prophecy. According to what I believe, most Jews will be killed in the Tribulation, and they will lose what land they have now (for a while).

Sounds awful, why would anyone be happy for that?

According to what I believe all of the Jews have the opportunity to repent and believe in Christ and not worry about some stupid land mass and instead look forward to the day that they and we all inherit the New Heavens and New Earth where everything will actually be perfect! Not some 1/2 and 1/2 Perfect but not really and watch out cuz Jesus is gonna smite you if you Sin and eventually Satan is gonna ruin it and cause most of you to die and go to Hell anyways version of End Times Prophecy. You know the one you hold...