Mortal Freedom-Spiritual Death!

[Faker He-Man]

Okay. Then there really is no reason to strive to be a good person in this world. Lets all just indulge in our self-destructive behaviors (since there are no eternal consequences) and just await God's loving arms once we expire.

Why do you require a set of rules/consequences in order to choose your own actions? Are you afraid of what you would choose otherwise?

 

[Bacsi]

You are losing me here. What is the point of teaching responsibility when its not going to matter/carry any weight/have a bearing on our lives in the age to come? Responsibility translates into accountability. How can we be accountable for our actions in this age and not be in the age to come?

Here we must focus on this life, not the next. There're consequences of every action. If we care about what we do today because it affects somebody in some way, it'll really make a difference. If we're half-ass scared of a future hell, we're never going to really act responsibly. It's a very weak motivator. Especially when there are multiple ways to "buy out" your way by means of prayer, donation, ritual, ministry etc

 

[Bacsi]

Why do you require a set of rules/consequences in order to choose your own actions? Are you afraid of what you would choose otherwise?

Your own reason and morality vs. external dictate... I think it's about having no courage.

 

[Helioform]

This does not take into account the fact that the universe is not limited to the Earth only and that the Bible is just but one book which has been introduced to teach us morality. "Evil" probably exists also on other planets.

Is hell real? I think it is, but some might be sent there only as a very last resort. I also think Hell is multi-leveled, such as in Dante's Inferno. There is a Limbo level where everything is dream-like and the suffering is only emotional due to being separated from loved ones. There is also a way out such as being depicted in various movies like "Jacob's Ladder", a stair climbing analogy where they are reunited with God at the top. So morality is really the only thing that is taken into account here when comes the decision to send some souls to Hell. There are millions of people who have never heard of Jesus, Moses etc, some also die way before they are old enough to sin. Faith in Jesus is a booster to help the believers act morally, but is not a requirement.

 

[Bacsi]

This does not take into account the fact that the universe is not limited to the Earth only and that the Bible is just but one book which has been introduced to teach us morality. "Evil" probably exists also on other planets.

Is hell real? I think it is, but some might be sent there only as a very last resort. I also think Hell is multi-leveled, such as in Dante's Inferno. There is a Limbo level where everything is dream-like and the suffering is only emotional due to being separated from loved ones. There is also a way out such as being depicted in various movies like "Jacob's Ladder", a stair climbing analogy where they are reunited with God at the top. So morality is really the only thing that is taken into account here when comes the decision to send some souls to Hell. There are millions of people who have never heard of Jesus, Moses etc, some also die way before they are old enough to sin. Faith in Jesus is a booster to help the believers act morally, but is not a requirement.

Do you think hell is an eternal destination or a temporary one, say, until the soul's low vibrations are corrected following a period of more or less intense suffering?

 

[Helioform]

Do you think hell is an eternal destination or a temporary one, say, until the soul's low vibrations are corrected following a period of more or less intense suffering?

Temporary, but ultimately the lake of fire might be the very last resort if the person does not show some improvement inside Hell's various levels I think.

 

[Bacsi]

Temporary, but ultimately the lake of fire might be the very last resort if the person does not show some improvement inside Hell's various levels I think.

Some people sin because they were born into a bad environment. Others commit certain sins in full confidence they're doing ultimate good (burning of heretics or imposing religion on kids). There are people who have a much higher tendency to sin due to abnormal hormonal secretions of their endocrine system or because they carry an excessive burden of past lives. Etc. Do you think there's judgement upon death that takes into account the degree of actual responsibility even for willful sinning or it's purely based on the sum of lifetime actions and their consequences?

Can some aspects of the Jesuses from religions be detrimental to good moral standing? Such as Christian Americans supporting and enabling the deaths of millions in Iraq, Lybia, Syria, Palestine etc. because of hatred of Islam? Or not really caring about their actions being sure that faith alone is enough?

 

[Helioform]

Do you think there's judgement upon death that takes into account the degree of actual responsibility even for willful sinning or it's purely based on the sum of lifetime actions and their consequences?

I think everyone is given a chance to sin less often in the end. The final judgement is supposed to happen after our last incarnation on Earth, which will be destroyed apparently according to Revelation. All of our past lives will weigh heavily on our last one so in a sense we will be judged according to everything we did imo.

Can some aspects of the Jesuses from religions be detrimental to good moral standing? Such as Christian Americans supporting and enabling the deaths of millions in Iraq, Lybia, Syria, Palestine etc. because of hatred of Islam? Or not really caring about their actions being sure that faith alone is enough?

Of course. What matters is actually what fruits we will bear and those who call themselves Christians often aren't Christian at all but only give lip service to most Jesus' teachings. Faith alone can't save anyone if they commit atrocities such as genocide or anything bad like that.

 

[Bacsi]

I think everyone is given a chance to sin less often in the end. The final judgement is supposed to happen after our last incarnation on Earth, which will be destroyed apparently according to Revelation. All of our past lives will weigh heavily on our last one so in a sense we will be judged according to everything we did imo.



Of course. What matters is actually what fruits we will bear and those who call themselves Christians often aren't Christian at all but only give lip service to most Jesus' teachings. Faith alone can't save anyone if they commit atrocities such as genocide or anything bad like that.

I hold to the belief that no one will be sent to hell. Being in the limbo or in a confused state in the afterlife, which is temporary, is fully the consequence of the soul's condition and not by God's judgement. God will save such soul in any case. Your ideas make total sense to me, nevertheless.

 

[Douglas Summers]

It's a blunt lie. God accepts all people in heaven. He's a good God.

Hi Bacsi, You might try reading your Bible, The word of God is in it. In Matthew Chapter 13:24-30 Christ speaks of the wheat among the tares. He says the Tares were sown by the enemy (Satan) and will be gathered up and burned, while the wheat is put in the barn. In Revelation 14:9-11, Those who worship the beast will be tormented with fire and brimstone FOREVER AND EVER before the angels and in the presence of the lamb. In Revelation 20:7-15 The deceivers and deceived are thrown in to the lake of fire tormented for eternity. To teach that a man can live the way he wants against God's will makes you as guilty and under the Anathema of God (Gal. 1:6-9)

 

[floss]

Hi Bacsi, You might try reading your Bible, The word of God is in it. In Matthew Chapter 13:24-30 Christ speaks of the wheat among the tares. He says the Tares were sown by the enemy (Satan) and will be gathered up and burned, while the wheat is put in the barn. In Revelation 14:9-11, Those who worship the beast will be tormented with fire and brimstone FOREVER AND EVER before the angels and in the presence of the lamb. In Revelation 20:7-15 The deceivers and deceived are thrown in to the lake of fire tormented for eternity. To teach that a man can live the way he wants against God's will makes you as guilty and under the Anathema of God (Gal. 1:6-9)

He's a Shamanist who believed in a Blue Sky Tengrist Spirits...not anywhere near Christianity. His god love everyone including pedophiles, murderer, rapist, satanist...etc. His version of heaven will included all those people.

 

[Bacsi]

Hi Bacsi, You might try reading your Bible, The word of God is in it. In Matthew Chapter 13:24-30 Christ speaks of the wheat among the tares. He says the Tares were sown by the enemy (Satan) and will be gathered up and burned, while the wheat is put in the barn. In Revelation 14:9-11, Those who worship the beast will be tormented with fire and brimstone FOREVER AND EVER before the angels and in the presence of the lamb. In Revelation 20:7-15 The deceivers and deceived are thrown in to the lake of fire tormented for eternity. To teach that a man can live the way he wants against God's will makes you as guilty and under the Anathema of God (Gal. 1:6-9)

The Bible was written by people, not God. In the Qur'an there's a different version. In Bhagavad Gita there's a different version. In the Egyptian Book of the Dead, there's a different version. Etc.

Jesus often spoke figuratively, but is taken literally. Besides, the Bible was edited multiple times.

 

[Bacsi]

He's a Shamanist who believed in a Blue Sky Tengrist Spirits...not anywhere near Christianity. His god love everyone including pedophiles, murderer, rapist, satanist...etc. His version of heaven will included all those people.

All are sinful. By emphasising the murderers etc. and not themselves as grave sinners, people make a terrible mistake. For example, US citizens who voted for George W. Bush and supported his policies, are guilty in the millions deaths of people in the Middle East.

All sins die with your body. Your soul returns to the pure state of light upon death. There's nothing to judge there. The sinful ways remain on earth. You will be re-incarnated as a new soul, an innocent child, if you need to learn more lessons or to complete a mission you failed in your past life. The purpose of life is spiritual progress.

 

[Faker He-Man]

No, iam not. They simply act as restrainers.

Great! If there is no longer an inner conflict, that means you no longer need them, right? Wait... restrainers??? Maybe they are still needed

Can we function well without rules and consequences? The natural world operates on rules/laws. Why do we tell children not to play with fire or keep them away from bleach?

Well, it's not "right" or "wrong" for children to play with fire or drink bleach. It's just dangerous.

How do we know what's wrong or right, good or bad, without rules and consequences?

You have to decide for yourself what's right or wrong, just like everyone else. Scary thought, eh? Even if you are handed a set of rules, you can choose whether to follow them or not. In either case, once the choice is made, the rule is no longer necessary.

Imagine if governments didn't have laws and there were no prisons, we would all be on our best behavior, right?

I can't speak for everyone.

 

[Bacsi]

Imagine if governments didn't have laws and there were no prisons, we would all be on our best behavior, right?

Great athropologists, such as Margatet Mead, described multiple societies without law enforcement or prisons whatsoever. Those societies operated on personal responsibility towards others, not on fear of punishment. Safe and kind societies, full of love and happiness. Our modern fear-driven societies are filled with suffering and misery. Police and penitentiary institutions are of no much help. If anything, people come out of jail ten times worse criminals.

The ideology of being scared of hell doesn't work. Only love and compassion ultimately work best as motivation for good behaviour.

 

[Karlysymon]

Great athropologists, such as Margatet Mead, described multiple societies without law enforcement or prisons whatsoever. Those societies operated on personal responsibility towards others, not on fear of punishment. Safe and kind societies, full of love and happiness. Our modern fear-driven societies are filled with suffering and misery. Police and penitentiary institutions are of no much help. If anything, people come out of jail ten times worse criminals.

The ideology of being scared of hell doesn't work. Only love and compassion ultimately work best as motivation for good behaviour.

That probably works on a small scale. a home doesn't need a prison. You can't expect a country like India, with a billion+ people to function properly without law enforcement or prisons.

You should be able to be a good person regardless of the reward.

 

[Karlysymon]

Great! If there is no longer an inner conflict, that means you no longer need them, right? Wait... restrainers??? Maybe they are still needed

The struggle between good and evil will always rage on internally. Outwardly, the act as a check on self, should I dare to indulge in what's wrong.

Well, it's not "right" or "wrong" for children to play with fire or drink bleach. It's just dangerous.

Rules are put in place to keep them off dangerous stuff

You have to decide for yourself what's right or wrong, just like everyone else. Scary thought, eh? Even if you are handed a set of rules, you can choose whether to follow them or not. In either case, once the choice is made, the rule is no longer necessary.

Thats not feasible. We need an absolute moral authority.

 

[Douglas Summers]

He's a Shamanist who believed in a Blue Sky Tengrist Spirits...not anywhere near Christianity. His god love everyone including pedophiles, murderer, rapist, satanist...etc. His version of heaven will included all those people.

It makes me sick anymore to see a Catholic priest and the Jezebel Papal Pope.

 

[Bacsi]

That probably works on a small scale. a home doesn't need a prison. You can't expect a country like India, with a billion+ people to function properly without law enforcement or prisons.

You should be able to be a good person regardless of the reward.

Holland is fairly large and has been experimenting for a while with rehabilitation of criminals rather than punishing them with excellent results.

I understand your scepticism because you've lived in such paradigm all yoir life and seen nothing else. Same goes for people in India or anywhere else. It's not the size of society that matters, but its ideology. Strong repressions produce equal counter-action. History shows it very well. Even in high security prisons people murder each other, use drugs and commit crime remotely by cell phones etc. If there's a crime in heart, it'll find a way out despite any strength of violent law enforecement.

I'm not for abolishing punishment in our modern-day society. I'm for true explanation of God. There is no violence in him, but love and foregiveness. With such ideas, our society will inevitably improve. With the dark hell-sending God of the ancient times we have no hope - as the cycle of selfishness and hate will perpetuate.

 

[Bacsi]

It makes me sick anymore to see a Catholic priest and the Jezebel Papal Pope.

There's bad and good in every religious group. We can judge them all. Best way to love and forgive. There's so much genuine good in Catholicism.