Mortal Freedom-Spiritual Death!

[Douglas Summers]

There was a rich man (a devout Jew) who was well off with material wealth. Enough wealth that he could build a wall around his property. He felt he was in God's grace or favor because , under the OT Law of the Tora, God would reward the Jew with wealth as a reward. (That did not mean wealth by ill gotten gains) This rich man felt he had the freedom to worship God apart from the commandments of God, which was evident by the fact a man named Lazarus, outside the gate of the rich man was begging for help, But was ignored by the rich man, in whom was consumed with his own prosperity.
Lazarus died and ascended to the bosom of Father Abraham in comfort and bliss. In time, the rich man died and was looking at the bottomless pit and lake of fire and brimstone, waiting for the final judgment. The rich man asked for mercy (that he would not give to Lazarus) and that someone would go tell his sons of this place so that they would repent. But Abraham says, if they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rose from the dead. (Luke 16:19-31)

The rich man had the book (Book of Moses or Tora) And he used it to his personal belief and moral benefit. But the Book is Spiritual...not carnal, just as the New Covenant is to the reader today. Freedom of religion is a mortal law, and does not give insight to the Spiritual law...you must be born again. A man asked a preacher, why do you preach every service that you must be born again, and the Pastor answered, because, "you must be born again," What will be your answer when the Lord say, I do not know you?.....Did you not have the Book? And your answer would probably be yes. But how would you answer the next question, "Did you have Christ?"

 

[Bacsi]

There was a rich man (a devout Jew) who was well off with material wealth. Enough wealth that he could build a wall around his property. He felt he was in God's grace or favor because , under the OT Law of the Tora, God would reward the Jew with wealth as a reward. (That did not mean wealth by ill gotten gains) This rich man felt he had the freedom to worship God apart from the commandments of God, which was evident by the fact a man named Lazarus, outside the gate of the rich man was begging for help, But was ignored by the rich man, in whom was consumed with his own prosperity.
Lazarus died and ascended to the bosom of Father Abraham in comfort and bliss. In time, the rich man died and was looking at the bottomless pit and lake of fire and brimstone, waiting for the final judgment. The rich man asked for mercy (that he would not give to Lazarus) and that someone would go tell his sons of this place so that they would repent. But Abraham says, if they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rose from the dead. (Luke 16:19-31)

The rich man had the book (Book of Moses or Tora) And he used it to his personal belief and moral benefit. But the Book is Spiritual...not carnal, just as the New Covenant is to the reader today. Freedom of religion is a mortal law, and does not give insight to the Spiritual law...you must be born again. A man asked a preacher, why do you preach every service that you must be born again, and the Pastor answered, because, "you must be born again," What will be your answer when the Lord say, I do not know you?.....Did you not have the Book? And your answer would probably be yes. But how would you answer the next question, "Did you have Christ?"

It's a blunt lie. God accepts all people in heaven. He's a good God.

 

[Douglas Summers]

It's a blunt lie. God accepts all people in heaven. He's a good God.

I don't think Bacsi, that I will ever be fellowshipping with Judas Iscariot, Hitler or Stalin, or all those who aborted a Child because it was an inconvenience for them to have Children or anyone else that are trespassing (the intrusion of self will worship into the sphere of divine authority) Gods wrath is coming on all who disobey Him! (Ephesians Chapters 1 & 2) But nevertheless,...….God can forgive (upon repentance and rejeneration)

 

[Alanantic]

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." -- Marcus Aurelius

 

[Bacsi]

I don't think Bacsi, that I will ever be fellowshipping with Judas Iscariot, Hitler or Stalin, or all those who aborted a Child because it was an inconvenience for them to have Children or anyone else that are trespassing (the intrusion of self will worship into the sphere of divine authority) Gods wrath is coming on all who disobey Him! (Ephesians Chapters 1 & 2) But nevertheless,...….God can forgive (upon repentance and rejeneration)

I guess you will also not be fellowshipping with lions who ate innocent deer? Or with cats who devoured little cute mice?

God is good. He forgives everyone for everything. No exceptions. All are welcome in heaven. Our sinful bodies die and don't enter into the spirit world. We're in our purest form of light beyond death, all the nasties remain on the earth.

 

[Karlysymon]

It's a blunt lie. God accepts all people in heaven. He's a good God.

Even the ones that have an intense hatred for Him and want nothing to do with Him? He'll just let everyone in, right?
Maybe you should try living with someone who hates you so much, that
they even want you dead and see how well that works

 

[Douglas Summers]

I guess you will also not be fellowshipping with lions who ate innocent deer? Or with cats who devoured little cute mice?

God is good. He forgives everyone for everything. No exceptions. All are welcome in heaven. Our sinful bodies die and don't enter into the spirit world. We're in our purest form of light beyond death, all the nasties remain on the earth.

Good luck!

 

[Bacsi]

Even the ones that have an intense hatred for Him and want nothing to do with Him? He'll just let everyone in, right?
Maybe you should try living with someone who hates you so much, that
they even want you dead and see how well that works

God loves all regardless. His love can melt any amont and intensity of hate and rejection. He's not a human being who can't forgive - his ability to forgive is truly endless. When we cross over into the afterlife, our old life is left behind on earth. We go as pure newborns of light to the loving embrace of our Creator.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

God loves all regardless. His love can melt any amont and intensity of hate and rejection. He's not a human being who can't forgive. His ability to forgive is truly endless. When we cross over to the afterlife, our old life is left behind on earth. We enter as pure newborns of light into the arms of our Creator.

You might not know but this is more or less what "Universalists" believe.

Is universalism / universal salvation biblical?

Question: "Is universalism / universal salvation biblical?"

Answer: Universalism is the belief that everyone will be saved. There are many people today who hold to universal salvation and believe that all people eventually end up in heaven. Perhaps it is the thought of men and women living a life of eternal torment in hell that causes some to reject the teaching of Scripture on this issue. For some it is an over-emphasis on the love and compassion of God—and the neglect of the righteousness and justice of God—that leads them to believe God will have mercy on every living soul. But the Scriptures do teach that some people will spend eternity in hell.

First of all, the Bible is clear that unredeemed men will dwell forever in hell. Jesus’ own words confirm that the time spent in heaven for the redeemed will last as long as that of the unredeemed in hell. Matthew 25:46says, “Then they [the unsaved] will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” According to this verse, the punishment of the unsaved is just as eternal as the life of the righteous. Some believe that those in hell will eventually cease to exist, but the Lord Himself confirms that it will last forever. Matthew 25:41 and Mark 9:44 describe hell as “eternal fire” and “unquenchable fire.”

How does one avoid this unquenchable fire? Many people believe that all roads—all religions and beliefs—lead to heaven, or they consider that God is so full of love and mercy that He will allow all people into heaven. God is certainly full of love and mercy; it was these qualities that led Him to send His Son, Jesus Christ, to earth to die on the cross for us. Jesus Christ is the exclusive door that leads to an eternity in heaven. Acts 4:12 says, “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.” “There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5). In John 14:6, Jesus says, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” John 3:16, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” If we choose to reject God’s Son, we do not meet the requirements for salvation (John 3:16, 18, 36).

With verses such as these, it becomes clear that universalism and universal salvation are unbiblical beliefs. Universalism directly contradicts what Scripture teaches. While many people accuse Christians of being intolerant and “exclusive,” it is important to remember that these are the words of Christ Himself. Christians did not develop these ideas on their own; Christians are simply stating what the Lord has already said. People choose to reject the message because they do not want to face up to their sin and admit that they need the Lord to save them. To say that those who reject God’s provision of salvation through His Son will be saved is to belittle the holiness and justice of God and negate the need of Jesus’ sacrifice on our behalf.

https://www.gotquestions.org/universalism.html

 

[Bacsi]

Good luck!

Thank you. I don't beleive in pure luck, though. Our luck is our own making.

 

[Bacsi]

You might not know but this is more or less what "Universalists" believe.

Is universalism / universal salvation biblical?

Question: "Is universalism / universal salvation biblical?"

Answer: Universalism is the belief that everyone will be saved. There are many people today who hold to universal salvation and believe that all people eventually end up in heaven. Perhaps it is the thought of men and women living a life of eternal torment in hell that causes some to reject the teaching of Scripture on this issue. For some it is an over-emphasis on the love and compassion of God—and the neglect of the righteousness and justice of God—that leads them to believe God will have mercy on every living soul. But the Scriptures do teach that some people will spend eternity in hell.

First of all, the Bible is clear that unredeemed men will dwell forever in hell. Jesus’ own words confirm that the time spent in heaven for the redeemed will last as long as that of the unredeemed in hell. Matthew 25:46says, “Then they [the unsaved] will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” According to this verse, the punishment of the unsaved is just as eternal as the life of the righteous. Some believe that those in hell will eventually cease to exist, but the Lord Himself confirms that it will last forever. Matthew 25:41 and Mark 9:44 describe hell as “eternal fire” and “unquenchable fire.”

How does one avoid this unquenchable fire? Many people believe that all roads—all religions and beliefs—lead to heaven, or they consider that God is so full of love and mercy that He will allow all people into heaven. God is certainly full of love and mercy; it was these qualities that led Him to send His Son, Jesus Christ, to earth to die on the cross for us. Jesus Christ is the exclusive door that leads to an eternity in heaven. Acts 4:12 says, “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.” “There is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5). In John 14:6, Jesus says, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” John 3:16, “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” If we choose to reject God’s Son, we do not meet the requirements for salvation (John 3:16, 18, 36).

With verses such as these, it becomes clear that universalism and universal salvation are unbiblical beliefs. Universalism directly contradicts what Scripture teaches. While many people accuse Christians of being intolerant and “exclusive,” it is important to remember that these are the words of Christ Himself. Christians did not develop these ideas on their own; Christians are simply stating what the Lord has already said. People choose to reject the message because they do not want to face up to their sin and admit that they need the Lord to save them. To say that those who reject God’s provision of salvation through His Son will be saved is to belittle the holiness and justice of God and negate the need of Jesus’ sacrifice on our behalf.

https://www.gotquestions.org/universalism.html

Universalism is true because our wonderful God is unversal. He's not hateful and unjust to be sending some souls to a hell. It's gross misrepresentation of the nature of the true God

 

[Karlysymon]

God loves all regardless. His love can melt any amont and intensity of hate and rejection. He's not a human being who can't forgive - his ability to forgive is truly endless. When we cross over into the afterlife, our old life is left behind on earth. We enter as pure newborns of light into the loving arms of our Creator.

Yes. God is Love but you are forgetting two things in the love equation. Freewill and a limit. No matter how great His love is, some people just simply don't want to know and He can't force them because; for love to be true, it has to be voluntary. How many people out there know how much their parents have sacrificed for them and yet continue to reject them or remain estranged?

 

[Bacsi]

Yes. God is Love but you are forgetting two things in the love equation. Freewill and a limit. No matter how great His love is, some people just simply don't want to know and He can't force them because; for love to be true, it has to be voluntary. How many people out there know how much their parents have sacrificed for them and yet continue to reject them or remain estranged?

You keep comparing God to humans. There are parents who murder their children. God doesn't do it. That's the thing. God has a different, far more superior, nature than our current existence in the physical bodies. The bodies are entities of their own. We're greatly influenced by them. We have to breathe, drink, eat, sleep etc. Our souls exist in a different dimension and are not limited by the bodies once we cross over. After death, our souls are clean and pure. No need for being placed in hell. God is love.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

If we were talking about the Sun it would be no less bright or hot for all out theorising. In the same way God's attributes are unchanged, though we may wish that one we are particularly fond of (love) eclipses all his others (including justice, holiness and absolute righteousness).

 

[Karlysymon]

You keep comparing God to humans. There are many parents who murder their children. God doesn't do it. That's the thing. God has a different, far more superior, nature than our current existence in the physical bodies. The bodies are entities of their own. We're greatly influenced by them. We have to breathe, drink, eat, sleep etc. Our souls exist in a different dimension and are not limited by the bodies once we cross over. After death, our souls are clean and pure. No need for being placed in hell. God is love.

Okay. Then there really is no reason to strive to be a good person in this world. Lets all just indulge in our self-destructive behaviors (since there are no eternal consequences) and just await God's loving arms once we expire.

@Red Sky at Morning

I call Love the mother of all goodness. You can't be kind or just to someone without implicitly loving them. It's not possible.

 

[Bacsi]

If we were talking about the Sun it would be no less bright or hot for all out theorising. In the same way God's attributes are unchanged, though we may wish that one we are particularly fond of (love) eclipses all his others (including justice, holiness and absolute righteousness).

Those attributes are made up to copy human individual and social realities. They evolve alongside people. In the OT, God instructed parents to stone their rebellious children to death, no synagogue or church still teaches this today. Etc.

The true God is not a super-human. He's God. Total love.

 

[Bacsi]

Okay. Then there really is no reason to strive to be a good person in this world. Lets all just indulge in our self-destructive behaviors (since there are no eternal consequences) and just await God's loving arms once we expire.

@Red Sky at Morning

I call Love the mother of all goodness. You can't be kind or just to someone without implicitly loving them. It's not possible.

Bingo. The teaching of a vengeful God is nothing more than a way to frighten people into submission.

It's a lie and very dangerous teaching. It makes people careless of what they do as not many are actually scared of hell enough.

People must be taught responsibility in this life right here, not the next. By postponing hell to later, we create one here and now.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Those attributes are made up to copy human individual and social realities. They evolve alongside people. In the OT, God instructed parents to stone their rebellious children to death, no synagogue or church still teaches this today. Etc.

The true God is not a super-human. He's God. Total love.

Copies? Try Immutability, omniscience, omnipresence, absolute free sovereignty, the Trinity etc. If you wanted to make up a God as a copy of ourselves, this would not be Him.

The made up god would be more likely a melting pot of good and evil, light and dark etc. Someone who accepts us just as we are and pats us on the back for being lovable rogues. I think Freemasons and Rosicrucians might have been sold a line...

 

[Bacsi]

Copies? Try Immutability, omniscience, omnipresence, absolute free sovereignty, the Trinity etc. If you wanted to make up a God as a copy of ourselves, this would not be Him.

The made up god would be more likely a melting pot of good and evil, light and dark etc. Someone who accepts us just as we are and pats us on the back for being lovable rogues. I think Freemasons and Rosicrucians might have been sold a line...

An expanded copy, yes.

 

[Karlysymon]

People must be taught responsibility in this life right here, not the next. By postponing hell to later, we create one here and now.

You are losing me here. What is the point of teaching responsibility when its not going to matter/carry any weight/have a bearing on our lives in the age to come? Responsibility translates into accountability. How can we be accountable for our actions in this age and not be in the age to come?