Failed Hypothesis!?!

[EpistemiX]

SMH *sigh...

this thread isn't about Islam and Christianity... but about secularism as a failed hypothesis!!!

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

For informational purposes from our own sources.

Btw: Everyone is entitled to walk the path they wish however they should do so after ascertaining the truth not just by looking at prejudiced sources. After conveying the message ....we say, "to you your path and to us ours."..
source: https://islamqa.info/en/27093

The differences between Christianity and Islam
Praise be to Allaah.
There are many great factors that widen the gaps between Muslims and Christians. The differences in belief between us and them do not let us get close unless they give up their kufr (disbelief) and misguidance, and join the monotheists who believe in One Lord and God, and bear witness that the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is His Messenger, and believe that ‘Eesa (Jesus – peace be upon him) was a human being.

These are the most significant deviations in their religion, which widen the gap between us Muslims and them:

Do you mind if I provide a Christian perspective after each point?

1. The Christian belief that the Messiah is the son of God.

Agree.

2. The Christian belief that the Messiah (peace be upon him) is a god alongside God and that he is the second person of the holy trinity, according to their beliefs.

Agree.

3. The belief that divinity may be incarnated in humanity.

Agree.

4. The belief that God is formed of three Persons, which is known as the doctrine of the trinity.

Agree.

5. The Christian belief that the Messiah (peace be upon him) was crucified by the Jews on the command of Pontius Pilate, and that he died on the cross.

Agree.

6. The Christian belief that the Messiah died on the cross as a ransom for mankind and as expiation for original sin.

Agree, put better here though ;-)

7. The Christian attitude towards the Jews who disbelieved in Jesus (peace be upon him) and claimed that they crucified him and killed him, and they accused his mother Mary (Maryam) of fornication – of which she was innocent – yet despite all that their attitude towards them today is one of support and loyalty, and their attitude towards the Muslims who venerate Jesus (peace be upon him) and his mother is one of enmity and disavowal.

Would make a great thread!

8. Their distortion of the Book of God the Gospel (Injeel), whether they distorted the words by changing them or by adding words, or they distorted the meaning, and in doing that they attribute things to God that cannot be attributed to Him.

There is a great thread about it ;-)

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-critical-text-criticized.3461/

9. The doctrine of redemption, which is their belief that God sent His only son to redeem mankind from a sin committed by the father of mankind (Adam – peace be upon him), but God was unable to forgive his sin, so He sent His only son who had no sin, to sacrifice himself in order to do away with sin. This is an attribution of imperfection to the Lord of the Worlds and a denial of the fact that Adam (peace be upon him) repented and Allaah saved the Messiah (peace be upon him) from death.

A complex one and worth unpacking...

10. Their disbelief in the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), even though he is mentioned in the Old and New Testaments.

I think you are great, but no, Muhammad is not a true prophet and only appears in the text though eisegesis.

11. Their belief in the soundness of the distorted Torah that they have in front of them today, which contains insults against God, describing Him as having shortcomings, and insults against the Prophets and Messengers, saying things that one can hardly dare utter, but we mention them in order to highlight the abhorrent nature of the kufr (disbelief) that they follow. They describe God as weeping with regret for the Flood which drowned the people of Noah, until His eyes became sore, and the angels came to visit Him – exalted be He far above that.

Another interesting thread to unpack...

Btw - could you give me the source for the God with sore eyes quote?

They describe Lot (peace be upon him) as committing incest with his two daughters, and Noah as drinking wine until he became drunk and his ‘awrah (nakedness) became visible. And there are even more foolish stories than that.[/QUOTE]

Ever watched Jerry Springer - real people do stupid things!

See Hidaayat al-Hayaara fi Awbah al-Yahood wa’l-Nasaara by Ibn al-Qayyim; Naqd al-Nasraaniyyah by Dr. Muhammad ibn ‘Abd-Allaah al-Saheem

And Allaah knows best.

 

[Damien50]

For informational purposes from our own sources.

Btw: Everyone is entitled to walk the path they wish however they should do so after ascertaining the truth not just by looking at prejudiced sources. After conveying the message ....we say, "to you your path and to us ours."..
source: https://islamqa.info/en/27093

The differences between Christianity and Islam
Praise be to Allaah.
There are many great factors that widen the gaps between Muslims and Christians. The differences in belief between us and them do not let us get close unless they give up their kufr (disbelief) and misguidance, and join the monotheists who believe in One Lord and God, and bear witness that the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is His Messenger, and believe that ‘Eesa (Jesus – peace be upon him) was a human being.

These are the most significant deviations in their religion, which widen the gap between us Muslims and them:

1. The Christian belief that the Messiah is the son of God.

2. The Christian belief that the Messiah (peace be upon him) is a god alongside God and that he is the second person of the holy trinity, according to their beliefs.

3. The belief that divinity may be incarnated in humanity.

4. The belief that God is formed of three Persons, which is known as the doctrine of the trinity.

5. The Christian belief that the Messiah (peace be upon him) was crucified by the Jews on the command of Pontius Pilate, and that he died on the cross.

6. The Christian belief that the Messiah died on the cross as a ransom for mankind and as expiation for original sin.

7. The Christian attitude towards the Jews who disbelieved in Jesus (peace be upon him) and claimed that they crucified him and killed him, and they accused his mother Mary (Maryam) of fornication – of which she was innocent – yet despite all that their attitude towards them today is one of support and loyalty, and their attitude towards the Muslims who venerate Jesus (peace be upon him) and his mother is one of enmity and disavowal.

8. Their distortion of the Book of God the Gospel (Injeel), whether they distorted the words by changing them or by adding words, or they distorted the meaning, and in doing that they attribute things to God that cannot be attributed to Him.

9. The doctrine of redemption, which is their belief that God sent His only son to redeem mankind from a sin committed by the father of mankind (Adam – peace be upon him), but God was unable to forgive his sin, so He sent His only son who had no sin, to sacrifice himself in order to do away with sin. This is an attribution of imperfection to the Lord of the Worlds and a denial of the fact that Adam (peace be upon him) repented and Allaah saved the Messiah (peace be upon him) from death.

10. Their disbelief in the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), even though he is mentioned in the Old and New Testaments.

11. Their belief in the soundness of the distorted Torah that they have in front of them today, which contains insults against God, describing Him as having shortcomings, and insults against the Prophets and Messengers, saying things that one can hardly dare utter, but we mention them in order to highlight the abhorrent nature of the kufr (disbelief) that they follow. They describe God as weeping with regret for the Flood which drowned the people of Noah, until His eyes became sore, and the angels came to visit Him – exalted be He far above that.

They describe Lot (peace be upon him) as committing incest with his two daughters, and Noah as drinking wine until he became drunk and his ‘awrah (nakedness) became visible. And there are even more foolish stories than that.

See Hidaayat al-Hayaara fi Awbah al-Yahood wa’l-Nasaara by Ibn al-Qayyim; Naqd al-Nasraaniyyah by Dr. Muhammad ibn ‘Abd-Allaah al-Saheem

And Allaah knows best.

That's like a diatribe exposing the writer's own ignorance. It's biased and misinformed lol.

@EpistemiX

In a hypothetical situation where a hypothetical cabal running the world in a compartmentalized fashion where physically they aim to bankrupt the common man but also spiritually through deception and persecution were to exist wouldn't it be conceivable that through order and chaos, via financial/spiritual turmoil, that they might ultimately reign in the situation by presenting the perfect religion and currency?

Find God, lose God, find Buddha, lose Buddha, find Allah, lose Allah. Conclude there is no God but feel spiritually bankrupt. Become spiritual, feel free but be ignorant, rinse and repeat. But that hypothetical cabal could offer the solution through dilution of scriptures, cultures, morals, values, etc. until they show through miracles that they have the spiritual high ground that everyone has yearned for or so they think.

 

[DesertRose]

Ever watched Jerry Springer - real people do stupid things!

These are the Prophets of God and examples for their societies. We maintain that they have been lied about by the liar scribes.

Out of respect for the OP suggest we leave this topic out of this thread.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

These are the Prophet's of God and examples for their societies. We maintain that they have been lied about by the liar scribes.

Out of respect for the OP suggest we leave this topic out of this thread.

That's fine - I'm meant no disrespect to @EpistemiX , and I hope none was taken.

My point here is simply that in the Bible, Lot was just a guy, not specifically a prophet, but was still identified in Luke 17 as a pattern of a generation to come...

28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[EpistemiX]

@EpistemiX

In a hypothetical situation where a hypothetical cabal running the world in a compartmentalized fashion where physically they aim to bankrupt the common man but also spiritually through deception and persecution were to exist wouldn't it be conceivable that through order and chaos, via financial/spiritual turmoil, that they might ultimately reign in the situation by presenting the perfect religion and currency?

Find God, lose God, find Buddha, lose Buddha, find Allah, lose Allah. Conclude there is no God but feel spiritually bankrupt. Become spiritual, feel free but be ignorant, rinse and repeat. But that hypothetical cabal could offer the solution through dilution of scriptures, cultures, morals, values, etc. until they show through miracles that they have the spiritual high ground that everyone has yearned for or so they think.

Isn't what you described above the perfect foundation being prepared for the arrival of the anti-christ in as I understand it, both, Christianity and Islam???

 

[Douglas Summers]

10. Their disbelief in the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), even though he is mentioned in the Old and New Testaments.

Muhammad was born somewhere around 570 AD, but many antichrist were before Christ was even crucified. An anti -Christ is one that does not believe that Christ is the son of God and equal with God. In which Islam does not believe either. Islam is not in Scripture, nor is Muhammad. Zoroastrianism, was the religion in (Persia / Iran) until Islam replaced it around 600 AD. To make ones religion more superior or older than Christianity will make up things. Muhammad was distantly related to father Abraham through his mother (Aminah) who was a Jew. But none of that makes no difference for we believe Christ and His deity and The Scripture that says, "it is by no other name that Jesus the Christ that a man might be saved (Acts 4:12)
Shalom,
Douglas Summers

 

[Damien50]

Isn't what you described above the perfect foundation being prepared for the arrival of the anti-christ in as I understand it, both, Christianity and Islam???

You tell me. As I understood and continue to understand, the war is waged not in the flesh but in spirit and no amount of materialistic things or pursuits will save the spirit.

 

[JoChris]

That's fine - I'm meant no disrespect to @EpistemiX , and I hope none was taken.

My point here is simply that in the Bible, Lot was just a guy, not specifically a prophet, but was still identified in Luke 17 as a pattern of a generation to come...

28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

And the ironic thing is that those whose lives are 100% "this world only" are the ones who will be leaving their inheritance to the more religious in several generations' time (if the Lord Jesus decides to tarry).

The most extreme environmentalists don't even have any children in order to save the planet. How leaving the planet to the child-bearing, most religious people (who put God/gods first, people second, often environment last) is going to save the planet... That takes a lot of faith.

 

[JoChris]

I think occasionally we can find everyone we know, agreeable. Could it be a sign?

That some of us are less narrow-minded than we are given credit for?

Offending any one group without check while claiming the first amendment is bound to make people who have a brain that works, upset. Thank God the USA is the only nation in the world that has this perversity pushed and other nations have built their tolerances based on not offending the "other".

In Australia we do have censorship in favour of minorities, causing unrest and resentment, similar to major factor of Trump's victory and Brexit. Again secularists are doing this to their long term downfall. Minority cultures' families usually outnumber even Christian families.
Why do atheists reject generally pro-freedom of thought Christianity in favour of other cultures? I believe the true answer is their hatred of God, not tolerance as they claim.

Having said that, the United States of the Interwebs has its' own law of the jungle. And there are only two species inhabiting it. Human Beings and Trolls.

That is an international problem and will exist until the internet ceases to exist.

No, but if I was, I could easily cite the scandals revolving around the mass baby burials in order to prove that even the mecca of the Christian faith literally had skeletons in that proverbial closet. To be honest, I think I'd be hard pressed to find a religion which has escaped this stigma. Even the Pre-Islamic Arabs used to (on occasion) bury their new-born female babies for fear of poverty. According to the little reading I have done from both secular and Islamic sources, I came to know that it was Mohamed, the Prophet, who had wiped this practice off the Arab psyche for good. In that way (and many others) he was quite revolutionary.

The early church was pro-life. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/geneveith/2010/11/how-christianity-conquered-pagan-culture/

Could it be, that this is what secular atheists fear the most? The fact that their own belief comes back to haunt them? The irony is prevalent, that secular atheist belief in evolution states that the only reason for existence is to survive and reproduce. Religious folk don't only excel at this whilst finding higher purpose to their lives, but the secular atheists actually suck at it (reproduction).

I agree. No insight. No long-term big picture thinking of their actions' consequences.
Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

Societal atheists are basically secular atheists, granted. However, what makes them fail above and beyond the causal nature of carnality is the fact that they do not marry as much as believers, even going to such lengths as using sex for pleasure instead of reproductions - the advent of contraceptive inventiveness of the modern age is a direct blow to the base and failed idealism they shout about - survival and reproduction! A deep and dark irony!!!!!!!!

A sex-obsessed culture will have fewer children ironically. The more pleasure focused people are, the fewer pregnancies there are.
A traditional marriage culture will have more children. Therefore if pattern continues long-term, religious people will far outnumber secular atheists.

I guess your "sample study" is a sound one, given that it is based on your own experiences and observations, and it's nice to know you are willing to accept it as such.God bless

This was in the State of Western Australia - there and the Northern Territory are where the most traditional/ isolated aboriginal communities are. From what I heard from WA locals, those states also have a lot more hostility between white and black people, due to severe cultural differences, increased crime rates, alcoholism (and violence -> supposedly "dry" communities), sexual ab*se etc.
Eastern states we have way less problems overall, but that is probably to a lot more intermingling between white and black culture because of many more cities. I had never seen such dysfunctional aboriginal families firsthand until we moved to WA (army posting for 2 years).

 

[UnderAlienControl]