Judge Jeanine: Trump is fulfilling End Times prophecy!

[Thunderian]

The Gog and Magog quote from Bush is absolutely authentic.

What is your proof he actually said that?

Remember, Bush has never mentioned Bible prophecy anywhere else, and the book the quote came from is full of errors. What makes you so sure he randomly brought up Gog and Magog with the president of France?

 

[Kung Fu]

What is your proof he actually said that?

Remember, Bush has never mentioned Bible prophecy anywhere else, and the book the quote came from is full of errors. What makes you so sure he randomly brought up Gog and Magog with the president of France?

There's a source within the post.

What makes you so sure he didn't bring it up with the French?

Also, Bush has mentioned America's fight with terrorism as some kind of "crusade". He seems like he loves his Christian and Biblical talk.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

There's a source within the post.

What makes you so sure he didn't bring it up with the French?

Also, Bush has mentioned America's fight with terrorism as some kind of "crusade". He seems like he loves his Christian and Biblical talk.

Like KF mentioned, its already sourced. And he himself was the source about the Gog and Magog names he and his father chose. He kind of tried to play it off jokingly, but I was shocked when I learned of that and I wasn't a Muslim at that time.

 

[Renegade]

The Sanhedrin called Bush gog in 2008...
Esteemed Mr. George W. Bush, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal
https://www.templeinstitute.org/megillat-bush.htm

 

[TempestOfTempo]

The Sanhedrin called Bush gog in 2008...
Esteemed Mr. George W. Bush, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal
https://www.templeinstitute.org/megillat-bush.htm

Daaaannnggggg........

 

[Thunderian]

Like KF mentioned, its already sourced. And he himself was the source about the Gog and Magog names he and his father chose. He kind of tried to play it off jokingly, but I was shocked when I learned of that and I wasn't a Muslim at that time.

You clearly didn't read my post about Bush and the source of that quote.

It's a bunk quote from a bunk book. People who heard the conversation between Bush and Chirac said nothing about Gog and Magog was mentioned.

I gave good reasons for why I doubt Bush said what you say he did. Insisting he did say it when the only source is a discredited and biased book is confirmation bias at it's finest.

 

[Helioform]

I have been thinking about this a little and I am wondering: prophecies are good for what exactly?

Basically all it does is tell you that God decided that everything is cast in stone and that what was predicted to happen, will happen. Where is our free will in this? What is the point of trying to better this world when you believe these events will occur no matter what? Like someone said in another thread, books like Revelation only paralyze the generations that believe they are in the End Times. We just wait for the end and basically do nothing to increase our quality of life on this planet.

I used to believe that Satan was a real being but now, I believe that Satan is just a state of being--as is Jesus. If he existed, where would he be living anyway? He is supposed to rule this planet but is he like, living underground or something? It is nonsical to think that there could be a being like him actually living here.

So I am pretty sure that Revelation is a script and not a prophecy. If we don't succeed in establishing ourselves and create a paradise on Earth, then maybe there is a new Earth somewhere else in the universe. I am thinking of this in terms of galactic civilizations who might have an agenda in having this planet destroyed. It is after all on the border of the Milky Way, and could be used as a kind of outpost for accessing another galaxy. So whoever ends up conquering this planet will have a pretty good position. And whoever destroys it might prevent some other species of having this position. Of course all of this is pure conjecture on my part but it makes sense when I think of what is the meaning of having prophecies. Especially considering the fact that time travel is indeed possible and prophecies are just an alien species giving visions of a possible future to a human. It might be just that: a possible or maybe a probable future. That or just a plan, being laid out as the best way to realize this would be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

So in the end, it might just be that prophecies are malleable things that are subject to certain agendas being followed by beings a lot more powerful than we are. The fact that this (Revelation) is being orchestrated by those in power, the very leaders of this world is telling because they base everything they do on their religious beliefs, and not on their own convictions. It has become a self-fulfilling event.

 

[Thunderian]

I have to admit I lost some respect for you with this post. You denied this stuff existed and then when its presented to you in irrefutable, factual form...... you still find a way to excuse it. If you are the person you present yourself as here, you are better than this and its your job to call out those on your end who are wrong.

I don't think you're reading my posts.

The argument is that Christian Zionists are fomenting war in the middle east because we think it will make certain prophecies "kick in" and then Jesus will come back. Right? If I have that wrong, please correct me.

The evidence for this, and the argument, due to the general lack of comprehension of what the prophecies actually are and what Christians actually believe, is a misquote from John Hagee, who is well-known but not held in high regard by anyone, and a made up quote from George Bush, who doesn't even believe in the prophecies people like you accuse him of trying to make come true.

I will talk about prophecies and Israel and whatever to anyone, but if we're going to have any kind of discussion, you need to read and respond to the things I say in my posts, not just post a bunch of bunk and prejudice. Show some respect for the truth, at least.

 

[Thunderian]

Basically all it does is tell you that God decided that everything is cast in stone and that what was predicted to happen, will happen. Where is our free will in this? What is the point of trying to better this world when you believe these events will occur no matter what? Like someone said in another thread, books like Revelation only paralyze the generations that believe they are in the End Times. We just wait for the end and basically do nothing to increase our quality of life on this planet.

Prophecies don't mean that God has decided anything, just that he knows it's going to happen. Prophecies can also be promises or warnings, and are a way that God authenticates himself and the Bible. Around a third of the Bible is prophecy.

End times prophecies aren't the only ones in the Bible, either, and it's funny to read that those who believe in them are simultaneously paralyzed and also trying to start world war three.

 

[Renegade]

You clearly didn't read my post about Bush and the source of that quote.

It's a bunk quote from a bunk book. People who heard the conversation between Bush and Chirac said nothing about Gog and Magog was mentioned.

I gave good reasons for why I doubt Bush said what you say he did. Insisting he did say it when the only source is a discredited and biased book is confirmation bias at it's finest.

Original source of the story...
University of Lausanne (UNIL)’s magazine, Allez savoir, September 2007

Full translation here..
http://sedulia.blogs.com/sedulias_translations/2009/05/chirac-asks-theologian-to-explain-george-w-bushs-reference-to-gog-and-magog-early-2003.html
"The telephone rang. It was the head of the Biblical Service of the Protestant Federation of France [Service biblique de la Federation protestante de France]. She asked me if I could write a page on Gog and Magog for the French President." Thomas Römer, a theology professor at the University of Lausanne (UNIL) and specialist in the Old Testament, had just been plunged into the midst of international politics. This seemingly banal theological inquiry had unsuspected ramifications, for it was set into motion by George W. Bush.

"The prophecies are being accomplished."

"I also learned during this phone call that the President of the United States had brought up Gog and Magog in a conversation with Jacques Chirac. The discussion was about current events in the Middle East. After having explained that he saw Gog and Magog at work, George W. Bush added that the Biblical prophecies were coming to pass," Thomas Römer continues.

This conversation, which also included the Axis of Evil, took place at the beginning of 2003, a few weeks before the American intervention in Iraq. George W. Bush was then trying yet again to convince Jacques Chirac to follow him in his Operation Just Cause, which the Frenchman obstinately refused to do.

As neither Jacques Chirac nor his advisers had understood the American President's reference, the administration got to work. Since George W. Bush belongs to the evangelical Christian movement, the Elysée turned to French Protestants, who transmitted the request to Thomas Römer. "There is nothing unusual about that," the UNIL researcher continues. "We often collaborate on scientific matters with our neighbors."

So the Lausanne theologian was now given the task of enlightening the French President on Gog and Magog, a work which this specialist in the Old Testament was happy to do, and about which he speaks for the first time today, now that Jacques Chirac has retired and this episode belongs to history.


The story was confirmed by Chirac himself in 2009 in Si vous le répétez, je démentirai... : Chirac, Sarkozy, Villepin [If You Repeat It, I’ll Deny It] by Jean-Claude Maurice.

I can't find an English version atm..

 

[TempestOfTempo]

I don't think you're reading my posts.

The argument is that Christian Zionists are fomenting war in the middle east because we think it will make certain prophecies "kick in" and then Jesus will come back. Right? If I have that wrong, please correct me.

The evidence for this, and the argument, due to the general lack of comprehension of what the prophecies actually are and what Christians actually believe, is a misquote from John Hagee, who is well-known but not held in high regard by anyone, and a made up quote from George Bush, who doesn't even believe in the prophecies people like you accuse him of trying to make come true.

I will talk about prophecies and Israel and whatever to anyone, but if we're going to have any kind of discussion, you need to read and respond to the things I say in my posts, not just post a bunch of bunk and prejudice. Show some respect for the truth, at least.

It aint a mis-quote from Hagee and straight up, he and his partners in crime REVEL in this sort of rhetoric. They have MILLIONS of followers so attempting to minimize his exhortations towards an apocalyptic confrontation is pretty much futile. They dont deny it so its puzzling why you are trying to deny it for them. As for the Gog/Magog quote in regards to Chirac, the above posts authenticates it while the source of info on the self-titling by him and his daddy at Skull & Bones was Bush himself.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

The masses are paralyzed, those in positions of power try to bring it about.

An excellent take on things..... although these con men are succeeding in turning a portion of the Evangelical Zionist movement towards their side so they aint exactly passive actors anymore, more like duped victims. Thundo doesn't seem to co-sign their actions and thats commendable, but I wish hed acknowledge how much of this stuff has infiltrated his movement.

 

[Thunderian]

Original source of the story...
University of Lausanne (UNIL)’s magazine, Allez savoir, September 2007

Full translation here..
http://sedulia.blogs.com/sedulias_translations/2009/05/chirac-asks-theologian-to-explain-george-w-bushs-reference-to-gog-and-magog-early-2003.html
"The telephone rang. It was the head of the Biblical Service of the Protestant Federation of France [Service biblique de la Federation protestante de France]. She asked me if I could write a page on Gog and Magog for the French President." Thomas Römer, a theology professor at the University of Lausanne (UNIL) and specialist in the Old Testament, had just been plunged into the midst of international politics. This seemingly banal theological inquiry had unsuspected ramifications, for it was set into motion by George W. Bush.

"The prophecies are being accomplished."

"I also learned during this phone call that the President of the United States had brought up Gog and Magog in a conversation with Jacques Chirac. The discussion was about current events in the Middle East. After having explained that he saw Gog and Magog at work, George W. Bush added that the Biblical prophecies were coming to pass," Thomas Römer continues.

This conversation, which also included the Axis of Evil, took place at the beginning of 2003, a few weeks before the American intervention in Iraq. George W. Bush was then trying yet again to convince Jacques Chirac to follow him in his Operation Just Cause, which the Frenchman obstinately refused to do.

As neither Jacques Chirac nor his advisers had understood the American President's reference, the administration got to work. Since George W. Bush belongs to the evangelical Christian movement, the Elysée turned to French Protestants, who transmitted the request to Thomas Römer. "There is nothing unusual about that," the UNIL researcher continues. "We often collaborate on scientific matters with our neighbors."

So the Lausanne theologian was now given the task of enlightening the French President on Gog and Magog, a work which this specialist in the Old Testament was happy to do, and about which he speaks for the first time today, now that Jacques Chirac has retired and this episode belongs to history.


The story was confirmed by Chirac himself in 2009 in Si vous le répétez, je démentirai... : Chirac, Sarkozy, Villepin [If You Repeat It, I’ll Deny It] by Jean-Claude Maurice.

I can't find an English version atm..

Thanks for posting that, Renegade. I like sources.

I still don't think it strengthens the argument that Christian Zionists want war, just that Bush is an idiot.

 

[Thunderian]

As for the Gog/Magog quote in regards to Chirac, the above posts authenticates it while the source of info on the self-titling by him and his daddy at Skull & Bones was Bush himself.

Why don't you explain to us who or what Gog and Magog are, according to the Bible?

 

[TempestOfTempo]

Why don't you explain to us who or what Gog and Magog are, according to the Bible?

Which bible version?

 

[rainerann]

Which bible version?

The definition of Gog and Magog is the same in every translation. I hate to break it to you, but this is a clear sign that what you know about translations and the Bible is based on hearsay and you just have no real way to answer the question. Clearly, a subject that you need to research more. A different Bible version won't give you a different definition of God and Magog. What you can do if you don't believe me is search Gog and Magog separately in BibleGateway.com and it will pull up all the verses that reference these terms. Then you could use BibleGateway to see how they differ between different versions.

The reasons Muslims think the Bible is corrupt has nothing to do with the present number of translations that exist either considering there was no such thing when the accusation was first made, even though this is often used for the sake of the wider audience who does not know about the actual Muslim teaching that we are translating a corrupt text into different versions. However, the versions themselves do not change much in the process. A different definition of Gog and Magog is not what causes a debate over translations within the Christian community either.

Overall, I think the whole discussion of Gog and Magog is being exaggerated. Christian Zionists aren't going to pull the trigger and start wars because they think this is God's will, but a lot of them are somewhat superstitious about it and behave in a way that demonstrates some degree of powerlessness because of their view towards prophecy. It is like there is nothing they can do about it or like it is some kind of reality TV show they are watching as viewers.

So there are a lot of things that are happening in the news according to the group of Christian Zionists. The "Zionists" on this board are nowhere near the extreme that I have seen, but still it would be an exaggeration to say that they wanted all the death and destruction that prophecy describes in order for prophecy to be fulfilled.

The main issue they have is assigning identities to the characters in prophecy that will feel right to them and in many cases maintain some social acceptability. So the beast in Revelation is often the one who is going to attack the Jews. This would cause them to root for the Jews. Then, some would say they are trying to encourage the fulfillment of prophecy because of how they believe in contrast to this view, but that isn't really what is happening. Zionists and anti-Zionists are capable of presenting a view containing bias, which is important to remember because solid research should be void of bias. So Zionists generally think the Jews are going to be persecuted by the beast and will not be the persecutor. I think they will be the persecutor.

Then, a major problem is that there is too great of a dependence on prophecy to explain everything that is happening in a world, and a much more limited research of what is happening in the world. This often creates a superstitious perspective that is centered on prophecy but is still not going to initiate wars to provoke the fulfillment. This is still something I haven't seen much of on this forum. The Christian Zionists here have all been very pleasant and gentle exhibiting a strong foundation in the teachings of Christ.

So there is a lot of exaggeration about this subject. Even in the title of the thread, "Trump is fulfilling end times prophecy". This is just because Christians use prophecy as a map. This statement is the same thing as saying "you are here" like the maps in the mall do. It has nothing to do with encouraging ways to provoke the fulfillment of prophecy. Especially in regard to Trump. This is becoming all confused bringing in Trump as a second Cyrus. There is no mention of a Cyrus-like character in the book of Revelation.

So clearly the study of prophecy for most Zionists is not very good, and I do think this results in what the Bible calls the apostacy. Still, all statements like this mean is that there are a lot of people with a strong interest in studying prophecy. It doesn't really mean anything more than that. Most of the real prophecy statements that are bringing complaint like the article praising Bush are part of the Jewish influence as this was produced by the Jewish community. The church is influenced by this in as much as they are fascinated with the celebrity of Jews. Still, we don't have a Talmud that would support the selfishness and deceit that Jewish Zionists support.

We just have the Bible, and it doesn't teach that we should initiate the fulfillment of prophecy with our actions. We believe people are doing this because of their rejection of Christ and trying to gauge how these actions fit on a timeline given by prophecy in the Bible. This includes Christian Zionists and people like myself. That is why when we debate this subject amongst ourselves, we argue over what the prophecy says in the scriptures, and not over whether it is morally right to initiate war considering what the prophecy says. I have never seen this subject discussed and we are pretty evenly split on the subject of Israel.

We discuss the subject as observers because a primary Christian teaching is to be in the world, but not of it. That is really the extent that a Christian can be held responsible. The rest of the complaint would be directed at a Jewish Zionist who has the permission to do much more than this according to the Talmud and additional Rabbinic teachings.

 

[rainerann]

The fact that this (Revelation) is being orchestrated by those in power, the very leaders of this world is telling because they base everything they do on their religious beliefs, and not on their own convictions. It has become a self-fulfilling event.

"The fact that this (Revelation) is being orchestrated by those in power," is a way to persecute the church and essentially try to bring an end to Christianity by bringing an end to the prophecy contained within Christianity. This is a primary reason I do not support Zionism because I see it as a means of persecuting the church now in ways like this, and it will become increasingly more antagonistic towards the church as it increases in power with the hope of removing the church in the end.

This is why I believe apostasy is defined as a sort of embrace of your own demise because that is what it is. I know you center your whole belief around Freemasons. In this case, it really doesn't matter who your primary villain is because in every case it is possible to see how all of them could view the final result as a way of removing competitive religions or belief systems. Essentially, what you have is some group that we debate over in a clear pursuit of trying to win the crown of truth. I think this is something that could be considered foundational and capable of being agreed on by many.

So, in my opinion, when someone says Trump is fulfilling end-times prophecy, they are really saying that they expect Christianity to come to an end and one can only speculate whether they are right or not at this point. In all the dystopian stories, the future communism goes on for hundreds of years. In the Bible, it does not last anywhere near that long, and this will clearly be the determining feature for some.

 

[Aero]

When Judge Jeanine is saying all that stuff, it's just a dog whistle. It's an appeal to emotion, or dogmatism. Maybe people like her really believe it, but that's not what they are showing. Nor are they really capable of explaining themselves on cable news. That's just not what the news is for. It's meant for dog whistles. Not explaining stuff.

The question for me is. Is the blowing of dog whistles more dangerous than acting like prophets? Dogs seem to reliably show up all the time, but a prophecy is essentially set in the stone of the earth. You all can argue about the divine nature of a prophecy, but sometimes I'm not so sure. The Pope said that self doubt is like the devil, and that makes sense to me.

Weird, right? The Pope was making sense. That can't be right, or can it? According to you all, any prophecy right now is coming from "masonic devilry". Therefore the Pope is calling you all devils. For making me doubt myself, and the divine nature of prophecies.

 

[Bacsi]

And that is it. Every generation believes they are living in the End Times and it has paralyzed society.

To live expecting an end isn't life.

 

[Renegade]

Thanks for posting that, Renegade. I like sources.

I still don't think it strengthens the argument that Christian Zionists want war, just that Bush is an idiot.

No problem ..

Also worth mentioning ...Saddam had his own messiah complex and believed he was the reincarnation of Nebuchadnezzar..