Would Jesus condemn or condone Yahweh for his crimes against humanity?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Would Jesus condemn or condone Yahweh for his crimes against humanity?

I see more than one Jesus speaking through the bible. The good Jesus would likely condemn while the less moral and good Jesus that most follow might not. A number of his policies have been found wanting, --- in moral terms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUfGRN4HVrQ

Dogma says that Jesus ascended to heaven and his rightful place as judge of the universe at Yahweh’s right hand. The pure hand says tradition.

Would Jesus dethrone Yahweh for the insane genocidal example he shows for a god, or would Jesus somehow justify what Yahweh, and himself to Trinitarians, did?

Would Jesus say that genocide was good?

Heaven forbid.

Condemn or Condone?

I say Jesus would condemn Yahweh.

What say you my moral friends?

Regards
DL

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I don't know, @Gnostic Christian Bishop how do you interpret Jesus's actions in Revelation 19?

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

I don't know, @Gnostic Christian Bishop how do you interpret Jesus's actions in Revelation 19?

Fictional garbage. I guess that you have not heard scholars say that Revelation almost make the cut and was only left in the bible for a snappy ending.

Do you believe literally? Yes you do, so you must think there is a real seven headed monster heading our way.

Did you have an answer to the O.P. or is that beyond your capabilities?

Regards
DL

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Fictional garbage. I guess that you have not heard scholars say that Revelation almost make the cut and was only left in the bible for a snappy ending.

Do you believe literally? Yes you do, so you must think there is a real seven headed monster heading our way.

Did you have an answer to the O.P. or is that beyond your capabilities?

Regards
DL

The part that requires study and experience is understanding the imagery of apocalyptic literature properly. As the Bible interprets itself, cross referencing and drawing in wider references is often the key to understanding. Regarding the canonicity of Revelation I know more about critical liberal scholarship (and the critiques of it) than you may realise.

Some questions you ask are the usual "Christian traps" you are fond of laying. You can find answers to these questions if you are so minded...

But I don't think that is the purpose of your question, so I will not indulge this particular line further.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Thanks for this.

Regards
DL

 

[TokiEl]

Would Jesus condemn or condone Yahweh for his crimes against humanity?


Condemn or Condone?

I say Jesus would condemn Yahweh.

What say you my moral friends?

Jesus or Yeshua or YahwehisSalvation would not condone nor condemn Yahweh because He is simply not trial material. Who would try to bring Yahweh to court ? L0L the courthouse and the court would be incinerated by summoning a consuming fire to court. No let it be and be good.

 

[phipps]

It was never God's plan that there be any death or suffering at all. When God created man, He made them to be good and perfect. It was their job to take care of the beautiful Garden of Eden and to help the animals and all the beautiful plants to live and flourish. He had plans for the earth to always be a place of peace and harmony. Unfortunately, Satan tempted and deceived Adam and Eve, and they made some very bad choices. Because they followed Satan's ideas instead of God's, death came into our world. Since that time there has been a lot of killing and sadness.

The Old Testament is an honest account of what happened after sin entered the world. Probably the most confusing part is where God sent the Flood to destroy so many, and where God's people are told to kill certain ones. The Hebrew word used in the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" means "murder." God never murders. However, the Bible includes many instances in which it was necessary for God to kill or condone killing by His people. God is not only full of mercy, He is also perfectly just, so He can be trusted to deal rightly with every person, and in these situations He knew that the threat from the godless pagans required the strongest possible measures.

The God we read about in the whole Bible is Jesus. Yahweh is Jesus, so He would be condemning Himself.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made (John 1:1-3).

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him (Colossians 1:16).

Jesus also says in John 10:30, "I and my Father are one." They agree on everything.

 

[Bacsi]

Would Jesus condemn or condone Yahweh for his crimes against humanity?

I see more than one Jesus speaking through the bible. The good Jesus would likely condemn while the less moral and good Jesus that most follow might not. A number of his policies have been found wanting, --- in moral terms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUfGRN4HVrQ

Dogma says that Jesus ascended to heaven and his rightful place as judge of the universe at Yahweh’s right hand. The pure hand says tradition.

Would Jesus dethrone Yahweh for the insane genocidal example he shows for a god, or would Jesus somehow justify what Yahweh, and himself to Trinitarians, did?

Would Jesus say that genocide was good?

Heaven forbid.

Condemn or Condone?

I say Jesus would condemn Yahweh.

What say you my moral friends?

Regards
DL

Jesus would vehemently condemn Yahveh.

Jesus in the four canonical gospels is somewhat contradictory, and the church Jesus is even more contradictory and is not the same Jesus of the gospels.

 

[Etagloc]

Why not just keep it simple and just be a simple atheist? Why dress it up with all this weird stuff?

I'm no Richard Dawkins fan but at least his type is simple, direct and without these strange gimmicks.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Jesus or Yeshua or YahwehisSalvation would not condone nor condemn Yahweh because He is simply not trial material. Who would try to bring Yahweh to court ? L0L the courthouse and the court would be incinerated by summoning a consuming fire to court. No let it be and be good.

So you would rather deflect than judge. Ok.

Like many, you fear showing your moral sense.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

It was never God's plan that there be any death or suffering at all.

You started with a lie, or showing that you do not know your bible, so I stopped reading before the end.

This quotes refutes you soundly and I should need say no more unless you are really dense.

It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Jesus would vehemently condemn Yahveh.

Jesus in the four canonical gospels is somewhat contradictory, and the church Jesus is even more contradictory and is not the same Jesus of the gospels.

U C 20/20 and have a good moral sense to boot.

I wonder why Christians do not share your qualities.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Why not just keep it simple and just be a simple atheist? Why dress it up with all this weird stuff?

I'm no Richard Dawkins fan but at least his type is simple, direct and without these strange gimmicks.

He may not recognize the benefits of seeking god the way Gnostic Christians do.

That may be why more are saying that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

I would say that the only good atheist and agnostic is a Gnostic Christian.

Regards
DL

 

[Aero]

Well, Jesus knew gods will better than anyone. And Jesus didn't come out swinging a battle ax. That leads me to believe he would probably condemn a malevolent God. So the real question for me is, was the God described in the OT malevolent or not?

The Christian Church I grew up in basically threw the Old Testament in the garbage. In fact, a lot of Christians I talk to believe that it's total crap. But I tend to feel that way about the Bible as a whole. Like it literally makes no sense as a whole book.

With that said though. I think a few books in the Bible and even the OT are absolute gems. They are just completely illogical when taken into context with the rest of the book.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Well, Jesus knew gods will better than anyone. And Jesus didn't come out swinging a battle ax. That leads me to believe he would probably condemn a malevolent God. So the real question for me is, was the God described in the OT malevolent or not?

The Christian Church I grew up in basically threw the Old Testament in the garbage. In fact, a lot of Christians I talk to believe that it's total crap. But I tend to feel that way about the Bible as a whole. Like it literally makes no sense as a whole book.

With that said though. I think a few books in the Bible and even the OT are absolute gems. They are just completely illogical when taken into context with the rest of the book.

I basically agree as I too see some good in scriptures. The literal reading that many theists do destroys that good wisdom though.

The bible is a compilation of many older thinking systems and has a lot of value if read the way a Gnostic Christian reads it. As myth, allegory and esoteric ecumenically.

That is why I am a Gnostic Christian and not an atheist.

Regards
DL

 

[Aero]

I basically agree as I too see some good in scriptures. The literal reading that many theists do destroys that good wisdom though.

The bible is a compilation of many older thinking systems and has a lot of value if read the way a Gnostic Christian reads it. As myth, allegory and esoteric ecumenically.

That is why I am a Gnostic Christian and not an atheist.

Regards
DL

Honestly, I think I would like it better if people did take it all literally. Because at least they would be consistent. But I don't think that's the cause of the effect here. The breakdown of wisdom comes from the millions of different personal interpretations. Where people are literally changing the meaning of words. Like some phrases in the bible can only be viewed negatively. So the average theist's defense mechanisms kick in.

Thus the religious spin doctors are born. Everything they are trying to promote is then lost and torn asunder. Their message no longer makes any sense and people turn to atheism. And of course, that can't be their fault. They couldn't possibly be terrible teachers. The only answer for them is the typical Christian crutch of blaming Satan.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Honestly, I think I would like it better if people did take it all literally. Because at least they would be consistent. But I don't think that's the cause of the effect here. The breakdown of wisdom comes from the millions of different personal interpretations. Where people are literally changing the meaning of words. Like some phrases in the bible can only be viewed negatively. So the average theist's defense mechanisms kick in.

Thus the religious spin doctors are born. Everything they are trying to promote is then lost and torn asunder. Their message no longer makes any sense and people turn to atheism. And of course, that can't be their fault. They couldn't possibly be terrible teachers. The only answer for them is the typical Christian crutch of blaming Satan.

Inconsistency is how the religious con men and clergy deflect questions.

I have spoken to a number of priests and preacher and deflections and liars are their middle name.

It is no wonder then that so many sheeple are leaving the churches as the newer generations are not as stupid or gullible as their parents.

Regards
DL

 

[Yahda]

One thing you got right is that there are two Jesus speaking, or two different messages should I say ? One brings peace, and greatness, come as you are, you get a mansion, you get a mansion...and the other is coming to destroy. Known in the Old Testament as the anointed one, or angel of the Lord. The same one who destroyed Sodom. Who God told to hold back his hand. I feel bad for all those thinking he’s coming to save. When in fact it will be quite the opposite.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

One thing you got right is that there are two Jesus speaking, or two different messages should I say ? One brings peace, and greatness, come as you are, you get a mansion, you get a mansion...and the other is coming to destroy. Known in the Old Testament as the anointed one, or angel of the Lord. The same one who destroyed Sodom. Who God told to hold back his hand. I feel bad for all those thinking he’s coming to save. When in fact it will be quite the opposite.

I feel sorry for all the fools who believe in supernatural garbage and have forgotten that god id to be sought, not found, and if found, killed. That is the Gnostic Christian way and the best way.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental trash that modern preachers and theists are using withthe literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said thatwhen asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg,said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would havethem do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Regards
DL

 

[phipps]

You started with a lie, or showing that you do not know your bible, so I stopped reading before the end.

This quotes refutes you soundly and I should need say no more unless you are really dense.

It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

Regards
DL

First of all, I don't appreciate you calling me dense. We may have different opinions and beliefs but that doesn't make me dense, thank you very much!

Secondly I did not lie. I believe in the Bible and that is what the Bible teaches. God never planned for Adam and Eve to sin. Adam and Eve were created with free will like we all are, so it was entirely their decision to eat the forbidden fruit. One of the greatest evidences of God’s power of love and the freedom of will He gives us is that He did create creatures such as Lucifer and Adam and Eve and others that chose to rebel. He makes His creatures free and then He appeals to their love and their senses and reason but He never forces.

Thirdly, God can't help knowing everything but that doesn't mean he has any say in the choices we all make, whether they be good or bad. So of course He being love, made plans for the atonement of our sins or we would all be lost eternally. Also there is a conflict between good and evil that started before this world was ever created. The conflict started in heaven and it ended with Satan and a third of all the angels in heaven being thrown out of heaven to this world. Paul says in Ephesians 6:12, For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. So there were other creatures in the universe observing Adam and Eve too. Would Adam and Eve listen to God or the enemy? Adam and Eve chose to listen to the devil and that made the devil set up his headquarters here in this world. Sadly the conflict between good and evil is being acted out on the stage of planet earth. However God made plans and gave us every chance to be saved. Its up to us who we choose to serve.

Goodbye.