Why is Feminism much worse than Cancer nowadays that is caused by women which keeps most men single?

[Cintra]

Ok. Lets even say that a husband sees his wife is unhappy in the marriage and does agree to counseling and fix the problem. What if hes just lame and cant make her happy, or tries too hard to fix things? What if hes just boring or doesnt feel the same way? Is that enough reason for divorce in your opinion? What if he accepts his flaws tho still affirms his love for his wife and she's unwilling to look past them.

I think once you have kids and apart from adultery or abuse there really is no justification for divorce and if there is divorce and its one sided then the woman should not have the right to take the kids, a home, and resources from the man unless its a situation she needs to escape for the wellbeing of herself and the kids...

I always thought marriage should be for life, or at least the two people should try for that.
Sadly things don't always work out that way.

My opinion, for what its worth, is that if someone left me for no good reason after promising to commit to me till death do us part, I would be angry, hurt and bitter.

It is also my opinion that property, money and especially kids should not be weaponised to score points in a break up, or to punish the other party.

If a break up must happen, if differences are unresolvable, then the two people should do everything possible to keep it civil, especially when kids are involved.

And it should be fair shares. One person should not try to beggar the other.
Stuff would have to be split, but they should remember the love they shared, that is memorialised in their kids, and do it decently and fairly.

If there is abuse, then its no holds barred for the injured party. Rip the bastard to shreds.
But I don't believe that is the case here.

 

[Cintra]

That can’t be when I said I was speaking in general in that same post. The point remains the same tho about feminism telling woman to trade submissiveness to the husband for submissiveness to the job. If you don’t have something to add or disagree with then I guess that’s it on that front...

Ok,
But I have never been submissive to a corp like that, so I have no idea what its like.
So I cant really comment on things I know nothing about.

 

[Lyfe]

The overall pay gap is attributed partially to BOTH. But even the “jobs women naturally gravitate to paying less” is an issue of sexism since the justification for that is that the people working them aren’t the primary breadwinner (a former commissioner told us this when we asked for a raise when I worked at cps btw) and work normally done by women isn’t VALUED by men as much despite the last two recessions showing us that those positions are essential to the functioning of society

if your keeping your wife financially dependent on you and you divorce, then yes she is entitled to half. Should have married a more independent woman. Never heard “cheaper to keep her”? Women don’t usually initiate divorce for no reason despite what some guys you saw on MGTOW boards claim - they have a reason to be bias in their assessment of the issue when reporting to others and I’m sure their lack of personal insight was part of the reason their women ended up leaving them to begin with

This is precisely why allot of men go MGTOW. The woman has the right to initiate divorce for reasons other than adultery and various forms of abuse. There is no protection from being a man and ending up in such a fate and this indeed does happen quite often and in most of these scenarios the man makes substantially more income. He can and does have his children, income, and even possessions taken from him. It happens all the time... Enough so for things like MGTOW to gain recognition. When does divorce become unjustified? Why are reasons other than cheating and abuse accepted as legitimate reasons to simply do this to a man? So often men have their kids taken from them and end up paying child support for kids they can rarely see that are being raised by other men.

If I am a man and I am considering that based off of statistics that there is a legitimate chance that I could never cheat on my wife or abuse her and she could still divorce me for reasons other than that and be entitled to my kids and take my possessions at the same time then I would reject such a contract. I would be weary and dubious of it and given the nature of how many marriages and relationships end up like they do. In fact the odds are fairly against me if I take the statistics into consideration.

 

[justjess]

This is precisely why allot of men go MGTOW. The woman has the right to initiate divorce for reasons other than adultery and various forms of abuse. There is no protection from being a man and ending up in such a fate and this indeed does happen quite often and in most of these scenarios the man makes substantially more income. He can and does have his children, income, and even possessions taken from him. It happens all the time... Enough so for things like MGTOW to gain recognition. When does divorce become unjustified? Why are reasons other than cheating and abuse accepted as legitimate reasons to simply do this to a man? So often men have their kids taken from them and end up paying child support for kids they can rarely see that are being raised by other men.

If I am a man and I am considering that based off of statistics that there is a legitimate chance that I could never cheat on my wife or abuse her and she could still divorce me for reasons other than that and be entitled to my kids and take my possessions at the same time then I would reject such a contract. I would be weary and dubious of it and given the nature of how many marriages and relationships end up like they do. In fact the odds are fairly against me if I take the statistics into consideration.

Please do not pretend that men don’t initiate divorce for ridiculous reasons as well. You are assuming you know the women’s reasons (you don’t, we aren’t privy to the inner workings of anyone’s marriage but our own) and assuming those reasons aren’t good enough while also assuming that men only initiate divorce for GOOD reasons - whatever they may be. Your bias is showing.

protection is called a PRENUP. If your so concerned then that’s always an option. There are usually clauses in prenups which render them null and void if the other party can prove you broke your wedding vows so it’s not ironclad but since you seem to think all men who get divorced are innocent angels robbed blind by deceitful women this shouldn’t be an issue for you.

for what it’s worth every member of my family who has been divorced the divorce was initiated by the man because he met someone younger or prettier or thinner or whatever. I’m sure you don’t give a hoot though, since that doesn’t vibe with your men as victim argument. Those men fought tooth and nail despite violating their marriage vows to deprive their ex wives of any and all support or waitEd until the kids were adults while cheating throughout all the in between times. It is what is though, right?

for every woman robbing an innocent man blind through alimony and child support there are 100 that never receive a dime from the sperm donor that helped conceive their children.

Just for the record I don’t personally believe in divorce unless in serious situations. You make a vow and you stick to that vow. Through better and worse means something to me.

Why would you keep a woman financially dependent on you if you were scared she’d take you to the cleaners? People are incredibly dumb. It isn’t even funny how stupid people are.

 

[Cintra]

Yeah, better/worse, richer/poorer, sickness/health, till death do us part.

Don't promise it unless you mean it.

 

[Lyfe]

Please do not pretend that men don’t initiate divorce for ridiculous reasons as well. You are assuming you know the women’s reasons (you don’t, we aren’t privy to the inner workings of anyone’s marriage but our own) and assuming those reasons aren’t good enough while also assuming that men only initiate divorce for GOOD reasons - whatever they may be. Your bias is showing.

protection is called a PRENUP. If your so concerned then that’s always an option. There are usually clauses in prenups which render them null and void if the other party can prove you broke your wedding vows so it’s not ironclad but since you seem to think all men who get divorced are innocent angels robbed blind by deceitful women this shouldn’t be an issue for you.

for what it’s worth every member of my family who has been divorced the divorce was initiated by the man because he met someone younger or prettier or thinner or whatever. I’m sure you don’t give a hoot though, since that doesn’t vibe with your men as victim argument. Those men fought tooth and nail despite violating their marriage vows to deprive their ex wives of any and all support or waitEd until the kids were adults while cheating throughout all the in between times. It is what is though, right?

for every woman robbing an innocent man blind through alimony and child support there are 100 that never receive a dime from the sperm donor that helped conceive their children.

Just for the record I don’t personally believe in divorce unless in serious situations. You make a vow and you stick to that vow. Through better and worse means something to me.

Why would you keep a woman financially dependent on you if you were scared she’d take you to the cleaners? People are incredibly dumb. It isn’t even funny how stupid people are.

70 percent of divorces are initiated by women. Nearly half of first marriages end in divorce. The percentage only goes higher on second and third marriages. Out of all the reasons given for divorce cheating accounts for only about a fourth of divorce(both men and women being guilty). More than half of marriages end for reasons other than cheating and abuse. Its also reported that allot more women want to their marriages to end than men do.

Regardless of the reasoning....

If you go purely off of statistics MGTOW is actually pretty logical, because despite the reasons men have more to lose in a divorce both financially and parentally.

 

[Drifter]

How can I provide proof to prove something that can only be viewed subjectively? You will argue something is bad based off of your own personal opinion. Not only that, but you wanted me to go on a google crusade and link and quote various sites and spend a good portion of my day fetching information. You can do that and spend your time here doing that.

I didnt live back then. Neither did you. You cant fully understand the context of the times. You state that patriarchy is purely anti women and that it not only subjugated them, but oppressed them. I don't know how your examples and laws failing to protect women prove that or even accurately begin to portray the life of the average woman during that time. Wives werent the only women. There were mothers, sisters, daughters, and grandmothers. To say that men didn't honor and revere these women and that these women can only identify their own male kids and grandkids, fathers, and brothers as abusive all around is an incredible statement that you haven't proven, yet keep inferring. You say that patriarchy was a system created purely with intent to exploit the weaker sex. Feminists get offended by that idea of women being the weaker sex, but it must be the weaker sex afterall if men were able to exploit you, right? I dont have all the answers your looking for and I dont pretend to, Im not going to go googling for you. To say that patriarchy and forms of governance that made up the past are at large defined by their abuse of women without proper context is incredibly irresponsible and bias.

You've been given context. You just brush it off with claims its false or biased and then dont bother to prove it. A google search takes few minutes. I'm not asking for a thesis paper on it. Look at the laws to find intent, dammit. If it was about fair treatment, equal division of labour and natural gender roles then why did so any of these laws treat women Iike property or prevent them from cultivating potential for anything outside of marriage and motherhood? You say that that's the biggest achievement for a woman but is it somehow not for men? A woman cannot get married and pregnant without a man (in a traditional relationship) so why is it that a woman's highest value is contingent on a man but a man can have the freedom to be and do anything else with being a husband and father only supplementing a full life?

I never said, not even once, that all men were abusive. I harped on about abuse becase it's one example of how the system was flawed. It's flawed not just because of a high rate of men who took advantage (like you're trying to equate with rates of child abuse) but because women are NOT in need of guardianship the way children are. I'm a woman. I have women in my life who were around that time. Several of us here keep giving exampes based on actual anecdotes from that time but you flat out refuse to acknowledge them. I dont know what more to tell you.

 

[Drifter]

It’s you who wants to discuss it tho. You go to that thread and look for my post and bring it up. I don’t feel like sifting thru and finding the posts. If you want to have the discussion go to the thread and look for my last posts and we can start from there. Start from there mind you, IN THAT THREAD. Not in this thread that has nothing to do with that topic



Again, feminism was supported by the bankers. That’s literally documented. Not to mention the push in the media it gets. The amount of feminists that are given a platform in the media. now with blacks people? When they started their movements in the civil rights era govt created a secret monitoring organization to monitor, discredit, infiltrate and ultimately dismantle their movements. Yet you’re comparing whatblack people went thru to women? The leaders of their movements were jailed, killed, or chased into exile. Guess what happened after that? The govt supported the drug cartels that were supplying the US with crack cocaine while also “cracking” down on drug users in the US with the three strikes rule. Sending people to jail to where they could then be in involuntary servitude as the 13th or 14th amendment puts it. And yet you’ll STILL compare this to what women went thru?



Yea people have all types of opinions but that’s why I posted the definitions so no matter what reasoning you tried to twist in there, everyone could see that the world help (ezer) is still in there.




“Naming doesn’t indicate hierarchy” lol. That’s laughable.If you’re arguing against that then it’s like I’m arguing with someone who will walk outside and argue with me that the sky isn’t blue. It’s pointless to continue because you’re literally arguing against reality with this one.

And no Hagar gave God a name FOR HER to address Him by because she did not know His name nor have a personal relationship with Him. If she literally gave Him a name then that name would stick when Moses came around but it didn’t. The Name God have Moses was not the name Hagar gave in her time of distress. To be comparable towhat we’re talking about the name would have had to stick.

If I hired you and said “you’re here for me but I’m not here for you” are we equal on a hierarchy ? Of course not. Yet instead of addressing that, you want to do the “what about” game.


Umm the role of a man is bigger than just giving money. Did these women go out and get food for Jesus? Did they put a roof over his head? Did they protect him from danger? Did they lead him in righteousness to God? Offfff course not.

And the Bible clearly says it gave man AND women dominion over the earth. But the man has dominion over the woman. And that’s shown when God gave multiple wives to certain men in the Bible. Or when He said that 7 women would attach themselves to one man. Or when he denigrated israel for having women and children reign over the men

You know what, you win. You are determined to stick to mistraslations, hypocritically follow rigid interpretations and I'm more than sure you've never bothered to read anything about "women's history" because like feminism, the phrase immediately raises your dander and turns off any critical thinking capabilities. Like the media doesn't push pro black movements just as much as it supposedly does feminism. You really think there's no misdirect, but of course, you need your ego stroked so this is your blindspot. And of course, you're more than willing to follow alternate recordings of history to explain why black people have always been beneath the European's boot but god forbid actual biblical scholars or linguists or theologians represent alternative readings of EVERY text you think gives you a gotcha moment for being born with a penis.

 

[justjess]

70 percent of divorces are initiated by women. Nearly half of first marriages end in divorce. The percentage only goes higher on second and third marriages. Out of all the reasons given for divorce cheating accounts for only about a fourth of divorce(both men and women being guilty). More than half of marriages end for reasons other than cheating and abuse. Its also reported that allot more women want to their marriages to end than men do.

Regardless of the reasoning....

If you go purely off of statistics MGTOW is actually pretty logical, because despite the reasons men have more to lose in a divorce both financially and parentally.

There are over 28 million divorced people in the United States. Only 400,000 alimony recipients. That is less that 2%. You seem to know all these statistics about divorce but you are basing your support for MGTOW on alimony payments when the vast majority of divorced people (98%) aren’t receiving or paying alimony. So is your problem with child support? Do you really think you only need to pay a share of raising a child if you actually live with them? That entire mentality is why the so many single mothers never receive a damn dollar in child support to begin with. You may think this is hurting those godawful feminist women. Truly it’s really hurting the children. It’s disgusting.

there are a million ways to be unhappy in a marriage - being beat up or cheated on are only two of them. No one enters a marriage dreaming about an exit plan with a monthly check. It takes two people to get to the point where that is the more attractive option. You seem to be lying the blame squarely on the shoulders of the female participant (in EVERY CASE) and this just echoes the overarching tendency I’ve seen of men abdicating responsibility for their own shit in every single one of these threads since I joined these boards a decade ago. Grow up. If you guys don’t like the current state of affairs do some introspection, acknowledge your own role, improve and help change it.

 

[justjess]

44 Percent of Custodial Parents Receive the Full Amount of Child Support

Approximately two-thirds (69.3 percent) of custodial parents who were due child support received some payments from noncustodial parents.

www.census.gov

Only 44% of custodial parents receive their full child support payment, while another 30% receive absolutely nothing. The average child support payment is $288/month. If $288/month is enough to make you turn your back on the opposite gender and commit yourself to neglecting your own children you have serious mental issues. BTW it is impossible to provide even a small fraction of a child’s needs for $288/month. Divorce is NOT A PAYDAY for the vast majority of women. If they are divorcing anyway what do you propose may be the reason?

2% of divorced men paying alimony versus 30% of divorced women never receiving even a dollar in child support and 98% never receiving a dollar in alimony. Seems a little skewed in men’s favor, huh?

 

[Lyfe]

Basing it solely on alimony payments?

Those numbers may actually mean something if it wasnt for the fact that in more than sixty percent of those first time marriages that end in divorce(which account for roughly half of all divorces that take place in general) there are children involved and eighty percent of the of the time the children go to the mother.

Do the math and present all these numbers to anyone seeking to get married. The difference is that men stand most to lose.

If I am a man there is more than a 50 percent chance my first time marriage with a woman may fail(of which there is a 70 percent chance she will initiate the divorce) and another 50 percent chance it may fail while children are involved which means they are just as good as gone. Probability wise really not giving myself the best of odds to retain my kids either. 44% of custodial parents receive child support? You mean 44% as in the 80% of women that usually win over custody?

Its no wonder men go mgtow and would refuse to be locked in a marriage contract or even have children at this point if there stands a 25 percent chance they may not even get to raise them. The potential is always there for them to lose the most.

 

[justjess]

Basing it solely on alimony payments?

Those numbers may actually mean something if it wasnt for the fact that in more than sixty percent of those first time marriages that end in divorce(which account for roughly half of all divorces that take place in general) there are children involved and eighty percent of the of the time the children go to the mother.

Do the math and present all these numbers to anyone seeking to get married. The difference is that men stand most to lose.

If I am a man there is more than a 50 percent chance my first time marriage with a woman may fail(of which there is a 70 percent chance she will initiate the divorce) and another 50 percent chance it may fail while children are involved which means they are just as good as gone. Probability wise really not giving myself the best of odds to retain my kids either. 44% of custodial parents receive child support? You mean 44% as in the 80% of women that usually win over custody?

Its no wonder men go mgtow and would refuse to be locked in a marriage contract or even have children at this point if there stands a 25 percent chance they may not even get to raise them. The potential is always there for them to lose the most.

I guess you missed my whole entire second post regarding the 70% of custodial mothers who never receive $1 in child support. Cry me a River for the 2% of divorced men that get taken to the cleaner. I’m more concerned that the vast majority of single mothers are raising their children entirely on their own financially because men like you would begrudge your own children food to get back at a woman for not wanting to sleep with you anymore.

The 44% who receive child support includes custodial FATHERS as well FYI. You would know this if you actually even glanced at the statistics I posted for you (since you seemed in the mood to harp on about statistics)

and that 44% is only of custodial parents with child support orders. It omits all the custodial parents who have no child support order and it ends up being when both are accounted for that 70% of custodial mothers never receive a single dollar.

 

[Lyfe]

I guess you missed my whole entire second post regarding the 70% of custodial mothers who never receive $1 in child support. Cry me a River for the 2% of divorced men that get taken to the cleaner. I’m more concerned that the vast majority of single mothers are raising their children entirely on their own financially because men like you would begrudge your own children food to get back at a woman for not wanting to sleep with you anymore.

Lol, what? I thought it was only 30 percent of custodial parents that dont receive ANY child support?

Thats pretty entitled wouldnt you say? To be able to take a mans kids away against his will and the man is the scum for not paying child support? Either way you went into strawman mode completely misrepresenting mgtow men again in most of that reply..

...men like you would begrudge your own children food to get back at a woman for not wanting to sleep with you anymore.

Pretty disgusting thing to say and you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[Drifter]

...men like you would begrudge your own children food to get back at a woman for not wanting to sleep with you anymore.

Pretty disgusting thing to say and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Your replies on women owing men sex in marriage and your defence of MGTOW pretty much implies exacty what Jess said . . . Thats your logic. Cry about it.

 

[Lyfe]

Your replies on women owing men sex in marriage and your defence of MGTOW pretty much implies exacty what Jess said . . . Thats your logic. Cry about it.

You are taking things out of context, again, which is typical. And yeah, I defend a mans decision to focus on himself and his own goals and put himself first rather than take the traditional route of marriage and children especially when the statistics doom his marriage and even provide roughly a 25 percent chance he may not even be able to raise his own kids under a marriage.

 

[Drifter]

You are taking things out of context, again, which is typical. And yeah, I defend a mans decision to focus on himself and his own goals and put himself first rather than take the traditional route of marriage and children especially when the statistics doom his marriage and even provide roughly a 25 percent chance he may not even be able to raise his own kids under a marriage.

You get plenty of opportunities to explain what exactly the correct context is and yet you never take them lol. Amazing how you support a movement like MGTOW and dont care for the full scope of their ideology and extremists but yet berate feminism which was founded on the premise of viewing women as actual human beings. You take them at their statistics but call all references to a wide-reaching legal history biased. Yes, you would defend a man's decision to stay single but decry a woman's. Oh but how are women supposed to find value then if all these amazing men choose not to marry? Doesnt that work against your beliefs of gender roles?

 

[justjess]

Lol, what? I thought it was only 30 percent of custodial parents that dont receive ANY child support?

Thats pretty entitled wouldnt you say? To be able to take a mans kids away against his will and the man is the scum for not paying child support? Either way you went into strawman mode completely misrepresenting mgtow men again in most of that reply..

...men like you would begrudge your own children food to get back at a woman for not wanting to sleep with you anymore.

Pretty disgusting thing to say and you should be ashamed of yourself.

30% of custodial parents with child support orders. 70% overall since there is an equal or greater share who don’t even have child support orders period. I NEVER had one and I raised my son on my own for over a decade. I NEVER received a dollar either. Or even asked for one.

no, I shouldn’t be ashamed of myself for calling a spade a spade. The men who act like that should be ashamed. You shouldn’t be defending them and you are so YOU should be ashamed. The average child support award is less than 300/month and the vast majority of non custodial fathers refuse to even pay that pittance to provide for their own children. They are disgusting failures of human beings.

 

[justjess]

Us women should start our own message boards complaining about men and sharing all our own one sided anecdotes to defame them without context... oh wait, sorry we are too busy raising their discarded children to have TIME to do all that

 

[Drifter]

Us women should start our own message boards complaining about men and sharing all our own one sided anecdotes to defame them without context... oh wait, sorry we are too busy raising their discarded children to have TIME to do all that

MGTOWBNT: Men Going Their Own Way But Not Really

You'd think for a group dedicated to have nothing to do with women that they'd have better use of their time than bitching about them on forums set up expressly for that purpose.

 

[justjess]

MGTOWBNT: Men Going Their Own Way But Not Really

You'd think for a group dedicated to have nothing to do with women that they'd have better use of their time than bitching about them on forums set up expressly for that purpose.

Honestly it’s a bit infuriating. Objective statistics clearly show that the vast majority of noncustodial fathers aren’t paying child support or alimony and the majority of men that are paying child support are paying a PITTANCE in comparison to what it actually costs to raise a child - yet the myth of the gold digging ex wife drinking martinis on the poor abused victim ex males dime continues to persist. No acknowledgment that the men spreading these stories have a vested interest in skewing their representation. None at all.

on top of the statistics all anecdotal evidence from any woman I’ve ever known shows a completely different story - men who refuse to contribute financially or otherwise to their children’s lives, men who cheat and otherwise neglect their wives fighting tooth and nail to deny them any financial support after making them give up their own careers and spend DECADES solely supporting their husbands ambitions etc etc.

I am blessed that I had a father who was an actual MAN and made it perfectly clear that this was entirely unacceptable behavior and instilled in me the skills I needed to take care of my own and the confidence I needed to never accept that kind of treatment to begin with.