The Rope Illustration that makes you think....

[Lisa]

Works can't earn salvation

That’s what I meant.

You don't think the video is a good starting point for someone to dig deeper? Approaches to sharing the gospel isn't always rushing straight in. Sometimes people are easier to reach if you take the subtle approach, appeal to them on their level and prompt a curiosity about the gospel first. Sometimes faith encounters are deeper when people themselves are the ones to seek it out as opposed to it all being laid out in front of them from the get-go. It can mean more that way.

No I don’t think people are gonna know to think there’s something more since nothing more was mentioned.

I think you're missing what I'm saying here. I didn't say there was no point to us being here and neither did the video. I think the point of all of the evil and darkness in the world is for God to truly allow us the ability to exercise our free will by choosing Him after living through our own alternatives to His ordinances. We can choose Him knowing with all conviction and certainty that His is the best way. Adam and Eve (and even the angels who fell) didn't have that certainty. We will. But our focus should not lie in this world. We can enjoy our lives, yes, but remember we're called to be in this world, not of this world. It's not a call to asceticism but a reminder that our end goal, our hope, is in the Kingdom of Heaven because then and only then can man finally be reunited with God in all fullness. Which, even if you disagree, I think will be infinitely and indescribably superior to walking by faith alone. After all, what do you think we're walking towards?

To me it seemed like the video was saying there was no point for us to be here..

I think we are walking towards reconciliation, that God began a good work in us and won’t be finished until He returns.
What I know is that God has a hope and future for me in this life..I think it’s wrong to just think of eternity because God has His plans for us here too.

 

[Robin]

That’s what I meant.

Ok, then at least we agree on that.

No I don’t think people are gonna know to think there’s something more since nothing more was mentioned.

You underestimate people. That's your opinion and it's fine but it's not necessarily true.

To me it seemed like the video was saying there was no point for us to be here..

Didn't seem that way to me or anyone else who commented and liked it so far, I think. There's a difference between saying life on Earth doesn't matter at all and merely reminding people not to focus entirely on it because the bible constantly advises us not to while the world constantly encourages the opposite short-sightedness.

I think we are walking towards reconciliation, that God began a good work in us and won’t be finished until He returns.
What I know is that God has a hope and future for me in this life..I think it’s wrong to just think of eternity because God has His plans for us here too.

True and the reconciliation at that endpoint will far exceed the best of what we experienced here. I'm pretty sure God has a plan for everyone . . . Not investing in this life doesn't mean you don't engage with it. It's about keeping your perspective, not discarding the present. The video literally says that we shouldn't become so obsessed with what happens on Earth because in comparing our time here with an eternity . . . .well, it's really not worth it. I think you've misunderstood the point of the video tbh.

 

[Camidria]

Well that’s the weird part..who’s the audience? Is it non Christians? Then where is the most important part..how do they get saved? If it’s Christians, we already know about God and salvation but why tell us that this life doesn’t matter when it does..I just don’t get it.

Edit: we know how to get saved...do non Christians if they aren’t told?

The audience is non believers and people who say they believe but they are 'Sunday Christians', people who are not born again, who have zero relationship with Jesus...

And like Robin said:

Approaches to sharing the gospel isn't always rushing straight in. Sometimes people are easier to reach if you take the subtle approach, appeal to them on their level and prompt a curiosity about the gospel first.

Non believers hearts are mostly shut so tightly, they need prompting to think....

Who do you think does the work of bringing someone into a relationship with Jesus? - It's the Holy Spirit, not us, that is why it's important to not be just blunt with how we approach people, but to do what the HOLY SPIRIT tells us to do, we are merely the messengers, if we want to help people see who Jesus is we should do what He prompts us to do, and allow Him to use us where He wants to.

The Video doesn't say this life doesn't matter, it says people focus on the worldly things in this life more than on their eternity. That doing what feels right is more important to people than realizing what you do in this life effects what happens when we die.

We want people to start THINKING about their eternity, will they keep on doing what feels nice or will they make a choice to give their hearts to Jesus and make sure they won't be lost forever.

 

[Camidria]

That’s what I meant.


No I don’t think people are gonna know to think there’s something more since nothing more was mentioned.


To me it seemed like the video was saying there was no point for us to be here..

I think we are walking towards reconciliation, that God began a good work in us and won’t be finished until He returns.
What I know is that God has a hope and future for me in this life..I think it’s wrong to just think of eternity because God has His plans for us here too.

Ok Lisa, for you things are always just black and white, straight up, what you see is what you get. What you say is what you mean, I get it.

Not everyone thinks, feels and reason the same way you do. An extremely small percentage of people will look at this video and move on without it making them think where it leads.

Our job is not to Force everything down people's throats, our job is to do what the Holy Spirit tells us to do and then allow Him to speak to them.

That's it.

 

[Lisa]

Ok, then at least we agree on that.


You underestimate people. That's your opinion and it's fine but it's not necessarily true.


Didn't seem that way to me or anyone else who commented and liked it so far, I think. There's a difference between saying life on Earth doesn't matter at all and merely reminding people not to focus entirely on it because the bible constantly advises us not to while the world constantly encourages the opposite short-sightedness.


True and the reconciliation at that endpoint will far exceed the best of what we experienced here. I'm pretty sure God has a plan for everyone . . . Not investing in this life doesn't mean you don't engage with it. It's about keeping your perspective, not discarding the present. The video literally says that we shouldn't become so obsessed with what happens on Earth because in comparing our time here with an eternity . . . .well, it's really not worth it. I think you've misunderstood the point of the video tbh.

Romans‬ ‭10:14-17‬ ‭
How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!” However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?” So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:14-17‬ ‭

​

How much closer to God can a person get when He’s in your heart? I mean really. I might have misunderstood the point of the video...but I surely don’t understand how a non Christian is going to look at it and say...hmmm...I surely need God in my life now. I really don’t.

The audience is non believers and people who say they believe but they are 'Sunday Christians', people who are not born again, who have zero relationship with Jesus...

And like Robin said:


Non believers hearts are mostly shut so tightly, they need prompting to think....

Who do you think does the work of bringing someone into a relationship with Jesus? - It's the Holy Spirit, not us, that is why it's important to not be just blunt with how we approach people, but to do what the HOLY SPIRIT tells us to do, we are merely the messengers, if we want to help people see who Jesus is we should do what He prompts us to do, and allow Him to use us where He wants to.

The Video doesn't say this life doesn't matter, it says people focus on the worldly things in this life more than on their eternity. That doing what feels right is more important to people than realizing what you do in this life effects what happens when we die.

We want people to start THINKING about their eternity, will they keep on doing what feels nice or will they make a choice to give their hearts to Jesus and make sure they won't be lost forever.

Yes, but the video gives no instruction on how to gain eternity with God. Who wants eternity with God anyway? Yep, people don’t want to die and thats it..but do they want to die and spend eternity with God? Maybe they want to spend eternity and think they don’t have to deal with God so much? But, the video surely doesn’t talk about any of that or any reason why someone would want to spend eternity with God. Its not just living for eternity..its eternity with God.

If you are going to talk to people about eternity, God and Jesus, one needs to preach the gospel at some point don’t ya think? There is a way that seems right to man but in the end it leads to death...if you don’t share the gospel then you aren’t leading anyone to God are you? Just saying...

How are the people gonna know they have to have Jesus when he’s not even preached in the video? You can’t expect people to know what you mean when you don’t share what you mean.

Ok Lisa, for you things are always just black and white, straight up, what you see is what you get. What you say is what you mean, I get it.

Not everyone thinks, feels and reason the same way you do. An extremely small percentage of people will look at this video and move on without it making them think where it leads.

Our job is not to Force everything down people's throats, our job is to do what the Holy Spirit tells us to do and then allow Him to speak to them.

That's it.

How do you think that the Holy Spirit is leading you when you don’t share the gospel? Is that what the Holy Spirit does...leaves out the gospel to try to convince people to believe? How are they gonna have Jesus when Jesus isn’t even preached? I think you go to far around to try to come at people so they will listen to you, but what you don’t understand maybe is that you MUST believe on Jesus to be saved..so at some point they will have to know about sin, about His sacrifice for their sake to have any hope to believing to be saved...you can’t not preach Jesus and expect salvation...otherwise you aren’t getting people saved are you? Why do you think there are nominal Christians anyway...

Plus, reconciliation happens here on earth with God..you can’t come to God without Jesus, not putting Jesus in a video is like saying you can.

 

[Robin]

Romans‬ ‭10:14-17‬ ‭​

How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!” However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?” So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.​

‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:14-17‬ ‭​

​

​

How much closer to God can a person get when He’s in your heart? I mean really. I might have misunderstood the point of the video...but I surely don’t understand how a non Christian is going to look at it and say...hmmm...I surely need God in my life now. I really don’t.

How about being able to physically be in His presence and live? On Earth we're still encumbered by our flesh and will be until we die. Until then we can't fully experience and appreciate true intimacy with Him. And that you don't get it is okay . . . Just keep in mind that people are different. What doesn't make sense to you could really hit home for someone else. Something that means nothing to me could be the beginning of your journey of faith. People are different and that's the awesome thing -God can use a variety of measures to reach someone's heart in ways that often spite human logic and expectation.

 

[Camidria]

Yes, but the video gives no instruction on how to gain eternity with God. Who wants eternity with God anyway? Yep, people don’t want to die and thats it..but do they want to die and spend eternity with God? Maybe they want to spend eternity and think they don’t have to deal with God so much? But, the video surely doesn’t talk about any of that or any reason why someone would want to spend eternity with God. Its not just living for eternity..its eternity with God.

If you are going to talk to people about eternity, God and Jesus, one needs to preach the gospel at some point don’t ya think? There is a way that seems right to man but in the end it leads to death...if you don’t share the gospel then you aren’t leading anyone to God are you? Just saying...

How are the people gonna know they have to have Jesus when he’s not even preached in the video? You can’t expect people to know what you mean when you don’t share what you mean.

The video opens the door so that we can share the gospel..... Did you miss the part about Paul giving his life for the mission to preach the gospel?

How do you think that the Holy Spirit is leading you when you don’t share the gospel? Is that what the Holy Spirit does...leaves out the gospel to try to convince people to believe? How are they gonna have Jesus when Jesus isn’t even preached? I think you go to far around to try to come at people so they will listen to you, but what you don’t understand maybe is that you MUST believe on Jesus to be saved..so at some point they will have to know about sin, about His sacrifice for their sake to have any hope to believing to be saved...you can’t not preach Jesus and expect salvation...otherwise you aren’t getting people saved are you? Why do you think there are nominal Christians anyway...

Plus, reconciliation happens here on earth with God..you can’t come to God without Jesus, not putting Jesus in a video is like saying you can.

We are really talking past one another...... I have never refuted the above must happen, I also never said that we cannot come to God without Jesus........ but do we force 80 plates of food down someones throat when we meet them? Here is what I hoped to achieve with the video........

Atheist sees the video,
atheist asks questions,
God opens door to share the gospel through atheist questions,
Then we share the gospel,
Atheist doesn't reject gospel or ridicules it but he/she actually thinks about it for a change because of approach used,
Holy Spirit convinces atheist of God,
Atheist finds God and becomes a believer....
We walk a path with this person teaching them everything.

But ok perhaps your approach is better, meet people, force a ton of information down their throats, they get angry and run away, it takes years for the to meet someone who will have some grace and patience to try again.....

 

[Lisa]

How about being able to physically be in His presence and live? On Earth we're still encumbered by our flesh and will be until we die. Until then we can't fully experience and appreciate true intimacy with Him. And that you don't get it is okay . . . Just keep in mind that people are different. What doesn't make sense to you could really hit home for someone else. Something that means nothing to me could be the beginning of your journey of faith. People are different and that's the awesome thing -God can use a variety of measures to reach someone's heart in ways that often spite human logic and expectation.

Sure but...no one comes to the Father but through me...they are gonna have to hear the gospel at some point..

Still...one can know God here on earth...look at Moses...He was tight with God despite his sinful nature. King David was a man after God’s own heart...don’t just be living for some future close relationship you think you’ll get with God...there’s no time like the present!

The video opens the door so that we can share the gospel..... Did you miss the part about Paul giving his life for the mission to preach the gospel?

So? What does that even do? We know Paul, does a non Christian know him? Do they even care who Paul is?

We are really talking past one another...... I have never refuted the above must happen, I also never said that we cannot come to God without Jesus........ but do we force 80 plates of food down someones throat when we meet them? Here is what I hoped to achieve with the video........

Atheist sees the video,
atheist asks questions,
God opens door to share the gospel through atheist questions,
Then we share the gospel,
Atheist doesn't reject gospel or ridicules it but he/she actually thinks about it for a change because of approach used,
Holy Spirit convinces atheist of God,
Atheist finds God and becomes a believer....
We walk a path with this person teaching them everything.

But ok perhaps your approach is better, meet people, force a ton of information down their throats, they get angry and run away, it takes years for the to meet someone who will have some grace and patience to try again.....

Who does the atheists ask the questions to? Lots of people say they have the truth...

Haha, I think you’re overthinking people’s response to the roundabout approach to sharing the gospel. I think the gospel by its very nature is hard to take because of the sinner part, you have to convince people they are so bad they need a savior, that’s a hard sell...amongst other thoughts people have about God.

What’s a ton of info? We are all sinners, sin is sin you do say or think that’s doesn’t please God. God sent His Son to take the punishment for our sins, if you believe in Jesus you will be saved and have everlasting life. The Gospel in a nutshell. Better than offering absolutely nothing on salvation. And they can think on that.

 

[Lisa]

‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:2‬ ‭
Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.
​

I remember that Paul had difficulty in preaching the gospel...I don’t think it’s supposed to be easy.

‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭11:23-28‬ ‭
Are they servants of Christ?—I speak as if insane—I more so; in far more labors, in far more imprisonments, beaten times without number, often in danger of death. Five times I received from the Jews thirty-nine lashes. Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, a night and a day I have spent in the deep. I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers on the sea, dangers among false brethren; I have been in labor and hardship, through many sleepless nights, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. Apart from such external things, there is the daily pressure on me of concern for all the churches.
​

 

[Camidria]

‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:2‬ ‭​

Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.​

​

I remember that Paul had difficulty in preaching the gospel...I don’t think it’s supposed to be easy.

‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭11:23-28‬ ‭​

Are they servants of Christ?—I speak as if insane—I more so; in far more labors, in far more imprisonments, beaten times without number, often in danger of death. Five times I received from the Jews thirty-nine lashes. Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, a night and a day I have spent in the deep. I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers on the sea, dangers among false brethren; I have been in labor and hardship, through many sleepless nights, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. Apart from such external things, there is the daily pressure on me of concern for all the churches.​

​

Thank you, you made your point, I am not disagreeing with you, but you are not getting what I am saying either, so let's just forget about it.... Moving on......

 

[Lisa]

That’s disappointing...I wouldn’t have treated you like this...

 

[Camidria]

That’s disappointing...I wouldn’t have treated you like this...

I am sorry, I am extremely, beyond words frustrated, and it feels like I can explain until I become all the colors of the rainbow and it still doesn't help. We are totally missing one another here and it feels to me also as if you are judging me..... Today has just not been my day

I'll delete it if that's what you want....

 

[Lisa]

I am sorry, I am extremely, beyond words frustrated, and it feels like I can explain until I become all the colors of the rainbow and it still doesn't help. We are totally missing one another here and it feels to me also as if you are judging me..... Today has just not been my day

I'll delete it if that's what you want....

I would like it if you did..I can take it from non Christians but from a Christian, that hurts.

 

[Camidria]

I would like it if you did..I can take it from non Christians but from a Christian, that hurts.

Done, I am sorry....

 

[Lisa]

Done, I am sorry....

Thank you and I forgive you.