The Hebrew God Revealed

[rainerann]

I liked so much of your post - but didn't give you a like

For me, I've been down the Christian road and there's no other way for me to say it - where I am now makes more sense. Not a whole lotta more sense, but more sense still. I've always travelled with the way of the heart (I know this, in looking back in my life and where I am now). The "feeling" hasn't changed and yes I know, it was an old saying that someone can be sincerely wrong . . .

I'll readily say, I haven't had nearly as much scholarship as many of the Christian posters here, though I did have some Bible school training and then further with teaching in reconciliation, there was alot of scripture on that - but TBH, I forget much of it now. My intro post kinda says how I came to this position --> that a decision made out of lack of understanding (somewhere) cannot change our spiritual standing with God, nor how He sees us either. I have full faith in that and makes complete sense [the head cannot change or alter the spirit]. How it affects our experiences though, sure, is up for some "debate" as it were. To me, that's where different spiritual thought can come into play, depending on where a person is at and helping that person to go deeper, "to a certain point", in their experience of God - but ultimately, God isn't a label/law and He doesn't take this whole thing personally [with our shortcomings and lack of understanding]. Ha, I really didn't want to get into debate, and still don't - but this is honestly my stance. I do believe He is ever present, just because. He can't be anything else. I can see both sides - that this whole thing is all lies and the other side of it, that none of it is a lie and speaks of God's Truth. There isn't any trying with Him anymore, it's only an effort on my part to listen to my heart's yearnings and see where they take me. Another way of putting it, is Brother Lawrence's idea of "practicing the presence of God", though I hadn't read the whole book back when. Just trust God. And even if we can't, God Is anyway. Though I forget sometimes, the journey is worth it.

Still haven't gone past the intro in that book you mentioned, but I like it so far . . . it has already confirmed my past experiences with religion and how subtle it can be in playing with the mind.

Well, I don't disagree with what you are saying or think that you aren't experiencing the presence of God. However, just something for you to consider, I think that you are making an assumption that accepting Christianity looks a certain way or requires agreement with certain things. In the US, many people who are Christian are also very political, which has created the assumption that certain beliefs that are political in nature are required beliefs if you say you are a Christian.

However, when I was looking at the statistics that said that there are over 2 billion people who are Christian in the world and there aren't even a billion people in the US. Even if there were, there are so many different beliefs in the US, the US couldn't even be considered a place where Christianity exists in a majority in comparison with where it exists in the world.

So Christianity does not look or sound a certain way because the majority of the church doesn't actually live in the US to create the impression that being Christian means opposing gay marriage and supporting a ban of the NFL for bending their knee.

This is something that I have noticed because I often don't agree with many of the politics of people who say they are Christian; yet, I believe in Christ.

I think a lot of people do this and this is why religion becomes such a mold that creates this sort of cloning effect that makes you think that you would have to give up some of these things you are referring to that are presently making you feel at odds with Christianity. I think you might be surprised what you don't have to give up in accepting Christ.

The point is that believing that Christ is very, very simple. It is so simple, it is like the needle in the haystack so to speak. This is what makes it so difficult to understand and so it is often described as though it were the haystack instead.

However, understanding the simplicity of the Gospel is the real key to understanding things within the spiritual realm.

I was reading 1 Kings 18 recently and thinking about a lot of the discussions we have about astral travel around here. This is the chapter that talks about Elijah and the things he was able to do. I would recommend reading this if you haven't already.

Then, I was reading about how Elisha fed a hundred people with 20 loaves (2 Kings 4:42-44) and I was reminded that not everything people say about these things is false. To feed a hundred people with 20 loaves is to collect matter from a spiritual sense in a way that manifests itself in a physical sense. That is not something we talk about in the church a whole lot and it is something that people talk about outside of the church a whole lot.

The one thing the New Testament is teaching about these things is that it is false to think that you can be powerful in these ways without repentance and acceptance of Christ. So accepting Christ is more about gaining the freedom to explore spiritual things with His protection. I will tell you greedy people want to own what can't be seen. The unseen realm is much more like the establishing of America where people are trying to claim territory. To believe in Christ is to be protected in spiritual places.

So when I say I believe in Christ, I am saying that I don't think there is a way to understand spiritual things better by not accepting Christ.

So while I don't disagree with what you are saying, I think it will be limit what you will be able to understand. In that, I don't expect anyone who doesn't know Christ to be able to explain how Elijah was able to outrun Ahab or how Elisha was able to break the loaves to feed one hundred men with 20 loaves of bread. I don't expect anyone who rejects Christ to be able to explain how this is done even though I can see that many have been trying throughout history.

I have learned many of these things growing up and even with what I remember learning when I was little, most of this still pales in comparison to what the Bible says the prophets were able to do. That is why I don't think these things will ever really be able to understand if you are rejecting Christ.

These efforts to force understanding are clearly fruitless still as most of this sort of discussion can only be made through speculation of the potential of these activities without a method for describing the way to do them.

Overall, I believe this proves that we suffer most because we limit ourselves spiritually because of rejecting Christ, not that going to Sunday service is the truest form of spiritual understanding.

It is evidenced by the incomplete work of a separate spiritual understanding while Christianity says that spiritual understanding was made complete in Him (Colossians 2:10).

I think I am repeating myself a little bit but it is only because I am struggling to put what I believe in words. I am not meaning to be pushy or anything else.

God bless.

 

[Fl-Fr-Fa]

Well, I don't disagree with what you are saying or think that you aren't experiencing the presence of God. However, just something for you to consider, I think that you are making an assumption that accepting Christianity looks a certain way or requires agreement with certain things. In the US, many people who are Christian are also very political, which has created the assumption that certain beliefs that are political in nature are required beliefs if you say you are a Christian.

However, when I was looking at the statistics that said that there are over 2 billion people who are Christian in the world and there aren't even a billion people in the US. Even if there were, there are so many different beliefs in the US, the US couldn't even be considered a place where Christianity exists in a majority in comparison with where it exists in the world.

So Christianity does not look or sound a certain way because the majority of the church doesn't actually live in the US to create the impression that being Christian means opposing gay marriage and supporting a ban of the NFL for bending their knee.

This is something that I have noticed because I often don't agree with many of the politics of people who say they are Christian; yet, I believe in Christ.

I think a lot of people do this and this is why religion becomes such a mold that creates this sort of cloning effect that makes you think that you would have to give up some of these things you are referring to that are presently making you feel at odds with Christianity. I think you might be surprised what you don't have to give up in accepting Christ.

The point is that believing that Christ is very, very simple. It is so simple, it is like the needle in the haystack so to speak. This is what makes it so difficult to understand and so it is often described as though it were the haystack instead.

However, understanding the simplicity of the Gospel is the real key to understanding things within the spiritual realm.

I was reading 1 Kings 18 recently and thinking about a lot of the discussions we have about astral travel around here. This is the chapter that talks about Elijah and the things he was able to do. I would recommend reading this if you haven't already.

Then, I was reading about how Elisha fed a hundred people with 20 loaves (2 Kings 4:42-44) and I was reminded that not everything people say about these things is false. To feed a hundred people with 20 loaves is to collect matter from a spiritual sense in a way that manifests itself in a physical sense. That is not something we talk about in the church a whole lot and it is something that people talk about outside of the church a whole lot.

The one thing the New Testament is teaching about these things is that it is false to think that you can be powerful in these ways without repentance and acceptance of Christ. So accepting Christ is more about gaining the freedom to explore spiritual things with His protection. I will tell you greedy people want to own what can't be seen. The unseen realm is much more like the establishing of America where people are trying to claim territory. To believe in Christ is to be protected in spiritual places.

So when I say I believe in Christ, I am saying that I don't think there is a way to understand spiritual things better by not accepting Christ.

So while I don't disagree with what you are saying, I think it will be limit what you will be able to understand. In that, I don't expect anyone who doesn't know Christ to be able to explain how Elijah was able to outrun Ahab or how Elisha was able to break the loaves to feed one hundred men with 20 loaves of bread. I don't expect anyone who rejects Christ to be able to explain how this is done even though I can see that many have been trying throughout history.

I have learned many of these things growing up and even with what I remember learning when I was little, most of this still pales in comparison to what the Bible says the prophets were able to do. That is why I don't think these things will ever really be able to understand if you are rejecting Christ.

These efforts to force understanding are clearly fruitless still as most of this sort of discussion can only be made through speculation of the potential of these activities without a method for describing the way to do them.

Overall, I believe this proves that we suffer most because we limit ourselves spiritually because of rejecting Christ, not that going to Sunday service is the truest form of spiritual understanding.

It is evidenced by the incomplete work of a separate spiritual understanding while Christianity says that spiritual understanding was made complete in Him (Colossians 2:10).

I think I am repeating myself a little bit but it is only because I am struggling to put what I believe in words. I am not meaning to be pushy or anything else.

God bless.

And God bless, yourself

Hard to explain myself also but it's interesting sometimes. Being political or not is not necessarily the issue, though it may very well be if that's where people find their 'joy' outside of their relationship with God. For me, it's a very simple understanding now of what His Spirit is and what Law [in any way, shape, or form] is - they are so different. The core of Christianity says we were at odds with God and further, if people think about it - that God formed us in spiritual sin (because where we were made from, who made us?) - it just doesn't fit that one can be born in sin (inherited through Adam we're told), and yet God is our Maker. It doesn't fit. So, with the core being a problem, so we were told, we had to follow the Law (even the "New Law/Covenant") to accept a sacrifice to make it not be a problem anymore, that is, to make our spirits new. Again, just because "Adam and Eve" (whomever the story may be representing) made a choice with lack of understanding [that is, to eat of the tree of Law, the knowledge of good and evil which is based on Law --> which choice we also make today when we just don't trust in His abiding presence of Life, in the Tree of Life where we get true nourishment], then that is where chaos happens in our experiences; but it doesn't change the truth. As Christians, many of us also made it a law to Believe. That's where it made sense to me in the teaching of reconciliation later, that belief wasn't necessary, because He was my belief [all of His grace poured in and through Christ towards us versus any and all works of our own righteousness]; yet, that God would wait for the salvation of everyone in due course. Only if you're curious, some reconciliation teachers are Ray Prinzing and Mike Williams, the latter believing in ultimate grace.

Again, that's where I was in my beliefs (I was a Christian for close to 20 years, so I do know what that felt like), because now, belief isn't necessary, or should I say, doesn't have to be necessary [God is patient for us to finally "get it" step-by-step]. As a Christian, I saw others different from me and now, I don't see the difference except where people get their spiritual food, and there's nothing wrong with that. Yes, protection. I agree with that, and even now, I want to "feel" that protection [not that I'm not protected, ha] but it's important to walk humbly as we explore the depths of God. I think it's only in humility, that we can be in a place of understanding more Truth.

Not sure what to say, but thank you for spending so much time on your post. I know that you wanted me to see/feel more of yourself, and I do. And who knows, maybe you see/feel a little more of me too . You're welcome to respond to this post if you'd like. It's bedtime though, now, long day tomorrow.

 

[AspiringSoul]

AspiringSoul, post: 61182, member: 112"]but yeh i know plenty of muslims who have fallen into the wrong path the same way....we don't blame islam for it so why blame kabballah?

You carry water one to many times for the wrong side dude.
edited: I am placing you on ignore.

we have a lot of stupid sensitive muslims who live in a made up world where the problem is anything but themselves.

Kabballah is not an evil system, but im sure there are people who call themselves kabballists and are serving the wrong side. Just as i know first hand there are 'muslims' cut from the same cloth.

 

[Karlysymon]

Serious question for when certain posts are deleted since the actual thread is questioning what the Bible says about the Hebrew God and bringing up alternative spiritual considerations.

I was thinking about this earlier today because we debate what is true in regard to the subject of spirituality because we all accept a definition for what a lie means.

We all agree in the existence of lies and are able to identify when a lie is being told.

So what is a lie and why is the presence of lies true?

If lies are real, what is true, and how do you really know that you don't believe a lie?

So often when I hear discussions that start going in the direction of teaching that many things can be true I wonder how this can be possible.

If it were true that many spiritual paths are possible, there would be no such thing as a lie. If everything regarding the subject of spirituality were true, a lie would never be possible in theory.

But, we know lies are possible. We have witnessed lies being told before. Therefore, it is impossible for contradictory spiritual observations to all be true. If there is a contradiction, one is true and the other is a lie.

This is where we miss a lot of what we learn from the Old Testament. We read the Old Testament and it is easy to say that there was violence so the Old Testament must be corrupt along with a number of reasons people assume that the Old Testament is corrupt.

However, the biggest reason people speculate whether the Old Testament is true or not is that the New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant. Therefore, the miracles and manifestations that were part of why the Hebrews believed in the God of Abraham no longer occur in order to validate that a certain group of people have favor with God.

With the New Covenant comes persecution on the people who believe in the God of Abraham so we believe by faith. Without this same offering of evidence that was given to the people in the Old Testament, the number of people who believe is narrowed.

Iam only saying something that i've stated elsewhere. There is such a thing as absolute truth. Truth is standard/constant/changeless (2+2=4). What i don't understand are the statements that people are searching for this truth and the search lasts a lifetime. How can absolute truth be that elusive? Has God,the source of truth sealed it away? If so, we all have a ready excuse come judgement day. There has got to be people on this earth that subscribe to spiritual truth, except for the funny fact that even those born and bred under this true faith when faced with a quater-century-life crisis will walk away from that truth to 'search for truth'. Ofcourse there are people who genuinely search and it 'arrives' much later on life (i:e Cornelius in the bible) but I also think most people have an idea on what absolute truth/pure faith is but are just playing hide and seek with God because truth in inconvienient. Thats why stories like this one will never die out. So he got on this plane as an atheist, alittle time later on, seeing the jet engine aflame and faced with the prospect of death, suddenly God and prayer became necessary. And where did the idea of God come from if on boarding the plane he was sure the Almighty was non-existent?
I just had a good laugh and shook my head...