The Bible Is Very Edited

[Alanantic]

Maybe this is because you think God agrees with the way you feel about the discussion.

Nope. That's not it.

"So many words you have learnt, so many you have spoken. You know everything, but you do not know yourself. For the self is not known through words -- only direct insight will reveal it. Look within, search within. If you keep on trying, something may happen. But if you don't, you are stuck. You may know all the right words, quote the scriptures, be brilliant in your discussions and yet remain a bag of bones. Or you may be inconspicuous and humble, an insignificant person altogether, yet glowing with loving kindness and deep wisdom."
Nisargadatta

 

[Karlysymon]

The point was brought up, that God is 'everywhere' and not in a specific place so why would we choose to face a certain place.
Are you denying that God manifested in a specific place for the Israelites to worship Him? What is it called, the Shekinah, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shekhinah

In islam, the kaba is a symbol of Allah's divine presence.
It is our Qibla
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibla


From whencesoever Thou startest forth, turn Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque; that is indeed the truth from the Lord. And Allah is not unmindful of what ye do. So from whencesoever Thou startest forth, turn Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque; and wheresoever ye are, Turn your face thither: that there be no ground of dispute against you among the people, except those of them that are bent on wickedness; so fear them not, but fear Me; and that I may complete My favours on you, and ye May (consent to) be guided;
— Qur'an, sura 2 (Al-Baqara), ayat 149 - 150[12]

this is exactly the same for israelites/jews when facing the temple mount.

Ofcourse it is well known that muslims pray facing east, because of the Kaba but i've always wondered if there's more to that.....
The Jewish temple was built in a way that the altar faced west, so when the congregants stood up or knelt in worship, they had their backs to the east/the rising sun. The reason for that was so the Israelites weren't enticed into sun worship (Ezekiel 8)
All Catholic churches are built with the altar/pulpit facing east. Why? Likely, the argument is the same as in Islam, facing Jerusalem/Mecca. But there isn't a temple standing nor housing the Shekinah. Some Anglican churches are built that way aswell. Its only a handful of denominations that purposefully erect their houses of worship, after the ancient temple, with the altar facing west.

Then, let's just say that the Temple is rebuilt in Jerusalem and there's a repeat of the events as when Solomon dedicated the temple, you know, fire to consume the sacrifices and the cloud enveloping the Most Holy place. Will this statement of yours hold?

In islam, the kaba is a
symbol of Allah's divine
presence.

And what will you think about your own faith, Judaism and Christianity as those events unfold? We can't all be right, you know...

 

[AspiringSoul]

Ofcourse it is well known that muslims pray facing east, because of the Kaba but i've always wondered if there's more to that.....
The Jewish temple was built in a way that the altar faced west, so when the congregants stood up or knelt in worship, they had their backs to the east/the rising sun. The reason for that was so the Israelites weren't enticed into sun worship (Ezekiel 8)
All Catholic churches are built with the altar/pulpit facing east. Why? Likely, the argument is the same as in Islam, facing Jerusalem/Mecca. But there isn't a temple standing nor housing the Shekinah. Some Anglican churches are built that way aswell. Its only a handful of denominations that purposefully erect their houses of worship, after the ancient temple, with the altar facing west.

Then, let's just say that the Temple is rebuilt in Jerusalem and there's a repeat of the events as when Solomon dedicated the temple, you know, fire to consume the sacrifices and the cloud enveloping the Most Holy place. Will this statement of yours hold?

In islam, the kaba is a
symbol of Allah's divine
presence.

And what will you think about your own faith, Judaism and Christianity as those events unfold? We can't all be right, you know...

How would that negate the Kaba being our Qibla?
God's divine presence has descended in more than one place in the past you know?


fyi, Salat Zuhr (the second prayer) is prayed after noon...usually around 1-2pm but it was not done exactly at noon because that was when pagans worshipped the sun.

 

[Karlysymon]

How would that negate the Kaba being our Qibla?
God's divine presence has descended in more than one place in the past you know?

Yeah, that maybe true, but given the times, how is a divine manifestation meant to vindicate faiths that are diametrically opposed to each other?

 

[z gharib]

I honestly think it's a good thing there's no bust of Jesus. People would definitely worship it. Look at the Kaaba in Islam. Muslims swear up and down that idol worship is forbidden and yet they bow, kiss, and pray before an object that isn't God.

false -we do not worship kaaba

 

[elsbet]

false -we do not worship kaaba

Interesting.

I thought everybody kissed it to remove sins or something.

 

[z gharib]

you guys are showing me the perfection of islam -you cant critiscise islam without resorting to lie and insulting
please read Quran -peace

 

[z gharib]

Interesting.

I thought everybody kissed it to remove sins or something.

religious dialog shoudnt have to be in this kind of ---like football fans ,nor like politicians -God is sulf sufficient praisworthy, to make him
g reat i dont have to lie i dont have to insult others -

 

[elsbet]

religious dialog shoudnt have to be in this kind of ---like football fans ,nor like politicians -God is sulf sufficient praisworthy, to make him
g reat i dont have to lie i dont have to insult others -

?
I'm not sure what you mean here, tbh. I thought that was the purpose of the Kaaba and the stone (turned black from sin, no?). If that is offensive to you, then that's certainly unfortunate. Feel free to correct on its true purpose.

 

[Violette]

false -we do not worship kaaba

As an onlooker, it looks like idolatry to me. Seeing so many people bowing before this "holy" object looks a little sketchy. There also seems to be little evidence to support Abraham having anything to do with building it. Some questions I found after reading more about the Kaaba:

• If Abraham built the Kaaba and instituted Hajj (Quran 22:26–27), why is it not recorded in other religious texts to have been performed by his son Isaac, grandson Jacob, or great-grandson Joseph, who were all prophets in Islam and promised to follow in the faith of their forefathers (Quran 2:133)?
• Why wasn’t Moses — a prophet which proceeded Abraham — instructed in the Torah to make a pilgrimage to Mecca?

 

[Karlysymon]

I, too, asked a couple of similar questions here

https://www.vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/why-do-you-think-jesus-is-the-son-of-god.629/page-12

 

[Kung Fu]

Nope. I know what he is.
Just dragging it into the light.

Then instead of ignoring my response why don't you answer it? Instead of patting one another on the back for no reason prove me wrong.

 

[Haich]

This is still going on?

No one worships the Kabah.

It's not a magic cube which erases your sins. The pilgrimage and prayer is when you ask for your sins to be erased. The Kabah is a symbol of unity.

Your insistence is quite sad, you've formulated your own version of Islam and your ignorance is astounding.

Carry on disregarding the corrections the Muslims on here made, God clearly made some of you deaf and blind.

 

[Kung Fu]

As an onlooker, it looks like idolatry to me. Seeing so many people bowing before this "holy" object looks a little sketchy. There also seems to be little evidence to support Abraham having anything to do with building it. Some questions I found after reading more about the Kaaba:

• If Abraham built the Kaaba and instituted Hajj (Quran 22:26–27), why is it not recorded in other religious texts to have been performed by his son Isaac, grandson Jacob, or great-grandson Joseph, who were all prophets in Islam and promised to follow in the faith of their forefathers (Quran 2:133)?
• Why wasn’t Moses — a prophet which proceeded Abraham — instructed in the Torah to make a pilgrimage to Mecca?

It's in the OT but you only cherry pick verses instead of reading all of it in its entirety as proven when I later provided verses that showed everything the Muslims do Abraham(pbuh) and his lineage did as well. Instead of getting others to do all your homework for you perhaps you should sit back, relax, and actually read the OT instead of only reading verses that vaguely reinforce verses in the NT.

 

[Kung Fu]

You're expecting evidence instead of smoke tactics ?! Don't hold your breath.

Funny how you talk about holding your breath but yet you haven't once shown me evidence and or original manuscripts for your many Bible interpolations. Prove to me and other Biblical scholars that they're not Bible interpolations. Give us a missing link that the 2-3 other older Bibles missed?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Funny how you talk about holding your breath but yet you haven't once shown me evidence and or original manuscripts for your many Bible interpolations. Prove to me and other Biblical scholars that they're not Bible interpolations. Give us a missing link that the 2-3 other older Bibles missed?

With respect, if you care about this question I have linked some good resources that very much answer your queries. As I have looked into these issues, partly spurred on by your questions, the answers I have found have very much deepened my faith.

I started with "A Case for Christ", then "Cold Case Christianity" then went to several works by Bill Cooper (these we're very good).

Whilst you may remain unimpressed by what you have read, @Kung Fu, for anyone for who these issues are a genuine question, I really recommend the journey.

 

[elsbet]

Then instead of ignoring my response why don't you answer it? Instead of patting one another on the back for no reason prove me wrong.

Oh, did you go back and cite sources?
I'll take a look.

 

[z gharib]

[QUOTdisappointedsbet, post: 66752, member: 519"]?
I'm not sure what you mean here, tbh. I thought that was the purpose of the Kaaba and the stone (turned black from sin, no?). If that is offensive to you, then that's certainly unfortunate. Feel free to correct on its true purpose.[/QUOTE]
I am disappointed by z general atmosphere of the argument not on you ....peace

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

As I understand, into this rather cubic-sounding "most holy place" the High Priest of Israel alone had yearly to take some blood, that of a sacrificial animal, to atone for Israel's sins. In an obvious split both with and from Judaism, the author of Hebrews has Jesus become the High Priest who offered his own instead of an animal's blood.

"The inner room or cell of the sanctuary, termed also the "miḳdash ha-ḳodesh" ... is known as the "Holy of Holies" ... As such it comprised that smaller western part of the Tabernacle, the "mishkan," which was divided off from the remainder of the meeting-tent by a curtain or veil suspended from four pillars of acacia overlaid with gold and having sockets of silver ... The cell was cubelike in shape, being 10 ells high, 10 ells long, and 10 ells broad. It contained the Ark of the Covenant.

In Solomon's Temple the Holy of Holies formed a part of the house of Yhwh ... which was 60 cubits in length, 20 cubits in breadth, 30 cubits in height, and built of stone ... The section farthest from the entrance, designated also as the "debir" (the "oracle" "the most holy place,"... ), was 20 cubits high and presented the shape of a cube. "

Source

"I will be like the Most High..."

If you wanted to think well of the speaker of those words, you might say "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery".

 

[Lady]

religious dialog shoudnt have to be in this kind of ---like football fans ,nor like politicians -God is sulf sufficient praisworthy, to make him
g reat i dont have to lie i dont have to insult others -

And for that, I respect you.