some random thoughts on the God of the old testament.

[Zakat]

being blinded by your arrogance to your own ignorance.

Ya right, you've become the best of all judges now, tsk.

 

[AspiringSoul]

No, Jesus did NOT say nor do that. It's your arrogance/ignorance that makes you believe in such totally blasphemous NONSENSE.

Why don't you read the entire passage in context, to see what Jesus really said?

King of kings' Bible - John 8:25-38 (KJV 8:34-8:47)
8:25 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the prisoner of sin.
8:26 And the prisoner abideth not in the prison-house for ever (only until The Reaping): [but] the Son Liveth for ever.
8:27 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
8:28 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my Word (the Truth) hath no place in you.
8:29 I speak that which I have seen with my Father (YHWH): and ye do that which ye have seen with your father (Lucifer - Satan).
8:30 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, IF ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham (Sura 16:123; 60:4).
8:31 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the Truth, which I have heard of God: this did NOT Abraham.
8:32 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, [even] God.
8:33 Jesus said unto them, IF God WERE your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but He sent me.
8:34 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my Word.
8:35 Ye are of [YOUR] father the devil, and the lusts of your father (Lucifer/Satan/Iblis) ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the Truth, because there is no Truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father (inventor) of it.
8:36 And because I tell [you] the Truth, ye believe me not.
8:37 Which of you convicteth me of sin? And if I say the Truth, why do ye not believe me?
8:38 He that is of God heareth God's Words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God.


YHWH (the "I AM", aka God, our heavenly Father, Allah) has COMMANDED everyone on this planet, in His Law (found ONLY in the first five books of the Bible, namely: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, NOT to murder anyone. Murder is a capital crime under God's Law, as everyone knows, or should know (Exod. 21:12).

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt NOT murder (kill un-Lawfully).

Deuteronomy 5:17 Thou shalt NOT murder (kill un-Lawfully).

The "Jews" have NEVER kept The Law that God gave us, exactly as Jesus said.

John 7:19 Did not Moses give you The Law, and [yet] NONE of you keepeth The Law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Judaism is based NOT upon God's Law, but upon the TALMUD which, like the hadith, was satanically fabricated in violation of God's Law (Deut. 4:2; 12:8; 12:32).

If you would like to learn more about the "Jews", please read and study the articles at the links below:

Them Which Say They Are Jews But Are NOT

An honest look at modern Jewry and its global impact, which cuts through the hatred and lies that surround true Israel and their King: The Messiah.

gibraltar-messenger.net

Babylon Revealed

An in-depth article series that reveals in detail where and how ancient Babylon migrated, transformed and infiltrated every worldly institution today.

gibraltar-messenger.net

The term "Jew" is one of the most misunderstood and misused words in the world. Over 95% of the baby-murdering counterfeit-Jews today are, by their own admission, Ashkenazis, and thus are not even Semites.

1)
Deuteronomy 20:16 says

16 However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy[a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God.


so back to what Jesus said in John 8...
Jesus also fully accepted that the allowance of divorce was from God's LAW but then rejected it saying it was only given 'BECAUSE YOU WERE CRUEL'.
this is central to my whole point. A law given by God, to a cruel people...and that law itself is cruel by the standards of Jesus Christ.
it is a reflection ie a thoughtform, not the real God.

Deuteronomy 20:16 is satanic....and yet, it is also divine.
how so? HIKMAH/WISDOM....
much like the teachings of Paul, we have to understand this stuff is layered. There is an intention here...the least of which is 'will they blindly acceptt his or challenge it?'

who is more worthy, the one who is true to the highest ideals or the one derped by 'dat ancestry God dat, he will burn you if you question dat'

you think when i die, ill be thrown in hell for saying Deuteronomy 20:16 was satanic?
in fact, muslims get around this by rejecting the bible as corrupt....
yet im the only one who holds it to be divine and satanic at the same time...and i explained why. There is a higher intent and hikmah behind this all...it is Divine in that sense, but it isn't one dimentional.

All the suffering and questioning of God's intent by the prophets in the old testament, proves a perpetual problem in human nature and our relationship with rhe primordisal power.
it is a struggle against our own self/nature.

and hence
He who knows himself knows his Lord

of course in Advaita Vedanta (a branch of hinduism, more a philosophy thjan a religion) this is also understood. AVIDYA ignorance, misconceptions, misunderstandings, incorrect knowledge
in hinduism there were many powerful entities...and each one claimed to be THE Creator. Even in the bible era, when Baal was seen as THE God, people didnt worship Baal as some type of spirit being who is powerful, but as THE CREATOR GOD.
so imagine different powerful entities all claiming to be THE God and they all have ego.
Yahweh is in no way morally superior to any of them. The only claim Yahweh had above the others was 'im your ancestor's God, don't you trust me?'


2) in the Quran, the bible is fully backed eg 5:43-48
however, even then the Quran says things like
And He will teach him the Scripture and wisdom, and the torah and the Gospel,
(سورة آل عمران, Aal-i-Imraan, Chapter #3, Verse #48)
context THE BOOK/Scripture referred to is the entire old testament, not just the Torah.
The Quran always mentions wisdom/hikmah along with the scripture.


muslims get around the problem as i said, by rejecting the torah. this allows them some type of ignorant upper hand over the christians and jews most of them time, until someone who's studied the Quran (actually in sam shamoun's case, it's my own posts, because im the one who made these arguments first)

However 5:43-48 means no muslim is allowed to reject the torah, call it corrupt etc. The corruption the Quran refers to as 'changed the word of Allah' pertains to false translations/interpretations which is ironic because muslims not only corrupted the Quran in the same way, even the very verse referring to said corruption is itself corrupted in meaning.

im the only muslim i know, who can accept the Torah as divine, but also see through the flaws within it eg i accept it only insofar as i see God's wisdom in it.

Jesus rejecting the law of divorce 'because you were cruel' is one notable example of an actual prophet of God, directly acknowledging the legitimacy of God's law but also implying it is a direct reflection of those people. My entire point.


3) zecharia 13, luke 21...
the synagogue of satan is the camp that was turfed out of the holy land. then they mixed with the blood of gomer. they are jews, but they are not the chosen ones/the remnant of zechariah 13.
the palestinians are.
it is a battle between the true remnant and the synagogue of satan.

 

[A Freeman]

1)
Deuteronomy 20:16 says

16 However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy[a] them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you. 18 Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God.

Yes, it does. But you seem to be clueless as to why. Please see the verse in context:

Deuteronomy 20:10-18
20:10 When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.
20:11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, [that] all the people [that is] found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.
20:12 And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:
20:13 And when the "I AM" thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:
20:14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, [even] all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the "I AM" thy God hath given thee.
20:15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities [which are] very far off from thee, which [are] NOT of the cities of these nations.
20:16 But of the cities of these people, which the "I AM" thy God doth give thee [for] an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
20:17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; [namely], the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the "I AM" thy God hath COMMANDED thee:
20:18 That they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so should ye sin against the "I AM" your God.

The reason for this COMMAND is very simple, logical, loving and merciful for all involved, and it is explained in verse 20:18.

God created all of the people of the Earth, but He specifically chose the people Israel to be set apart from the rest of the world, and to be a peculiar people unto Him.

Deuteronomy 14:2 For thou [art] an holy people unto the "I AM" thy God, and the "I AM" hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto Himself, above all the nations that [are] upon the earth.

What was to make Israel peculiar was their willingness to SERVE and obey God and His Law/Commands, trusting that God is The Best Planner, and ALWAYS does what is best for ALL concerned. In a word: people with FAITH (trust in God).

The Israelites were NEVER meant to be a "master race"; they were only meant to be a demonstration people to the rest of the world.

Through learning obedience to God, the persistent doing of His Will, and teaching their children, and their grandchildren and their descendants to do the same, the nation of Israel would become a shining example to the rest of the world of how wonderful and blessed it really is to live by God’s Perfect Law of Liberty (Deut. 28:1-14).

Of course the surrounding nations would see the blessings God would bestow on Israel as promised and, out of jealousy, attack Israel but, also as God promised, He would defend the people/nation of Israel, fighting their enemies for them. And once defeated, their neighboring enemies would ask Israel what they could do to share in the blessings, and would be invited to join the nation of Israel under one condition: that they too keep God’s Law. This was to be the grafting in of the Gentile nations INTO Israel.

Thus the borders of Israel would then be expanded, and the process would repeat itself, until the entire world would become Israelites, keeping God’s Law and enjoying the BLESSINGS, FREEDOM, PEACE and SAFETY that only God can provide.

But that didn’t happen because Israel, like you, questioned God’s Perfect Plan, believing in their arrogance/ignorance that they knew better than God, and wanted to be like the nations ‘round about them, with a human leader/king, instead of with God as their King (1 Sam. 8). And the entire world has been suffering under injustice and oppression ever since then, because of Israel's disobedience.

God’s PERFECT Plan depends upon people following it of their own free-will, and it begins on the firm foundation of The Law/Word of God (in every form). What humans will NEVER understand (John 3:3-7) is that all of this training is for the SOULS (Jinns/spiritual-Beings) that are temporarily “locked” (incarnated) inside of the human they see in the mirror. EVERY SOUL MUST NOT ONLY LEARN TO TRUST AND OBEY GOD, BUT TO GET TO KNOW GOD PERSONALLY AS THE LOVING, ALL-POWERFUL FATHER/CREATOR THAT HE REALLY IS.

The Soul that continues to be a prisoner to sin (i.e. an unrepentant criminal) shall SURELY die in The Fire on Judgment Day (Ezek. 18; Rev. 20:12-15; Sura14:48-52; Sura 18:53).

Sura 7:40-41
7:40. To those who reject Our Signs and treat them with arrogance, no opening will there be of the gates of heaven, nor will they enter The Garden, until the camel can pass through the eye of the needle: such is Our reward for those in sin (and riches - Matthew 19:23-24).
7:41. For them there is Hell-Fire, as a couch (below) and folds and folds of covering above: such is Our requital of those who do wrong.

Had the Israelites under Joshua done as they were COMMANDED, and purged the Promised Land of ALL of its people, ALL of whom were SOULS that had committed horrific crimes in their current and/or previous human lives, those SOULS (Jinns/spiritual-Beings) could have been sent back into human families descended from the sons of Jacob/Israel, being taught each generation to keep God’s Law, instead of being taught all of the satanic rules, traditions and ridiculous religious superstitions that have plagued the world since Lucifer/Satan/Iblis invented these lies.

This has been a repeating theme throughout human history, with God giving each and every SOUL on this planet the best possible opportunity to be rehabilitated, i.e. to learn to be able to differentiate between good and evil and to choose to be good of their own free-will. All God has ever wanted is for us to stop being so stupid, selfish and evil, and instead learn to play nicely with one another, so that we can eventually be released from this prison planet.

This is exactly what the flood was about. Noah and his family were spared, while every other human on Earth drowned. This released the spiritual-Beings/Souls/Jinns inside of those selfish, evil human bodies, so they could be sent back inside bodies descended from the sons of Noah, and learn how to be good, i.e. learn how to stop sinning/breaking God’s Law, which fills this world with violence, hatred, injustice and oppression.

We have all been given many human lifetimes to come to our senses and turn back to God, so that He can teach us how to be good. Instead, we have chosen to learn the satanic ways of this world, which teaches greed and selfishness, and that we are “only humans” which is nothing more than a ready-made excuse to continue doing evil to one another. And then we wonder why we are on the brink of the final world war and total annihilation.

These end-times we are currently experiencing will be just like the times of Noah (Matt. 24:37-39), only this time, instead of water – which only drowns the human bodies and thus gives the SOULS another opportunity to repent and turn back to God – it will be The Fire, which destroys both soul and body.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell-fire.

The world will then begin again after The Fire with the 144,000 SOULS who are genuinely determined to keep God’s Law and love one another.

No one else, regardless of how smart or religious they believe themselves to be, will survive.

 

[A Freeman]

so back to what Jesus said in John 8...

Jesus also fully accepted that the allowance of divorce was from God's LAW but then rejected it saying it was only given 'BECAUSE YOU WERE CRUEL'.

The PEOPLE were cruel/selfish/hard-hearted toward one another, NOT God’s Law, the latter of which is merciful and just for all.

You seem to forget, or intentionally overlook the fact that Christ was sent in the body of Jesus – the unlettered Prophet (Sura 7:157-158) – NOT to teach His own doctrine, but to teach God’s Law (Matt. 5:17-20; John 7:15-17; Sura 61:6-7).

this is central to my whole point. A law given by God, to a cruel people...and that law itself is cruel by the standards of Jesus Christ.

Again, the fault has ALWAYS been with us, NOT with God and His Law, which we PROMISED (Covenanted) to keep (Deut. 27:26). And, as Christ said, He did NOT come to destroy The Merciful and Just Law of God, which you satanically call "cruel".

Hebrews 8:7-12
8:7 For IF that first [Covenant] had been [followed] faultlessly, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8:8 FOR FIND FAULT WITH THEM, He saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a New Covenant with the House of Israel [ten "Lost" tribes] and with the House of Judah:
8:9 Not according to The Covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued NOT in My Covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
8:10 For this [is] The Covenant that I will make with the House of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put My Laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to Me a people:
8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know Me, from the least to the greatest.
8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Matthew 5:17-20
5:17 Think NOT that I am come to destroy The Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill [to fully preach The Law (The Torah) and fulfill the prophecies about the first coming of the Messiah].
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no way pass from The Law, till all be fulfilled.
5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least COMMANDments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the LEAST in The Kingdom of heaven (the lowest of the low): but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in The Kingdom of heaven.
5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall EXCEED [the righteousness] of the lawyers and politicians, ye shall in no case enter into The Kingdom of heaven.

 

[A Freeman]

it is a reflection ie a thoughtform, not the real God.

According to whom? A very simple example to illustrate just how irrational your satanic conclusion is would be adultery.

Under God’s Law, adultery is a capital crime (Exod. 20:14; Deut. 22:22). That means those who commit adultery are immediately executed for it once their crime is discovered.

While this penalty may seem “cruel” to humans, who want to have the freedom to sleep around, regardless of the consequences to others, it actually PREVENTS adultery, and places family FIRST. It should only take one time of witnessing TWO individuals (the man and the woman) being stoned to death to drive home the point that infidelity isn’t worth it.

Under the fabricated rules and traditions of men, the penalty for adultery has been eliminated. And what is the result of this “leniency”? Over 50% of first-time marriages today end in divorce. Over 67% of second-time marriages end in divorce. And over 75% of third-time marriages end in divorce. Divorce (betrayal) always leaves its scars on all involved.

From these divorces comes broken homes, where BILLIONS of children are made to suffer, from the anguish and heart-ache of being shuffled between two houses, and having the family's financial resources divided. And of course they too are trained to repeat the same mistake as their parents did, i.e. putting their own personal selfishness above the good of the family.

So much for your thoughtless “thoughtform”.

Isaiah 55:8-9
55:8 For My thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways My ways, saith the "I AM".
55:9 For [like] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.

Deuteronomy 20:16 is satanic....and yet, it is also divine.

how so? HIKMAH/WISDOM....

This isn’t wisdom though; it’s double-mindedness, aka someone suffering from cognitive dissonance (holding two conflicting thoughts in one’s mind at the same time, and suffering under the mental stress/sickness that causes).

James 1:8 A double minded man [is] UNSTABLE in ALL his ways.

 

[A Freeman]

much like the teachings of Paul, we have to understand this stuff is layered. There is an intention here...the least of which is 'will they blindly acceptt his or challenge it?'

This is just another way of Lucifer/Satan/Iblis using people’s egos to con them into believing there is “gray area” in between good and evil, where “smart” people decide what’s acceptable and what isn’t.

Isaiah 5:20-21
5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for Light, and Light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
5:21 Woe unto [them that are] wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

who is more worthy, the one who is true to the highest ideals or the one derped by 'dat ancestry God dat, he will burn you if you question dat'

Logically, if one honestly examines the total mess we’ve made of this world doing things “our way” (Deut. 12:8), it should be self-evident that this is a lunatic asylum, where the most insane actually believe they are “smart” and are leading those fool enough to follow them to their destruction (Isa. 3:12).

Psalm 111:10 The fear of the "I AM" [is] the beginning of Wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [His Commandments]: His praise endureth for ever.

you think when i die, ill be thrown in hell for saying Deuteronomy 20:16 was satanic?

The fact that you are talking about “your” death as if you are the human you are temporarily incarnating, indicates you still don’t even understand who or what you are, much less where such evil thoughts originate, doesn’t it? From Paul’s letter to the Romans:

Romans 8:5-8
8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] DEATH (Ezek. 18:4; Rom. 6:23); but to be spiritually minded [is] LIFE and PEACE (John 3:5-6).
8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to The Law of God, neither indeed can it be.
8:8 So then they that are in the ways of flesh cannot please God.

in fact, muslims get around this by rejecting the bible as corrupt.…

Agreed. Because they do this by choosing to accept the word of their spiritually blind imams and the satanic hadith instead of what it says in the Koran/Quran (thereby committing shirk - partnering their made-up rules/lies with God's Word/Truth), where we are assured that the Bible can NEVER be corrupted:

Sura 15:9-10
15:9. We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
15:10. We did send Apostles BEFORE thee amongst the religious sects (John 17:21; Sura 6:159) of old:

Sura 32:23. We did indeed aforetime give The Book (The Torah) to Moses: be then NOT IN DOUBT of its (The Torah) reaching (THEE): and We made it a Guide to the Children of Israel.

 

[A Freeman]

yet im the only one who holds it to be divine and satanic at the same time...and i explained why. There is a higher intent and hikmah behind this all...it is Divine in that sense, but it isn't one dimentional.

All the suffering and questioning of God's intent by the prophets in the old testament, proves a perpetual problem in human nature and our relationship with rhe primordisal power.

it is a struggle against our own self/nature.

and hence

He who knows himself knows his Lord

Yes, but anyone who isn’t seeing reality through spiritual eyes isn’t truly seeing their “self” (the ego), and doesn’t know the difference between the human flesh with its carnal mind, and the Soul/Jinn/spiritual-Being that is the REAL you.

WITH God, every spiritual-Being can and MUST learn to serve God and their fellow-Beings, which absolutely is possible (Matt. 19:26). Through that humility, of knowing and learning to control our “self”, and getting to know our loving, kind and merciful God, we are given TRUE WISDOM.

Continuing to work AGAINST God and our fellow-Beings, to serve our own selfishness and materialistic human desires, we will remain in confusion until we find ourselves in The Fire. The choice, as always, is ours to make.

of course in Advaita Vedanta (a branch of hinduism, more a philosophy thjan a religion) this is also understood. AVIDYA ignorance, misconceptions, misunderstandings, incorrect knowledge

As above please. The Bhagavad Gita reiterates that the daily self-crucifixion taught throughout Scripture is the key to true Wisdom.

Luke 9:23 And he said to [them] all, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Luke 14:26-27
14:26 If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own (human) life also, he can NOT be my disciple.
14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, can NOT be my disciple.

Sura 6:162. Say: "Truly, my prayer and my (daily) service of "Self" sacrifice (Luke 9:23; 14:26-27), my life (of selflessness) and my death (to "Self"), are (all) for "I AM", the Cherisher of the Worlds:

From the Bhagavad Gita -
8:28 A person who accepts the path of devotional service is not bereft of the results derived from studying the Vedas, performing austere sacrifices (Matt. 10:38, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Gal. 2:20, Sura 6:162), giving charity or pursuing philosophical and fruitive activities. At the end he reaches the supreme abode.

in hinduism there were many powerful entities...and each one claimed to be THE Creator.

Who cares? Hinduism is just another EVIL organized religion, like Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc. ALL organized religions are polytheistic, regardless of how they advertise themselves to their gullible victims/customers.

Even in the bible era, when Baal was seen as THE God, people didnt worship Baal as some type of spirit being who is powerful, but as THE CREATOR GOD.

so imagine different powerful entities all claiming to be THE God and they all have ego.

And yet somehow you don’t seem to be able to see the satanic nature that all of these have in common. It is Lucifer/Satan/Iblis who manipulates and controls mankind through the ego/”self” into believing his nonsense, by offering the human/flesh pleasures, treasures and the false knowledge known as "religion", “science” and intellectualism (1 Tim. 5:20).

And why does he (Satan, the Opposer) do this? To dupe people into believing they know better than God, so he can continue to deceive them into disobeying God.

Yahweh is in no way morally superior to any of them. The only claim Yahweh had above the others was 'im your ancestor's God, don't you trust me?'

No wonder you’re so confused. There can be only ONE God. And there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD (Mark 12:29-31). And He has sent His Messenger/Christ to deliver His Message of TRUTH to those who accept it, among the tares and goats who never will.

John 17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, and Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.

 

[A Freeman]

2) in the Quran, the bible is fully backed eg 5:43-48

Agreed.

Sura 2:53, 2:87-93,2:97-98, 3:1-3, 3:48-50, 4:47, 4:54, 5:46-51, 6:91-94, 6:154-157, 7:157, 9:111, 10:37, 11:17, 12:111, 15:9-10, 17:2-4, 21:48, 22:52, 23:20, 23:49, 25:35, 28:1-3, 32:23, 35:25-32, 37:117, 40:53, 40:70, 41:45, 42:14-17, 45:16, 46:12, 46:30, 48:29, 53:36-47, 57:25-29, 61:6-7, 78:2

however, even then the Quran says things like

And He will teach him the Scripture and wisdom, and the torah and the Gospel,

(سورة آل عمران, Aal-i-Imraan, Chapter #3, Verse #48)

Speaking of Christ, while Christ was incarnated inside of Jesus, the “unlettered Prophet” taught directly by God, rather than by men.

John 5:19-20
5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever He doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and showeth him all things that Himself doeth: and He will show him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

John 7:15-17
7:15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man "Letters", having never been taught?
7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me.
7:17 If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself.

Sura 7:157-158
7:157. Those who follow The Apostle, the unlettered Prophet (John 7:15), whom they find mentioned in their own (Scriptures - the Bible),- in The Law (The Torah) and The Gospel (New Testament - Covenant);- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); he releases them from their heavy burdens (Matthew 23:1-4) and from the yokes (Matt. 11:28-30) that are upon them. So it is those who believe him, honour him, help him, and follow the Light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper (John 8:3)."
7:158. Say: "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of "I AM", to Whom belongeth the Dominion of the heavens and the Earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in "I AM" and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet (John 7:15-19), who believeth "I AM" and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided (by "The Way" - John 14:6)."

context THE BOOK/Scripture referred to is the entire old testament, not just the Torah.

The Quran always mentions wisdom/hikmah along with the scripture.

Agreed. Because the Quran was sent to CONFIRM the Old Covenant/Testament and the New Covenant/Testament (Sura 9:111; Sura 46:12)

muslims get around the problem as i said, by rejecting the torah. this allows them some type of ignorant upper hand over the christians and jews most of them time, until someone who's studied the Quran (actually in sam shamoun's case, it's my own posts, because im the one who made these arguments first)

You certainly weren’t the first to recognize that the Quran confirms the Bible.

The King of kings’ Bible, which fully cross-references the Holy Koran/Quran to the Old Covenant/Testament and New Covenant/Testament, was published almost a quarter of a century ago.

However 5:43-48 means no muslim is allowed to reject the torah, call it corrupt etc. The corruption the Quran refers to as 'changed the word of Allah' pertains to false translations/interpretations which is ironic because muslims not only corrupted the Quran in the same way, even the very verse referring to said corruption is itself corrupted in meaning.

The word “corruption” refers to something that is in a state of irreversible decay, i.e. rot.

Both the Bible and the Quran warn us that evil people will attempt to alter its wording, through adding and subtracting small things and through mistranslations, either intentionally or out of ignorance (e.g. Enoch 104:8-11; Sura 22:52-55). Fortunately, both the Bible and Quran have tremendous built-in redundancy, and provide us with the means of recognizing when this has happened, and how to correct the errors/mistakes, because all Scripture must agree with itself when properly transcribed, translated and understood (Sura 39:23).

im the only muslim i know, who can accept the Torah as divine, but also see through the flaws within it eg i accept it only insofar as i see God's wisdom in it.

There are no flaws in God’s Law; there are only flaws in those who reject it or read it and fail to understand its INFINITE Wisdom.

Jesus rejecting the law of divorce 'because you were cruel' is one notable example of an actual prophet of God, directly acknowledging the legitimacy of God's law but also implying it is a direct reflection of those people. My entire point.

Already addressed above. It isn’t God’s Law that is cruel, nor did Jesus ever say or imply that. Cruelty, and the blame for all the wickedness that transpires in this world is because of OUR hardened hearts and minds, which prevents us from seeing God’s True Wisdom and Mercy. If anything, Jesus raised the bar with a STRICTER view of what constituted the capital crime of adultery.

Matthew 19:8-9
19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of YOUR hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from The Beginning it was NOT so (Gen. 2:24).
19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication (NOT adultery), and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

 

[A Freeman]

3) zecharia 13, luke 21...

the synagogue of satan is the camp that was turfed out of the holy land. then they mixed with the blood of gomer. they are jews, but they are not the chosen ones/the remnant of zechariah 13.

the palestinians are.

it is a battle between the true remnant and the synagogue of satan.

Please read and study the well-documented and scripturally-backed articles at the links below:

The AshkeNAZI Synagogue of Satan Explained.

No-one will EVER understand world history and what is happening now, unless they learn and understand who the NAZIs really are.

gibraltar-messenger.net

Them Which Say They Are Jews But Are NOT

An honest look at modern Jewry and its global impact, which cuts through the hatred and lies that surround true Israel and their King: The Messiah.

gibraltar-messenger.net

The Truth About Eretz (Greater) Israel

The Bible prophecy about “Eretz” (Greater) Israel possessing the land from the Euphrates to the Nile was already fulfilled 106 years ago.

gibraltar-messenger.net

The Scriptural Marks of True Israel

There are at least 95 Scriptural “birth-marks” describing the TRUE people Israel, by which to identify them during the latter days.

gibraltar-messenger.net

Peace be upon you.

 

[Clout]

Muslims have got absolutely nothing to prove, you know?
Go, seek, and see for yourself, if you know what's good for you.

I think Islam calls itself "the religion of peace", but I certainly don't see any proof of that..

 

[AspiringSoul]

I think Islam calls itself "the religion of peace", but I certainly don't see any proof of that..

the longest period of peace in Jerusalem/the holy land, was the almost 800 yrs of islamic rule after the second conquest of jerusalem by Salahuddin, ending in colonial conquest/zionism.

However, just like it is with JeruSALAM (city of Peace), the word Peace refers to an internal state of submission to God's Will.

that kind of simple, child like perception of the world, where you don't question things too much and accept your lot in life, it's much like what is written in Ecclesiastes. We dont know our future, we should just live a simple life, enjoy what we can and not bother people.
my idea of peace is precisely that.

The problem is, we live in an evil world....someone has to deal with that...and it looks like historically islam is the only religion that has.
see, im not trying to diss christianity...
but all christianity did was dilute into the systme of Rome, which IS the Beast. So christianity has been central to the rise of the end times beast system via colonialism by former roman colonies and then giving the whore of babylon (jewish usury) all the keys to their system.

was islam supposed to be daffodils and faeries when dealing with this shit? that entire satanic system has gone after islam right from the first moment. islam defeated old rome and the 4 beasts of daniel, only to then lose to THE Beast of Revelation. Although that W has been promised, the precise reason muslims just can't give up.
same with israel. the W is promised no matter how bad it gets. are we supposed to make peace with zios now?

 

[AspiringSoul]

@A Freeman
i agree with alot of what you say....
but it boils down to my basic belief that Yahweh is a collective thoughtform and therefore reflects the nature of that nation...

hence Jesus told them 'because you were cruel' in response to the question on why God allowed divorce.

You can present the nice bits about God or try to explain the evil, but end of the day, God told em to mass murder every living thing inc animals too...
and Jesus specifically told the rabbis they worshipped satan, he was a murderer from the beginning etc. Jesus never denied their worship of Yahweh btw. they would debate him on matters of the Law.

it just means those rabbis and the nation at large was a reptilian minded once and hence their experience of God via the manifestation/thoughtform was a satanic reptilian murderous one, hence 70AD happened because they coudnt sacrifice animals. literally Daniel 9 made the connection to the end of OFFERING.

you know what offerings are? no demon, jinn etc needs blood sacrifice. they have no need of our life force. only thoughtforms need the lifeforce.
the image of the BEAST is a global thoughtform that does need the lifeforce and hence the jews today are constantly mass murdering (the bolshevik revolution being the biggest mass murder of them all).


Revelation 6 is where the prophecies in Rev begin. The white horse is conquest eg colonialism which is the rise of the end times beast. All colonial nations were former roman colonies.The consequence of colonialism was world wars, see the Red horse prophecy.
The one after that, represents capitalism and materialism, the US era post ww2 and within that 'do not harm the oil and wine' eg symbol of judaism and hence literally the US protection of israel.

ashkenazis are as i said, a merging of the whore of babylon with the blood of Gomer. All of their evil today stems from their ability to not only establish a global financial system (see Habakkuk 2 and Zechariah 5 for the babylon/chaldean connection) but also practice sorcery, again as the chaldeans did.
they are a copy of the chaldeans and hence 'the whore of babylon'.
in habbakuk 2 look at what it says about making their neighbour drunk so they can look at her wife. they are the people behind pornography.
all of this connects with Rev 17/18.

there are various hadith connections too
eg the hadith prophecy on muslims murdering jews, where jews hide behind 'stones and trees'....connects with the themes in Jeremiah 2 and 3, zechariah 5 and habbakuk 2.in fact even the curse in Zechariah 5, refers to this

Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) cursed the one who accepted usury, the one who paid it, the witness to it, and the one who recorded it. (Book #22, Hadith #3327)

Zechariah 5
3 And he said to me, “This is the curse that is going out over the whole land; for according to what it says on one side, every thief will be banished, and according to what it says on the other, everyone who swears falsely will be banished. 4 The Lord Almighty declares, ‘I will send it out, and it will enter the house of the thief and the house of anyone who swears falsely by my name. It will remain in that house and destroy it completely, both its timbers and its stones.’”

the theif and the one who swears falsely
the money lender and the borrower who cannot repay the loan
eg look at pakistan under mass debt to the world bank, imf etc, now they are slaves to israel indirectly.

timbers and stones
tree and stone

it goes full circle.


right now the jews worship Yahweh dont they? not all, but most do. they literally read the torah before they murder palestinian babies....and all in the name of Yahweh.
so what is that then if it isnt a reptilian yahweh?
you can say 'no they are mistaken and God does not love them' etc, but the idea they have in their hearts and minds, the image...of 'God' is most def THE thoughtform i am referring to.

THE REAL GOD is above all of this. thoughtforms are not the real thing. hence Jesus telling them 'you worship satan'.

 

[A Freeman]

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The "I AM" our God [is] ONE God:

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The First of all the Commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The LORD our God is ONE LORD:

Sura 2:163. And your God is ONE God. There is no god but He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is NOT [the author] of CONFUSION, but of peace, as in all communities of the holy people.

 

[A Freeman]

Job 34:10-12
34:10 Therefore hearken unto me, ye men of understanding: far be it from God, [that He should do] wickedness; and [from] the Almighty, [that He should commit] inequity.
34:11 For the work of a man shall He render unto him, and cause every man to find according to [his] ways.
34:12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert Judgment.

 

[AspiringSoul]

The entire concept of 'refined like silver' refers to the purification of the heart.
when that heart is unclean, the reflection takes a different kind of form, like i said, a reptilian kind

“Hear, you deaf;
look, you blind, and see!
19 Who is blind but my servant,
and deaf like the messenger I send?
Who is blind like the one in covenant with me,
blind like the servant of the Lord?
20 You have seen many things, but you pay no attention;
your ears are open, but you do not listen.”
21 It pleased the Lord
for the sake of his righteousness
to make his law great and glorious.
22 But this is a people plundered and looted,
all of them trapped in pits
or hidden away in prisons.
They have become plunder,
with no one to rescue them;
they have been made loot,
with no one to say, “Send them back.”
23 Which of you will listen to this
or pay close attention in time to come?
24 Who handed Jacob over to become loot,
and Israel to the plunderers?
Was it not the Lord,
against whom we have sinned?
For they would not follow his ways;
they did not obey his law.
25 So he poured out on them his burning anger,
the violence of war.
It enveloped them in flames, yet they did not understand;
it consumed them, but they did not take it to heart.



7 “‘In this place I will ruin[a] the plans of Judah and Jerusalem. I will make them fall by the sword before their enemies, at the hands of those who want to kill them, and I will give their carcasses as food to the birds and the wild animals. 8 I will devastate this city and make it an object of horror and scorn; all who pass by will be appalled and will scoff because of all its wounds. 9 I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and daughters, and they will eat one another’s flesh because their enemies will press the siege so hard against them to destroy them.’

10 “Then break the jar while those who go with you are watching, 11 and say to them, ‘This is what the Lord Almighty says: I will smash this nation and this city just as this potter’s jar is smashed and cannot be repaired. They will bury the dead in Topheth until there is no more room. 12 This is what I will do to this place and to those who live here, declares the Lord. I will make this city like Topheth. 13 The houses in Jerusalem and those of the kings of Judah will be defiled like this place, Topheth—all the houses where they burned incense on the roofs to all the starry hosts and poured out drink offerings to other gods.’”


Jesus summed up the mosaic law, with cruelty, but he blamed the jews.
Jesus's way of winning the long game was to focus on self purification, on being a good person etc. the symbol of the cross was the primary tool christians could use to defeat their own evil nature.
unfortunately it's a dead symbol now so the world is evil again.

 

[A Freeman]

Matthew 5:17-20
5:17 Think NOT that I am come to destroy The Law, or the Prophets: I am NOT come to destroy, but to fulfill [to fully preach The Law (The Torah) and fulfill the prophecies about the first coming of the Messiah].
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no way pass from The Law, till ALL be fulfilled.
5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least COMMANDments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the LEAST* in The Kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in The Kingdom of heaven.
5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall EXCEED [the righteousness] of the lawyers and politicians, ye shall in no case enter into The Kingdom of heaven.

*the lowest of the low in God's Eyes

Mark 12:29-31
12:29 And Jesus answered him, The First of all the Commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength and serve Him ONLY: this [is] the first COMMANDment.
12:31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other COMMANDment greater than these.

Luke 10:25-28
10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit Eternal Life?
10:26 He said unto him, What is written in The Law? how readest thou?
10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt LIVE.

Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of The Law and Prophecy to fail.

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the Will of Him that sent me.

John 7:15-17
7:15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man "Letters", having never been taught?
7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but His that sent me.
7:17 If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself.

Sura 61:5-8
61:5. And remember, Moses said to his people: "O my people! Why do ye vex and insult me, though ye know that I am the Apostle of "I AM" (sent) to you?" Then when they went wrong, "I AM" let their hearts go wrong. For "I AM" guides not those who are rebellious transgressors.
61:6. And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of "I AM" (sent) to you, CONFIRMING The Law (which came) before me (the Torah), and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be the Comforter (John 16:7-15)." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"
61:7. Who doth greater wrong than one who invents falsehood against "I AM", even as he is being invited to do His Will? And "I AM" guides not those who do wrong (Satan does).
61:8. Their intention is to extinguish "I AM"'s Light (by blowing) with their mouths: but "I AM" will complete (the Revelation of) His Light (Malachi 4:2), even though the Unbelievers may detest (it).

 

[AspiringSoul]

stop corrupting Quranic verses with your own made up terms.

The fact remains that Jesus openly negated the law of divorce and said it was only given because 'you were cruel'.

I regard the Torah as a Divine book because I acknowledge a higher hikmah within it. Paul explained a lot of this in Romans.

 

[A Freeman]

stop corrupting Quranic verses with your own made up terms.

The fact remains that Jesus openly negated the law of divorce and said it was only given because 'you were cruel'.

I regard the Torah as a Divine book because I acknowledge a higher hikmah within it. Paul explained a lot of this in Romans.

Who are you trying to convince of this nonsense? Yourself perhaps?

 

[Clout]

..I regard the Torah as a Divine book because I acknowledge a higher hikmah within it. Paul explained a lot of this in Romans.

But if the old Torah (and Old Testament) are all we need, why did God send Jesus to give us the New Testament?

 

[A Freeman]

Paul plainly stated in his letter to the Romans, that he himself was keeping The Law; that The Law is holy, just and good; that he was establishing The Law wherever he went; and that only DOERS of The Law shall be justified.

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind (Being) I myself serve The Law of God; but with the flesh (human) the law of sin.

Romans 7:12-16
7:12 Wherefore The Law [is] holy, and the Commandment holy, and just, and good.
7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the Commandment might become exceeding sinful.
7:14 For we know that The Law is spiritual (for my spirit): but my "Self" is carnal, sold under sin.
7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto The Law that [it (The Law) is] good.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void The Law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish The Law.

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of The Law [are] just before God, but the DOERS of The Law (The Torah) shall be justified.