Shi'ite Beliefs

student

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Mahdi of the Shia: Aside from some similarities with the Sunni Mahdi; there are significant noteworthy characteristics attributed to the Shia Mahdi Muhammadh Ibn Hassan al Mahdi (hebrew gematria 666) within their texts that paint him eerily similar to the profile of Dajjal or Anti-Christ; as recorded in Sunni hadith. The Dajjal will appear first in Isfahan, Iran and likely arise in the 6th year after the Sunni Mahdi arrives and stay for 40 days, the first being like a year, the second a month, the third a week, the fourth to fourtieth the length of normal days. Near the end of his days shall be the descent of the Prophet and Messiah 'Isa alayhis salaam (Jesus peace be upon him) who will pursue and kill the Anti-Christ Dajjal. The descent takes place on the eastern minaret of the white umayyad mosque in Damascus . There is almost certainty that the (vast majority of) Shia under guidance of their clergy will reject and oppose the (Sunni) Mahdi as he will not match the profile of their (Shia) Mahdi whom they will await and accept in due course. Just putting it out there as food for thought for those unaware of the Mahdi narrative from Sunni vs Shia perspective.
 
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Ali.Isa

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Salam, hi to those who ponder and search and research around matters like Newton and think greater.

Firstly i as Shia and majority of Shia have belief that Aisha Peace Upon Her is mothers of believers as per the famous verse of the Holy Quran. This for your 2nd video

Secondly historically the wahabi/isis thought pattern Muawiya Curse Upon Him created this 'rafidah' TERM that was an actual hypocrite [we have even a whole chapter named hypocrite in the Holy Book]. So at the time of Prophet Mohammad Peace Upon Him & His Household there existed hypocrites so wake up and search honestly. So the term has history behind it, they are using it in their favour to justify their act and in Iran they are hated (country most shias lived and in 40 years after revolution they are fighting american capitalism but President Trump calls saudi arabia milking cow, selling their old weapons to them (wahabism) that in turn bombard yemen)

Thirdly the 3rd and 4th clip is iranophobia respectively islamophobia type channel.

Shia believe at the same Holy Quran as Ahl al Sunnah this misconception and lie is spread by wahabi thought pattern created by england in Saudi Arabia, and isis created by america basically soft and hardware creation from zion extremist jews mostly and some so called 'christians'; the rich capitalism, living mostly in France/England and North America. Iran has very good reciters and many memorize the same Holy Quran.

The 1st video; are they Shia Muslims! or western intelligence agency pupets like isis but for Shia audiance and to create hatred between Ahl al Sunnah to see shias bad. Who created isis!!! Were isis sunni or shia? Why you not mention isis, mostly sunnis who exposed to wahabi theories and joined isis. Through the arabic language wahabi thought pattern has pierced the arab islamic nations but in Iran they cant propagate so effective; poison because its language is farsi.

So there is hard and soft extremists working for global arrogant powers. Isis (american version of sunni) takes weapon and so called the rafida (england shia version) takes pen.

So instead of putting old dumb unlogical videos that i could answer by just reading the titles you should propagate true sunnah not wahabi version of Islam.

Basically what is so difficult about ahadith being weak or authentic, your narration on anti christ from Isfahan a very beautiful tourist destination is very false. Why you not mention that its a jew (a iranian jew), very weird you not mention! Isnt it mention in that narration certainly yes but your focus is on to say shias are weak in action and thought and have no love. While they study sophisticated philosophy and new logic and welcome new logic in religious seminaries and make events for Rumi and other spiritual personalities. So the den of Spirituality is there and they are using logic and reason to support what they spiritually experience than just accepting it like that. So they are smart.

So there is alot of learned scholars that are brave like General Martyr Soleimani who got terrored by american drones; freed syria and iraq from isis but western media controlled by (5) five agencies shares gossibs instead of true news.
 

Ali.Isa

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Not really, they tend to curse her...
Not at all, if they do than its an act of haram and they are ignorant and mostly under influence of such so 'called shias'. If they truly know the harm they will not do it but still some have the stupid mindset of those english shias will never be convinced and think they have right to have such unintellectual behaviour and misuse historic events for division. Again its not something common among shia just some naive ones influenced may do it but if i see one certainly i will act against them and do amr be maruf and nahy anil munkar. Thanks for reply and you should know i curse muawiya and yazid and abu sufyan and abu lahab who are dear to wahabism.
 

Haich

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Not at all, if they do than its an act of haram and they are ignorant and mostly under influence of such so 'called shias'. If they truly know the harm they will not do it but still some have the stupid mindset of those english shias will never be convinced and think they have right to have such unintellectual behaviour and misuse historic events for division. Again its not something common among shia just some naive ones influenced may do it but if i see one certainly i will act against them and do amr be maruf and nahy anil munkar. Thanks for reply and you should know i curse muawiya and yazid and abu sufyan and abu lahab who are dear to wahabism.
Thanks for clearing that up, in Britain there is a select group of shias who openly curse aisha and abu bakr...hence by comment.

Out of curiosity, is the 'infallibility' of the 12 imams something that most shias believe in? Do you believe in it too?
 

Tidal

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Who are the good guys, Sunni or Shi'ite?
Why exactly do they hate each other?
Which group are right, and which are wrong?
 
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sixth, you @Ali.Isa have already cursed Muawiah, a companion of The Prophet (PBUH) for sinning while it is not allowed to curse a believer for sinning even if it is Kabeerah sin.
Mauwiah opposed Ali in the Battle of Siffin, even cursed Ali, and set the precedent to (which later included Yazid's murder of Husayn among other things), those were some rough times. Personally I wouldn't touch the Umayyads with a 90 foot pole. Too much transgression on their hands.
As with Mauwiah in general, as the son of the infamous Abu Sufyan I find them to be incredibly curious figures. Abu Sufyan was obviously a politically motivated person and I hardly see any difference with Mauwiah, nothing I've read about them in Sunni literature has ever given me the impression they had any sense of piety, or Akhlaq. It's not that Mauwiah is universally loved by Sunnis historically either, if anything he's been a perplexing figure that Sunnis have had issues with in how they have decided to consider him. The most moral of Sunnis tend to either take an opposition to him and condemn him for his actions, or at the least they tend to grit their teeth uncomfortably about it.
However, I have seen Salafis (not on here) around who utterly and openly hate Ali who have very fantastical ideas about Mauwiah and basically praise him for his opposition to Ali.

I won't say anything in regards to the apparent issue of cursing, but I will say, the Qur'an does support "Enjoining the good and forbidding the evil"
You are the best nation produced [as an example] for mankind. You enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and believe in Allah. If only the People of the Scripture had believed, it would have been better for them. Among them are believers, but most of them are defiantly disobedient. (Surah 3:110)
 
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student

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On ISIS Khawarij


With respect to Shi'ite beliefs there is adequate content on web - even worthwhile for Sunnis to research - and to be frank VC forums isn't the platform nor am I interested in drawn out rebuttals. I'm not posting on this topic for purpose of debate. Once upon a time maybe but now past the stage of engaging in polemics.

I just wanted to highlight the aspect of Dajjal and Shi'ite Mahdi being similar in demi-god status and his name's association with the biblical number of the antichrist 666. This is mainly directed at the general posters and lurkers, not necessarily Muslims, as something to keep in mind whenever such signs appear and to reflect.

In the OP I did say,

Just putting it out there as food for thought for those unaware of the Mahdi narrative from Sunni vs Shia perspective.
Anyhow the way things are developing it seems we'll know very soon with whom is each groups alliance.

The criterion will not be the front put up by the layman rather it will be determined by the scholarly works and doctrine.


 
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manama

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Mauwiah opposed Ali in the Battle of Siffin, even cursed Ali, and set the precedent to (which later included Yazid's murder of Husayn among other things), those were some rough times. Personally I wouldn't touch the Umayyads with a 90 foot pole. Too much transgression on their hands.
As with Mauwiah in general, as the son of the infamous Abu Sufyan I find them to be incredibly curious figures. Abu Sufyan was obviously a politically motivated person and I hardly see any difference with Mauwiah, nothing I've read about them in Sunni literature has ever given me the impression they had any sense of piety, or Akhlaq. It's not that Mauwiah is universally loved by Sunnis historically either, if anything he's been a perplexing figure that Sunnis have had issues with in how they have decided to consider him. The most moral of Sunnis tend to either take an opposition to him and condemn him for his actions, or at the least they tend to grit their teeth uncomfortably about it.
However, I have seen Salafis (not on here) around who utterly and openly hate Ali who have very fantastical ideas about Mauwiah and basically praise him for his opposition to Ali.

I won't say anything in regards to the apparent issue of cursing, but I will say, the Qur'an does support "Enjoining the good and forbidding the evil"
You are the best nation produced [as an example] for mankind. You enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and believe in Allah. If only the People of the Scripture had believed, it would have been better for them. Among them are believers, but most of them are defiantly disobedient. (Surah 3:110)
Muawiah was one of the people who wrote down Quran when prophet recited it. That is why he is still a sahabi.
 

Ali.Isa

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Thanks for clearing that up, in Britain there is a select group of shias who openly curse aisha and abu bakr...hence by comment.

Out of curiosity, is the 'infallibility' of the 12 imams something that most shias believe in? Do you believe in it too?
Hi, yes most shias believe that all Prophets Peace Upon Them are and were 'masum' that said infalliables. Prophet Mohammad Peace Upon Him raised, Imam Ali Peace Upon Him and His own daughter Fatima Zahra Peace Upon Her and later these two married and got two sons Imam Hasan and Imam Hossain Peace Upon Them. Imam Hossain got martyred in Karbala at the time of Yazid Curse Upon Him the son of Muawiya and each year Muslims have mourning ceremonies for Him and millions of Muslims do kilometers of walking from Holy Najaf City to the Holy City of Karbala; this event is called Arbaeen (40th that said 40th day after martyrdom of Imam Hossain Peace Upon Him). This event is also not covered by western media so mostly remain unknown.

From Imam Hossain Peace Upon Him lineage there is 9 other Imams. And any person can reach it maybe not in that quality as the infalliables but in degrees we can be as them if we get knowledgeable and get the truth right and act upon it. This topic is not about it otherwise i would explain more. Anyways what is the point of Prophets that were most intellectual and rightous at their time to propagate if we dont take them as role models.

If i believe or not you can guess because i dont like to talk about myself.

Thanks for your curiosity it was very smart question; imagine if people of the world understood that there could be such personalities or possibility lets say such theory could be true than its worth the try. Imagine the people of France; the movement against capitalism were aware of such a think they would wish for such a leader because they somehow dont have a leader who maybe gets afraid of powers or bought so they are for the moment without it. Imam Khomeini if you noticed they use the word Imam before mentioning him, its because he was not excellent in politics and extracting islamic law only but also very high in Spirituality that followed and implented the way and life style (sunnah) of Ahl al Bait Peace Upon Them. They took it very serious, the same way they went and studied Fiqh, the same way they studied the books of ibn Arabi Peace Upon Him and other philosophers with respect and not slander them. So Iranians had a leader that was brave and had knowledge, we need such ones in west too; why not.

A pretty conclusive good article please study it its on infalliability issue.
Note: https://www.al-islam.org/inquiries-about-shia-islam-sayyid-moustafa-al-qazwini/infallibility
 
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For anyone reading this thread, the views held by the OP and their sources are Salafi and only shared by Salafis.

The above article from the Salafi satire site also lies right through it's teeth. I could give you tons of Hadith where Mauwiyah curses Ali but that would be a trap because it'd cause me to promote the same fitna that the OP wants to cause with their Salafi propagandistic diatribe.
Seriously what a joke:

OP:
"and to be frank VC forums isn't the platform nor am I interested in drawn out rebuttals. I'm not posting on this topic for purpose of debate."
ROTFL!
 
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OP: I just wanted to highlight the aspect of Dajjal and Shi'ite Mahdi being similar in demi-god status and his name's association with the biblical number of the antichrist 666.
And on this, it's quite funny you mention "the biblical number of the antichrist 666" when you are referring to the Apocalypse of St John of Patmos in the Christian New Testament.

Yet your own resources tell you this about books such as that (which already don't have any relevance in Islam):


I don't know why you would even reference that book though, unless you've been reading a lot of Christian things, they tend to be very fanatical about that book despite that it clearly leads them astray from the straight path.
 

Ali.Isa

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First of all, why you @student brought this topic up?
what are you up to?
what is your motive for doing such a thing?
and what is your point?

Secondly, Shia believe there is only One True God and they believe Mohammad is the last messenger of God Almighty.

Third point is: the Shia scholars say cursing Aisha or the caliphs is a sin while the Shia common folk curse them so that means we should take the Shia beliefs from their scholars not the common people.

fourth point is : if they hide what is in their hearts of cursing and hating (taqeeyah, which is forbidden in Sunni view) then God knows what is hidden in the hearts and the Shia are accountable for their deeds.

Fifth point is that, i strongly disagree with their occult views about the thousand+ years living of Mahdi and the 'infallibility' of imams and the "al-Jafr" etc...

sixth, you @Ali.Isa have already cursed Muawiah, a companion of The Prophet (PBUH) for sinning while it is not allowed to curse a believer for sinning even if it is Kabeerah sin.

seventh, i have a question from you mr @Ali.Isa more than 80% of Syria is Sunni, they have the right to chose their leader, then what was Qasim Sulimani doing in there ?
Syria is the land of Syrians not Iranians. if you say there is 75% Shia in Bahrain and they have the right to chose their leader then why 80% Sunnis are being murdered by Shia for practicing their right?
Salam, thanks for asking, if we write properly and honestly discuss for the sake of truth we would certainly be guided. There is alot i do not agree in your post and much misconception there.

You are basically not saying anything to the member 'student' and even reject his great lies and behaviour; a person that more or less had an upbringing to hate shia and act against shia, think whatever he heard as youth is true because he is in that anti-shia environment. So unfair! PS. am not saying bad about his personality and self but his way of behaviour that is secondary in nature.

Both shia and sunni believe in Oneness of Allah - Prophethood and judgement day. The most important is judgement day why not mention it. Moreover from both sides great scholars do not believe that wahabism created by england is an islamic 'sect'.

The common folk do not curse or are unliterate in this subject and are maybe warmed up by fake shia created by england the same way isis was but differently. Imam Khamenei and all Maraje have verdict not to say bad about the Holy figures of any religion let alone Islam; this is part of our belief not some slogan and doing taqiyyah. Do you think the followers of Imam Khomeini both verdict wise and those that love him and are mostly educated would do such a think. Certainly its a duty to act against such an action that makes Muslims divided and are in favour of wahabism and arrogant powers in the world, what has taqiyah to do with this. english.khamenei.ir

Yes we should take religion from scholars of religion why you not say atleast this to 'student' member here. So anybody wears clerical or priest clothes are scholars of religion! Look at those old videos and expired propaganda produced by the enemies of Islam and Satan. Its weird nobody until now has commented very clearly against those videos (have read all the comments before posting)

So your 4th point on taqiyah issue; one can see the proof of both sides and than decide, nothing difficult to be confused. People can go and research. Everyone is accountable for their deeds specially the one that put the first post. Why neglecting resurrection issue. Thinking on judgement makes one awaken and with plan, advance towards Allah. Those that hide their real material motives; things in their heart and have sickness in their heart is mentioned in the Holy Quran and those are the hypocrites. Knowing and recognizing hypocrites is possible but very difficult.

We believe that a person can live long and there is verses in the Holy Quran in favour of infallibility and Prophets living long.

The definition who is considered a companion of Prophet Mohammad Peace Upon Him & His Family should be discussed and viewed. Actually discussion is not needed to figure which definition and explanation is intellectual we need to just present instead of carelessly misjudging around the issue and creating more misconception or the continuation of misconception. You bring forward the sunni definition that is affected by Ummayad dynasty and muawiyah Curse Upon Him lineage and i bring the shia view.

Muawiyah Curse Upon Him is not of companions of Prophet Mohammad Peace Upon Him & His Family, it would be shame and a great and legal excuse not to accrpt Islam as Religion. He was a hypocrite and after the love of world. But you know what they teach in saudi arabia to youths the teachers simply say he asked forgiveness somehow just right before his death so he is of those in paradise. Very lame indeed and you should know we believe both in Prophets ascension-Meraj and saw hell and paradise; so already build his hell by way of living in this world.

So how its okay to use [PBUH] on good people but its not okay to use the opposite for very bad people with no hope of return. I have not done sin specially greater sins. You can study about greater sins here by Ayatollah Dastghaib who got martyred/terrored in moske while leading the prayer by hypocrites that one of them is masih alinejad that the member 'student' quoted and posted about the shrine issue from her. https://www.al-islam.org/greater-sins-volume-1-sayyid-abdul-husayn-dastghaib-shirazi

From you, just read it and see so shallow and so much not knowing and so little research: "seventh, i have a question from you mr @Ali.Isa more than 80% of Syria is Sunni, they have the right to chose their leader, then what was Qasim Sulimani doing in there ?
Syria is the land of Syrians not Iranians. if you say there is 75% Shia in Bahrain and they have the right to chose their leader then why 80% Sunnis are being murdered by Shia for practicing their right?"

There is no need to say mr. before my name call me just Ali Isa. Isa is in arabic the name Jesus Peace Upon Him that lived very simple life and Imam Ali Peace Upon Him was very alike Him. Very syncronized personalities if one reads about their life.

Thanks for question: What has it to do with sunni and shia the small groups like al-qaeda got big and become isis the name of one of egyptian gods that zions favour and love. What is america doing in islamic countries why you not ask that question of yourself and ponder around the issue. Wahabism killed everyone from Muslims to Christians (alot of Christians compared to other beliefs) and other beliefs in those places and destroyed from Holy Shrine to actual tourist destination of example Palmyra and of course selling and making money. Iran and Syria have strategic alliance long term and Syria invited Iran army for advice and training, unlike america and american president that goes and violates iraq and afghanistan without letting the authorities and have bases mostly in germany and around the islamic countries.

No sunni is getting murdered seriously where do you get these facts even fox news do not say such bashful facts.

Bahrain belonged to Iran historically and now when the Islamic Awakening happened they didnt want a dictator someone that listens to america so actually shias are being killed and imprisoned in Bahrain by saudi army and the saudi army killing shia and sunni in Yemen.

Syria has border to lebanon and palestine; they arrogant powers wanted to cut ties but was not successful and now Islamic Republic of Iran is more powerful than ever before and aiming on kicking out america from West and Central Asia.

Video on ISIS; VERH INFORMATED, recommended for all.
 
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Ali.Isa

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99% (99 because i have not seen any sunni scholar say otherwise) of the sunni scholars say Ali was right and Muawiah was wrong all along in the conflict between them.

i too support Ali, but the point is cursing a muslim is not allowed in Islam. i have heard that even cursing an indiviual non-muslim is not allowed, only cursing non-believers collectively is allowed.

Yazeed is another topic (so disgusting i don't even want to discuss about him).

and Salafi's (the saudi/ISIS/madkhaly ones), well... they are strange creatures i would say. they say Tawaf around graves is Shirk but Tawaf around Washington is Tawheed.

"Enjoining the good and forbidding the evil" , i love it.
Salam, why not Explaning of the issue of Yazid Curse Upon Him if we read his historical life certainly he would deserve curse and being damned by Muslims. Allah has Cursed in the Holy Quran and your saying its not allowed seriously please review this link. Why should people curse non muslims! Like i dont curse trump i know there is bigger fish to fry and the zion is just using him. Note: http://www.islamquest.ir/en/archive/fa3203/tmpl/component/printme/1
 

Ali.Isa

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Muawiah was one of the people who wrote down Quran when prophet recited it. That is why he is still a sahabi.
Salam "The Messenger of Allah (S) had a large number of scribes and they are said to be up to 43 persons.5 But all of them were not scribes of revelation; on the contrary some were scribes who wrote the letters of His Eminence.

Shaykh Abdul Hayy writes: Uthman ibn Affan and Ali were the scribes of revelation, when these two persons were not present, Ubayy ibn Kaab and Zaid ibn Thabit were entrusted with the duty. If none of them were present, any other scribe that was present there was given the job. They were as follows: Muawiyah, Jabir ibn Saeed, Aban ibn Saeed, Alaa Hadhrami, Hanzala ibn Rabi."
Reference number 6: Al-Tarateeb al-Idariya, Vol. 1, Pg. 114.
Notes:https://www.al-islam.org/prophethood-and-prophet-islam-ayatullah-ibrahim-amini/revelation-and-preservation-quran

Let us say he did does it make him free passage to paradise. Does those that are wahabi do not memorize Holy Quran and kill for arrogant powers! So writing makes Muawiya Curse Upon Him a sahaba. Notes: https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia/are-munafiqeen-counted-among-sahabah

This is on the issue of taqiyya people can read so as you see i put sources for clarification and do not put hateful videos against another belief or siblings in faith while others instead bringing their proof they slander with wrong sources and create more misconceptions. https://www.al-islam.org/shiite-encyclopedia/al-taqiyya-dissimulation-part-1
 

Ali.Isa

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On ISIS Khawarij


With respect to Shi'ite beliefs there is adequate content on web - even worthwhile for Sunnis to research - and to be frank VC forums isn't the platform nor am I interested in drawn out rebuttals. I'm not posting on this topic for purpose of debate. Once upon a time maybe but now past the stage of engaging in polemics.

I just wanted to highlight the aspect of Dajjal and Shi'ite Mahdi being similar in demi-god status and his name's association with the biblical number of the antichrist 666. This is mainly directed at the general posters and lurkers, not necessarily Muslims, as something to keep in mind whenever such signs appear and to reflect.

In the OP I did say,



Anyhow the way things are developing it seems we'll know very soon with whom is each groups alliance.

The criterion will not be the front put up by the layman rather it will be determined by the scholarly works and doctrine.


Salam, funny your again posting but instead of replaying and doing directly dialog with me, your again trying to introduce shia with wahabi sources. The sunnis are not like that. I do warmly advice, you should practice honesty and with honesty introduce shias with shia sources and not playing around bringing some infamous links like your first post. Your saying your first post has to do with Imam Mahdi Peace Upon Him and anti-Christ Curse Upon Him; while your repeating same pattern of hatred against shia. Very weird behaviour! Mostly your posts here has nothing to do with any kind of mahdi...

Either your knowingly doing it or out of ignorance and you dont know proper sources and properly the shia belief. Hope its the second because i have put some effort and put actual true sources so the second excuse of ignorance is gone. I hope you dont repeat such things. Take care
 
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manama

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I belong to no sect within Islam. I have problems with all of them which includes inconsistencies and fabrications so I stick to being a Muslim and a Muslim is the one who prays for others to be forgiven rather than cursing them.

You and I have no way of confirming what happened over a 1000 years ago, what we have are many conflicting versions of the same story written to fit the beliefs of whoever was writing them. We have no real way to fact check all that. Who goes to paradise and who doesn't? we aren't the ones to know nor are we the ones to claim that someone will not get paradise.

Rather than "Salafis bad" "Shias bad" etc etc lets all focus on bettering ourselves. We deal with enough stuff with the non-Muslims, we don't need that thing going on among Muslims.
 
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