1: Are non-Christians “temples of God”
2: Is it your conclusion that body, soul and born again, recreated spirit will be destroyed as a result of a failure to keep the commandments?
No. Temples of God know that they are members of Christ.Are non-Christians “temples of God”
Yes but its not my conclusion, its God's. Being born again means nothing without doing God's will. The Bible is clear on that. To be saved is to be obedient. A recreated spirit obeys. We will fall and sin in our Christian walk but we ask God for forgiveness and we pray we do not fall into temptation and as we grow in our faith, the less we sin. I like this promise, "My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" (1 John 2:1).Is it your conclusion that body, soul and born again, recreated spirit will be destroyed as a result of a failure to keep the commandments?
I think the scripture above answers this but I'll add two more. Failure to walk in the spirit means we are not doing God's will. We are not His sons.The point I wanted to ask you was whether you believed that this God conscious, born again spirit is then destroyed in the lake of fire due to our failure to walk in the Spirit?
We are all supposed to be obedient to God entirely including following the Sabbath commandment. Being obedient won't save us but it shows whether we have accepted Christ or not. We are grateful for His gift of salvation, for forgiving us and for paying the penalty for our sins. We have faith and trust in Him and submit to Him and all that He asks of us.I have no interest in pursuing a sinful lifestyle any more than I have in cheating on my wife or tormenting my children! Christianity is a relationship based on love, not a religion based on fear. I do good things because I am forgiven, not because I want to be good enough. I stay away from evil because of the cost my Lord paid for my salvation, not out of fear of losing it.
OK - what do you think the message of this clear scripture is?Failure to walk in the spirit means we are not doing God's will. The Bible is clear what will happen to those who do not do God's will. The op put up that clear scripture.
So that one verse is to Hebrews and not us but everything else is for us? How does that make any sense?No, it specifically to the Hebrew to correct them from returning Judaism, mixing the Law with Grace. But is true of all Christians the message it gives about who Christ is.
I'm sorry I had to go off and do something.OK - what do you think the message of this clear scripture is?
1 Corinthians 3:15 (KJV)
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
When you start out with in Lisa’s Bible...that is mocking. How about this is what Lisa believes and this is where I think you’re wrong? Which is really what this is about...you think I’m wrong and I think I’m right because of Hebrews 6:4-6, which is why I keep referencing it.You’re not responding to anything in my posts. I didn’t say that people don’t fall away, or that my Bible says they don’t. I’ve disputed two things: That falling away means you lose your salvation, and that salvation is a progressive thing. These are both claims you continue to make, based on an interpretation of scripture that is contradictory to explicit promises made to believers. If you feel mocked because I’m pointing out that your Bible version says something contradictory to God’s promises, you may want to take it up with your Bible. I’ve shown you already how your Bible is a bad translation, how it confuses and changes God’s words, but you said you preferred it. Now it’s messing you up again, and your response is still not to question your version, but to feel mocked.
It makes perfect sense. We are not Jews and were not subject to Judaism. So we did not have the practice of animal sacrifices to cover our sins...we had faith in Christ. The converted Jew trusted Christ but thought they still had to do animal sacrifices. Understand this Lisa, The born again believer still is capable of sinning (Galatians Chapter 5 and Romans chapter 7 also 1 John tells us that if we say we do not sin, we make God out to be a liar. But Hebrews explains that Christ is an eternal High Priest in the heaven in the order of Melchizedek, and He is our mercy seat before the Father for the forgiveness of the weakness of the flesh. The Jew did not understand that and kept falling away from what they were taught and going back to Judaism. Paul scolds them about having to go over the Gospel with them over again (Heb. 5:11- 6:3)So that one verse is to Hebrews and not us but everything else is for us? How does that make any sense?
Ya I get all that...but if Hebrews is also a book for Christians...isn’t Hebrews 6:4-6 for Christians too? We are also partakers of the Holy Spirit. And we are told in the last days Christians will fall away from the faith...this goes to show what happens when you fall away from the faith..no matter what Christian you are.It makes perfect sense. We are not Jews and were not subject to Judaism. So we did not have the practice of animal sacrifices to cover our sins...we had faith in Christ. The converted Jew trusted Christ but thought they still had to do animal sacrifices. Understand this Lisa, The born again believer still is capable of sinning (Galatians Chapter 5 and Romans chapter 7 also 1 John tells us that if we say we do not sin, we make God out to be a liar. But Hebrews explains that Christ is an eternal High Priest in the heaven in the order of Melchizedek, and He is our mercy seat before the Father for the forgiveness of the weakness of the flesh. The Jew did not understand that and kept falling away from what they were taught and going back to Judaism. Paul scolds them about having to go over the Gospel with them over again (Heb. 5:11; 6:3)
You said you get all that, but then you act as if you don't? It does not say they fall away from the faith, they fell away from the understanding of the place and office of Christ as the eternal high priest. They believed Christ erased their past sins, but they still had to sacrifice on the alter for the things that they were weak in. Much the same as many teach falsely today even to stay saved. Unrepented sin is a loss of fellowship with the Lord....not a loss of salvation.Ya I get all that...but if Hebrews is also a book for Christians...isn’t Hebrews 6:4-6 for Christians too? We are also partakers of the Holy Spirit. And we are told in the last days Christians will fall away from the faith...this goes to show what happens when you fall away from the faith..no matter what Christian you are.
You said you get all that, but then you act as if you don't? It does not say they fall away from the faith, they fell away from the understanding of the place and office of Christ as the eternal high priest. They believed Christ erased their past sins, but they still had to sacrifice on the alter for the things that they were weak in. Much the same as many teach falsely today even to stay saved. Unrepented sin is a loss of fellowship with the Lord....not a loss of salvation.
You’re just making the same argument over and over without responding to what my answers are. I’ve lost interest in repeating myself, sorry.When you start out with in Lisa’s Bible...that is mocking. How about this is what Lisa believes and this is where I think you’re wrong? Which is really what this is about...you think I’m wrong and I think I’m right because of Hebrews 6:4-6, which is why I keep referencing it.
I’ve already showed you your version says the exact same thing as mine...so in this case there is no Lisa’s Bible and the kjv..so you’re should stop trying to pin the difference on a wrong version and take a look at what I’m saying to you. Hebrews 6:4-6does say...in the NASB and the kjv that Christians can lose their salvation.
Hebrews 6:4-6 NASB
For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
To the second objection..isn’t salvation a progressive thing? Don’t you need to be in the faith to be saved? To be saved you need to believe and I would say that you would need to continue to be in the faith to be being saved as well because that’s how salvation starts.
And the verse that you disagree with that I’ve pointed out that we are being saved. If you are saved and aren’t obedient then you are in danger of falling away from the faith at some point..after awhile God will let you have your way since it’s all about free will, God doesn’t make anyone do anything. Do you really think that you or God will want you to be with Him for eternity in that case? Aren’t you then unregenerated? If you don’t respect God here, would you respect Him in heaven. That’s my point in saying salvation is progressive...one must grow in Christ.
Hebrews 5:13-14
For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.
By quoting this verse, you seem to agree that believers are indwelt with the Holy Spirit.1 Corinthians 3:16-23
"Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.
6 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; |
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. |
If they shall fall away to renew then again unto repentance. Every time they sinned, they went back to the sacrifice to renew their Salvation. The reason you can not understand it is you do not believe God can hold you in His firm grip of mercy and grace.and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.That to you means loss of fellowship? Isn’t it more severe than that? You can’t be renewed to repentance again..that is loss of salvation isn’t it?
The reason I don’t believe it is because the Bible doesn’t say He will hold you where you don’t want to be, which is why Christians will, not might, not possibly but will fall away from the faith. if God were to hold you firm you couldn’t possibly fall away in the first place.If they shall fall away to renew then again unto repentance. Every time they sinned, they went back to the sacrifice to renew their Salvation. The reason you can not understand it is you do not believe God can hold you in His firm grip of mercy and grace.
Ya, because that’s the argument..those verses are the whole reason I believe what I believe. I didn’t make this up on the fly. If those verses didn’t say what they say, I wouldn’t think how I think.You’re just making the same argument over and over without responding to what my answers are. I’ve lost interest in repeating myself, sorry.
Jesus promised that when we receive the Spirit of God he is with us FOREVER. That means we cannot lose our salvation. You need to build an argument against that, and repeating an argument that does nothing to address it is a waste of time.
I have responded to your arguments. Please respond to mine.Ya, because that’s the argument..those verses are the whole reason I believe what I believe. I didn’t make this up on the fly. If those verses didn’t say what they say, I wouldn’t think how I think.
My whole argument is Hebrews 6:4-6. If that verse didn’t say you couldn’t be renewed to repentance again, I wouldn’t think you couldn’t but it does. Other verses corroborate the falling away and also not be renewed again like Romans 11:21-22.
God does say quite clearly that people will fall away and that if you do then you can’t be renewed to repentance...it’s quite clear in Hebrews 6:4-6. There are warnings all through scripture..I put it all together but you won’t take a look at my evidence because you think the NASB is so wrong? When I proved to you Hebrews 6:4-6 is the same.
I really don’t understand why you won’t take a look at what I put together, it’s not like I’m trying to pull one over on you. I really do believe that the Bible doesn’t support osas.
I feel like we are somehow missing each other here, I am responding to your arguments with why I believe what I believe.I have responded to your arguments. Please respond to mine.