Is A Snake Appearing From Temple Mount Connected to the Messiah and Third Temple?

Thunderian

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There may be layers to this verse but it might have something to do with the image and/or mark of the beast implanted in humans.
I don't think so. Jesus said:

Matthew 24:15 - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)​

Which is a reference to this verse:

Daniel 9:27 - And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.​

Nothing about marks or beasts, and definitely nothing that has been fulfilled. The only way it can be fulfilled is if there is another temple in Jerusalem.
 

TokiEl

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I don't think so. Jesus said:

Matthew 24:15 - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)​

Which is a reference to this verse:

Daniel 9:27 - And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.​

Nothing about marks or beasts, and definitely nothing that has been fulfilled. The only way it can be fulfilled is if there is another temple in Jerusalem.
We know from Daniel that the abomination of desolation is in the middle of the last week... and we know from Revelation that the mark of the beast will be needed to buy and sell. After Jesus Christ a temple in Jerusalem is not holy to God but humans with the Holy spirit are.

I can't say for sure that the mark of the beast is ment here but i'm sure it's not about any temple in Jerusalem.
 

phipps

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The Papacy is part of the second beast and will function as a religious authority on behalf of the little horn on the first beast. Exactly who the little horn is i don't know as he has not come on the scene but it must be the personification of the revived Roman empire. Some sort of Führer.

This is true and certainly so. I said it and so it is.
The little horn and the first beast have the same attributes and are therefore the same power. On top of the comparisons I gave you I will add that first beast has seven heads and ten horns (Revelation 13:1). That is because in the book of Daniel the little horn uprooted ten horns. "I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots" (Daniel 7:8) Horns and heads in the Bible represent Kingdoms, power and strength, governments, rulers.
The first beast also has the characteristics of a leopard, a bear and a lion (Revelation 13:2), the same beast powers mentioned in Daniel 7.
"And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations" (Revelation 13:5-7). All these Characteristics of the first beast parallel very closely the ones in Daniel 7:20-21, 25 and8:10-12. God wants us to be clear in no uncertain terms who the little horn power and first beast are. They are one and the same power which is the papacy.

Revelation and Daniel are books about end time prophecy and should be read together. Its always best to read the book of Daniel first then Revelation because Revelation gives us more information and detail on the prophecies of Daniel. Its no coincidence therefore that God talks about the same power in both books but with Revelation giving us more detail on the horrible acts of the papacy religiously and politically.


The first and second beast are two different beasts that start out on different paths but eventually work together in the end.

The first beast rises out of the sea and the Bible tells us in Revelation 17:15 that the sea represents peoples, nation, tongues. So it rises out of a highly populated area.

The Second beast rises out of the earth meaning it rises out of an area that is sparsely populated. It has no crowns and is described as having “two horns like a lamb". Whenever the Bible uses the lamb, it means innocent and gentleness. For example, Jesus is the lamb that takes away the sin of the world. So the two horns like a lamb on the second beast represent a nation of youth, innocence and gentleness, which is based on the two great principles of civil and religious liberty (“for where the spirit of the Lord is there is liberty” 2 Corinthians 3:17). Sadly the second beast changes and starts to speak as a dragon and forces the the world to worship the first beast whose wound was healed.

So the first and second beasts are different and start on different paths (the second beast with godly features before it changes) but then later work together to force the world to do what they want it to do. That means they will bring in legislation that goes against the word of God and Christians will have to choose to either obey God or man. This is all from Revelation 13:15 says, "And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."

Do you remember I told you the second beast is the United States? The USA aptly fits the description given to the lamb-like, two-horned beast of Revelation 13:11. It starts off like a lamb and later speaks like a dragon. America was founded on lofty Christian principles of freedom and equality. It represented everything Rome hated. America's two greatest documents, the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, are filled with Protestant declarations that are absolutely intolerable to Rome. America was the bastion of Protestantism, a free world with no monarch that could be controlled by Rome as the many monarchs of Europe had been for centuries. America had a republican form of government. It spelled a massive threat to the rebuilding of Rome's control in the aftermath of the Protestant Reformation. Not surprisingly, we find the Vatican opposed to the founding documents of the United States, as Avro Manhattan, British broadcasting journalist and author of over 20 books on the Vatican tells us:
"The Vatican condemned the Declaration of Independence as wickedness and called the Constitution of the United States a Satanic Document." Avro Manhattan, The Dollar and the Vatican (Ozark Book Publishers, 1988): 26.

The Papacy thoroughly detests liberty of conscience. The United States of America's founding principles were obviously a serious threat to Rome, and not to be tolerated. Many saw Rome making silent subtle advances into America's inner workings through Rome's secret police, the Jesuits. As the years progressed, through the subtlety of these enemies and America's diminished faithfulness to its Protestant roots, the nation was slowly changed and infiltrated. It no longer resembles the lofty ideal it once stood for.

Many in America want the US Constitution amended because it presently forbids the legislation of religious laws. Eventually these people will succeed in swaying popular feeling in order to permit such laws. Papal doctrines will be legislated. Of course it won't be represented like that to the American people. True Christians will know what has happened because they had hindsight of end time prophecy. America is also rapidly becoming a global policeman, getting involved in all parts of the world in the name of freedom and justice. With the fall of the Soviet Union there is no other power that has the resources to fill this role, the United States is the only superpower left on Earth.

Only the USA fits the second beast like a glove. Its the only country that can make the whole world do anything because of how powerful it is and when it joins with the papacy (they already have but its still in the background for now) that will mean impending doom unless we have a deep relationship with God in our lives.
 
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TokiEl

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The little horn and the first beast have the same attributes and are therefore the same power. On top of the comparisons I gave you I will add that first beast has seven heads and ten horns (Revelation 13:1). That is because in the book of Daniel the little horn uprooted ten horns. "I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots" (Daniel 7:8) Horns and heads in the Bible represent Kingdoms, power and strength, governments, rulers.
The first beast also has the characteristics of a leopard, a bear and a lion (Revelation 13:2), the same beast powers mentioned in Daniel 7.
"And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations" (Revelation 13:5-7). All these Characteristics of the first beast parallel very closely the ones in Daniel 7:20-21, 25 and8:10-12. God wants us to be clear in no uncertain terms who the little horn power and first beast are. They are one and the same power which is the papacy.
The first beast is not the Papacy.

As you can see from what you have written above the first beast is much bigger and more complex than the Papacy.

The first beast is a composite of world powers represented by the lion and the bear and the leopard. And if you don't even see who these three beasts represent you are incapable of interpreting this prophecy.



Do you remember I told you the second beast is the United States? The USA aptly fits the description given to the lamb-like, two-horned beast of Revelation 13:11. It starts off like a lamb and later speaks like a dragon. America was founded on lofty Christian principles of freedom and equality.
There you have your Papacy someone who started like a lamb but later only looks like one from the outside.
 

phipps

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The first beast is not the Papacy.

As you can see from what you have written above the first beast is much bigger and more complex than the Papacy.

The first beast is a composite of world powers represented by the lion and the bear and the leopard. And if you don't even see who these three beasts represent you are incapable of interpreting this prophecy.





There you have your Papacy someone who started like a lamb but later only looks like one from the outside.
You really need to read end time prophecy and understand it. Pray to God to give you understanding if end time prophecy according to His word. We are meant to understand everything about end time prophecy in the Bible.

You also haven't proved anything to me from the Bible. Its all about what you think. The papacy is the biggest and most complex beast in Revelation and in all end time prophecy. It is the one behind the second beast's (USA) decision to persecute God's people. That is why the second beast tells the world to worship the first beast whose would had healed. Its not only a religious power its a political one too. Revelation gives us information on these two sides of the papacy. Revelation 13 is its political side and Revelation 17 is its religious side and it is the great whore that sitteth upon many waters with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. Wine in prophecy symbolises doctrine.

Here is how the Bible describes and identifies the first beast in Revelation 13.

A. It would rise from the sea (Revelation 13:1).
The sea (or water) in prophecy refers to people or a populated area (Revelation 17:15). So the beast—antichrist—would arise amid the established nations of the then known world. The papacy arose in Western Europe, so it fits this point.


A Word of Explanation

In harmony with God’s command to honour all people (1 Peter 2:17), we pause here to recognize the papacy for her many good deeds and activities. Her hospitals, orphanages, care for the poor, homes for unwed mothers, and care for the aged are appreciated universally. She can honestly be lauded for many things. But, like all other organizations, she has also made serious errors. God pinpoints some of these errors in Revelation. The Lord, who blesses and comforts, must sometimes chasten and correct. Please ask His Spirit to speak to you as you continue studying this crucial topic.


B. It would be a composite of the four beasts of Daniel chapter 7 (Revelation 13:2).
Study the comparison below to see how it all fits together:


Daniel chapter 7 Revelation chapter 13
Babylon
Lion-like beast (vs. 4)"Mouth of a lion" (vs. 2)
Medo-PersiaBearlike beast (vs. 5)"Feet of a bear" (vs. 2)
GreeceLeopard-like beast (vs. 6)"Like unto a leopard" (vs. 2)
RomeTen-horned beast (vs. 7)"Having ... ten horns" (vs. 1)


The four beasts of Daniel 7 are depicted as part of Antichrist, or the beast, because the papacy incorporated pagan beliefs and practices from all four empires. She clothed them in spiritual garb and spread them to the world as Christian teachings. Here is one of many supporting statements from history: "In a certain respect, she [the papacy] has copied her organization from that of the Roman Empire, has preserved and made fruitful the philosophical intuitions of Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle, borrowed from both Barbarians and the Byzantine Roman Empire, but always remains herself, thoroughly digesting all elements drawn from external sources." This point definitely fits the papacy.

C. The beast must receive its power, seat (capital), and authority from the dragon (Revelation 13:2).
To identify the dragon, we go to Revelation chapter 12, where God's end-time church is pictured as a pure woman. In prophecy, a pure woman represents God's true people or church (Jeremiah 6:2, Isaiah 51:16). The pure woman is portrayed as pregnant and about to deliver. The dragon crouches nearby, hoping to "devour" the baby at birth. However, when the baby is born He evades the dragon, fulfils His mission, and then ascends to heaven. Obviously the baby is Jesus, whom Herod tried to destroy by killing all the babies in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:16). So the dragon represents pagan Rome, of which Herod was a king. The power behind Herod's plot was, of course, the devil (Revelation 12:7-9). Satan acts through various governments to accomplish his ugly work in this case, pagan Rome.

We will quote just two supportive references from history, though there are many: (1) "The Roman Church ... pushed itself into the place of the Roman World-Empire, of which it is the actual continuation. ...The Pope ... is Caesar's successor." (2) "The mighty Catholic Church was little more than the Roman Empire baptised. Rome was transformed as well as converted. The very capital of the old Empire became the capital of the Christian Empire. The office of Pontifex Maximus was continued in that of Pope." So this point also fits the papacy. She received her capital city and power from pagan Rome.

D. It would receive a deadly wound (Revelation 13:3).
The deadly wound was inflicted when Napoleon's general, Alexander Berthier, entered Rome and took Pope Pius VI captive in February of 1798. Napoleon decreed that at the death of the pope, the papacy would be discontinued. The pope died in France in August of 1799. "Half Europe thought ... that without the Pope the Papacy was dead." So this point also fits the papacy.

E. The deadly wound would be healed, and the entire world would give homage to the beast (Revelation 13:3).
Since its healing, the strength of the papacy has grown. Today she is one of the most powerful religious-political organizations and influence centres in the world.


ABOUT THE POPE:

He is the most well-known person in our world. People of the world see him as a strong moral leader. Thousands of Catholics and non-Catholics throng to him when he visits other countries. In 2015, he spoke before a joint session of the U.S. Congress for the first time in history.

ABOUT THE PAPACY:

An American ambassador has said the Vatican is unmatched as a “listening post.” Papal structure is already prepared for worldwide control.

Clearly, the wound is healing and the eyes of the nations are upon the Vatican, fitting the prophecy of the Bible.


F. It would become a strong political power (Revelation 13:3, 7).

G. It would become a very powerful religious organization (Revelation 13:3, 8).

H. It would be guilty of blasphemy (Revelation 13:5, 6).
The papacy is guilty of blasphemy because her priests claim to forgive sins and her popes claim to be Christ on earth.

I. It would war with and persecute the saints (Revelation 13:7).
The papacy did persecute and destroy millions of saints during the Dark Ages.

J. It would reign for 42 months (Revelation 13:5).
The papacy reigned for 42 prophetic months, which equals 1,260 years, from A.D. 538-1798.

K. It would have the mysterious number 666 (Revelation 13:18). "Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666" This verse says, “It is the number of a man,” and Revelation 15:2 refers to “the number of his name.”

We must remember that this attribute is not the most important, but is rather just a small piece of the description Scripture gives of this beast.

Modern interpretations of this prophecy apply the 666 to a computer in Brussels. This implies that 666 represents registration of every citizen of Earth who is to be subjected to the new economic policies of the new world order.

However, this computer did not persecute the saints for 1260 years. It did not say it was God. And, it does not claim to forgive sins. These are all attributes of the Antichrist.

What man do you think of when you think of the papacy? Naturally, we think of the pope. What is his official name? Here is a Catholic quote: “The title of the pope of Rome is Vicarius Filii Dei” (English: “Vicar of the Son of God”). Latin letters have a numerical value. The numeral letters of his name shall make up this number. When you take out the Latin letters, which have a numerical value, and which still are used to represent numbers, and which are: V, I, C, L, and D, these letters form the number given below. In these Latin words there are two V's, which letter denotes 5, six I's denoting 1, one C which denotes 100, one L, which denotes 50, and one D, which denotes 500, thus, V,V=10; I,I,I,I,I,I=6; C=100; L=50; and D=500, the sum 666. Again, the papacy fits the identification point. The first beast with the is the papacy. No other power in history could possibly fit these 11 divine descriptive points. God bless.
 

TokiEl

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B. It would be a composite of the four beasts of Daniel chapter 7 (Revelation 13:2).
Study the comparison below to see how it all fits together:


Daniel chapter 7 Revelation chapter 13
Babylon
Lion-like beast (vs. 4)"Mouth of a lion" (vs. 2)
Medo-PersiaBearlike beast (vs. 5)"Feet of a bear" (vs. 2)
GreeceLeopard-like beast (vs. 6)"Like unto a leopard" (vs. 2)
RomeTen-horned beast (vs. 7)"Having ... ten horns" (vs. 1)
The lion is not Babylon and the bear is not MedoPersia and the leopard is not Greece.

And it's not that hard to figure out who these three beasts represent. Try again.



C. The beast must receive its power, seat (capital), and authority from the dragon (Revelation 13:2).
To identify the dragon, we go to Revelation chapter 12, where God's end-time church is pictured as a pure woman. In prophecy, a pure woman represents God's true people or church (Jeremiah 6:2, Isaiah 51:16). The pure woman is portrayed as pregnant and about to deliver. The dragon crouches nearby, hoping to "devour" the baby at birth. However, when the baby is born He evades the dragon, fulfils His mission, and then ascends to heaven. Obviously the baby is Jesus, whom Herod tried to destroy by killing all the babies in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:16). So the dragon represents pagan Rome, of which Herod was a king. The power behind Herod's plot was, of course, the devil (Revelation 12:7-9). Satan acts through various governments to accomplish his ugly work in this case, pagan Rome.
Obviously the baby is not Jesus.

It is a great sign and an astronomical mark in time informing us that we're at the very end.

The dragon is also not that hard to figure out which world power is ment.



D. It would receive a deadly wound (Revelation 13:3).
The deadly wound was inflicted when Napoleon's general, Alexander Berthier, entered Rome and took Pope Pius VI captive in February of 1798. Napoleon decreed that at the death of the pope, the papacy would be discontinued. The pope died in France in August of 1799. "Half Europe thought ... that without the Pope the Papacy was dead." So this point also fits the papacy.
Who can make war against the beast ?

I hope you understand but i won't hold my breath that this is not talking about the Papacy.

Hint instead do you know any world power who lost in war not so long ago ?



E. The deadly wound would be healed, and the entire world would give homage to the beast (Revelation 13:3).
Since its healing, the strength of the papacy has grown. Today she is one of the most powerful religious-political organizations and influence centres in the world.
As you said Napoleon came and put the Pope in prison.

So the Papacy not wanting to loose wealth and power joined the temporal powers.

As the religious dog of the emerging revived Roman empire.
 

phipps

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Others who identify the Antichrist

Daniel 7 identifies the Papacy as the Antichrist. Throughout history, others have also stated that papal Rome is the Antichrist.

The Apostle Paul said that the "mystery of iniquity" was already working in his day, and would grow to full revelation before the Second Coming of the Lord


The great French reformer, John Calvin, identified the Antichrist:

"Daniel and Paul had predicted that Antichrist would sit in the temple of God...we affirm him to be the Pope…Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak."

"I shall briefly show that (Paul's words in II Thess. 2) are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies them to the Papacy."

Martin Luther also identified the Antichrist from his studies of Paul's epistle to the Thessalonians, and the prophetic books of Daniel and Revelation. In 1520, Luther wrote this:

"I am practically cornered, and can hardly doubt any more, that the Pope is really the Antichrist... because everything so exactly corresponds to the way of his life, actions, words and commandments."

"We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist...personally I declare that I owe the Pope no other obedience than that to Antichrist."

"Already I feel greater liberty in my heart; for at last I know that the pope is antichrist, and that his throne is that of Satan himself."

"We are not the first who interpret the Papacy as the kingdom of Antichrist...He (John Purvey in 1390 AD) rightly and truly pronounces the Pope "Antichrist" as he is...a witness indeed, foreordained by God to confirm our doctrine."

Calvin and Luther were not the only church leaders to identify the Antichrist. A host of reformers identified the Antichrist as the Papacy, such as Thomas Cranmer ("Whereof it followeth Rome to be the seat of antichrist, and the pope to be very antichrist himself. I could prove the same by many other scriptures, old writers, and strong reasons"), John Knox ("Hitherto the pope has been antichrist"), John Wesley ("He is in an emphatical sense, the Man of Sin, as he increases all manner of sin above measure. And he is, too, properly styled the Son of Perdition, as he has caused the death of numberless multitudes, both of his opposers and followers"), John Wycliffe, John Huss, Jerome, and John Melanchthon.
 

TokiEl

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Others who identify the Antichrist

Daniel 7 identifies the Papacy as the Antichrist. Throughout history, others have also stated that papal Rome is the Antichrist.

The Apostle Paul said that the "mystery of iniquity" was already working in his day, and would grow to full revelation before the Second Coming of the Lord
The Antichrist appears Christian.

I agree it is the Papacy and specifically this Pope.


But the Antichrist is not the first beast nor the little horn.

That is the revived Roman empire and specifically the Führer.


Sieg Heil.

Achtung Götterdämmerung.


 
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Thunderian

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You are adding things to Revelation 12, and ignoring clear direction from the Bible on it's interpretation.

To identify the dragon, we go to Revelation chapter 12, where God's end-time church is pictured as a pure woman. In prophecy, a pure woman represents God's true people or church (Jeremiah 6:2, Isaiah 51:16). The pure woman is portrayed as pregnant and about to deliver.
Nowhere in Revelation 12 do we find a woman who is described as pure, so why do you say there is one? The church is portrayed as a chaste, virgin bride (2 Corinthians 11:2), but those words don't appear in Revelation 12 anywhere. You are introducing something to text for no reason.

The dragon crouches nearby, hoping to "devour" the baby at birth. However, when the baby is born He evades the dragon, fulfils His mission, and then ascends to heaven.
What mission is he said to have fulfilled that we learn about in Revelation 12? This looks like another assumption, doesn't it?

Obviously the baby is Jesus, whom Herod tried to destroy by killing all the babies in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:16).
Doesn't that make the church his mother and his bride? There is nowhere in scripture we find this concept, least of all here.

So the dragon represents pagan Rome.
Why though? There is no reason to arrive at that conclusion, based on what we read. Especially since Revelation 12 tells us exactly who the dragon is.

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world

So why would you make the dragon pagan Rome?

The woman of Revelation 12 is Israel, and the authority for this is Joseph's dream in Genesis 37. He dreams that the sun, moon and stars bow down to him, and his father interprets this as meaning he has dreamed that they will bow down to him. His father and brothers do bow down to him, and he and his brothers become the nation of Israel, so the dream is prophetic, and the symbol of sun, moon and stars for the nation of Israel is the only one that can be valid.

Likewise, when the Bible tells is the dragon is Satan, it's foolish to say it's pagan Rome.
 

phipps

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@Thunderian

You are adding things to Revelation 12, and ignoring clear direction from the Bible on it's interpretation.
No I am not. Revelataion 12 has to be read in context with the whole of Revlatiaon and all end time prophecy in the whole Bible. If you look at it separately you will arrive to the conclusions that you have arrived to that don't work hand in hand with the rest of Revelation and end time prophecy in the whole Bible. Look at similar language used in other parts of the Bible and the context in which they written in too.

Nowhere in Revelation 12 do we find a woman who is described as pure, so why do you say there is one? The church is portrayed as a chaste, virgin bride (2 Corinthians 11:2), but those words don't appear in Revelation 12 anywhere. You are introducing something to text for no reason
The Woman in Revelation 12 is said to be “clothed with the sun,” the glory of the gospel of Christ, and have “the moon under her feet,” the reflected glory of Christ as foreshadowed in the Old Testament sanctuary services and rituals. John 8:12; Colossians 2:11-17. The “crown of twelve stars” represents the twelve apostles. The woman who gives birth to Messiah represents the true church through its entire history—from Adam and the Jewish nation to the Christian Church. Don't forget this is end time prophecy. The Woman represents God's people in every age till the end. She is the faithful, obedient woman and is therefore pure. Throughout the Bible a pure “woman” is a symbol of God’s true church while a harlot represents a corrupt church. Hosea 1:2; Ezekiel 16; 2 Corinthians 11:2.

Don't detach what is said in one part of the Bible to other parts of the Bible. The Bible works hand in hand from Genesis to Revelation. Only the Bible does does that effortlessly. Isn't that just amazing?

What mission is he said to have fulfilled that we learn about in Revelation 12? This looks like another assumption, doesn't it?
The dragon represents Satan and Rome in Revelation 12. The baby represents Jesus. So Satan was looking to destroy Jesus but couldn't until Jesus fulfilled His mission here on earth. As you can see its no assumption. Its just you who doesn't understand.

Doesn't that make the church his mother and his bride? There is nowhere in scripture we find this concept, least of all here.
In some places the Church is the woman and in others the Bride. They are one and the same.

Prophetic symbols that represent Jesus' true church.

“I have likened the daughter of Zion to a lovely and delicate woman” (Jeremiah 6:2).

“Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready. And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints” (Revelation 19:7, 8).

"For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ" (2 Corinthians 11:2).

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body" (Ephesians 5:22, 23).

"And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people" (Isaiah 51:16).

Jesus symbolizes His true church as a pure woman and the false, apostate churches as a harlot.

Why though? There is no reason to arrive at that conclusion, based on what we read. Especially since Revelation 12 tells us exactly who the dragon is.

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world
Revelation 12:4 says, "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born." We see an attempt to destroy Jesus at His birth, and can identify Pagan Rome in the person of King Herod as the agency Satan is working through.

So why would you make the dragon pagan Rome?
Satan works through Pagan Rome first to try and destroy Jesus and then through Papal Rome to persecute God's people. That is why Verse 4 uses the same analogy for Satan and Rome too. We know or may be not, that "third part of the stars to heaven…to the earth.” represents the angels who joined Lucifer in his rebellion, and were cast out of Heaven with him. Revelation doesn't distinguish between Satan and its agent Rome who he routinely uses to persecute, deceive and destroy till Jesus returns.

The woman of Revelation 12 is Israel, and the authority for this is Joseph's dream in Genesis 37. He dreams that the sun, moon and stars bow down to him, and his father interprets this as meaning he has dreamed that they will bow down to him. His father and brothers do bow down to him, and he and his brothers become the nation of Israel, so the dream is prophetic, and the symbol of sun, moon and stars for the nation of Israel is the only one that can be valid.
If you mean literal Israel, then it has no important role in end time prophecy because biblically it doesn't exist any more. Literal Israel gave up its right to be God's missionary nation when it rejected Jesus Christ as both Messiah and God. In its place, spiritual Israel arose and is still arising to be God's new covenant people. Spiritual Israel/true Christianity as Jesus and the apostles told us in the New Testament is about those who believe in Jesus Christ as their Saviour and have faith in Him and are the ones who've felt, feel and are going to feel the consequences of choosing God over the powers of the first and second beast of Revelation through who Stan works with. It is through the spiritual Jews that the prophecies of Israel now apply to because they are Israel now and forever if they continue walking in the light of the Lord.

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." Gal 3:16.

"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Gal 3:26-29.

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy." 1 Peter 2:9-10.

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Rom 2:28-29.

"Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." Rev 3:12-13. This is a promise to the movement of God and it is a promise to us all. May we be overcomers through the power of Jesus.

Joseph's dream was about his situation and not about the Church and end time prophecy. His brothers did bow down to him eventually didn't they? So his dream was fulfilled. While Joseph's story ties in with the story of Israel its not about end time prophecy is it? Read it within context.

Likewise, when the Bible tells is the dragon is Satan, it's foolish to say it's pagan Rome.
Nothing I've said is foolish, but its your foolishness showing because you clearly don't understand what you're talking about. I've already explained above that in Revelation 12 the Bible does not distinguish between Satan and its agent Rome. Satan worked through Rome to kill baby Jesus.

You clearly are just talking about Chapter 12 of Revelation separately and not in the context of all of Revelation and end time prophecy through out the Bible. That is not how the Bible is studied. When we read the Bible we have to find out what it says about those subjects in other parts. As you know or should know, the Bible does not have a topic in one part of it. Its why I recommend Christians to use concordances while studying the Bible. It helps with the search on similar topics we are studying to better understand the Word of God. Also the attitude with which we come to the Bible makes a major difference in whether we arrive at truth or not. When we come to the Bible it's very important that we start it with prayer and we say, "Lord, teach me your will. I'm coming here, you may show me something here that is different than what I already believe but I want to know your will that I might do it." When we pray like that, we open our mind. We open our heart to the impression of the Holy Spirit.

As Christians we often accept what others have told us about the Bible and we stop right there. We need to be like the Bereans in the book of Acts. It says in Acts 17: 11 that these were more noble than the people who lived in Thessalonica in that they received the word with all readiness of mind and search the scriptures daily whether those things were so. In other words, they were checking out what the Apostle Paul was preaching to them, weren't they? We ought to be able to trust preachers and teachers and family members and so on and it's OK to take in what they say and listen and with a measure of respect but our final authority has got to be the Holy Bible. That is why I always put up scripture in everything I post so people can search for themselves in the Bible if it true or not.
 
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TokiEl

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The Woman in Revelation 12 is said to be “clothed with the sun,” the glory of the gospel of Christ, and have “the moon under her feet,” the reflected glory of Christ as foreshadowed in the Old Testament sanctuary services and rituals.John 8:12; Colossians 2:11-17. The “crown of twelve stars” represents the twelve apostles. The woman who gives birth to Messiah represents the true church through its entire history—from Adam and the Jewish nation to the Christian Church. The Woman represents God's people in every age till the end. She is the faithful, obedient woman and is therefore pure. Throughout the Bible a pure “woman” is a symbol of God’s true church while a harlot represents a corrupt church. Hosea 1:2; Ezekiel 16; 2 Corinthians 11:2.
The woman in Revelation 12 is an astronomical mark in time. It pegs Rev 12 v1-2 to a specific point in time... namely September 22/23 2017.

Remember this is Revelation of the last days and so is not a picture of Jesus being born and Herod laying in wait as a dragon to slay Him. No not at all. Fail.

Furthermore the woman also represent the daughter of Zion returning to the wilderness of Israel which God has prepared for her. She has been returning for over 100 years and is still returning on the wings of airplanes.

Her child is the chosen of God representing the 144 000 of all the tribes of Israel.

---

The Holy spirit just hit me with this is the sign of the Son of Man appearing in heaven as spoken of by Jesus in Matthew 24:30. And so you know His coming is close...

No the Holy spirit is not slapping me around but He intervenes thank God every so often and always when i need it.

Not that i am worthy but because i love the Lord !
 
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phipps

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The woman in Revelation 12 is an astronomical mark in time. It pegs Rev 12 v1-2 to a specific point in time... namely September 22/23 2017.

Remember this is Revelation of the last days and so is not a picture of Jesus being born and Herod laying in wait as a dragon to slay Him. No not at all. Fail.

Furthermore the woman also represent the daughter of Zion returning to the wilderness of Israel which God has prepared for her. She has been returning for over 100 years and is still returning on the wings of airplanes.

Her child is the chosen of God representing the 144 000 of all the tribes of Israel.

---

The Holy spirit just hit me with this is the sign of the Son of Man appearing in heaven as spoken of by Jesus in Matthew 24:30. And so you know His coming is close...

No the Holy spirit is not slapping me around but He intervenes thank God every so often and always when i need it.

Not that i am worthy but because i love the Lord !
The word Revelation means to reveal or disclose. The book of Revelation is meant to reveal vital issues to the New Testament Church—the end-time Church in particular—about end-time events. God does not want us to be ignorant about the future:


"Surely the Lord GOD does nothing, 
 Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets" (Amos 3:7).

God has always wanted people to be informed, aware, and warned about future difficulties. Throughout the history of Israel, He sent prophets to warn His people about future impending doom. It has always been God’s purpose to steer people away from calamity.

Jonah was sent to Nineveh to warn and rebuke the people that if they did not turn away from their evil doings, their city would be destroyed. The people of Nineveh heeded the warning and their city was spared, along with some 60,000 souls and much cattle (Jonah 3).

When the 10 tribes of Israel were heading down the path of debasement through idol worship and disgusting practices, God sent prophet after prophet to warn them to turn back. God also provided a wonderful preview of Earth’s history through Nebuchadnezzar’s dream and gave Israel hope that they would be returned from captivity to their homeland.

Biblical Prophecy: Warning and Encouragement


God uses prophecy for two purposes: to warn and to encourage. For example, prophecy warns us of the Enemy’s plans and encourages us with hope and the promise of victory. The book of Revelation is full of such warnings and encouragements. It discusses the forces working against Christ and the actions they will take, so that we can recognize them when they happen, and steer clear of any participation with the Antichrist forces.

We also read in the book of Revelation about the promise of final restoration—a new heaven and a new Earth. These come with the final destruction of sin and Satan, the originator of sin. Because Revelation pertains specifically to the end of time, and because we live in the closing time of Earth’s history, this book, in particular, deserves our attention if we want to recognize the signs and know the future.

When we understand what is to take place, our fear of the end times won’t control us. And that’s what God wants. When calamities occur, many are afraid and wonder what is happening. But those that study God’s Word don’t need to be afraid. In His kindness, God gives us the sure word of prophecy for our warning and encouragement.

The Book of Revelation is a Revelation of Christ

Jesus Christ is the central theme of everything we read in Revelation. He is the heart of the book. It is crucial that as we study some of the darker prophecies about the Antichrist and the final controversy, we remember that Christ is the ultimate Victor over all evil.

Revelation is even called, "The Revelation of Jesus Christ"

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John" (Revelation 1:1).

"Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and death" (Revelation 1:17-18).

Revelation 12 is about the Woman and the Dragon. It tells us of how the Dragon through both pagan and papal Rome persecute the Church. The woman who gives birth to Messiah represents the true church through its entire history—from Adam and the Jewish nation to the Christian Church. Satan has been persecuting God's people since the world was created has he not?

Revelation 17 is about another woman but this time she is a harlot. The direct opposite of the woman persecuted by the dragon in chapter 12 "And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration." Revelation 17:1-6.
 
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TokiEl

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The word Revelation means to reveal or disclose. The book of Revelation is meant to reveal vital issues to the New Testament Church—the end-time Church in particular—about end-time events. God does not want us to be ignorant about the future:

Why are you replying with an uncredited copypaste from the SDA church ?

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Many have tried to interpret various Bible prophecies. And God bless them for that but a lot of wolves have been and are misinterpreting prophecies on purpose. And Christians run with them and regurgitate those errors...

And i am authorized to correct that.

I didn't get to be a fighter pilot or a soccer player... but a spokesperson for Jesus Christ.

Do you understand what i'm saying to you ?
 
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phipps

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Why are you replying with an uncredited copypaste from the SDA church ?

---
Many have tried to interpret various Bible prophecies. And God bless them for that but a lot of wolves have been and are misinterpreting prophecies on purpose. And Christians run with them and regurgitate those errors...

And i am authorized to correct that.

I didn't get to be a fighter pilot or a soccer player... but a spokesperson for Jesus Christ.

Do you understand what i'm saying to you ?
This is getting boring and you are playing stupid which I don''t believe you are. I already explained about my copy and pasting and how I know everything I copy paste. I studied it in the Bible for years and know its the truth. Now instead of repeating yourself prove to me what errors I've posted and explain from the Bible what Revelation 12 is about. Otherwise you're wasting my time, do you understand?

You're free to copy and paste too as long you prove your argument with scripture that I can go and read and make sure what you're saying is the truth.

I'll repost my edit on Revelation 12 and 17 about the two different women/Churches in Revelation.

Revelation 12 is about the Woman and the Dragon. It tells us of how the Dragon through both pagan and papal Rome persecute the Church. The woman who gives birth to Messiah represents the true church through its entire history—from Adam and the Jewish nation to the Christian Church. Satan has been persecuting God's people since the world was created has he not?

Revelation 17 is about another woman but this time she is a harlot. The direct opposite of the woman persecuted by the dragon in chapter 12 "And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration." Revelation 17:1-6.

If you say another thing about my copying and pasting that I already explained about previously to you, I will take it as you avoiding telling me about what you believe about the subject we are discussing.
 
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TokiEl

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This is getting boring and you are playing stupid which I don''t believe you are. I already explained about my copy and pasting and how I know everything I copy paste. I studied it in the Bible for years and know its the truth. Now instead of repeating yourself prove to me what errors I've posted and explain from the Bible what Revelation 12 is about. Otherwise you're wasting my time, do you understand?
I explained who the woman in Revelation 12 represent so why do you ask me to prove it ?

You have proven that you can't process that which do not line up with your prejudices.

Don't get me wrong i agree with much of your understanding of prophecies... but not all.

And i am the authority. L0L
 

phipps

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I explained who the woman in Revelation 12 represent so why do you ask me to prove it ?

You have proven that you can't process that which do not line up with your prejudices.

Don't get me wrong i agree with much of your understanding of prophecies... but not all.

And i am the authority. L0L
You call that an explanation? Where is the scripture to prove what you said? Should I just take your word for it?

Everything I told is the truth whether you believe it or not. What you told me is assumption and wrong.

I won't claim to be an authority on end time Prophecy but through years of study it goes hand in hand with the Bible.

Don't waste your time responding to me other than further explanation on Revelation 12 with scripture that proves what you're saying. Insults or trying to put me down never work on me so its useless going down that route.
 

TokiEl

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I'll repost what my edit on Revelation 12 and 17 about the two different women/Churches in Revelation.

Revelation 12 is about the Woman and the Dragon. It tells us of how the Dragon through both pagan and papal Rome persecute the Church. The woman who gives birth to Messiah represents the true church through its entire history—from Adam and the Jewish nation to the Christian Church. Satan has been persecuting God's people since the world was created has he not?

Revelation 17 is about another woman but this time she is a harlot. The direct opposite of the woman persecuted by the dragon in chapter 12 "And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration." Revelation 17:1-6.
Remember this is Revelation of the last days.

And the woman in Rev 12 v1-2 is a great sign in heaven namely the constellation Virgo at a specific point in time when she is clothed with the sun and crowned with 12 stars with the moon at her feet. And pregnant with a planet namely Jupiter also known as the star of Bethlehem who because of retrograde motion spent about 9 months in her womb with delivery on the Feast of Trumpets September 22/23 2017.

She also is a symbol of the daughter of Zion who God will return to His land and protect.
 

TokiEl

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Don't waste your time responding to me other than further explanation on Revelation 12 with scripture that proves what you're saying. Insults or trying to put me down never work on me so its useless going down that route.
I am not trying to put you down woman but when you sprout errors i will say so.
 

phipps

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Remember this is Revelation of the last days.

And the woman in Rev 12 v1-2 is a great sign in heaven namely the constellation Virgo at a specific point in time when she is clothed with the sun and crowned with 12 stars with the moon at her feet. And pregnant with a planet namely Jupiter also known as the star of Bethlehem who because of retrograde motion spent about 9 months in her womb with delivery on the Feast of Trumpets September 22/23 2017.

She also is a symbol of the daughter of Zion who God will return to His land and protect.
What you've written sounds like science fiction more than anything. I still don't see any other scripture to explain what you're saying.

Remember Revelation is end time prophecy and works hand in hand with the rest of end time prophecy. Its not separate from it. The same applies to the Bible.

You are completely wrong and I urge you to read all end time prophecy starting with the book of Daniel then Revelation.


I am not trying to put you down woman but when you sprout errors i will say so.
Lol you say I'm sprouting errors with what you've posted? It not even based on the Bible. Virgo and pregnant with the planet Jupiter? Are you for real?

For the sake of the silent readers here I'm going to post the whole Chapter of Revelation 12.

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The last verse that I've made bold makes it clear what this Chapter is all about.

At the end of time, shortly before Christ returns, the dragon will inspire his agents to make “war” on the “remnant,” those who have remained true and not apostasized. This remnant is said to “keep the commandments of God.” They are not trying to earn their way to heaven, but they keep them because they love their Creator and Saviour. Jesus said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments.” John 14:15. The Holy Spirit living in them brings them into harmony with God’s law and with His character. As Jesus says through His prophet, “’I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.'” Psalm 40:8.
Jesus gives His “testimony” through His prophets. In the end of times the gift of prophecy will still be active in the remnant church. Acts 2:17; Revelation 19:10; 22:9.
 
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