Dr. William Campbell destroyed by Dr. Zakir Naik on scientific errors in the Bible MUST WATCH!!

[Red Sky at Morning]

Great clip. No wonder God knows our innermost selves as the more or less silent spiritman deep within is part of God.

He did another couple that really put things in a clear perspective:-

And

This is why the words of this song are so important -

 

[TokiEl]

He did another couple that really put things in a clear perspective:-

I used to wonder how God knew my unspoken thoughts... but it was through that silent spiritman within. After i came to Christ that spiritman is not so silent anymore. He likes to type a lot lol.

There are not two identical individuals in God's creation. Although sometimes i think some have a problem with that. Some would like all to be much more like them. They might even think that they are closer to Christ or at least more or less infallible when dividing the word of truth.

When one does not agree about something... one is just about accused of not having the Holy spirit. Imagine that. Just for disagreeing with them. Have they become holy cows ?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I used to wonder how God knew my unspoken thoughts... but it was through that silent spiritman within. After i came to Christ that spiritman is not so silent anymore. He likes to type a lot lol.

There are not two identical individuals in God's creation. Although sometimes i think some have a problem with that. Some would like all to be much more like them. They might even think that they are closer to Christ or at least more or less infallible when dividing the word of truth.

When one does not agree about something... one is just about accused of not having the Holy spirit. Imagine that. Just for disagreeing with them. Have they become holy cows ?

One Body, many parts and we all need each other. I watched this one on a plane a month ago and it illustrated the point better than most sermons.

 

[TokiEl]

One Body, many parts and we all need each other. I watched this one on a plane a month ago and it illustrated the point better than most sermons.

There is very little participation in Bible prophecies.

Most go into mental meltdown when disagreeing about stuff which can't even be proven. Providing tangible evidence on the other hand is met with blind eye. Perhaps they don't know the power of evidence... if so i hope they never make it to jury duty.

 

[Etagloc]

Aha so Sharia come from the mouth of Muhammad. A man like me. As in not God but man.

Firstly- are you admitting the Quran doesn't come from man? I don't know why you would take a "Quranist" stance when I assume the Quran and hadith are both from man (and from the same man at that) according to your view.

Secondly, Sharia comes from the Quran and the Sunnah.

Thirdly, most of Christianity comes from the words of Paul. A man like me. As in not God but man.

 

[Etagloc]

Great clip. No wonder God knows our innermost selves as the more or less silent spiritman deep within is part of God.

And who is this spiritman?

I don't suppose he fights supervillains. Or does he?

 

[elsbet]

Is human nature inherently wrong? Is nature wrong?

Human nature?
Technically, since the fall... yes.

 

[elsbet]

You are trying to convince others that your interpretations of the Scriptures are infallible.

Are you serious ? Are you a woman ?

Sounds like she is saying the Holy Spirit is the one who is infallible-- I agree.

Are you a woman ?

What's that supposed to mean?

 

[phipps]

Sounds like she is saying the Holy Spirit is the one who is infallible-- I agree.

Are you a woman ?

What's that supposed to mean?

That's exactly what I meant. Thanks.

 

[Etagloc]

Are you a woman ?

What's that supposed to mean?

Thanks for making that important point.

It's important that we have respect for women.

 

[TokiEl]

Firstly- are you admitting the Quran doesn't come from man?

The Quran might very well come from the mouth of a god and not a man.

Secondly, Sharia comes from the Quran and the Sunnah.

Are you sure it's not mostly from the mouth of Muhammad or the Hadith ?

Thirdly, most of Christianity comes from the words of Paul. A man like me. As in not God but man.

In the Gospels there are a lot of words from the mouth of Jesus Christ.

 

[TokiEl]

And who is this spiritman?

I don't suppose he fights supervillains. Or does he?

Body soul and spirit.

Who is this spirit within ? Godstuff.

 

[TokiEl]

Sounds like she is saying the Holy Spirit is the one who is infallible-- I agree.

Are you a woman ?

What's that supposed to mean?

Actually it sounds like she uses the Holy spirit as an excuse for stubbornly being right all the time... much like women.

No disrespect to women but this is a known trait that they have. I'm just being real.

 

[TokiEl]

That's exactly what I meant. Thanks.

L0L.

 

[Etagloc]

Are you sure it's not mostly from the mouth of Muhammad or the Hadith ?

I said Sharia comes from the Quran and the Sunnah. You do this weird rhetorical thing of "are you sure?"... does it come more from Quran or Sunnah? I have no idea. Does more of Islamic ruling come from the Quran or the Sunnah? 60 percent from one? 40 percent from the other?

I seriously doubt we could quantify. I seriously doubt you can quantify what the Quran and the Sunnah say to do and say "60 percent" of Sharia comes from this, "40 percent" comes from that.

That would be like trying to say a given percentage of Christianity comes from Paul, a given percentage from Moses (PBUH), etc.

Now does over 50 percent come from which source? I have no idea and I seriously doubt any people can come up with some sort of mathematical formula showing the percentage of how much Islam comes from the Quran or the Sunnah. The concept is ridiculous. That's like someone trying to make a chart showing which percentage of Islam comes from which Surah. That's like if someone said "Christianity comes from 23% from this book, 14% from Galatians, etc.". It makes no difference to me. The Quran leads to the Sunnah. The Quran specifically says to obey Allah and His Messenger so Islam is based on the Quran and the hadith. Obeying the Quran entails obeying the hadith. I'm not interested in arguing against "Quranism". I already addressed it in the hadith thread I made. If you want more info on it, you can go to the op of my hadith thread and dig through the material there.

 

[elsbet]

Actually it sounds like she uses the Holy spirit as an excuse for stubbornly being right all the time... much like women.

No disrespect to women but this is a known trait that they have. I'm just being real.

This, from the species that puts their socks right next to the laundry hamper... but not inside of it.

 

[TokiEl]

I said Sharia comes from the Quran and the Sunnah. You do this weird rhetorical thing of "are you sure?"... does it come more from Quran or Sunnah? I have no idea. Does more of Islamic ruling come from the Quran or the Sunnah? 60 percent from one? 40 percent from the other?

Weird or not i read in Wiki that Sharia mostly come from the mouth of Muhammad or Hadith. I don't know man i didn't look into it. But if true it be a bummer... from the mouth of one man come the laws of god ?

Do you see the dictator danger in that ?

 

[TokiEl]

This, from the species that puts their socks right next to the laundry hamper... but not inside of it.

Well the most important thing for most women is to be right. That is a trait.

For men it is more ego and misplaced socks lol.

 

[Etagloc]

This, from the species that puts their socks right next to the laundry hamper... but not inside of it.

lol!

Weird or not i read in Wiki that Sharia mostly come from the mouth of Muhammad or Hadith. I don't know man i didn't look into it. But if true it be a bummer... from the mouth of one man come the laws of god ?

Do you see the dictator danger in that ?

I mean the question is like asking.... does Christianity come this much this book, this much from book?

I mean if I named a book of the Bible and asked you what percentage of Christianity comes from, say, 1 Corinthians.... it wouldn't really make sense as a question. I mean you might as well ask me what percentage of Islam comes from, say, Surah Al Kahf. It's a weird question.

You have a movement that tries to attack the hadith and so the people who are anti-Islam attack the hadith to attack Islam.

I mean the Quran says to obey Muhammad (PBUH). So if we take the Quran as our starting point then we accept that we have to obey Muhammad (PBUH).

So it comes down to whether we believe in the Quran. Part of following the Quran is following Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

Now of course you already have your conclusion that Islam is false and you are working backwards from your conclusion.

The Bible had a bunch of different authors and is really more a collection of books than a single book. With Islam, you have to follow Muhammad (PBUH). In Christianity, you have to follow Paul. I don't think it's all that different.

I think it is clear though that most of Christianity comes from Paul. Most of the NT is from Paul and also his writing is supposed to cancel out the OT laws.

If you want to know about Islam, you should read an English translation of the Quran. I recommend the Yusuf Ali translation with commentary.

I don't think you should go with wikiIslam if that's the wiki you were referring to. Even if you're intending to attack Islam- I think you should start with objective sources, get a good grasp, first and then start with that... wherever that leads.

I suggest that because if you understand the religion, I think you'll have respect for it. There's a massive campaign being waged against Islam but the reality is a lot different than what's in the media.

I understand your religion but I don't think you understand mine. There are Muslims who were born in Muslim families and who haven't read the Bible. I assume you're probably from a Christian background.

I've read the Quran and the Bible, I know both religions.... and having studied both... Islam is the one that I follow. I am not perfect but I don't believe I'm an idiot and I don't think people who know would say I'm an idiot.

You can try to give arguments against Islam.

I've heard and studied the arguments for Islam. I've heard and studied the arguments against Islam.

I've heard and studied the arguments for Christianity. I've heard and studied the arguments against Christianity.

I think if a person who wants to know which is true.... I believe if they put cultural and family background to the side..... any bias or preconceptions to the side..... they simply and plainly study the Bible..... they simply and plainly study the Quran.... they examine both objectively.... they weigh objectively the arguments for and against on both sides... I believe if they engage in this process.... and I emphasize the word "process"..... this isn't something overnight.... if you are dedicated and you follow the process I have suggested.... I believe if you are objective and thorough then insha'Allah you will believe in the Quran..... and following Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is part of following the Quran, so there's no contradiction there......

I can't write a gigantic book here and show you every single thing..... besides, I would have to provide links, videos, etc. I did that in the OP.....

did you examine the material in the OP?

If other people do their homework or not is not up to me..... so all I can do is encourage others to do their homework and then it's up to them.... I challenge you to go through the material in the OP..... and also to read the book Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman which confirms what the Quran already said.....

It comes down to..... are you after seeking truth.... or just want to be seen as "winning" arguments? it's up to you but I've provided quite a bit of material which should show an honest truth seeker in the right direction

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@Etagloc

"If other people do their homework or not is not up to me..... so all I can do is encourage others to do their homework and then it's up to them.... I challenge you to go through the material in the OP..... and also to read the book Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman which confirms what the Quran already said....."

I concede that if you put together a series of assumptions you can conclude that Islam is the logical choice. It is possible to find authors and speakers who will back you up in those assumptions.

As such spiritual conclusions rest on the veracity of those assumptions it is there that the truth will be found and the debate will be the most fierce.

Hence the deity of Christ, the reliability of the Bible's text, the true nature of Man etc all become battlegrounds. In the Bible, the Bereans were commended for their diligence in searching the scriptures for truth.

There is no harm in studying and being aware of an opposing view, what ideas such a world view is based and what conclusions are drawn.

On Bart Ehrman, student of Bruce Metzger, his conclusions are based on a view that elevates the Alexandrian critical texts and denigrates the Majority and Antiochan texts of the Bible. This assumption leads him to the conclusions he draws but his conclusion may be entirely false if the spiritual climate in Alexandria at the time those texts were produced was to add to and redact from scripture to align it more with the beliefs of Origen (amongst others) and of gnosticism.

This topic goes into greater depth in the following thread if the question is of any interest to anyone. In addition @Steven Avery has substantially more knowledge than me on the subject which can be investigated at Sinaiticus.net.

https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-critical-text-criticized.3461/