Do all religions lead us to God?

[JoChris]

Non-Muslims, please read this and if interested save for future reference:

A core doctrine of modern Islam is that the Quran is perfectly preserved, right down to the very last letter. Today is the first year anniversary of the infamous Muhammad Hijab with Dr Yassir Qahdi video "holes in the narrative", admitting there were VERSIONS, not translations of the Quran. There are 37+++ versions at least. Muslims won't ever tell you that of course.
David Wood has nothing to do with islam Critiqued, DCCI ministries or Pfanderfilms either.

 

[Daze]

Richard Dawkins is a self-important, arrogant, condescending man with an vacuum where a meaningful philosophy of life might live.

Despite his many faults, it is for none of them that I reject the atheism he promotes, but for the fact I disagree with his reasoning.

I could refuse to engage with the ideas of an atheist who cited Dawkins as a source, but in doing so I would be committing the genetic fallacy.

2+2 remains 4, whoever is saying it.

Why are you comparing an atheist to a 'reborn Christian'? I guess they are similar to you.

As i mentioned in another thread i broke my foot Monday at work so accessing a pc to refute Graces utter joke of a source isn't easy for me atm.

I see you linked the video where David describes looking at his father and wanting to hit him with a hammer ( least the thumb nail looks like that's it).

Look at this guy from a none biased angle. Listen to what he says. Listen to how there is no compassion in his voice or his words when he describes the situation with his father and his dog.

You would not leave this man alone with your own loved ones red because he's not all there.

 

[Daze]

Non-Muslims, please read this and if interested save for future reference:

A core doctrine of modern Islam is that the Quran is perfectly preserved, right down to the very last letter. Today is the first year anniversary of the infamous Muhammad Hijab with Dr Yassir Qahdi video "holes in the narrative", admitting there were VERSIONS, not translations of the Quran. There are 37+++ versions at least. Muslims won't ever tell you that of course.
David Wood has nothing to do with islam Critiqued, DCCI ministries or Pfanderfilms either.

Yasir Qhadi was educated in the West. Like it or not this makes a pretty big difference.

While Islam was perfected with the prophets (saw) last sermon Mr Qhadi wants to make changes to Islam. Wants to reform it. Actually supports 'Muslim' voices who call for queer equality and trans choice.

In short the guy is a deviant and God knows best.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Why are you comparing an atheist to a 'reborn Christian'? I guess they are similar to you.

As i mentioned in another thread i broke my foot Monday at work so accessing a pc to refute Graces utter joke of a source isn't easy for me atm.

I see you linked the video where David describes looking at his father and wanting to hit him with a hammer ( least the thumb nail looks like that's it).

Look at this guy from a none biased angle. Listen to what he says. Listen to how there is no compassion in his voice or his words when he describes the situation with his father and his dog.

You would not leave this man alone with your own loved ones red because he's not all there.

Granted, Psycopathy is a bad thing!

It might lead David to all kinds of wrong actions which others would avoid. It’s basically like taking the restrictions off. Not all psychopaths are in jail however, some are good people who do well at business because they think outside conventions and go with their gut.

Learning to separate out character from content is a delicate art.

 

[recure]

Such a biased lie or are phobes not aware we have scholars and comparative thinkers and entire institutes of learning that discuss these aspects?

The earliest sources about Islam outside of the Qur'an (for almost two centuries) are all non-Muslim sources and oftentimes contradict the traditional Islamic narrative. Who are these "scholars" you mention that discuss the historical context of the Qur'an? As far as I'm aware, discussing theories based on the earliest evidence is considered "revisionist" if it doesn't corroborate the Islamic narrative. After all, Muslims have as yet to produce a critical text of the Qur'an but still opt to perpetuate the myth of the perfect preservation of the manuscript text.

Judaic and proto Zionist? Judaic? We believe Jesus is a prophet last I checked they do not. Proto Zionist? Are you saying we believe in a homeland for the secular nationalists who happen to be born Jewish? With such thinking one would think you are asleep.
Talmudic what do we have to do with the Talmud.......nothing!! Incredible, you are just a phobe trying to throw mud while lying through your teeth.
Pagan?
Why not tell the truth about how the teachings of Jesus peace be upon him changed and incorporated pagan ideology to the point that an entire sect of Protestantism came about to reform it and still they could not make the faith for the Creator alone, or the worship for the Creator alone.

You don't have to be a Talmudic Jew to be a Judaizer, such were the Judeo-Christians (aka Messianic Jews), or as it pertains to the Qur'an, the Nazarenes (as it never says Christians). Moreover, all the verses in the New Testament against "the circumcision" can, out of necessity, be applied to Muslims. The Qur'an itself incorporates Talmudic teachings such as the verse about "killing one man is like killing all of mankind" which Muslims love to quote (though never in its entirety) or the doctrine of the Shekinah (Arabic sakeenah).

Islam is proto-Zionist because, as the historiography demonstrates, the capture of Jerusalem and the building of the Dome of the Rock was based on a Judaic, apocalyptic expectation of the coming of Moshiach. Even the ancient Jewish sources corroborate this view of Islam as I showed here. Or do you suppose that the Muslims just built a Temple in Jerusalem without knowing its eschatological significance? The Hadith even states that the Messiah will come back to earth to break the Cross and establish a kingdom (Caliphate), quite like the Zionist (Jewish and Christian varieties) expectation.

No amount of mental or verbal gymnastics will redeem the trinity and I gladly say that if you want to continue on that path you do so at your own peril because the Creator will not forgive the sin of association in belief and worship. You can not go through Jesus to God you are supposed to go directly to God, and thus we convey in simple terms the religion of truth that all may understand and comprehend whether they are learned or not.All your worship, all your supplications for help and forgiveness are easily attained by asking the Creator directly.

It's impossible that you have a correct conception of the Trinity, and as I have seen demonstrated here, my assessment that Muslims think it's a kind of Tritheism or Modalist doctrine is justified. But whatever you think the Trinity is, there is no denying that the Scripture teaches that Jesus Christ is the mediator between God and man. Which is ironic considering that Muslims will act like a doctrine is correct based on whether it's explicitly mentioned in the Bible, as is often the case when their favorite Christian doctrine the Trinity is discussed, yet the so-called "central tenet of Islam" is nowhere mentioned in the Qur'an by name.

Edit: typo.

 

[Daze]

Granted, Psycopathy is a bad thing!

It might lead David to all kinds of wrong actions which others would avoid. It’s basically like taking the restrictions off. Not all psychopaths are in jail however, some are good people who do well at business because they think outside conventions and go with their gut.

Learning to separate out character from content is a delicate art.

Is David a good person? How do you know? How often does he preach the gospel, cause i never see anything but attacks at Islam from him.

How many videos does David have that are say 30-60 minutes where he does nothing but call to Christianity?

Because from where i sit, if one wants to make a fortune, they need to do nothing more then attack Islam.

Looking at David's patreon alone he makes $84,000 annually. This is nearly 3x what i make in the electrical field.

David makes a doctor's salary in his current 'job'. Going by his patreon only. I'm sure there is more with public talks and what not.

What's your proof David is a good person putting his dog and dad aside?

 

[Daze]

No, they do not.

Seeing that everything belongs to God and all will return to God one can conclude all roads lead to God. There is no final destination other then to the Almighty himself.

While i think most seek his pleasure many paths just lead to his anger. While Christianity and Islam both agree, no deed is more egregious then worshipping something other then God.

 

[Cintra]

In our present stage, the object that you see is never the same as the one that I see; we infer that it is the same because your experience tallies with mine on so many points that the actual differences of our observation are negligible. For instance, if a friend is walking between us, you see only his left side, I his right; but we agree that it is the same man, although we may differ not only as to what we may see of his body but as to what we know of his qualities. This conviction of identity grows stronger as we see him more often and get to know him better. Yet all the time neither of us can know anything of him at all beyond the total impression made on our respective minds.

 

[recure]

Why not tell the truth about how the teachings of Jesus peace be upon him changed and incorporated pagan ideology to the point that an entire sect of Protestantism came about to reform it and still they could not make the faith for the Creator alone, or the worship for the Creator alone.

I forgot to make the point in my reply that Protestantism is also a Judaizing movement and started not long after humanist thinkers began to reverence the Hebrew Bible and other Jewish texts. One of the main reformers, Philip Melanchthon was a cabalist, the nephew of Johann Reuchlin, a philosemite and creator of "Christian Kabbalah". Reuchlin also evidently influenced Luther, as he states in his commentary on Galatians that justification by faith is "the true cabala". Calvinism is markedly Gnostic, and certain Baptists have even claimed to be the successors of the Montanist heretics. It's not surprising then to see Judaic beliefs like Zionism and the Sabbath being promoted in Protestant circles. For further reference, see "Influence of Judaism on the Protestant Reformation" by Hienrich Graetz (1867) or Louis Israel Newman's tome "Jewish Influence on Christian Reform Movements" (1966). So no, I do not grant that the Reformers were responding to alleged "pagan ideology" in Christianity but were instead "those who walk after the flesh in unclean desires, and who despise proper authority. Boldly pleasing themselves, they do not dread to introduce divisions by blaspheming" (2 Peter 2:10).

 

[DesertRose]

Who are these "scholars" you mention that that discuss the historical context of the Qur'an?

This is one cursory search. Like I said previously you are stereotyping an entire civilization with scholars, thinkers and institutes.
The Qur’an in Its Historical Context

Site Suspended - This site has stepped out for a bit

The Qur'an itself incorporates Talmudic teachings such as the verse about "killing one man is like killing all of mankind" which Muslims love to quote (though never in its entirety) or the doctrine of the Shekinah (Arabic sakeenah).

The Quran is nothing like the Talmud and just because there are some similarities with so called 'Judaic' teachings does not score an argument. The Quran is in agreement with any stories, morals etc in the Torah and the Bible that were left unchanged by the Rabbis and priests. That is because the source is the Creator so you will find partial agreements and clarifications and outright negations of some of the teachings of the rabbis and pastor/priests.
There is a common heritage because the truth is One and should not be one that keeps changing and twisting and turning based on the whims and fancies of rabbis and priests/pastors and even some imams.

They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah , and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him. 9:31

For those interested in seeing the Islamic stance on the trinity doctrine:

https://www.islamforchristians.com/?s=trinity

Islam Declared by Rabbi as Mankind's Original Faith

IMuslims are only here to convey our message in this marketplace of ideas.

If they turn away, then your duty is only to clearly convey the message.
Surat al-Nahl 16:82

 

[recure]

This is one cursory search. Like I said previously you are stereotyping an entire civilization with scholars, thinkers and institutes.
The Qur’an in Its Historical Context

Site Suspended - This site has stepped out for a bit

Since you said it is a cursory search, I take it you've never read Reynold's book yourself? I have the book and Reynolds is a Christian scholar who also disagrees with much of the Islamic narrative. The second part of your reply was not scientific but more of the Islamic rationalizing and dismissing the evidence as I've mentioned.

 

[Daze]

John 14:6-31

6Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

7If you really know me, you will know b my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

8Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit

15“If you love me, keep my commands.16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be c in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.21Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”
22Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

23Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25“All this I have spoken while still with you. 26But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

28“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. 30I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me,31but he comes so that the world may learn that I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me.

“Come now; let us leave.

In Jesus Precious & Holy Name, Amen!

Say you're a total atheist with no belief in God what so ever.

Where do you go when you die? Is the atheist reborn or what?

 

[Zombiekirk]

Hello everybody! I have enjoyed reading your discussion and it is great to see so many religious backgrounds coming together for a conversation.

I am an atheist, however I am deeply spiritual. I don’t like to say agnostic because there is no way I will ever subscribe to a religion.

I feel ‘God’ in different ways. I don’t see God as a single being with motivations and drives to control how we live our lives. I see it more as a living fabric that makes up all of us and everything in the universe. We are all connected to it and I believe we have lost sight of this connectedness. The power of the consciousness has been stifled with media, electronics, luxuries, drama, laziness, gluttony, etc.

while I don’t believe in hell or Satan, I believe the concept of it is extremely powerful in itself. I believe words and intentions have power in themselves, and to openly promote/support dark, evil things as cool and hip is truly disgusting.

I love this world, I love nature, and I love people. It breaks my heart of how far we have fallen.

I hate being told that if we don’t think modern medicine can help and would like to explore more natural, spiritual methods, we are idiots.

I have a bachelor in science and of course I understand the very important, helpful tool that modern science can be, but I am also painfully aware that the science that I love, tends to mock and condescend ancient, natural techniques.

my point is, my spirituality and natural methods have helped my mental and physical health than anything modern medicine could do for me. What I’m saying is that we need to get back to our roots to find God. Because God is inside all of us, every plant, every animal, every star.

 

[DesertRose]

Since you said it is a cursory search, I take it you've never read Reynold's book yourself? I have the book and Reynolds is a Christian scholar who also disagrees with much of the Islamic narrative. The second part of your reply was not scientific but more of the Islamic rationalizing and dismissing the evidence as I've mentioned.

I highlighted that it is obtuse of you to assume that there are Muslims who have not studied that subject perhaps the texts have not been translated from the Muslim world into English. That was about crux of my comment.
Never said I read it or was even interested in pre-Islamic history.
As a believer I think attaining closeness to the Creator is our goal and I am grateful that I have the Quran as guidance. Alhamdullilah.
As Muslims like to say to you your faith whatever it is .....(seeing that your threw the protestants under the bus as well.)
Look forward to seeing this settled by the Creator on the Day of judgement.

"The same religion He has established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah - the which We have sent by inspiration to thee - and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that you should remain steadfast in religion, and make no divisions therein: to those who worship other things than Allah, hard is the (way) to which you call them. Allah chooses to Himself those whom He pleases, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him). (Quran 42:13)

"Mankind was one single nation, and Allah sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the People of the Book, after the clear Signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy. Allah by His Grace guided the believers to the Truth, concerning that wherein they differed. For Allah guided whom He wills to a path that is straight." (Quran 2:213)

"To you We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that has come to you. To each among you we have prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He has given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah. it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which you dispute; (Quran 5:48)

"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). (Quran 49:13)

 

[Tidal]

John 14:6-31
6Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me..

Yes, and people quickly cottoned on..-
"There is one mediator between God and men,- the man Jesus Christ" (1 Tim 2:5)
"There is no other name under heaven that can save us" (Acts 4:12)

And Jesus himself made it quite clear-
"Enter through the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it, but small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."(Matt 7:13)

Therefore anybody who believes the satanic notion that all other paths lead to God is not only calling Jesus a liar, but has chosen to walk down this road to nowhere..

 

[Tidal]

Say you're a total atheist with no belief in God what so ever.
Where do you go when you die? Is the atheist reborn or what?

Atheists and nonchristians are all Jesus-rejecters so they'll all be going up the spout, it's not rocket science-
"Ungodly men, wandering stars for whom the blackness of darkness is reserved forever" (Jude 1:4-19)
Jesus said:- "Whoever rejects me rejects God" (Luke 10:16)

 

[Cintra]

I am an atheist, however I am deeply spiritual. I don’t like to say agnostic because there is no way I will ever subscribe to a religion.

Funny you should say that.
I always thought of atheism as a belief system, like a religion.
You have to believe there is no god.

They can't prove it.

 

[Cintra]

And I really hate to say this, but on this point (and this point alone) @Tidal is right. Dawkins and co are unpleasantly smug.

 

[Tidal]

..I am an atheist, however I am deeply spiritual. I don’t like to say agnostic because there is no way I will ever subscribe to a religion..

Good for you, I don't go to church myself because we don't need any organised religion to do our thinking for us..
Anyway Jesus is not "religion", he's simply Jesus and is looking for chums-

"You're my friends if you follow me. I don't call you servants, but I call you friends" (John 15:15)

 

[recure]

I highlighted that it is obtuse of you to assume that there are Muslims who have not studied that subject perhaps the texts have not been translated from the Muslim world into English. That was about crux of my comment.
Never said I read it or was even interested in pre-Islamic history.

The book you referred me to wasn't even written by a Muslim, as I already told you. Perhaps the elusive texts you refer to have not been translated into English, or perhaps they don't exist. It's not obtuse to assume something without evidence to the contrary, and you've proved by your own admission that you suggest books without knowing the contents thereof and not really caring. You prefer to remain aloof in your ahistorical Islamic fantasy instead of using your intellect to arrive at truth based on evidence, and so you resort to the usual copout response of 'I guess we'll see on the Day of Judgment who's right'.