Did Evolution Really Happen?

[Mr.Grieves]

How are these transitional fossils? All I see are a bunch of fossil heads that could belong to anything.

Show me a complete transitional skeletons/fossils that prove to be transitioning to another species.

What you'd see, if you were intellectually honest with yourself, is a great deal of skulls distinctly resembling but by no means the same as those of a human being. Obviously these couldn't 'belong to anything', they've got absolutely nothing in common with goat skulls or wolf skulls or fish skulls; they clearly have most in common with primate skulls (the category into which the human skull falls.), but belong to no modern species of primate.

Here are some images of transitional fossils, featuring species of dinosaur on their way to species of bird:

My point in a short way, was that for some, men with fancy man made titles (Dr./Archaelogist/Phd etc...) saying something means its true while for me, I think most institutions including scientific ones, are in existence to lead people to a certain conclusion (away from the truth) that those who control said institutions want them to be led to....

In terms of fossils and dinosaur bones no comment. However, about the society following a bunch of men with white lab coats like sheep I completely agree with you.

You do realize that men with fancy man-made titles and white coats cooked up the computer you're making these posts on, right? That Men with fancy man-made titles harnessed the power of electricity, came to understand and wield the Atom, discovered the existence of germs and microbes, invented antibiotics, discovered ways to eliminate entire diseases, discovered and mapped our DNA? And what's more, EVERYTHING these men with fancy titles did was open and remains open to scrutiny, change and advancement?

To say that scientists, the men and women who quite literally built the world in which you live, are all just conspiring liars spewing bunkum is completely asinine. That you can sit around for hours playing video-games with a wireless controller and then log into the world wide web to instantly converse with people all across the planet in order to tell them and actually believe yourself that scientists are liars is hilarious, if not incredibly sad.

 

[Kung Fu]

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evograms_03

How is any of that proof? Not only are there no transitional fossils of said whales there is no single fact of Ambulocetus actually being its first ancestor nor if it actually was aquatic. In other words, they took the fossils of a whale and Ambulocetus and claimed a bunch of things and all as possibilities and opinions. No real facts or science behind it.

 

[mecca]

You do realize that men with fancy man-made titles and white coats

*AND women

 

[Mr.Grieves]

*AND women

quite right, quite right!

 

[Loki]

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evograms_03

I think the problem with trying to convince people of evolution being real is that an actual understanding of evolution and what you are looking at and how it works, etc. takes a lot of knowledge that the typical person won't have. I personally believe that macro evolution likely did occur, but looking at that link I have no idea what they are showing me exactly or how it pertains to anything.

Edit: I did learn that hippos are closely related to whales though, which makes the most sense in the world but I'd never really thought about it.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Many have been fake. Scientists throughout the years have always all of a sudden found the "missing link" but they were all fakes. Why fake so many findings of evolution of one species turning into a completely different species when it's a supposed fact?

Quote from Stephen J Gould...

In 1980 Gould said,

‘The absence of fossil evidence for intermediary stages between major transitions in organic design, indeed our inability, even in our imagination, to construct functional intermediates in many cases, has been a persistent and nagging problem for gradualistic accounts of evolution.’

Source:
http://creation.mobi/gould-grumbles-about-creationist-hijacking

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I think the problem with trying to convince people of evolution being real is that an actual understanding of evolution and what you are looking at and how it works, etc. takes a lot of knowledge that the typical person won't have. I personally believe that macro evolution likely did occur, but looking at that link I have no idea what they are showing me exactly or how it pertains to anything.

Edit: I did learn that hippos are closely related to whales though, which makes the most sense in the world but I'd never really thought about it.

You make a great point here Loki - I get annoyed when creationists say something like 'how can a monkey turn into a man' as they have not understood that evolution teaches that you might be looking for a common ancestor in its 'tree of life'.

Equally evolutionists seem to think that creationists don't believe in speciation. Most intelligent creationists take the view that kinds of animals and plants have substantial variation possibilities built in.

This concept might be best illustrated in dogs, where specific genes are selected out from a wider potential pool. Not all dogs can easily interbreed, but they are all variants of a wolf and no new information has been created.

In this view you would get an 'orchard' of creation, where varieties of forms emerge from rich genetic stock. You may disagree with this idea, but it is still worth properly understanding the 'opposing' view...

 

[Kung Fu]

What you'd see, if you were intellectually honest with yourself, is a great deal of skulls distinctly resembling but by no means the same as those of a human being. Obviously these couldn't 'belong to anything', they've got absolutely nothing in common with goat skulls or wolf skulls or fish skulls; they clearly have most in common with primate skulls (the category into which the human skull falls.), but belong to no modern species of primate.

Here are some images of transitional fossils, featuring species of dinosaur on their way to species of bird:

Those skulls could have just belonged to regular primates. They're really no different to the skulls of the primates of today. There are various types primates and the slight changes in their skulls and bone structure is a simply a case of adaptation.

I'm not going to be addressing your dinosaur claim seeing as it's not really saying anything and by that I mean we have no idea what the dinosaurs actually looked like when they were alive in terms of skin, and etc.

You do realize that men with fancy man-made titles and white coats cooked up the computer you're making these posts on, right? That Men with fancy man-made titles harnessed the power of electricity, came to understand and wield the Atom, discovered the existence of germs and microbes, invented antibiotics, discovered ways to eliminate entire diseases, discovered and mapped our DNA? And what's more, EVERYTHING these men with fancy titles did was open and remains open to scrutiny, change and advancement?

To say that scientists, the men and women who quite literally built the world in which you live, are all just conspiring liars spewing bunkum is completely asinine. That you can sit around for hours playing video-games with a wireless controller and then log into the world wide web to instantly converse with people all across the planet in order to tell them and actually believe yourself that scientists are liars is hilarious, if not incredibly sad.

I apologize for not being clear. What I mean is that the common man has no idea what goes into these studies of science and really have no idea how any of it works but yet because these people that conduct these scientific experiments wear white lab coats they believe them at face value. These people in white lab coats could come out and tell us that rather Jupiter is the center of our universe and people would believe it without actually performing the studies themselves.

Don't get me wrong I believe there is legit scientific studies in which scientists want to progress for the sake of science but I also believe that there are scientists that twist studies to suit their purposes or the purposes of their masters.

 

[Kung Fu]

I think the problem with trying to convince people of evolution being real is that an actual understanding of evolution and what you are looking at and how it works, etc. takes a lot of knowledge that the typical person won't have. I personally believe that macro evolution likely did occur, but looking at that link I have no idea what they are showing me exactly or how it pertains to anything.

Edit: I did learn that hippos are closely related to whales though, which makes the most sense in the world but I'd never really thought about it.

I don't think Mecca even looked at the links she sent me. I find every time I discuss with people about evolution their first response is to go to Google and just link me the first thing on their search.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I don't think Mecca even looked at the links she sent me. I find every time I discuss with people about evolution their first response is to go to Google and just link me the first thing on their search.

Certain information never makes it through the filter of Nature and New Scientist...

https://www.icr.org/article/7160/

The conclusion of which was:

"DNA could not last half a million years, but paleontologists describe DNA in samples designated millions of years old. Ditching the millions-of-years dogma would resolve this dilemma. The clearly detected dinosaur proteins and what looks like dinosaur DNA make sense if the earth layers that contain them were deposited by Noah’s Flood only thousands of years ago."

Unless they have invented a 'cover' story...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/science/2015/jun/09/75-million-year-old-dinosaur-blood-and-collagen-discovered-in-fossil-fragments

 

[KoncreteMind]

You do realize that men with fancy man-made titles and white coats cooked up the computer you're making these posts on, right? That Men with fancy man-made titles harnessed the power of electricity, came to understand and wield the Atom, discovered the existence of germs and microbes, invented antibiotics, discovered ways to eliminate entire diseases, discovered and mapped our DNA? And what's more, EVERYTHING these men with fancy titles did was open and remains open to scrutiny, change and advancement?

To say that scientists, the men and women who quite literally built the world in which you live, are all just conspiring liars spewing bunkum is completely asinine. That you can sit around for hours playing video-games with a wireless controller and then log into the world wide web to instantly converse with people all across the planet in order to tell them and actually believe yourself that scientists are liars is hilarious, if not incredibly sad.

Well going along with the general theme of this website, I think there is a group(s) in control of what the public receives in regards to history, religion, science etc.. Therefore, I do believe they tell the truth at times, but lie at other times to confuse/lead us astray. I mean they all but eliminated Tesla from the scientific discussion. If that isnt an agenda in science for those who believe theres no agenda in what the public is told about "science" than I dont know what is.

I think its naive to believe that they control things such as government/politics/music/tv/food etc.. but then we go to school and learn the absolute truth in regards to science and history. It just doesnt make sense to accept everything they say in regards to these things anymore, because now as things are coming to a boiling point the truth is coming out.

 

[Mr.Grieves]

Those skulls could have just belonged to regular primates. They're really no different to the skulls of the primates of today. There are various types primates and the slight changes in their skulls and bone structure is a simply a case of adaptation.

Except scientists who devote their lives to the study of such things adamantly state otherwise and can demonstrate why/how at great length. I hope you can admit that the notion that all of these people are liars and swindlers is a stretch, to say the least.
https://www.pathwayz.org/Tree/Plain/APE+VS.+HOMININ+SKULLS

I apologize for not being clear. What I mean is that the common man has no idea what goes into these studies of science and really have no idea how any of it works but yet because these people that conduct these scientific experiments wear white lab coats they believe them at face value. These people in white lab coats could come out and tell us that rather Jupiter is the center of our universe and people would believe it without actually performing the studies themselves.

This is patently false. For one, the common man can indeed become very deeply immersed in how the scientists in various fields of study do their work, and frequently can and do take up scientific fields of study as amateurs/hobbyists. If these people devote themselves to that field of study thoroughly enough, they cease to be amateurs and hobbyists. Science is inaccessible only up to your unwillingness/inability to access it. If someone claimed 'Jupiter is the center of the universe', it wouldn't matter how prominent they are in the scientific community, because other scientists, or 'people in lab coats', will endeavor to prove him wrong. While its absolutely true that science isn't 'perfect', and that false premises, theories and findings come down the pipeline and can take time to be disproved, the whole objective of science is to scrutinize all ideas as thoroughly as possible in order to ascertain the truth. It's this method which has produced such magnificent truths as those which allow us to carry on this conversation.

because now as things are coming to a boiling point the truth is coming out.

If anything, truth is more elusive now than it ever has been, being usurped by opinion in all things... to the point that people are actually starting to adamantly believe that the world is flat again, in spite of the wild abundance of wholly verifiable evidence to the contrary.

 

[mecca]

Why can't you believe that God created evolution?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Why can't you believe that God created evolution?

That would be an option in evolution made more sense ;-)

I knew there was a good link on the topic somewhere...

https://answersingenesis.org/missing-links/

 

[Kung Fu]

This is patently false. For one, the common man can indeed become very deeply immersed in how the scientists in various fields of study do their work, and frequently can and do take up scientific fields of study as amateurs/hobbyists. If these people devote themselves to that field of study thoroughly enough, they cease to be amateurs and hobbyists. Science is inaccessible only up to your unwillingness/inability to access it. If someone claimed 'Jupiter is the center of the universe', it wouldn't matter how prominent they are in the scientific community, because other scientists, or 'people in lab coats', will endeavor to prove him wrong. While its absolutely true that science isn't 'perfect', and that false premises, theories and findings come down the pipeline and can take time to be disproved, the whole objective of science is to scrutinize all ideas as thoroughly as possible in order to ascertain the truth. It's this method which has produced such magnificent truths as those which allow us to carry on this conversation.

Since we're not going to get anywhere with the evolution aspect of this discussion due to no proper physical evidence of macro evolution being present, I'll address this little part.

If you were truthful with yourself you would know that the common public don't really get involved to the level you're insinuating here. You know damn right the majority of people are not going to find how these studies were done, what methodology was used, which scientists were the participates, and or who funded the experiments.

If the majority of the scientists came together and said that "Jupiter was the center of the universe" people would believe it. The majority of Americans believed that Iraq had "Weapons of Mass Destruction" which is why the majority of Americans supported the invasion of Iraq. That should tell you everything you need to know and anything you state otherwise is wishful thinking.

 

[Kung Fu]

Why can't you believe that God created evolution?

If they all of a sudden found complete sets of transitional fossils of our "ancestral" primate leading up all the to humans along with explaining the Cambrian Explosion with the proper fossil records needed to explain it I wouldn't have a problem with it. Provided that it was established that the fossils were real and not fakes. But so far all we have are opinions and evidence that goes completely against that.

 

[Mr.Grieves]

If you were truthful with yourself you would know that the common public don't really get involved to the level you're insinuating here. You know damn right the majority of people are not going to find how these studies were done, what methodology was used, which scientists were the participates, and or who funded the experiments.

I never stated that the majority of people are scientists or engage in scientific fields of study in a thorough and active way. What I said was that any person, particularly in this day and age, has the ability to pursue scientific fields of study if they choose, and that the only barrier between the common person and fields of scientific study are their own levels of interest and aptitude. That the majority of people don't care too doesn't change that.

If the majority of the scientists came together and said that "Jupiter was the center of the universe" people would believe it.

If the majority of scientists came together and proclaimed this, without the prior verified knowledge that it absolutely isn't, then yes, people would likely believe this. The majority of scientists would never reach this conclusion however, as there's a complete dearth of evidence to that effect. Science, however, very often is a matter of the minority swaying the majority, such as the discovery of the Atom which the majority of the scientific community was highly skeptical of, prior to a minority proving it beyond all shadow of a doubt. That's how science works.

The majority of Americans believed that Iraq had "Weapons of Mass Destruction" which is why the majority of Americans supported the invasion of Iraq. That should tell you everything you need to know and anything you state otherwise is wishful thinking.

This is a total non-sequitur. Propaganda absolutely exists, and it surely lies to the public every day about all kinds of heinous things, but 'weapons of mass destruction' in Iraq wasn't a conclusion of the scientific community, it was a lie told by politicians. It was the scientific community, in particular forensic science, who eventually proved this was never the case. Thus, without the scientific community to challenge and disprove the premise of 'WMD's in Iraq, the truth would not have come out as fact.

Why can't you believe that God created evolution?

In my case, because I see no compelling evidence to suggest as much.

 

[KoncreteMind]

If anything, truth is more elusive now than it ever has been, being usurped by opinion in all things... to the point that people are actually starting to adamantly believe that the world is flat again, in spite of the wild abundance of wholly verifiable evidence to the contrary.

Nah its just that more and more people are starting to question the official narrative. While others accept history and science EXACTLY as they were taught it in school... If thats the way it was supposed to be we would hear more of Tesla in regards to what we're taught about science...

 

[Loki]

I don't think Mecca even looked at the links she sent me. I find every time I discuss with people about evolution their first response is to go to Google and just link me the first thing on their search.

If it makes you feel any better, when I last argued with you and (I believe) Scimi over the topic I did some serious research into it and read the majority of the articles I found to present to you guys. But I don't blame Mecca or anyone for doing that, it takes up a serious amount of time and when you personally already have the belief it's kind of hard to wrap your brain around trying to explain it to other people who don't share the belief.

While I've yet to successfully convince anyone of evolution being real or the globe being a thing, I've at least learned a lot of cool science stuff while attempting to do so.

 

[mecca]

Ya know what's funny? I'm in science class right now and we're learning about Evolution at this very moment. (Yes, I use my computer in class)

Should I record it for you guys who don't believe? lol jk