Can you be spiritual without being religious?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Can you be spiritual without being religious?

Spirituality might be exemplified by this quote.

John 6 ; 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

One can practice spirituality alone. One cannot practice religiosity without a group/tribe.

Religiosity, I would define roughly, as promoting an organized or local church/temple/tribe etc.

Spirituality ignores our tribal instincts. Our religiosity demand that we cater to our tribal/fellowship needs.

If you are spiritually minded and have a working moral system that you think is the best, I think that you should want to share it and have others follow it. To share it should have you join a church or religion so as to promote your good thinking.

Does a spiritual mind, if truly spiritual, have to join a religion, even if not morally up to your standard, in order to share your view and perhaps help that religion rise up to your better standard of excellence?

If you answer yes to that question, is that why spiritually minded atheists and others now forming atheist churches or churches that take a more secular role within society?

Regards

DL

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

A great question that leads to many others...
If you picture most materialists as being people who deny the world outside their own metaphorical front door, then all "spiritual" people do is step outside and see the sunshine by acknowledging there is a reality beyond the physical.

Are all journeys outside equal? Is it possible to end in a worse part of town under your own uninformed wandering? Are there some places you can never reach without a plane or a rocket?

 

[Vytas]

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

A great question that leads to many others...
If you picture most materialists as being people who deny the world outside their own metaphorical front door, then all "spiritual" people do is step outside and see the sunshine by acknowledging there is a reality beyond the physical.

Are all journeys outside equal? Is it possible to end in a worse part of town under your own uninformed wandering? Are there some places you can never reach without a plane or a rocket?

Thanks.

Spiritual = of the mind/soul.
Materialist=of the body/politic.

The materialist houses the mind and must and should be cared for properly. The spiritual guides that that care is done in a moral way. That is why I say that the spiritual person might seek a church to help his fellow adherents to a more moral way of life, if he is allowed to preach it when it happens to not fit well in the churches ideology.

Topics in that category might be speaking out against homophobia and misogyny which is strong in some religious traditions.

"Is it possible to end in a worse part of town under your own uninformed wandering?"

Indeed it is. That is part of why a spiritual person will voice his thinking and subject it to criticism to either confirm he is correct or the opposite if he cannot argue his position well, to recognize the flaws in it.

A win win situation either way. No?

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Demons are imaginary. Spiritual thinking people are not.

Let's stick to reality please.

Regards
DL

 

[Vytas]

Demons are imaginary. Spiritual thinking people are not.

Let's stick to reality please.

Regards
DL

We have different realities then, it ok though...In above answer to RSaM you said spiritual = of mind/soul. I agree it is awesome when mind and soul is unity. It is interesting that you acknowledge soul as something real, but demons are not, so in life we have to worry only about our body, there are no dangers for our soul ?

And it is completely ok to be religious without church/ community, happens quite often too. I would say people gather to groups not because of tribal instincts but because it is easier and faster to grow spiritually in group than alone...

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

We have different realities then, it ok though...In above answer to RSaM you said spiritual = of mind/soul. I agree it is awesome when mind and soul is unity. It is interesting that you acknowledge soul as something real, but demons are not, so in life we have to worry only about our body, there are no dangers for our soul ?

And it is completely ok to be religious without church/ community, happens quite often too. I would say people gather to groups not because of tribal instincts but because it is easier and faster to grow spiritually in group than alone...

Spirituality, to me, happens alone. That is why Jesus preached to pray in private, closeted in fact, which is something that neither Christianity or Islam do even though they both say they respect Jesus.

As to soul, you see it as one thing while I see it as our life force.

Enlightenment and spirituality happen in our minds. That is what does the thinking. Those are mental treasures.

Gnostic Jesus was questioned as to what sees the vision?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/maps/primary/mary.html

The Saviour answered and said, 'He does not see through the soul nor through the spirit, but the mind which [is] between the two - that is [what] sees the vision...'

For where the mind is, there is the treasure.

Matthew 6:21 For where yourtreasure is, there will your heart be also.

The treasure is in you and your mind. Not your soul.

I do not like fantastical or supernatural thinking. The bible is clear on this when it says to put away the things of children. The supernatural is for children. Not adults.

Regards
DL

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@Gnostic Christian Bishop

This is an interesting example of a conversation I have had on "oneism" and "twoism". Let me explain what I mean...

In "oneism", which is the filter through which you appear to view reality, the journey of the spiritual is to connect more deeply with yourself.

In "twoism" (where you are both a distinct spiritual entity and capable of encountering other spiritual entities that are not "part of you") the journey involves both a growth in true understanding of self and understanding at the very real "other".

My experience supports my belief in the latter as the correct understanding of the spiritual landscape.

You define your assumptions according to your core beliefs, then draw your conclusions based on the assumption that they are true. Perhaps we all do this to an extent (especially when we wish to make a point) which is where evidence for those beliefs comes in to play...

And that is another conversation !

 

[UnderAlienControl]

Matthew 18:20
"For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst."

 

[mecca]

You can be spiritual without organized religious institutions. But you can also gather with other religious/spiritual people without an organized religious institution and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[EpistemiX]

I believe I am spiritual although I'm a-religious and this has led me to a crisis because I have no religion I can claim I belong to yet. However, I am trying to find a religion I can invest my faith in. I already believe in God, but have no real direction and have entered a spiritual limbo without religion.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Matthew 18:20
"For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst."

That rather goes against the religious notion of an Omni-present god. No?

So why would you go by that quote and ignore what Jesus said about praying in private?

Jesus preached meditation. Do you also ignore that mediation should be done in private?

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

You can be spiritual without organized religious institutions. But you can also gather with other religious/spiritual people without an organized religious institution and there's nothing wrong with that.

Indeed.

The thing is though, if you happen to belong to a religion and think you have a good way of thinking that might not be the way your religion thinks, bringing it to your religion is important to both you and the religion as a healthy debate on it would correct the one who is wrong.

I see that as a win win. Do you?

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

In "twoism" (where you are both a distinct spiritual entity and capable of encountering other spiritual entities that are not "part of you") the journey involves both a growth in true understanding of self and understanding at the very real "other".

This sounds like telepathic communication and few believe in that.
It happens I do.
Is that how you believe two consciousness can communicate with each other?

Have you had such an experience, and if so, why not cut out the middle man, so to speak and reach out for God's consciousness and gain the oneness of the whole universe?

That, BTW, is what they call apotheosis or theosis. I have claimed forcing my apotheosis but no one ever wants to believe me and tend to use labels like delusional etc.

I agree with the rest of what you put.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

I believe I am spiritual although I'm a-religious and this has led me to a crisis because I have no religion I can claim I belong to yet. However, I am trying to find a religion I can invest my faith in. I already believe in God, but have no real direction and have entered a spiritual limbo without religion.

The direction should be towards whatever ideology, religion or system that helped you believe in God. No?

Who or what made you a believer?

As an aside, if your God wants you slaved to a religion, then most mainstream religions like Christianity and Islam will do that. If your God wants you to be a free thinker, then I suggest Gnostic Christianity.

Does your God, like Jesus, say he is to serve you, or is your God expecting you to serve him?

I assume here that he is a he and not a she or an it.

Regards
DL

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

This sounds like telepathic communication and few believe in that.
It happens I do.
Is that how you believe two consciousness can communicate with each other?

Have you had such an experience, and if so, why not cut out the middle man, so to speak and reach out for God's consciousness and gain the oneness of the whole universe?

That, BTW, is what they call apotheosis or theosis. I have claimed forcing my apotheosis but no one ever wants to believe me and tend to use labels like delusional etc.

I agree with the rest of what you put.

Regards
DL

I think it's like the Brits and Americans - separated by a common language! We can think we agree when we describe a "bum" whereas one may be referring to a homeless guy and the other something you sit on ;-)

I believe that God can communicate with me by his Spirit, and this happens regularly. I also believe fallen spiritual beings can communicate with us if we open the door to them. They are also able to communicate a powerful narrative which is in opposition to God.

I don't really buy into telepathy, or any other special spiritual powers emanating from within. I believe that as a Christian you can move in the gifts if the Spirit, but the power is His, not mine.

For what its worth, I don't buy the Hindu concept of the great oneness or absolute. Just call me awkward ;-)

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

I think it's like the Brits and Americans - separated by a common language! We can think we agree when we describe a "bum" whereas one may be referring to a homeless guy and the other something you sit on ;-)

Why use such a deflection from an answer to the issue at hand? Especially since I did not disagree or mock.

Be you a Brit or damned near anyone else, telepathy means mind to mind communication.

Regards
DL

 

[EpistemiX]

The direction should be towards whatever ideology, religion or system that helped you believe in God. No?

Absolutely!

Who or what made you a believer?

God did! Nothing makes sense without the Prime Inference of God!

As an aside, if your God wants you slaved to a religion, then most mainstream religions like Christianity and Islam will do that. If your God wants you to be a free thinker, then I suggest Gnostic Christianity.

I think the above is disrespectfully relayed. I don't believe those who follow a faith are slaves. Willing servants of God for the betterment of humanity, and the world, yes. The word "slave" has a very negative connotation. And is a huge strawman argument to make considering you do not know my position, nor theirs in general either! If you are citing a sample study then I would recommend you study the philosophy of scientific enquiry, in order to understand the logical fallacy you entertain with such notions of making a general statement based on a limited sample study. That is, if it's a sample study which is responsible for your disrespectful comment!

Does your God, like Jesus, say he is to serve you, or is your God expecting you to serve him?

God is God, there are no other Gods beside God. I've already answered your question above.

I assume here that he is a he and not a she or an it.

Sure.

Regards
DL

And regards to you too!

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Why use such a deflection from an answer to the issue at hand? Especially since I did not disagree or mock.

Be you a Brit or damned near anyone else, telepathy means mind to mind communication.

Regards
DL

I did go on to reply (end of last post) i'm just on a mobile so my one typing finger is now weary!

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

God did! Nothing makes sense without the Prime Inference of God!

Science does not agree with you. Neither do I.

Science went all the way to the Big Bang before creating their God of the Gaps.

Religions invented their Gods of the Gaps from the get go, so why would you take the less enlightened religious God of the Gaps.

As to slavery. It sounds liker you have a slave holding ideology so take your pick of Islam or Christianity.

Yahweh demand you obey all he command and Allah demand you submit to all he commands.

Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.

Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing

that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/theft-values/

Humanity centered religions, good? Yes.

Supernaturally based religions, evil? Yes.

Do you agree?

Regards

DL