Atheist minister fighting to keep job

[makeorbreak]

In the news is the story of an ordained United Church of Canada who has openly claimed she is an atheist. The General Council wants to fire her but she's fighting it. She says it more important to live your life right than what you believe in and that the idea of a deity who cares for and protects us is outdated.

Her attempts to keep her job has been blocked by the General Council who won't set a date for an ecclesiastical court to hear her appeal. She has managed to hold onto her job since a major upset in 2008 when she dropped the Lord's Prayer in her church and two-thirds of her congregation left.

The United Church of Canada prides itself on being tolerant with an eye toward diversity and inclusiveness but they are worried that if they let her go on, it might break the United Church of Canada apart. She says she will continue to hold her "humanistic" views but wants to continue with the United Church of Canada despite the fact her ordination vows included affirming a belief in God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

In my mind, I can see both sides of this argument but I have to side with the church. I'm not particularly religious and my belief system does not preclude a power much greater than us, guiding us. However, I can't say that a physical being is responsible for everything we do, say or think. So, her view that religion is about how you live your life and how you treat others is valid but she has a contract of sorts with the church. If she does not truly believe in what the church espouses, then she should be willing to leave and to go to a humanist church to preach what she believes.

I could not attend a church where I knew my minister or paster did not believe what they preached. I may have to find a new butcher as it is. I just found out they're a vegetarian.

 

[Hubert]

So long as she is honest with her congregation about her beliefs, and the congregation accepts her, I believe that she should keep her job. However, I can also understand the church's position.

I don't care if my butcher is vegetarian, so long as my stake is cut the way I order.

 

[makeorbreak]

How about the surgeon who faints at the sight of blood?

 

[elsbet]

Having a hard time believing this one.

Kind of comical-- the Church should conform to one woman's belief. Indeed, they should serve her, and pay her for the privilege. lol .. next it'll be a union job.

Interesting though about the 1/3. True story or a false one, the significance isn't lost on me. 33% of the congregation remains... right.

 

[makeorbreak]

Story was in Globe and Mail so the story is true, even the 1/3, 100 of 150 congregation left, is true. Didn't see the significance of 1/3 stayed with her until you mentioned it, good catch. Hope they haven't made any plans for the 1000 year millennial kingdom.

 

[Hubert]

How about the surgeon who faints at the sight of blood?

You changed your analogy. In the first example the belief did not necessarily impair the ability to preform the job, but in the second it clearly does. My position is predicated upon the idea that the minister's congregation knows of and accepts her belief. If she is able to serve her congregation to their satisfaction she should keep her job.

 

[makeorbreak]

Sorry, just trying a little humor, just as in a vegetarian butcher, a lawyer who will lie to win a case, a judge who supported Clinton but wears a Trump hat in court the day after the election or a doctor telling you to stop smoking while he smells like cigarette smoke.

 

[Thunderian]

Having a hard time believing this one.

Kind of comical-- the Church should conform to one woman's belief. Indeed, they should serve her, and pay her for the privilege. lol .. next it'll be a union job.

Interesting though about the 1/3. True story or a false one, the significance isn't lost on me. 33% of the congregation remains... right.

The story is absolutely true. The United Church of Canada is a joke. No actual church would even debate letting an atheist woman be a pastor. It's ridiculous.

 

[Vytas]

Yeah I will lead people to God, I don't believe He exists but whatever. Almost like fortune teller, i will say to you what you want to hear, about rest i have no idea...

 

[Kung Fu]

So she doesn't believe in God or Jesus or the Trinity but yet she wants to continue working preaching?

 

[mecca]

Why does she preach in a church if she doesn't believe in God?

 

[Thunderian]

So the woman's name is Gretta Vosper, and apparently this has been going on since 2001. That's when she declared she no longer believes in God.

She says:

In 2001, I made it clear that I did not believe in a supernatural, interventionist, divine being. At first, I identified as a non-theist as I do in my first book published in 2008. Then, in my second book, I felt the need to further distinguish myself from those who used the term non-theist but retained a belief in the supernatural aspects of god; there, I identified as a theological non-realist. In 2013, I embraced the term atheist which means, literally, no belief in a theistic, supernatural being.​

So now it's 2017 and the United Church of Canada still has this woman on the rolls as a minister. She still leads a church. Oh, last year -- fifteen full years since she publicly rejected God -- the UCC panel in charge of the matter found that Vosper is "not suitable to continue in ordained ministry", but have not gotten around to defrocking her, and just the other day said they are postponing the matter indefinitely.

Like I said, a joke.

 

[elsbet]

Why does she preach in a church if she doesn't believe in God?

Maybe she has a nice pension.. who knows.

So the woman's name is Gretta Vosper, and apparently this has been going on since 2001. That's when she declared she no longer believes in God.

She says:

In 2001, I made it clear that I did not believe in a supernatural, interventionist, divine being. At first, I identified as a non-theist as I do in my first book published in 2008. Then, in my second book, I felt the need to further distinguish myself from those who used the term non-theist but retained a belief in the supernatural aspects of god; there, I identified as a theological non-realist. In 2013, I embraced the term atheist which means, literally, no belief in a theistic, supernatural being.​

So now it's 2017 and the United Church of Canada still has this woman on the rolls as a minister. She still leads a church. Oh, last year -- fifteen full years since she publicly rejected God -- the UCC panel in charge of the matter found that Vosper is "not suitable to continue in ordained ministry", but have not gotten around to defrocking her, and just the other day said they are postponing the matter indefinitely.

Like I said, a joke.

Wow.. bet she sells a lot of books in the antiChurch lobby. -.- Strange that people still attend. Or rather her remaining one-third. :/

Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth.
Rev 12:4

Uncanny lol

 

[Hubert]

So the woman's name is Gretta Vosper, and apparently this has been going on since 2001. That's when she declared she no longer believes in God.

She says:

In 2001, I made it clear that I did not believe in a supernatural, interventionist, divine being. At first, I identified as a non-theist as I do in my first book published in 2008. Then, in my second book, I felt the need to further distinguish myself from those who used the term non-theist but retained a belief in the supernatural aspects of god; there, I identified as a theological non-realist. In 2013, I embraced the term atheist which means, literally, no belief in a theistic, supernatural being.​

So now it's 2017 and the United Church of Canada still has this woman on the rolls as a minister. She still leads a church. Oh, last year -- fifteen full years since she publicly rejected God -- the UCC panel in charge of the matter found that Vosper is "not suitable to continue in ordained ministry", but have not gotten around to defrocking her, and just the other day said they are postponing the matter indefinitely.

Like I said, a joke.

Awesome, sounds like the UCC is accepting the will of the congregation over dogma.

 

[elsbet]

Awesome, sounds like the UCC is accepting the will of the congregation over dogma.

None of it was ever compulsory. They could have just as easily joined a Unity *church*.

Unless Canada fund$ this particular church? I bet it does.. heh, greedy bastards.