Aisha's age at the time of her marriage

TempestOfTempo

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@TempestOfTempo
You're a little off balance when you accuse random people of pedophillia.
don't over exaggerate.

the grooming gangs stuff in the uk has nothing to do with that hadith ffs.
literally those are guys who drink alcohol, use drugs and commit ADULTERY..and you know what islam says about adultery.
Where am I randomly calling people pedos? I realize their wicked ways... but there aint no way that Im going to think that the over-arching ped agendas BnB's have inserted into "deen" aint had an effect on the moral degeneracy that plagues the world under the guise of hadeeth and other innovations. So yes, I agree that they fall into the temptation traps and dont have the strength to control their desires... but pedo ish has been ingrained into them, and they dont seem to be able to break away... or even want to really.
 
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Where am I randomly calling people pedos? I realize their wicked ways... but there aint no way that Im going to think that the over-arching ped agendas BnB's have inserted into "deen" aint had an effect on the moral degeneracy that plagues the world under the guise of hadeeth and other innovations. So yes, I agree that they fall into the temptation traps and dont have the strength to control their desires... but pedo ish has been ingrained into them, and they dont seem to be able to break away... or even want to really.
come on man 'these people' is an easy way of wholesale generalising about muslims. you mentioned grooming gangs in the same vein.
even this post does the same thing. likewise you're generalising about the hadith aswell.
i told you ive been studying hadith since i was 10.

you already know that id efend the bible, right? but ill tell you this, having read the entire bible multiple times, the hadith outweight the bible, in content, 10x over. there are way too many hadith.
i wouldnt judge the entire bible based off some crackhead story about Solomon, from the book of kings, or the song of songs literotica story.

eg Solomon: i had all the pussy in the world, it didnt phase me, just vanity
2billion+ christians: he got swayed by egyptian pussy, started worshipping idols.

you're judging content that is 10x larger then the bible, over 1 poltiically influenced 'hadith' nd then dissing people for believing in hadith, effectively as pedos 'it's ingrained in them'
wtf man, you should join the sam harris club.
 

TempestOfTempo

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What do you want to hear? These hadeeth are pretty much defended/accepted throughout the entire Muslim world. If we dont call it out and stand up, what are we doing? And calling it out means pressuring the Muslims who are complicit by their inaction as well as those actively engaged in this horror show. Point blank, it took the whole of born-and-bred Muslims to bring us to this point... so either they get serious about doing their part to right the ship.... or they simply get out of the way while the reverts try our best to do so.
 
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Right, and if I am not mistaken, men took young girls as WIVES. Not sex objects, not justifying p***philia. p***philia is when they objectify and molest children, in this case he took her as a wife, this can be researched even back in the historical days, Victorian, Egyptian etc...
What kind of nonsense is this?!

If a man marries a CHILD and has s*x with her, how is that any less p3d0philia than if he doesn't marry her but "objectifies" her? Why asume wives are not "objectified"?
Marrying children is disgusting, period. What does "objectification" have to do with it - abuse is abuse.


And no, the Bible says nothing about Mary's age, nor that her and Joseph never had s*x. That's catholic fan fiction.

Apologies since it's not directly about the thread topic.
 

A Freeman

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Previously posted for everyone's benefit...

p***philia is a form of r*pe, i.e. a violent and unlawful sexual assault, perpetrated against a weaker, defenseless individual, specifically in this case against a child. It unjustly robs a child of their innocence, and is the epitome of injustice and oppression, as an older, physically stronger and wicked, out-of-control adult human forcefully steals what they want from a smaller, physically weaker child incapable of fighting back.

r*pe is a capital offense under The Law that God gave us to protect us from this sort of evil and to set and keep us free from injustice and oppression (Deut. 22:23-27).

No God-fearing dad would ever allow his children to be molested by some p***phile. The dad's role as the head of the family is to be the protector and spiritual guide. That's why The Law that God gave us judges those who afflict a defenseless, fatherless child in ANY way, to be guilty of a capital crime.

Exodus 22:22-24
22:22 Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child.
22:23 If thou afflict them in any wise, and they cry at all unto Me, I will surely hear their cry;
22:24 And My wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.

See also Deut. 24:17, 27:19.


There are many other similar references found elsewhere in the Old Covenant. Please see a few examples below:

Psalm 82:2-3
82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? The rock.
82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

Isaiah 1:17 Learn to do well; seek Judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

Jeremiah 22:3 Thus saith the "I AM"; Execute ye Judgment and Righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood in this place.


The Gospel accounts contain the same message from Jesus+Christ:

Matthew 18:6-7
18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

Mark 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of [these] little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

Luke 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

The Koran/Quran repeatedly COMMANDS its readers to read, study and keep The Law and the Gospel that the Koran was sent to CONFIRM, and to NOT be in doubt of the TRUE Law and Gospel (the Bible) reaching them.

A few examples:

Sura 3:1-3
3:1. A. L. M. (Almighty. Loving. Merciful.)
3:2. Allah (God). There is no God but He,- the Living, the Self-Existing (YHWH - "I AM"), Eternal.
3:3. It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it and He sent down The Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the Criterion (of Judgment between right and wrong).

Sura 6:154-157
6:154. Moreover, We gave Moses the Book (Torah), COMPLETING (Our favour) to those who would do right, and explaining ALL things IN DETAIL,- and a GUIDE and a MERCY, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord.
6:155. And this (Torah) is a Book which We have revealed as a BLESSING: so follow it and be righteous, that YE may receive mercy (Sura 32:23):
6:156. Lest YE should say: "The Book (Torah) was sent down to two Peoples before us, and for our part, we remained unacquainted with all that they learned by careful study:"
6:157. Or lest YE should say: "If the Book (Torah) had only been sent down to US, we should have FOLLOWED its guidance BETTER than they (Sura 32:23)." Now then hath come unto YOU a clear (Sign) from your Lord,- and a GUIDE and a MERCY: then who could do MORE WRONG than one who rejecteth "I AM"'s Signs (and Torah - Bible), and turneth away therefrom? In good time shall We requite those who turn away from Our Signs, with a dreadful penalty, for their turning away.

Sura 15:9-10
15:9. We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
15:10. We did send Apostles BEFORE THEE amongst the religious sects (John 17:21; Sura 6:159) of old:

Sura 32:23. We did indeed aforetime give the Book (Torah) to Moses: be then NOT IN DOUBT of its (The Torah) reaching (THEE): and We made it a Guide to the Children of Israel.

See also Suras 2:53, 2:87-93, 2:97-98, 3:48-50,4:54, 5:46-51, 6:91-94, 7:157, 9:111, 10:37, 11:17, 12:111, 17:2-4, 21:48, 22:52-55, 23:20, 23:49, 25:35, 28:1-3, 35:25-32, 37:117, 40:53, 40:70, 41:45, 42:14-17, 45:16, 46:12, 46:30, 48:29, 53:36-47, 57:25-29,61:6-7, 78:2.

The Koran/Quran therefore does NOT in any way condone p***philia, anymore than the Bible does. The only way someone can mistakenly believe otherwise is to take a specific verse out of context, and pretend that God's Law (found only in the first five books of the Bible) somehow no longer applies, which is ridiculous (Matt. 5:17-18, Sura 5:49).

The reason the totally fabricated story of Aisha was added to the totally fabricated "Islamic tradition" (hadith) was to try to legalize p***philia. It's the same reason that the Roman Catholic church added the totally fabricated story of the adulterous woman to the Bible, to condone and promote adultery which, like r*pe and p***philia, is a capital crime under The Perfect Law that God gave us.

If everyone would read, study and keep The Law, instead of arguing over the doctrinal differences among the various sects – all of which are similarly prohibited by The Law – everyone would benefit, and child molestation, p***philia, adultery, r*pe and all other forms of theft would no longer be tolerated.

Learn The Way home or face The Fire.
 
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Messages
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What do you want to hear? These hadeeth are pretty much defended/accepted throughout the entire Muslim world. If we dont call it out and stand up, what are we doing? And calling it out means pressuring the Muslims who are complicit by their inaction as well as those actively engaged in this horror show. Point blank, it took the whole of born-and-bred Muslims to bring us to this point... so either they get serious about doing their part to right the ship.... or they simply get out of the way while the reverts try our best to do so.
1)

Historically hadith were not for public consumption unless they were specifically wrote or read out by qualified scholars who at least to some degree knew what they were talking about.

The real issue is that the hadith exists and is a very real historical source of information.
No one has a right to delete it..that is not what muslims are about. We don't revise our history to suit us. Just like when you read the old testament and it condemns their scribes (eg in Jeremiah), no rabbi would have the right to delete that verse.

What we can do however is showcase the point that hadith are not religious scripture per se, but historical sources of information with political influence.
that doesnt mean we cant derive religious insight from hadith (because i certainly have), but certainly shouldnt be assuming hadith are unquestionably divine in their origin and the literal word of our prophet.


2) post-modern pseudo-islamic revivalism created so many sub-sects and movements that most muslims certainly have been influenced by a sort of renewed mindset where they think 'authentic islam' is 'ONLY QURAN AND HADITH'. it's almost amantra.
when i used to quote the bible to make a point on any given topic, it was often met with a straight up dismissal and 'my religion is Quran and hadith only'.

make no mistake, the average muslim living in some place like pakistan, doesnt sit around studying hadith like we do.
id argue that being a muslim in the west gives us such contrasting life experiences and arguments that we're forced to go deeper into ourselves and in islam.
i think the younger generations in those countries are more in tune with online semantics though, but they're on mobile phones. they arent like me sitting at desk doing actual research for hours in my own time just thinking about things. like andrew tate talks about, people are into short form content now. they dont sit around dwelling on topics like we do.

you'll find there are MANY muslims with my mindset in the west. who see the bigger picture in things.


3) posting a video of some village muppet in afghanistan or yemen shagging 9 yr olds, then saying 'yoo doo somethig stand up'
wtf can i do? beat them up? call the police? they do not give a solitary fuck. they're used to being big fish in small ponds taking advantage of the weakest and dumbest.
if i could just X out those tyoe of people, i would.
 

TempestOfTempo

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Joined
Jan 29, 2018
Messages
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What kind of nonsense is this?!

If a man marries a CHILD and has s*x with her, how is that any less p3d0philia than if he doesn't marry her but "objectifies" her? Why asume wives are not "objectified"?
Marrying children is disgusting, period. What does "objectification" have to do with it - abuse is abuse.


And no, the Bible says nothing about Mary's age, nor that her and Joseph never had s*x. That's catholic fan fiction.

Apologies since it's not directly about the thread topic.
Its directly related... because what sugarprincess stated was incorrect. Since it never happened, it couldnt have been a case of child trafficking/r*pe masquerading as "Marriage" as hadeeth supporters cannot prove their timeline... wheras the timeline claiming 17-19 aligns much more closely with standard, accepted world chronological history.
 

TempestOfTempo

Superstar
Joined
Jan 29, 2018
Messages
7,986
Previously posted for everyone's benefit...

p***philia is a form of r*pe, i.e. a violent and unlawful sexual assault, perpetrated against a weaker, defenseless individual, specifically in this case against a child. It unjustly robs a child of their innocence, and is the epitome of injustice and oppression, as an older, physically stronger and wicked, out-of-control adult human forcefully steals what they want from a smaller, physically weaker child incapable of fighting back.

r*pe is a capital offense under The Law that God gave us to protect us from this sort of evil and to set and keep us free from injustice and oppression (Deut. 22:23-27).

No God-fearing dad would ever allow his children to be molested by some p***phile. The dad's role as the head of the family is to be the protector and spiritual guide. That's why The Law that God gave us judges those who afflict a defenseless, fatherless child in ANY way, to be guilty of a capital crime.

Exodus 22:22-24
22:22 Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child.
22:23 If thou afflict them in any wise, and they cry at all unto Me, I will surely hear their cry;
22:24 And My wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.

See also Deut. 24:17, 27:19.


There are many other similar references found elsewhere in the Old Covenant. Please see a few examples below:

Psalm 82:2-3
82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? The rock.
82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

Isaiah 1:17 Learn to do well; seek Judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

Jeremiah 22:3 Thus saith the "I AM"; Execute ye Judgment and Righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood in this place.


The Gospel accounts contain the same message from Jesus+Christ:

Matthew 18:6-7
18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

Mark 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of [these] little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

Luke 17:2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

The Koran/Quran repeatedly COMMANDS its readers to read, study and keep The Law and the Gospel that the Koran was sent to CONFIRM, and to NOT be in doubt of the TRUE Law and Gospel (the Bible) reaching them.

A few examples:

Sura 3:1-3
3:1. A. L. M. (Almighty. Loving. Merciful.)
3:2. Allah (God). There is no God but He,- the Living, the Self-Existing (YHWH - "I AM"), Eternal.
3:3. It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it and He sent down The Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the Criterion (of Judgment between right and wrong).

Sura 6:154-157
6:154. Moreover, We gave Moses the Book (Torah), COMPLETING (Our favour) to those who would do right, and explaining ALL things IN DETAIL,- and a GUIDE and a MERCY, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord.
6:155. And this (Torah) is a Book which We have revealed as a BLESSING: so follow it and be righteous, that YE may receive mercy (Sura 32:23):
6:156. Lest YE should say: "The Book (Torah) was sent down to two Peoples before us, and for our part, we remained unacquainted with all that they learned by careful study:"
6:157. Or lest YE should say: "If the Book (Torah) had only been sent down to US, we should have FOLLOWED its guidance BETTER than they (Sura 32:23)." Now then hath come unto YOU a clear (Sign) from your Lord,- and a GUIDE and a MERCY: then who could do MORE WRONG than one who rejecteth "I AM"'s Signs (and Torah - Bible), and turneth away therefrom? In good time shall We requite those who turn away from Our Signs, with a dreadful penalty, for their turning away.

Sura 15:9-10
15:9. We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption).
15:10. We did send Apostles BEFORE THEE amongst the religious sects (John 17:21; Sura 6:159) of old:

Sura 32:23. We did indeed aforetime give the Book (Torah) to Moses: be then NOT IN DOUBT of its (The Torah) reaching (THEE): and We made it a Guide to the Children of Israel.

See also Suras 2:53, 2:87-93, 2:97-98, 3:48-50,4:54, 5:46-51, 6:91-94, 7:157, 9:111, 10:37, 11:17, 12:111, 17:2-4, 21:48, 22:52-55, 23:20, 23:49, 25:35, 28:1-3, 35:25-32, 37:117, 40:53, 40:70, 41:45, 42:14-17, 45:16, 46:12, 46:30, 48:29, 53:36-47, 57:25-29,61:6-7, 78:2.

The Koran/Quran therefore does NOT in any way condone p***philia, anymore than the Bible does. The only way someone can mistakenly believe otherwise is to take a specific verse out of context, and pretend that God's Law (found only in the first five books of the Bible) somehow no longer applies, which is ridiculous (Matt. 5:17-18, Sura 5:49).

The reason the totally fabricated story of Aisha was added to the totally fabricated "Islamic tradition" (hadith) was to try to legalize p***philia. It's the same reason that the Roman Catholic church added the totally fabricated story of the adulterous woman to the Bible, to condone and promote adultery which, like r*pe and p***philia, is a capital crime under The Perfect Law that God gave us.

If everyone would read, study and keep The Law, instead of arguing over the doctrinal differences among the various sects – all of which are similarly prohibited by The Law – everyone would benefit, and child molestation, p***philia, adultery, r*pe and all other forms of theft would no longer be tolerated.

Learn The Way home or face The Fire.
Wish I could like that post a billion times...
"No God-fearing dad would ever allow his children to be molested by some p***phile. The dad's role as the head of the family is to be the protector and spiritual guide."
EXACTLY! Before any "Dad" sells his daughter off because of poverty or other "reasons" he better grab a weapon and take every bit of wealth he can from the perv in question who is after his child... and if the perv wont relent, he should pay with his life. This aint just on males either... every female complicit in this is nothing but a child predator as well.
 

TempestOfTempo

Superstar
Joined
Jan 29, 2018
Messages
7,986
1)

Historically hadith were not for public consumption unless they were specifically wrote or read out by qualified scholars who at least to some degree knew what they were talking about.

The real issue is that the hadith exists and is a very real historical source of information.
No one has a right to delete it..that is not what muslims are about. We don't revise our history to suit us. Just like when you read the old testament and it condemns their scribes (eg in Jeremiah), no rabbi would have the right to delete that verse.

What we can do however is showcase the point that hadith are not religious scripture per se, but historical sources of information with political influence.
that doesnt mean we cant derive religious insight from hadith (because i certainly have), but certainly shouldnt be assuming hadith are unquestionably divine in their origin and the literal word of our prophet.


2) post-modern pseudo-islamic revivalism created so many sub-sects and movements that most muslims certainly have been influenced by a sort of renewed mindset where they think 'authentic islam' is 'ONLY QURAN AND HADITH'. it's almost amantra.
when i used to quote the bible to make a point on any given topic, it was often met with a straight up dismissal and 'my religion is Quran and hadith only'.

make no mistake, the average muslim living in some place like pakistan, doesnt sit around studying hadith like we do.
id argue that being a muslim in the west gives us such contrasting life experiences and arguments that we're forced to go deeper into ourselves and in islam.
i think the younger generations in those countries are more in tune with online semantics though, but they're on mobile phones. they arent like me sitting at desk doing actual research for hours in my own time just thinking about things. like andrew tate talks about, people are into short form content now. they dont sit around dwelling on topics like we do.

you'll find there are MANY muslims with my mindset in the west. who see the bigger picture in things.


3) posting a video of some village muppet in afghanistan or yemen shagging 9 yr olds, then saying 'yoo doo somethig stand up'
wtf can i do? beat them up? call the police? they do not give a solitary fuck. they're used to being big fish in small ponds taking advantage of the weakest and dumbest.
if i could just X out those tyoe of people, i would.
I agree with much of what you post. But I also believe that the problem is rooted so deeply, and that the compromises are so severe, that these people are no longer "misguided Muslims"... they are heretics. Their mosques and theology are drenched in shirk and once Muslims stray (or sprint towards) such a state... we have no real way to reason with them. I am through trying to reason with grown adults who justify their tsunami of intentionally inflicted child suffering... how can we expect anything real/decent from people who innovated their faith to the point of blasphemy in order to justify child predatory acts on a mass scale, justified by their own spiritual compromise? Much of the Muslim world actually claims hadeeth are divine texts along with Quran. There is no hope for people who deny the basic tenants of a faith in order to justify their clearly statanic designs.
 

A Freeman

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Joined
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Messages
6,575
Wish I could like that post a billion times...
"No God-fearing dad would ever allow his children to be molested by some p***phile. The dad's role as the head of the family is to be the protector and spiritual guide."
EXACTLY! Before any "Dad" sells his daughter off because of poverty or other "reasons" he better grab a weapon and take every bit of wealth he can from the perv in question who is after his child... and if the perv wont relent, he should pay with his life. This aint just on males either... every female complicit in this is nothing but a child predator as well.
What's difficult to understand is why anyone believes anything that is written in the self-contradictory hadith.

On the one hand, some pretend the Bible has been corrupted, including The Law that God gave us, even though the Quran plainly states that could NEVER happen. That way these same pretenders can claim Lot would have never gotten so drunk he passed out, and thus didn't know when his daughters laid with him, but on the other hand they can believe that Muhammad (a name/title which means "Praised One") allegedly married a little girl and (allegedly) knowingly took her innocence by (allegedly) having sexual relations with her (or, alternatively, raised her for several years as a child before having sexual relations with her). Have they not read what The Law or the Gospel of Jesus say about the mistreatment of children?

The Gospel of Jesus, as recorded by Matthew
18:1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in The Kingdom of heaven?
18:2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and [then] become as little children, ye shall NOT enter into The Kingdom of heaven.
18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in The Kingdom of heaven.
18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into Life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into Everlasting Fire.
18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into Life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell-fire.
18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.


This couldn't be made any clearer. Someone ought to cut their own male member off if they've done anything sexual to a child, and everyone else should enforce The Law against all such p e d o p h i l e s, realizing that it's a capital crime to do such things.

We ought to throw the satanic hadith and its not-so-subtle message about molesting children into The Fire, which is where every single unrepentant criminal is going to find themselves on the Last Day. God gave us the Old Covenant/Testament, New Covenant/Testament and the Koran/Quran; He most certainly didn't give us the divisive, self-contradictory hadith (or the talmud, or the catechism, or the book of mormon, or any of the other man-made doctrines and traditions).

If we get rid of the hadith, how do we know "Aisha" even existed? All we have to claim that some of the hundreds of thousands of hadiths are allegedly authentic is the totally untrustworthy "good-fella" system (isnaad), fabricated hundreds of years later, along with the hadith itself.
 

TempestOfTempo

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Messages
7,986
What's difficult to understand is why anyone believes anything that is written in the self-contradictory hadith.

On the one hand, some pretend the Bible has been corrupted, including The Law that God gave us, even though the Quran plainly states that could NEVER happen. That way these same pretenders can claim Lot would have never gotten so drunk he passed out, and thus didn't know when his daughters laid with him, but on the other hand they can believe that Muhammad (a name/title which means "Praised One") allegedly married a little girl and (allegedly) knowingly took her innocence by (allegedly) having sexual relations with her (or, alternatively, raised her for several years as a child before having sexual relations with her). Have they not read what The Law or the Gospel of Jesus say about the mistreatment of children?

The Gospel of Jesus, as recorded by Matthew
18:1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in The Kingdom of heaven?
18:2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and [then] become as little children, ye shall NOT enter into The Kingdom of heaven.
18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in The Kingdom of heaven.
18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into Life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into Everlasting Fire.
18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into Life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell-fire.
18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.


This couldn't be made any clearer. Someone ought to cut their own male member off if they've done anything sexual to a child, and everyone else should enforce The Law against all such p e d o p h i l e s, realizing that it's a capital crime to do such things.

We ought to throw the satanic hadith and its not-so-subtle message about molesting children into The Fire, which is where every single unrepentant criminal is going to find themselves on the Last Day. God gave us the Old Covenant/Testament, New Covenant/Testament and the Koran/Quran; He most certainly didn't give us the divisive, self-contradictory hadith (or the talmud, or the catechism, or the book of mormon, or any of the other man-made doctrines and traditions).

If we get rid of the hadith, how do we know "Aisha" even existed? All we have to claim that some of the hundreds of thousands of hadiths are allegedly authentic is the totally untrustworthy "good-fella" system (isnaad), fabricated hundreds of years later, along with the hadith itself.
What has been the response of born-and-bred "Muslims" when you present this evidence to them?
 
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I agree with much of what you post. But I also believe that the problem is rooted so deeply, and that the compromises are so severe, that these people are no longer "misguided Muslims"... they are heretics. Their mosques and theology are drenched in shirk and once Muslims stray (or sprint towards) such a state... we have no real way to reason with them. I am through trying to reason with grown adults who justify their tsunami of intentionally inflicted child suffering... how can we expect anything real/decent from people who innovated their faith to the point of blasphemy in order to justify child predatory acts on a mass scale, justified by their own spiritual compromise? Much of the Muslim world actually claims hadeeth are divine texts along with Quran. There is no hope for people who deny the basic tenants of a faith in order to justify their clearly statanic designs.
here's why hadith are important, this a key key hadith that absolutely hits the spot so perfectly.

Narrated Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman: The people used to ask Allah's Apostle about good, but I used to ask him about evil for fear that it might overtake me. Once I said, "O Allah's Apostle! We were in ignorance and in evil and Allah has bestowed upon us the present good; will there by any evil after this good?" He said, "Yes." I asked, "Will there be good after that evil?" He said, "Yes, but it would be tained with Dakhan (i.e. Little evil)." I asked, "What will its Dakhan be?" He said, "There will be some people who will lead (people) according to principles other than my tradition. You will see their actions and disapprove of them." I said, "Will there by any evil after that good?" He said, "Yes, there will be some people who will invite others to the doors of Hell, and whoever accepts their invitation to it will be thrown in it (by them)." I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Describe those people to us." He said, "They will belong to us and speak our language" I asked, "What do you order me to do if such a thing should take place in my life?" He said, "Adhere to the group of Muslims and their Chief." I asked, "If there is neither a group (of Muslims) nor a chief (what shall I do)?" He said, "Keep away from all those different sects, even if you had to bite (i.e. eat) the root of a tree, till you meet Allah while you are still in that state." (Book #56, Hadith #803)

ill explain context
the key sign of a religion on the right path, is JERUSALEM/THE TEMPLE MOUNT. So when it describes 'the first evil', that corresponds to the loss of jerusalem at the first crusade.
you know what came after that and before the muslim victort? sufi islam. whilst you probably don't know the big names of sufi islam, i can tell you that at one stage India had an awliya (a friend of Allah) called Moinuddin Chishti
till this day he's considered the most important sufi to have graced india.
another sufi who is considered the 'wali of walis' (awliya/wali means the same thing. Just as the bible mentions Melkizedek, muslims consider this man, the greatest sufi of every one of them.
so islam was revived by the sufis and then came the second conquest of Jerusalem.

What does the hadith say about this second 'good'?
es, but it would be tained with Dakhan (i.e. Little evil)." I asked, "What will its Dakhan be?" He said, "There will be some people who will lead (people) according to principles other than my tradition. You will see their actions and disapprove of them.
that is, sufis innovated some things, what muslims call 'bidah'(innovation).

Then came the rise of house saud and the wahabi movement together. That was the beginning of islamic revivalism after muslims were conquered. it led to most of islam taken over by new movements and sub-sects with revivalist ideas.

The prophet said 'follow the GROUP OF MUSLIMS and their CHIEF'
note, the majority ie the 'group' is sunni with that sufi leaning. The chief was the ottomon sultanate ie the prophet was basically saying 'stick with them, dont fight against them'./ The wahabis did and thus the loss of the holy land and the end of the sultanate.

you can see for yourself how the hadith ends. that is our time.

in the end it isnt our job to be trying to revive anything or trying to fix islam. there are bigger people than us.

in Genesis God promised He would raise 12 PRINCES from Ishmael. Ishmael was blessed to become 'a great nation'
it makes perfect sense that this could only happen after Jesus ie after shiloh. The gentiles period...and hence islam. I try to emphasise this point to christians. We are living in the Beast, in Rome. i live in the UK, these colonial powers were the rise of end times rome, as former roman colonies. how great were colonial powers and now the US?
to be a 'great nation' and 'blessed' by God, certainly means islam has to accomplish a far far greater political system on earth.

Those 12 princes are the 12 caliphs of Quraysh, here is the hadith
Narrated Jabir ibn Samurah: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The religion will continue to be established till there are twelve caliphs over you, and the whole community will agree on each of them. I then heard from the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) some remarks which I could not understand. I asked my father: What is he saying: He said: all of them will belong to Quraysh.

the 12th btw is the redeemer of islam. The imam Mahdi.

Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: If only one day of this world remained. Allah would lengthen that day (according to the version of Za'idah), till He raised up in it a man who belongs to me or to my family whose father's name is the same as my father's, who will fill the earth with equity and justice as it has been filled with oppression and tyranny (according to the version of Fitr). Sufyan's version says: The world will not pass away before the Arabs are ruled by a man of my family whose name will be the same as mine.

this is an event that'll come to pass. probably after house saud falls.

The hadith contain prophecies that are scary accurate in so many ways. For example house saud had a tradition of passing on the kingship from older to younger brother. The previous king didnt elevate his own many sons, but his younger brother. The new king decided to take out his other brothers, his nephews of previous kings and promote his own son.
his son wants peace with israel. His son rejects haditgh. in fact this prince has jewish blood in him and has openly said he has jewish blood in him.
Not only that but in the hadith it says dajjal will have be staying on the mountains of Madina, trying to end islam basically by converting all muslims to his religion. He will fail...but that bit about the mountains of Madina led house saud to built 'dajjals palace'
google 'dajjal's palace' it is some scary sh**
you see satanic masonic buildings all over Riyadh which is in the region of Najd.

The prophet said this about Najd
Narrated Ibn 'Umar: (The Prophet) said, "O Allah! Bless our Sham and our Yemen." People said, "Our Najd as well." The Prophet again said, "O Allah! Bless our Sham and Yemen." They said again, "Our Najd as well." On that the Prophet said, "There will appear earthquakes and afflictions, and from there will come out the side of the head of satan." (Book #17, Hadith #147)

sham btw is the levant region inc palestine and syria.
we know what side Yemen is on today and we know who's side Saudi is on.

this is the major turning point

Narrated Umm Salamah, Ummul Mu'minin: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Disagreement will occur at the death of a ruler (note the false translations have used the word 'caliph' to make us look away from house saud) and a man of the people of Medina will come flying forth to Mecca. Some of the people of Mecca will come to him, bring him out against his will and swear allegiance to him between the Corner and the Maqam. An expeditionary force will then be sent against him from Syria but will be swallowed up in the desert between Mecca and Medina. When the people see that, the eminent saints of Syria and the best people of Iraq will come to him and swear allegiance to him between the Corner and the Maqam. Then there will arise a man of Quraysh whose maternal uncles belong to Kalb and send against them an expeditionary force which will be overcome by them, and that is the expedition of Kalb. Disappointed will be the one who does not receive the booty of Kalb. He will divide the property, and will govern the people by the Sunnah of their Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and establish Islam on Earth. He will remain seven years, then die, and the Muslims will pray over him.

the other figure here is 'kalb'. basically, it's Assad or someone after him. that is not subjective, literally the banu kalb bloodline is this

the other thing is, this period also coincides with the descent of Jesus and the fall of the beast system. we believe Jesus and the Imam Mahdi willb e here together..
and for anyone from a christian background who doesnt understnd their connection...
Revelation 2
26 To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27 that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’[b]—just as I have received authority from my Father. 28 I will also give that one the morning star. 29 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.


remember the key point is about ALL INJUSTICE and oppression.
so that inc child rapists and the rest. in fact most muslims who witness immense evil see it as a sign of end times. Don't think muslims are sure of ourselves right now, we literally know we are broken with so much evil amongst us.

its just like when catholics say 'it is the jesuits doing all the satanic practices, not authentic catholics'.

Finally i think the hadith are mostly good but not perfect or divinely protected, so there's going to be things in the hadith that arent accurate to the letter, but MOST will be accurate.
 

TempestOfTempo

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It sounds like according to your post Im already doing what I should/can... stand up for the truth, but stand apart from born-and-bred Muslims.

"Then came the rise of house Saud and the wahabi movement together. That was the beginning of islamic revivalism after muslims were conquered. it led to most of Islam taken over by new movements and sub-sects with revivalist ideas."
My understanding is that The German Kaiser and the Ottoman chief made a deal to join forces... the Muslims would rise up against Imperial Britain & co. and the German chief pledged to defend Islamic holy sites. When the call to arms was issued, the Muslims failed to respond because the Brits & co. had cut a deal with the House of Saud and whabists behind the rightful rulers back. Initially, the ruler said "Sure, the Jewish people can come live here as there is plenty of land for everyone... so long as I remain in control of Islams three holiest sites, the Jewish people are welcome."

That wasnt good enough for the Zionists and their backers so that ruler was ousted and replaced with the House of Saud, who were onboard with Western/Zionist machinations for the region... so long as THEIR own decadence and corruption were fed. Conversely, the Germans and Muslims were defeated which set the stage for.... the rise of the Third Reich and the establishment of Israel.

This is historical fact eh?
 

A Freeman

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What has been the response of born-and-bred "Muslims" when you present this evidence to them?
As one might expect from what God has revealed.

Sura 5:107. When it is said to them: "Come to what Allah hath revealed; come to the Messenger": they say: "Enough for us are the ways we found our fathers following." What! even though their fathers were void of Knowledge and Guidance?
 

TempestOfTempo

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As one might expect from what God has revealed.

Sura 5:107. When it is said to them: "Come to what Allah hath revealed; come to the Messenger": they say: "Enough for us are the ways we found our fathers following." What! even though their fathers were void of Knowledge and Guidance?
Similar experience here. And often when I present this, their response is "that refers to non-Muslims"... which is true, but not in the sense the think their excuse was employed for.
 

A Freeman

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Similar experience here. And often when I present this, their response is "that refers to non-Muslims"... which is true, but not in the sense the think their excuse was employed for.
The cited verse (one of many such references in the Quran) actually refers to ALL of the sects/denominations. We have all been influenced and divided against one another and against God by "the traditions of the fathers", which make the Commandments of God of no effect.

And that's exactly what needs to come to an end for us to unite as a single brotherhood determined to do God's Will, exactly as it says in the Old Covenant/Testament, New Covenant/Testament and in the Koran/Quran.
 

TempestOfTempo

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The cited verse (one of many such references in the Quran) actually refers to ALL of the sects/denominations. We have all been influenced and divided against one another and against God by "the traditions of the fathers", which make the Commandments of God of no effect.

And that's exactly what needs to come to an end for us to unite as a single brotherhood determined to do God's Will, exactly as it says in the Old Covenant/Testament, New Covenant/Testament and in the Koran/Quran.
I have hope, but I also have a feeling a massive culling will be involved as well.
 

TempestOfTempo

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That's what the prophecies say as well, along with why it's all happening: because we haven't kept The Law that God gave us.
Its madness... and I think many are caught in a daze, but I also think they know full well what they are doing when they make those decisions to abandon the ethics that come with the faith.
 
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