“If God did not create evil then who did? Who has the power of creation in your universe?”

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So do you think evil is Gods perfect will?

by the way “xtian”

Might I suggest that if you want people to bother discussing with you as an adult, you may want to drop the condescending attitude.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil:


a christian would know...a xtian wouldn't.
 

Daze

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Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil:


a christian would know...a xtian wouldn't.
To be fair, massive chunks of the Bible are completely ignored by trinitarians. Anything they don't like apparently doesn't exist.

To be honest, this thread is useless when the question is answered with one verse. But as i said, it doesn't exist to some people.

Who was the user on the old forums that kept posting the picture of the little girl with her fingers in her ears? Reminds me of Red and every other trinny here.
 

Bubbajay

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To be fair, massive chunks of the Bible are completely ignored by trinitarians. Anything they don't like apparently doesn't exist.

To be honest, this thread is useless when the question is answered with one verse. But as i said, it doesn't exist to some people.

Who was the user on the old forums that kept posting the picture of the little girl with her fingers in her ears? Reminds me of Red and every other trinny here.
More Muslim attempts to derail threads. It seems every thread is a means to spread their debased views on things they know nothing about. Then they accuse others of doing the same thing. They're all hypocrites and should be ignored.
 

TokiEl

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God likens himself to a potter and man to clay potts.


So we are clay potts trying to figure out the potter.

I hope you understand that is not possible !


Instead of endless debate about this and that... shut up and be good.

That is possible.
 

Bubbajay

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Its obvious to everyone but yourselves that you should be heeding your own adviec
 
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To be fair, massive chunks of the Bible are completely ignored by trinitarians. Anything they don't like apparently doesn't exist.

To be honest, this thread is useless when the question is answered with one verse. But as i said, it doesn't exist to some people.

Who was the user on the old forums that kept posting the picture of the little girl with her fingers in her ears? Reminds me of Red and every other trinny here.
i call it selective amnesia and have experienced it many times from them.
For example, in John 16, Jesus made it clear that the Holy Spirit (ABSOLUTELY NOT GABRIEL BTW) is not greater than The Son (the Word/logos/image, not to be taken literally, a metaphorical judaic term).
So how could so called christians create a doctrine that states the Father, Son and holy spirit are 'co equals in Godhead'?
Jesus says the Son does not know the last hour, only the Father in heaven does. He says he can do nothing of his own, but only the Father does it through him. So clearly there's a heirarchy there (which should be obv to anyone with common sense)...but they cling onto this pagan roman doctrine.

they'll say 'He was FULLY GOD IN THE FLESH' and then later say 'oh no, when he didnt know the future, it was really 'jesus the son of man' talking.
'he played the suffering servant, but he was really God all along'.

my fav one is when they were saying 'MOHAMMED IS A SLAVE, JESUS IS THE SON'..and yet the single biggest evidence they use to support the crucifixion. isaiah 53, calls him 'MY SLAVE/abd'.

read it

by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many
and he will bear their iniquities.

servant/slave/abd, exactly as it is in arabic.
'sadiq abdi'

as it happens, prophet Mohammad was also called 'al sadiq'. Just another example of the connection between Jesus and islam, which these 'xtians' have no connection to. not a single part of it suggests Jesus is God.


it's simple. bible, which they say is GODS WORD, says 'God created evil'
and they're debating over this topic with us?
i think they're just in their feelings about muslims man. honestly.
if a muslim tells them God doesnt have a cock, they will absolutely insist that God does. that's the extent of their religion. they dont have any. it's just an identity crisis in the face of islam. a form of self worship./
 
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Red Sky at Morning

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Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil:


a christian would know...a xtian wouldn't.
I found this an interesting perspective….

Isaiah 45:7 in the King James Version reads, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” How does Isaiah 45:7 agree with the view that God did not create evil? There are two key facts that need to be considered. (1) The word translated “evil” is from a Hebrew word that means “adversity, affliction, calamity, distress, misery.” Notice how the other major English Bible translations render the word: “disaster” (NIV, HCSB), “calamity” (NKJV, NAS, ESV), and “woe” (NRSV). The Hebrew word can refer to moral evil, and often does have this meaning in the Hebrew Scriptures. However, due to the diversity of possible definitions, it is unwise to assume that “I create evil” in Isaiah 45:7 refers to God bringing moral evil into existence.

(2) The context of Isaiah 45:7 makes it clear that something other than “bringing moral evil into existence” is in mind. The context of Isaiah 45:7 is God rewarding Israel for obedience and punishing Israel for disobedience. God pours out salvation and blessings on those whom He favors. God brings judgment on those who continue to rebel against Him. “Woe to him who quarrels with his Master” (Isaiah 45:9). That is the person to whom God brings “evil” and “disaster.” So, rather than saying that God created “moral evil,” Isaiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of Scripture – that God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted rebellion against Him.


Surely a true Muslim would have looked this up. You didn’t, therefore are you now an Mslim? ;)
 
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Bubbajay

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i call it selective amnesia and have experienced it many times from them.
For example, in John 16, Jesus made it clear that the Holy Spirit (ABSOLUTELY NOT GABRIEL BTW) is not greater than The Son (the Word/logos/image, not to be taken literally, a metaphorical judaic term).
So how could so called christians create a doctrine that states the Father, Son and holy spirit are 'co equals in Godhead'?
Jesus says the Son does not know the last hour, only the Father in heaven does. He says he can do nothing of his own, but only the Father does it through him. So clearly there's a heirarchy there (which should be obv to anyone with common sense)...but they cling onto this pagan roman doctrine.

they'll say 'He was FULLY GOD IN THE FLESH' and then later say 'oh no, when he didnt know the future, it was really 'jesus the son of man' talking.
'he played the suffering servant, but he was really God all along'.

my fav one is when they were saying 'MOHAMMED IS A SLAVE, JESUS IS THE SON'..and yet the single biggest evidence they use to support the crucifixion. isaiah 53, calls him 'MY SLAVE/abd'.

read it

by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many
and he will bear their iniquities.

servant/slave/abd, exactly as it is in arabic.
'sadiq abdi'

as it happens, prophet Mohammad was also called 'al sadiq'. Just another example of the connection between Jesus and islam, which these 'xtians' have no connection to. not a single part of it suggests Jesus is God.


it's simple. bible, which they say is GODS WORD, says 'God created evil'
and they're debating over this topic with us?
i think they're just in their feelings about muslims man. honestly.
if a muslim tells them God doesnt have a cock, they will absolutely insist that God does. that's the extent of their religion. they dont have any. it's just an identity crisis in the face of islam. a form of self worship./
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in OUR image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

And Islam claims to be a continuation of the Old and New Testaments lol!! There's so many contradictions its unbelievable.
 
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Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in OUR image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

And Islam claims to be a continuation of the Old and New Testaments lol!! There's so many contradictions its unbelievable.
Dont get the point youre trying to make
The Image is the Wors/Logos/Son
The Son is a metaphorical judaic term

Say something with weight next time.
 

Lyfe

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Dont get the point youre trying to make
The Image is the Wors/Logos/Son
The Son is a metaphorical judaic term

Say something with weight next time.
You are getting your information from occult literature. The son isnt a metaphor for some occult or arcane concept.
 

Daze

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You are getting your information from occult literature. The son isnt a metaphor for some occult or arcane concept.
Interesting concept. Do the Jews says God has a son? I know the Muslims say he doesn't, while Christmas, Jesus alleged birth, is literally around the winter solstice, the birth of the sun.

Theres more occult in Christianity then Christians will ever admit.

1.jpg


Now Red can quote us a own eyed source, he seems to have alot of them.
 
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You are getting your information from occult literature. The son isnt a metaphor for some occult or arcane concept.
no i just understand the history and context behind the term when it was adopted for messianic use.
You xtians dont even know who philo is, you're too far behind.
 
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The point is God said our who was he talking to?

eg

But those who disbelieve and believe our Ayat (proofs, evidence, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) - such are the dwellers of the Fire. They shall abide therein forever.
(سورة البقرة, Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #39)

And (remember) when We took your covenant and We raised above you the Mount (saying), "Hold firmly to what We have given you and hear (our Word)." They said, "We have heard and disobeyed." And their hearts absorbed (the worship of) the calf because of their disbelief. Say: "Worst indeed is that which your faith enjoins on you if you are believers."
(سورة البقرة, Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #93)


this pagan nonsense is not part of the Abrahimic religion. it is Roman.
Furthermore the concept of '3' in it's truest form still seperates the exclusive Trancendent Father from the Son and Holy Spirit who are expressed of His Immanence. This subtle difference should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of intelligence really.
Jesus speaking as the Son/Logos said that the Father is greater than he, that he is nothing on his own, that he doesnt know the last hour etc. How on earth can you guys then cling onto this stupid idea that Jesus is literally 'Absolutely/Fully the Trancendent God'? it makes no sense.
Yes the LOGOS is Eternal, pre-causal etc, but that's because in the highest domain of God's Immanence (ie the Image/Logos/Son), everything exists eternally.
There is nothing past present or future that isn't already existing eternally in the Image of God. Causation/beginning simply is the core experience.
It's like if you have 0 representing infinity and then you have the 1 and all subsequent numbers. All numbers are expressions of 0 and whilst they come in their order and mathmatical sequence, they really all are eternal. Most monothiests dont ever think or understand this basic theme. They would confuse that with 'God' forgetting that the existance of a thing depends entirely on God's knowledge, which is Eternal anyway.
The key difference is understanding the difference between the Trancendent and Immanent.

Lastly, in John 16 Jesus also made it clear that the Holy Spirit comes after the Son and takes from the Son. As ive explained, it is the macrocosm and microcosm theme eg the Holy Spirit's role is to oversee the process of causation and dissolution hence 'The first and the last'.

Don't get me wrong though..in islam esp in sufi islam, the highest level of faith is to allow oneself to see God in all things. It's just you also have to see the difference between the logical 'monothiestic' pov which seperates God from creation and the mystical which Unites God in all.
The left brain and right brain perspective, yin and yang, representing the first and last. The metaphysical descent of consciousness and the ascent of consciousness.
None of the above is new age crap btw. ive read a lot of material and if you want to see the theme of this yin/yang passive/active in christianity, look up Madam Guyon and the difference between the path of queitism vs meditation, read her book Spiritual Torrents and a method of prayer.

most of what madam guyon understood was textbook sufism btw. it's just for her, trying to put it into a catholic approved context, knowing the catholic church was blatantly pagan, they locked her up and declares her a heretic when she was just a devout seeker of God.
 

Lyfe

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no i just understand the history and context behind the term when it was adopted for messianic use.
You xtians dont even know who philo is, you're too far behind.
There came a point and time in your life when you began to view Christians with disdain and contempt. Then out of your disdain and contempt you sought out any sort of literature that would feed you with what you wanted to hear( regardless if it was truthful or not). You gave yourself over to the New Age version of the Bible, or should I say the whitewash of the truth. There is never any consistency on Jesus in the New Age circles. One circle says hes an alien, another an ascended master, another just a mere symbol of the sun. People will glady accept any version of Jesus, but the real one, because they hate the version that makes them accountable to God the most. You have become a slave to your hatred.


2 Timothy 4:3-4

King James Version


3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
 

Lyfe

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Interesting concept. Do the Jews says God has a son? I know the Muslims say he doesn't, while Christmas, Jesus alleged birth, is literally around the winter solstice, the birth of the sun.

Theres more occult in Christianity then Christians will ever admit.

View attachment 64607


Now Red can quote us a own eyed source, he seems to have alot of them.
It is contended by some that Jesus was born in September. Whether he was or wasnt I havent looked into it that much, but paganism is basically the religion of the fallen angels. The significance of these dates derive from them and meaning behind alignments and stars and such. These dates are dictated and come from the heavens and the fallen angels. Its possible these beings just came and aasigned these dates to man with different and perverse meanings to blaspheme God. Dates in heaven that were supposed to initially be relevant to God were perverted by the fallen angels and their pagan religions.
 
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There came a point and time in your life when you began to view Christians with disdain and contempt. Then out of your disdain and contempt you sought out any sort of literature that would feed you with what you wanted to hear( regardless if it was truthful or not). You gave yourself over to the New Age version of the Bible, or should I say the whitewash of the truth. There is never any consistency on Jesus in the New Age circles. One circle says hes an alien, another an ascended master, another just a mere symbol of the sun. People will glady accept any version of Jesus, but the real one, because they hate the version that makes them accountable to God the most. You have become a slave to your hatred.


2 Timothy 4:3-4

King James Version


3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
so when i was reading St Augustine's material, i was 'new age derping'? madam guyon came a long time before the new age movement crap. she was a devout christian seeker of God. I found her book by accident but i was able to study it and understand it because i was familiar with a fair few themes.

Now about the rest, you're wrong. I defend the New testament, i believe in the crucifixion. I criticise muslims for lying on that front and ive been accused of basically being a non-muslim by some of them as a result. So no, i dont have blind allegiance to islam, my allegiance really is to search for my own sense of truth and to be open minded.

I respect christianity, authentic christianity that is. I mock this pagan xtianity of the western world that is far removed from authentic christianity from the middle east that once existed.
ive seen nothing but bs from 99% of the so called christians on this forum. I'm telling you about st augustine, madam guyon etc. devout legit christians who were true seekers. I get told 'derp derp derp' from you. you worship david wood though dont you?
 
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