And People Thought Blatant Racism Didn't Exist Anymore

[elsbet]

People are, in my opinion, at times understandably sensitive about black people being identified with monkeys. Leaving Cosell out of the equation, I don't think it's always an issue of wanting to misinterpret. In this case, I think the execs at H&M were ill-advised to use the image. Although I am not usually known as a "social justice warrior," maybe, unless it was controversy they wanted, they should have hired a diversity consultant prior to taking the sweatshirt to market.

My opinion, of course, but this one is an old hat-- quite worn out. I don't believe it slipped by for lack of diversity training. Either the pot was intentionally getting a stir, or people are just no longer making that association anymore (this would be good), and the hypersensitive are refusing to let it die. Again, my opinion.

 

[Serveto]

My opinion, of course, but this one is an old hat-- quite worn out. I don't believe it slipped by for lack of diversity training. Either the pot was intentionally getting a stir, or people are just no longer making that association anymore (this would good), and the hypersensitive are refusing to let it die. Again, my opinion.

I know the board can be hostile sometimes and one has to send one's opinion out in a coat of mail, or armor, but I like the old, worn out hat as well.

I, personally, and to clarify a bit, don't think that sensitivity to the issue invariably equates to hypersensitivity, though it can, especially given that, as has been pointed out above, there is an established, and by no means altogether forgotten, history of black people being identified with monkeys and apes. Perhaps the issue is if, by remembering that history, people are "refusing to let it die." I don't know and I have no answers.

 

[Kung Fu]

There were Arabs in Europe under Persian or Byzantium control?

The picture you posted which Plasticity was addressing didn't show any Arab armies "invading" any European country. What it did show was Arabs taking back their own lands and liberating other Arabs.

Like I said when your racist overtones are being revealed you guys have a habit of changing the subject and trying to put the blame elsewhere or deflect. You prove my point every single time. Thanks!

 

[Kung Fu]

I know the board can be hostile sometimes and one has to send one's opinion out in a coat of mail, or armor, but I like the old, worn out hat as well.

I, personally, and to clarify a bit, don't think that sensitivity to the issue invariably equates to hypersensitivity, though it can, especially given that, as has been pointed out above, there is an established, and by no means altogether forgotten, history of black people being identified with monkeys and apes. Perhaps the issue is if, by remembering that history, people are "refusing to let it die." I don't know and I have no answers.

It was intentional. All the other kids had illustrations of different animals but the only black kid got the "monkey in the jungle". Goes back to Darwin in his works Origin of Species where on the evolutionary chain blacks are the closest ancestors to monkeys and therefore the lowest on the evolutionary chain when it comes to humans (while whites were at the top).

 

[Etagloc]

I think Darwin is a chapter in the history of British imperialism.

I don't think I'm crazy to think there's something a little suspect about a guy whose most famous book is not titled.... On the Origin of Species....

we hear always about the book referred to as the Origin of Species... that is deliberately misleading....

the book's full title is On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life

 

[justjess]

I am a mother. I have children. So now that my credentials are out of the way..

Yes we call children little monkies sometimes, yes monkies are common on childrens clothing. However a parent calling their own kid a monley or putting an item of cloghing with a monkey on them is enfirely different then an ad campaign putting this shirt on the only black model it used when other animal shirts were availablr and also being advertised.

Marketing execs and advertiserz arent idiots. They are paid very well to know these types of assocjations and how things will be perceived and what emotions will br stirred up. Its their damn job. It wasnt some innocent oversight. And yes, it was racist.

Dont blame it on the parents either. Thats a real cheap lousy cop out, pass the buck on responsibility. Thats like blaming the poor person for being poor because they accepted low wages whilr ignlring that no one was makkng them a better offer.

 

[Aero]

I think it's a bit unfair to take a 400 page book and reduce it to an image, that may or not be there. There's nothing inherently racist about the theory of natural selection. We are all close to the primate family. I just don't get how Darwin became synonymous with racism. Maybe he was an open racist, but I don't see the connection some of you are making.

Just be honest and say you don't like secular teachings. Because we are all aware religion produces just as many racist weirdos as secularism.

 

[Kung Fu]

How would the store benefit by intentionally alienating or insulting a segment of the market they are apparently trying to reach?

Because them in their stupidity or at least one individual in their stupidity and racism thought they would be able to get away with it. Just look at all the other corporations that flaunt their blatant Satanic symbols to the public when it comes to their products but yet get away with it all the time.

 

[justjess]

Darwin isnt the problem, how pop culture uses darwin is.

 

[Kung Fu]

I think it's a bit unfair to take a 400 page book and reduce it to an image, that may or not be there. There's nothing inherently racist about the theory of natural selection. We are all close to the primate family. I just don't get how Darwin became synonymous with racism. Maybe he was an open racist, but I don't see the connection some of you are making.

Just be honest and say you don't like secular teachings. Because we are all aware religion produces just as many racist weirdos as secularism.

Have you read his book? His racism becomes even more heavy handed in his book The Descent of Man.

I'll tell you how Darwin became synonymous with racism. He, in his book, state that we're all relatives to apes but the blacks were the closest to the apes and therefore less evolved. Meaning they were less intelligent and more barbaric, which is why they were enslaved and put in zoos all across Europe. There were scientists before Darwin that stated something similar to this but Darwin sharpened it and popularized it leading Great Britain to use his ideas, go to Africa, take their things and enslave them because they were less evolved and needed "civilization" from the much more evolved humans the whites. Other European countries followed suite closely afterwards. It's not surprising that the majority of Britain (whites) believe in Darwinian evolution and I would say even worship him because he allowed them to maintain a higher ranking in the social ranking of life.

 

[Serveto]

Because them in their stupidity or at least one individual in their stupidity and racism thought they would be able to get away with it. Just look at all the other corporations that flaunt their blatant Satanic symbols to the public when it comes to their products but yet get away with it all the time.

In a for-profit institution such as a retail store, in marketing campaigns, even those which use heavy symbolism, the idea is usually to sell as many items as possible, to as broad and diverse a market as possible. I don't see how H&M would have gained by intentionally alienating a sizable segment of its market: not only black people, but the many others of us who, regardless of our skin color, won't put up with people being insulted. I still think they need to hire a better diversity consultant.

Even though you've already occasionally checked in and participated, welcome back @justjess!

 

[elsbet]

I know the board can be hostile sometimes and one has to send one's opinion out in a coat of mail, or armor, but I like the old, worn out hat as well.

I, personally, and to clarify a bit, don't think that sensitivity to the issue invariably equates to hypersensitivity, though it can, especially given that, as has been pointed out above, there is an established, and by no means altogether forgotten, history of black people being identified with monkeys and apes. Perhaps the issue is if, by remembering that history, people are "refusing to let it die." I don't know and I have no answers.

Yeah, I don't think it equates to hypersensitivity across the board-- that would be determined on a case by case basis. This one could be valid, if the people they claim are being insulted have protested. From the mum.. (@Thunderian 's article):

“I am the mum, and this is one of hundreds of outfits my son has modeled. Stop crying wolf all the time, [it’s] an unnecessary issue here. Get over it.. That’s my son, [I’ve] been to all photoshoots and this was not an exception. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about this… I really don’t understand but not [because I’m] choosing not to, but because it’s not my way of thinking. Sorry.”​

I shrug.. but the Brits just aren't as easily ruffled, as the American Hollywood royalty seem to be.

 

[Kung Fu]

In a for-profit institution such as a retail store, in marketing campaigns, even those which use heavy symbolism, the idea is usually to sell as many items as possible, to as broad and diverse a market as possible. I don't see how H&M would have gained by intentionally alienating a sizable segment of its market: not only black people, but the many others of us who, regardless of our skin color, won't put up with people being insulted. I still think they need to hire a better diversity consultant.

Even though you've already occasionally checked in and participated, welcome back @justjess!

Disney and Tacobell are for-profit institutions but yet Disney makes racist movies and Tacobell comes out with Satanic commercials. Why would they do this when they are possibly alienating certain groups of people from buying or partaking in their products?

 

[Etagloc]

Galton was a "pioneer" of eugenics- and Darwin's half-cousin.

Darwin was himself a eugenicist. Kung Fu is correct.

 

[Etagloc]

In a for-profit institution such as a retail store, in marketing campaigns, even those which use heavy symbolism, the idea is usually to sell as many items as possible, to as broad and diverse a market as possible. I don't see how H&M would have gained by intentionally alienating a sizable segment of its market: not only black people, but the many others of us who, regardless of our skin color, won't put up with people being insulted. I still think they need to hire a better diversity consultant.

Even though you've already occasionally checked in and participated, welcome back @justjess!

So basically.... the for-profit motive.....

what we would be assuming, following your logic... I think is that everything these companies do is essentially for profit and they are driven by a blind profit motive.

I think that is a myth.

A lot of this stuff that's getting put out..... it is put out with an agenda. This is not a pure capitalism- as it bills itself to be.

I mean because this movie and entertainment and media stuff... they will push agendas at the expense of their own profits. I've seen them put out movies that flopped and did horribly and other media that did horribly and do so because they were agenda-driven and not profit-driven.... I think people should be agenda-driven but their agenda should be benevolent....

I am sort of puzzled why they would put out the ad. I have no idea. Was it part of some sort of malicious conspiracy? I have no idea.....

whatever the reason behind the ad was.....

I am glad that people are reacting to it.... that is important because it sends a message that that sort of thing is not okay and does not allow it to become a precedent.

 

[Kung Fu]

Galton was a "pioneer" of eugenics- and Darwin's half-cousin.

Darwin was himself a eugenicist. Kung Fu is correct.

The Descent of Man is racist to its very core. It's funny that the majority of people that believe in Darwinian evolution haven't read his two most popular books.

 

[Serveto]

Disney and Tacobell are for-profit institutions but yet Disney makes racist movies and Tacobell comes out with Satanic commercials. Why would they do this when they are possibly alienating certain groups of people from buying or partaking in their products?

Good point. Disney, being an engine of Hollywood propaganda by itself, it seems to me is essentially in the opinion molding and manufacturing business, often disguised as entertainment, so it is motivated by more than merely profit. I would guess that TacoBell, being able to afford some of the better marketing analysts and diversity consultants, placed a bet on its commercial (advert) that its target market, late-night stoners who have the munchies and have been hanging out on truther and conspiracy boards, would want to subconsciously eat the eye of Horus in their tacos.

Anyway, next time I am in England, paying for clothing in pounds sterling, I think I will go to Marks & Spencer, or, better yet, Selfridges instead of H&M .

Yeah, I don't think it equates to hypersensitivity across the board-- that would be determined on a case by case basis.

Not that it is directly related, but there seems to be some parallels (in terms of public reaction). Does anybody remember the teapot that arguably resembled Adolf Hitler a few years ago? In that case, there seemed to be both sensitivity and the occasional hypersensitivity at work here in the colonies (USA). I haven't checked, but I think they are off the market and no longer available.

 

[Kung Fu]

Good point. Disney, being an engine of Hollywood propaganda by itself, it seems to me is essentially in the opinion molding and manufacturing business, often disguised as entertainment, so it is motivated by more than merely profit. I would guess that TacoBell, being able to afford some of the better marketing analysts and diversity consultants, placed a bet on its commercial (advert) that its target market, late-night stoners who have the munchies and have been hanging out on truther and conspiracy boards, would want to subconsciously eat the eye of Horus in their tacos.

Anyway, next time I am in England, paying for clothing in pounds sterling, I think I will go to Marks & Spencer, or, better yet, Selfridges instead of H&M .

I agree with you on your short analysis of Disney but I would stretch that analysis further and apply it to all major corporations. They are definitely profit driven but they are also power driven. I'm of the believe that they purposely mock us thinking that they can get away it and most of the time they do but not all the time. They think they can play "God" but not everyone is going to be dancing to their tunes.

Regardless, if people really want to show their support they shouldn't be purchasing from H&M.

 

[justjess]

Somebody thouhht they could sneak through a subliminal or altrrnatively was banking on the controversy. Either way was not accidental. This is literally the kind of thing marketing and ad people are paid to know and avoid/exploit.

Also, hi @Serveto !

 

[Kung Fu]

Somebody thouhht they could sneak through a subliminal or altrrnatively was banking on the controversy. Either way was not accidental. This is literally the kind of thing marketing and ad people are paid to know and avoid/exploit.

Also, hi @Serveto !

Exactly. However, what astonishes me is how some people on here continue to play it off like it wasn't racist or at least distasteful. And it's these people that I believe are racists deep down in some capacity.