Aisha's age at the time of her marriage

[Zakat]

I will say this once more.

What a total lack of modesty and respect to even want to know about what goes on between two people, let alone judge their relationship.

I wonder when humans started playing 'God'. Judgement is His, Alone.

Even in Islam, if somebody is suspected of fornication, there needs to be AT LEAST FOUR WITNESSES to the action of the thread going into the needle's hole

for judgement to take place, and that too, so much the better for people to pay for their sins here rather than in the afterlife!

 

[Zakat]

I was judged in South Africa for hitting my partner and she never came defend her police statement.

She ran away discreetly, pretending to have forgiven me while I was unaware that she was leaving.

I was restrained for 40 days and was let out on promise not to repeat it ever again. First time ever in a police cell, and a week or so after, in a prison cell, for the remaining 33 days.

I was arrested on my birthday in 2020 on the highway, around midnight maybe, while I was stranded and homeless and walking back to where we were staying. I too had left the Wendy house 2 days after her desertion.

Funny thing in court, my lawyer was addressing the white judge as "Your Worship", and I stuck to "Your Honor" the whole time, Alhamdulillāh.

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

Reality is if we go back only a 100 years we see "child marriage" was not only extremely common. It was literally the norm.

Globally.

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Even in the "Christian" west.

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The Bible itself is full of child marriage and if/when I get time I’m happy to dive into it. For example, Rebecca who was only 3 years old with Issac comes to mind. Also Mary, the mother of Jesus, was 12 while Joseph was in his 80's.

Call it fan fiction if you want. Many people put their fingers into their ears when something distasteful arrives.



There is a very big difference between fornication and marriage. In one scenario, she is considered a WIFE. In this case with Aisha, she stayed with the prophet until he died, it wasn't a 1 night stand.

Notice how no one mentions Kadeejah who was also the Prophet's (saw) wife, and she was 15 years older than him.


I haven't read a post by Tempo in well over a year because he's a vile person. So I have no desire to bump his thread. It is nothing more than troll bait.

But I assumed you to be better than the rest. Not saying that you're not, but know this is one of the proverbial dead horses on VC. It has been debated to death. While the reality is, you can't go back 3 or 4 generations without finding it in your own family tree. I can guarantee at some point, you yourself are a product of child marriage and that goes for everyone here.



Mentioning the age of Aisha is nothing more than a way to attack the prophet of Islam. Even though the practice was common amongst your own grandparents, let alone 1400 years ago.

Notice how millions have hated Islam the past millennia and Aisha's age was never brought up. Why do you think that is?
Because only in the liberal modern age has it become an issue. They say people are not an adult till 18. I say I know people who are 30 whom I don't consider to be adults.


There is a reason God gave women the ability to start a family at a young age. The concept of 18+ isn't even 100 years old. Truth be told it drives fornication because it demands celibacy for 6, 7 years with overwhelming hormones.

Honest question. When you show constant filth (and I do mean constant) from tv shows at prime time to advertisements everywhere. Then you push off marriage as late as possible... what do you think the results are? Especially today, where 7 and 8-year-olds can easily access porn. But have to wait until they are 18?

The answer is obvious. 50% of American kids today not knowing who their own dad is for starters. 65 million abortions in just the last 50 years is another result. This is literally 20% of our nation today.

There is nothing wrong with early marriage, especially when we consider the opposite of it.


Society today is all about destroying the family unit. I would think you, of all people, are aware of this.

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Take the last word, I will not reply because I have zero desire to keep this thread on top.

A few things.

- "the norm" does not make something morally right. While one should not discount everyone from the past as an unenlightened idiot, appealing to the past as entirely blameless and righteous is equally in error.

- yes, there were political marriages between royalty and such. I am acknowledging their existence, not the fact that it was moral. Im also not looking to make this an east v west thing whatsoever. A grown up marrying a child is disgusting regardless of his/her ethnic background.

- have you actually read the Bible?

If something is not written in it, "fan fiction" is an accurate description. There's actually plenty of distasteful things mentioned, so i have no need to cover up for things not even in there.

Mary's age is not mentioned.

Rebecca was old enough to go fetch water from a well by herself, reason, and speak in coherent sentences so no, she was not 3 years old by any means. Her age is not listed in the Bible though. Where did you get that she was 3 from? Was it some talmudic commentary that says its fine to r*pe 3 year old girls?

- as i even said in my post my response is not about the topic (as in, nothing to so with your prophet). I was reading the thread and responded to sugarprincess regarding her claim that wives are not objectified so therefore not p3dophilia. And yes, there's a difference between marriage and fornication, but it is also possible for a husband to objectify his wife. Nowhere did i mention either your prophet nor aisha.

- seems the point of this thread was that aisha was actually a teenager, not a kid. I haven't read the hadiths, so i have no way to form an informed opinion on the matter. But rather than slandering Islam, it seems people are defending it...

Also, none of my business, but a woman 15 yrs older than her husband is also odd. Look at macron.

- if everyone goes back far enough they might find that theyre a descendant of a product of r*pe. I know my family tree has it. Doesn't make it right.

- yes, society is broken.

Children shouldn't access p0rn. In fact i'll go further - p0rn should not exist, period. Filming fornication is not "speech".
(Perhaps someone who REALLY wants to know the truth can dig around and find the common thread behind the existence of p0rn and it being ruled "protected speech". Im not gonna bother posting it because too many gatekeepers on this forum - i guess here people research conspiracies until it points to the obvious and then it must be anything but. And no, before you get all paranoid, im not saying it was Muslims)

Society shouldnt be so oversexualized, it's wrong. But children marrying adults in order to prevent fornication is also wrong. Not going to budge from that position.

- yes, you're right im against feminism. But that's a strawman, there's other reasons people delay marriage besides feminism. Most 20 yr old men are not ready financially or socially to be fathers at that age, and many 20 yr old women are repulsed at the idea of marrying a man old enough to be their father.


But yeah, we're not going to agree on that, and thats not a Muslim v Christian thing either btw. I know there's plenty of Christian grown men, 40+, who believe they deserve a virginal teenage bride. Nope. Either theybe been fornicating left and right, and if so they deserve someone with their age and experience level, or if they have not been fornicating then i guess it is possible for people to live in celibacy for that long...

 

[Zakat]

A grown up marrying a child is disgusting regardless of his/her ethnic background.

That is only according to your limited perception of things.

For the record, everybody perceive things differently.

There is my way of seeing things and there is your way.

There are some 8 billion human beings alive right now on this planet. Some do not even know anything yet.

Perceptions differ and change, vastly, moreso over time lapses and eras, and God Is The Only True Judge.

 

[Zakat]

Was it some talmudic commentary that says its fine to r*pe 3 year old girls?

You were not even there so where is your evidence that any penetration ever took place?

So for example, if I happen to have to get married to a woman of 53, do I have to assume that some will imagine my lovemaking with her or something?

What if it was decided that the two spouses will not go there, so what then?

 

[Zakat]

But rather than slandering Islam, it seems people are defending it...

And rightfully so!

How stupid people can be presuming to know that this was such and that happened like that when in fact they are complete ignorants who only assume things and write walls and walls of text which give the impression of witnessing a donkey carrying books!

 

[Zakat]

Also, none of my business,

So why not, say, shut the hell up instead?

 

[Zakat]

- if everyone goes back far enough they might find that theyre a descendant of a product of r*pe. I know my family tree has it. Doesn't make it right.

 

[Zakat]

And no, before you get all paranoid, im not saying it was Muslims)

Why would we get paranoid? Seems you are very judgemental.

 

[Zakat]

Society shouldnt be so oversexualized, it's wrong.

 

[Zakat]

yes, you're right im against feminism. But that's a strawman,

And here I don't even know what a strawman is!

 

[Zakat]

Most 20 yr old men are not ready financially or socially to be fathers at that age, and many 20 yr old women are repulsed at the idea of marrying a man old enough to be their father.

Away with materialist views! Money does not buy happiness! It does not even exist!

Abu Dawood (2125) and al-Nasaa’i (3375) narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas that ‘Ali said:

“I married Faatimah (may Allaah be pleased with her) and said:

‘O Messenger of Allaah, let me go ahead with the marriage.’

He said: ‘Give her something.’

I said: ‘I do not have anything.’

He said: ‘Where is your Hutami shield?’

I said, ‘I have it with me.’

He said, ‘Give it to her.’”

Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Nasaa’i, 3160.

 

[Zakat]

But yeah, we're not going to agree on that, and thats not a Muslim v Christian

Are you even a follower of Jesus?

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

Rebecca was old enough to go fetch water from a well by herself, reason, and speak in coherent sentences so no, she was not 3 years old by any means. Her age is not listed in the Bible though. Where did you get that she was 3 from? Was it some talmudic commentary that says its fine to r*pe 3 year old girls?

Ok, i think i found where the claim of her being 3 came from

Notice how he wastes almost 3 minutes repeating the same facts over and over : sarah was 90 when she had Isaac, Sarah was 127 when she died, Isaac was 37 when his mother died.

Ok. Then without any evidence whatsoever he says Rebecca was born when Sarah died. The Bible does not say this!

This site mentions that she was probably between late teens to early 20s, which would have been marriage age back then.

How Old Was Rebekah (Rebecca) When Isaac Married Her?

Read the Biblical account of when Rebekah married Isaac to see what age she was. This post discovers the truth.

godsverse.org

Genesis 24:16 states that Rebekah is described as a young woman, implying that she was likely in her late teens or early twenties when she married Isaac.

Another clue that can help us estimate Rebekah’s age at the time of her marriage is found in Genesis 24:67, which states that Isaac loved Rebekah and was comforted after his mother’s death. This suggests that Rebekah was mature enough to provide emotional support to Isaac during a time of grief, indicating that she was likely in her late teens or early twenties.

Furthermore, cultural and historical context can also provide insights into Rebekah’s age. During biblical times, it was common for women to marry at a younger age compared to modern standards. In many ancient societies, girls were often married off in their mid-teens, and it was not uncommon for them to become wives and mothers at a young age. Considering this, it is plausible to assume that Rebekah may have been around 16 to 18 years old when she married Isaac.

This site mentions how Isaac was not a p3do, and it requires some twisting of scripture to make the claim she was 3

Was Rebekah a Child of Three Years When Isaac Married Her?

How old was Rebekah when married to Isaac? Was she a child of only three years as some claim? Was Isaac a p***phile?

www.simplybible.com

The tradition takes certain events as happening at the same time. These events are: the binding of Isaac on the altar in Moriah (Genesis 22:9); Abraham informed of Rebekah’s birth (Genesis 22:20-23); and Sarah’s death aged 127 (Genesis 23:1-2).

If these events did all happen at the same time, within just a few weeks, then two more necessary inferences could be added to the six facts above...

• 7. Since Isaac was 37 at his mother’s death, he was 37 when Rebekah was born.
• 8. Since Isaac was 40 when he married Rebekah, Rebekah would be 3 when the marriage took place (because 40-37=3)

But these last two inferences are spurious, because they are based not on what the scripture says in Genesis 22 and 23, but rather what is said in non-biblical tradition.

The argument at 7 and 8 above hinges entirely on the assertion that Rebekah was born at the same time as Sarah died. If Rebekah was born a decade or so before Sarah’s death, Rebekah would be a young woman of child-bearing age, not a child of 3.


Let us now look at Genesis 22 to see that nowhere does it suggest that Isaac’s binding, Rebekah’s birth, and Sarah’s death were concurrent.

• There is no indication of Isaac’s age at the time Abraham bound him on the altar (Genesis 22:9) except that Abraham called him a “lad” or “youth”.
• After the binding of Isaac "Abraham lived at Beersheba" (Genesis 22:19). For how long Abraham dwelt in Beersheba we don't know.
• It was "After these things" that Abraham was told that Milcah had born eight children to Nahor, Abraham’s brother (Genesis 22:20-22). How long it took for this news to reach Abraham, we don't know.
• The statement "Bethuel begat Rebekah" (Genesis 22:23) is not part of the news Abraham received. Abraham was told that Nahor begat Bethuel. Rebekah’s birth was a generation later. How old Bethuel was when Abraham heard of his birth, and how old he was when he begat Rebekah, we don't know.

People are generally not happy with “not told” and “don't know”. They want to fill in the gaps. In this case, they compress time and make three events concurrent to eliminate the gaps, and thereby create an anomaly: God arranging for a 40 year old man to wed a 3 year old girl.

When Abraham told his servant, under oath, to find a wife for Isaac, the stipulation was that "If the woman is not willing to follow you, you will be free from this my oath" (Genesis 24:8). In other words the marriage was to be at the woman’s consent.

Rebekah’s brother Laban and her mother also asked Rebekah to confirm her willingness. "And they said, 'We will call the girl and ask her to speak her wishes by her own mouth'. Then they called the girl and said, 'Will you go with this man?' And she said, 'I will go'" (Genesis 24:56-59).

Whilst this doesn't prove exactly how old Rebekah was, it does prove that she was at the age of consent.

Through the whole lovely story in Genesis 24, Rebekah is pictured as a young woman fully aware of what was happening, and quite willing to accept this life-changing opportunity.

As for the talmud allowing s*x with children, here it is

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

That is only according to your limited perception of things.
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For the record, everybody perceive things differently.

There is my way of seeing things and there is your way.

There are some 8 billion human beings alive right now on this planet. Some do not even know anything yet.

Perceptions differ and change, vastly, moreso over time lapses and eras, and God Is The Only True Judge.

Sure, people perceive things differently.
Normal people don't condone the r*pe children, and perverts do.
And yes, God wikl definitely judge us all.

You were not even there so where is your evidence that any penetration ever took place?

So for example, if I happen to have to get married to a woman of 53, do I have to assume that some will imagine my lovemaking with her or something?

What if it was decided that the two spouses will not go there, so what then?

And now youre defending the talmud?!
I already posted the evidence that the talmud allows this.

Yes, people will assume married people are engaging in marital acts.
Not imagining as in picturing it, just assuming that it occurs.

And rightfully so!

How stupid people can be presuming to know that this was such and that happened like that when in fact they are complete ignorants who only assume things and write walls and walls of text which give the impression of witnessing a donkey carrying books!
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You quoted my post out of context to make it look like i said people should slander it.
I didn't say that.
I said the intention of the thread was to defend it by saying she was older, but that some people consider that to be slander.
And i don't really care if you think im stupid or ignorant, but don't misrepresent what i post.

So why not, say, shut the hell up instead?

Because, unfortunately for you, my country still allows freedom of speech. And i will use while i still can.

Why would we get paranoid? Seems you are very judgemental.
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I said "you" referring to the poster i was quote replying to, not "you" referring to a group or "all of you".

Or are you a sockpuppet account of his?
Who is "we"?
Seems you're (and i mean YOU, individual) irritable and hostile.

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Agreed.

Away with materialist views! Money does not buy happiness! It does not even exist!

Its not materialistic to not want to get evicted from your one bedroom apartment for having more than 3 occupants. Or to not want the neighbors or landlord calling child protection because siblings of the opposite sex have to share a room.

I love how people assume "gold digger" when people in poverty have literally gotten their kids taken away because they were trying to live in a van to avoid homelessness or something. Children taken away are at risk of being trafficked. But sure, it's materialistic to prefer the father of my children is employed for more than minimum wage

Are you even a follower of Jesus?
View attachment 98519

Im a follower of Jesus Christ, my Lord and Savior.

 

[AspiringSoul]

The fake born-and-bred "Muslims" dont like it when the truth is posted, but a question arises... If these people have transformed actual Islam into a vehicle which will justify ANY abhorrent practice, even mass child trafficking/r*pe/murder... who/what ARE they actually praying to? Because based on A) the secular actions of born-and-bred "Muslims" and B) Their shirk (polytheism) drenched heresy masquerading as authentic Islam... they aint praying to the actual Creator.

be careful when generalising and calling every born/raised muslim A KAFIR (ie 'fake' meaning they arent real muslims, making them kafirs).

there are 3 levels in islam.
iman, islam and ihsan.
most muslims have iman, but our hearts are still corrupt. the state of islam is perfect submission to the will of God. Very few can get there. Ihsan on the otherhand is that Jesus Christ or ibn arabi type of spirituality, call it oneness of perception via the single eye, seeing the Oneness of God in all things.

That said, very very few muslims would ever be engaged in child trafficking, r*pe and murder. As for authentic islam vs fake islam, i shared alengthy hadith with you talking about our time ie the prophet said 'then stay away from ALL THOSE SECTS'.
most muslims were raised under the conditioning of sects, sub-sects, movements etc. however you certainly arent the one to talk about authentic islam. Afterall that same attitude is shared by every single islamic revivalist movement and there are many.

 

[AspiringSoul]

personally i think you're a loon who is over exaggerating this entire topic.
hadith are a post-modern thing, as in the majority of muslims in the past didnt grow up with hadith. as i explained before hadith are historical sources of information and it takes a person with knowledge to interpret them.
it goes without saying when baffoons get hold of hadith, they butcher them and twist their contexts to suit their NAFS.

on one hand the same hadith are teaching us about IHSAN ie unity of perception, the oneness of God in all things...and on the other you are claiming MOST muslims are not even real muslims because they believe in hadith

how about, fuck off?

 

[TempestOfTempo]

be careful when generalising and calling every born/raised muslim A KAFIR (ie 'fake' meaning they arent real muslims, making them kafirs).

there are 3 levels in islam.
iman, islam and ihsan.
most muslims have iman, but our hearts are still corrupt. the state of islam is perfect submission to the will of God. Very few can get there. Ihsan on the otherhand is that Jesus Christ or ibn arabi type of spirituality, call it oneness of perception via the single eye, seeing the Oneness of God in all things.

That said, very very few muslims would ever be engaged in child trafficking, r*pe and murder. As for authentic islam vs fake islam, i shared alengthy hadith with you talking about our time ie the prophet said 'then stay away from ALL THOSE SECTS'.
most muslims were raised under the conditioning of sects, sub-sects, movements etc. however you certainly arent the one to talk about authentic islam. Afterall that same attitude is shared by every single islamic revivalist movement and there are many.

You and the rest of your born-and-bred brethren should be the parties treading carefully, as these people and their institutions are drenched in shirk. There is Islam the religion (which Muslims are supposed to follow) which is essentially unrecognizable at this point thanks to deviations/innovations from born-and-bred "Muslims"... and there is the state of Islam, which ANYONE can find. Humans dont need the religion of Islam to attain a state of Islam... the deen of Islam is supposed to provide the straightest path and inside track to Islam as a state, but its not required to attain a state of Islam.

"That said, very very few muslims would ever be engaged in child trafficking, r*pe and murder."
This is just a complete falsehood. Its an epidemic, and it also leads to things like grooming gangs.

"however you certainly arent the one to talk about authentic islam."
Why not? What are you people so afraid of?

 

[TempestOfTempo]

personally i think you're a loon who is over exaggerating this entire topic.
hadith are a post-modern thing, as in the majority of muslims in the past didnt grow up with hadith. as i explained before hadith are historical sources of information and it takes a person with knowledge to interpret them.
it goes without saying when baffoons get hold of hadith, they butcher them and twist their contexts to suit their NAFS.

on one hand the same hadith are teaching us about IHSAN ie unity of perception, the oneness of God in all things...and on the other you are claiming MOST muslims are not even real muslims because they believe in hadith

how about, fuck off?

"Personally, Im going to accuse you of being crazy because I want to minimize the epidemic of child trafficking/r*pe/murder committed by Muslim adults. Its going on in EVERY Muslim nation and Muslims are engaging in the practice in EVERY nation they immigrate to, but my need to belong and keep within the fold is too strong... so Im going to contend a bunch of nonsense like "hadith are a post-modern thing, as in the majority of muslims in the past didnt grow up with hadith."

I aint claim they aint Muslims because they believe in hadeeth, I noted their promotion of heretical hadeeth over Quran.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

I will say this once more.

What a total lack of modesty and respect to even want to know about what goes on between two people, let alone judge their relationship.

I wonder when humans started playing 'God'. Judgement is His, Alone.

Even in Islam, if somebody is suspected of fornication, there needs to be AT LEAST FOUR WITNESSES to the action of the thread going into the needle's hole
View attachment 98496
for judgement to take place, and that too, so much the better for people to pay for their sins here rather than in the afterlife!

Normal human beings are going to judge "relationships" between grown adults and children not even aged into their teens. And they will judge them harshly.
"I wonder when humans started playing 'God'. Judgement is His, Alone."
Translated:
"You guys are trying to play GOD by attempting to regulate on us committing a tsunami of child trafficking/r*pe/murder based off of our heretical nonsense. You are discriminating against our right to r*pe kids!"