Differences between the Bible and Islam

[Flarepath]

Interesting mentality. So you think people should leech off their own government?

The Brit govt allow unlimited scroungers into the country to take our jobs, houses, welfare, hospital beds etc, so it's only right that the govt should pay it's own people compensation..

 

[Daze]

The Brit govt allow unlimited scroungers into the country to take our jobs, houses, welfare, hospital beds etc, so it's only right that the govt should pay it's own people compensation..

Spoken like someone who forgets all of us come from Adam and Eve.

Hate your neighbors if you wish Tidal. But be advised if you take nationalism to the grave, odds are high you'll end up in hell.

All these "scroungers" are also God's creation, and it's pretty arrogant to think you are better than them. While you literally know nothing about them other than what your tv tells you.

 

[Flarepath]

..Christians bringing terror like bombing abortion clinics, isn't really debated...

Christians are certainly anti-abortion, but the few hothead bombers among them certainly don't have the right to call themselves christians..
PS- When my mother became preggers with me out of wedlock many years ago, it was such a heinous social 'crime' in those days that many women had abortions to cover up their shame, and their relatives and friends would have said "Oh well, it was all for the best" and wouldn't have minded.
But as I was the fetus in question, I might have minded..

 

[Flarepath]

The Brit govt allow unlimited scroungers into the country to take our jobs, houses, welfare, hospital beds etc, so it's only right that the govt should pay it's own people compensation..

Spoken like someone who forgets all of us come from Adam and Eve...

Last I heard, most illegal heathen scroungers come from Africa, it's emptying so fast it must be running on fumes by now..-


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Even Jesus said not to take bread from our kid's mouths and give it to the ungrateful heathens-
"It is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs....do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces" (Matt 15:26,Matt 7:6)

 

[Flarepath]

..it's pretty arrogant to think you are better than them.

At least I can speak English..


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This "doctor" probably studied at a witch doctors hut in the jungle..

 

[Daze]

Last I heard, most illegal heathen scroungers come from Africa, it's emptying so fast it must be running on fumes by now..-

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Even Jesus said not to take bread from our kid's mouths and give it to the ungrateful heathens-
"It is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs....do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces" (Matt 15:26,Matt 7:6)

Are Africans not the children of Adam and Eve?

Out of curiosity...

Do you consider the KKK a Christian outfit?
After all, the grand master is a self-proclaimed Christian.

 

[Flarepath]

Are Africans not the children of Adam and Eve?
Out of curiosity...
Do you consider the KKK a Christian outfit? After all, the grand master is a self-proclaimed Christian.

1- Only TRUE Christians are God's children..-
"What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?..Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord, I will be a Father to you, and you shall be my sons and daughters" (2 Cor 6:14-18 )

2- ONLY GOD can judge whether any of us is a true Christian, even the great Paul said not to count our chickens before they're hatched-
"My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time" (1 Cor 4:3)

 

[Daze]

1- Only TRUE Christians are God's children..-
"What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?..Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord, I will be a Father to you, and you shall be my sons and daughters" (2 Cor 6:14-18 )

2- ONLY GOD can judge whether any of us is a true Christian, even the great Paul said not to count our chickens before they're hatched-
"My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time" (1 Cor 4:3)

You lost me. So are you saying African Christians are not Christian?



Like I said Tidal, the only thing you know about these people is what your tv tells you.


Are you going to answer my original question? Is the KKK a Christian movement?

 

[Flarepath]

You lost me. So are you saying African Christians are not Christian?

View attachment 95890

Like I said Tidal, the only thing you know about these people is what your tv tells you.
Are you going to answer my original question? Is the KKK a Christian movement?

Like I've said before, any Tom Dick Harry can call themselves christians, but it's up to God to decide if they really are, that's why it's called 'Judgement Day'..

 

[phipps]

Last I heard, most illegal heathen scroungers come from Africa, it's emptying so fast it must be running on fumes by now..-

View attachment 95880
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Even Jesus said not to take bread from our kid's mouths and give it to the ungrateful heathens-
"It is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs....do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces" (Matt 15:26,Matt 7:6)

Are you suggesting that Africans are dogs and swine? You have said derogatory things about Africans before as Tidal too. Do you think its okay to speak about anyone like that African or not especially as a Christian?

And you've misquoted scripture to mean something that it doesn't.

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

What Jesus said about turning the other cheek just isn’t conducive to real life where we face danger all the time. Christians in the Bible bet of America are armed and I’m sure they’re ready to defend themselves. I have yet to see a living example of someone who professes to follow Jesus yet turns the other cheek. So what’s the point of him saying these things if people don’t follow?

I’m sorry it is stupid and ridiculous to offer your cloak to someone who steals your coat.

A few things
- turning the other cheek is the ideal. Do we meet the ideal? Mostly no.
Some of us may have glimpsed for a moment "the kingdom of heaven" when, having been in a situation which would have resulted in retaliation, the choice to turn the other cheek was taken. It is an indescribable, but fleeting, feeling.
However, this is a choice, not something under duress. Not giving over our coat out of fear for our life, but out of pure love. No coercion whatsoever.

But like i said in my previous reply, even amongst other Christians this is a difficult subject. So, given the limitations of online writer language, i don't expect what i said to make sense...

- people in the Bible belt, or anywhere for that matter, are not an example of what the Bible says. Some of these states are also the most uncharitable towards their neighbors, for example. There is a stong calvinistic undercurrent, that those who are less fortunate are somehow hated by God and their poverty is somehow proof of this, it's messed up . The issue is complex, but ultimately judging the Bible by what people (who are often not going by the Bible, but by what their pastors say) do is unfair.

- as for why teach something if no one follows it, the Bible is full of teachings that people ignore. People steal, murder, commit adultery and other forms of immorality, etc. Just because people are wiked does not mean the Bible is wrong for calling out sin and teaching a different way.

What do you mean Christians have been martyred? I get that it’s a tricky subject but i genuinely have no idea what you’re referring to

In Christianity, a martyr is a person who has been killed for professing their faith in Jesus Christ, or for refusing to renounce Him. The word "martyr" does not refer to every murdered Christian, but Christians which are killed specifically because of their faith.

Christians have been martyred since during biblical times. This has continued thoughout the history of Christianity

The Bible tells us that during the endtimes many will be martyred

Revelation 6
9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled



Ch 13 of the book of Revelation, the chapter that discusses the mark of the beast, has this to say.

7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

I’m pretty sure I’ve stated multiple times that God is the sole speaker in the Quran. There is no one else, unless God is quoting what people have said. He is the sole narrator.

I genuinely don’t mean this in a patronising or rude way but you’re asking some really random basic questions. You seem to have a lot of questions so why don’t you just read The Quran yourself?

I’m sure English is your first language Toxic. Have you not heard of people of upper class or aristocracy referring to themselves as ‘we’? The late Queen Elizabeth II was once quoted as saying ‘we are not amused’. It’s called a ‘royal’ or majestic plural. In fact, Elohim is considered a plural reference to God to emphasise his grandeur.

Arabic is a gendered language so many times you’ll find God being referred to as He as well. It depends on the context and what’s been referenced. For instance, If it’s an emphasis on His attributes or power/mercy etc he might use We to highlight his capabilities.

Yes, ive read some of the chapters while researching for this thread, so that's why my question came up in the first place...

As an american i had genuinely never heard of this "royal we" thing. I find it quite bizarre to say the least, but yeah, apparently it's a thing.

As for he Bible verses in which God says "us", Christians say that is a proof of the existence of Jesus back when God was creating mankind

 

[phipps]

As for he Bible verses in which God says "us", Christians say that is a proof of the existence of Jesus back when God was creating mankind

Can I add that John 1 cements the fact that Jesus is God and did create the world. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. ... And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth" (John 1:1-4, 14).

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

@ToxicFemininitySucks
Why are you interested in the details of the prophet stories? We’ve gone through a few and it’s clear that the accounts of the Bible are different to the Quran. What else were you hoping to discover? Why not just cut to the chase and examine the different accounts of Jesus? That would seem more befitting as you’ve stated that you don’t regard the prophets highly as you only care about Jesus.

Im interested because of the claim that Christians and Muslims have the same prophets.

If characters were from different places, behaved differently, had a different backstory and other differences, then it would follow that we do NOT have the same prophets...

So i am genuinely curious just how different these stories are. As a Christian, this is not something which i had looked into before.

And yes, i hope to get into the differences between Jesus the son of God and Isa the Islamic prophet.

 

[90sWereBetter]

At least I can speak English..

View attachment 95882

Who are the British to tell people to speak English properly? You ask them for fish and chips and they bring you french fries or something.

 

[DesertRose]

Im interested because of the claim that Christians and Muslims have the same prophets.

If characters were from different places, behaved differently, had a different backstory and other differences, then it would follow that we do NOT have the same prophets...

So i am genuinely curious just how different these stories are. As a Christian, this is not something which i had looked into before.

And yes, i hope to get into the differences between Jesus the son of God and Isa the Islamic prophet.

Greetings. These are worthy questions.
I pray the Creator guides you to the truth no matter who it is for or against.
The Torah in our opinion is distorted.
The stories about the prophets in it make it difficult for anyone to see them as role models.

"Their belief in the soundness of the distorted Torah that they have in front of them today, which contains insults against God, describing Him as having shortcomings, and insults against the Prophets and Messengers, saying things that one can hardly dare utter, but we mention them in order to highlight the abhorrent nature of the disbelief that they follow. They describe God as weeping with regret for the Flood which drowned the people of Noah, until His eyes became sore, and the angels came to visit Him – exalted be He far above that.

They describe Lot (peace be upon him) as committing incest with his two daughters, and Noah (peace be upon him) as drinking wine until he became drunk and his `awrah (private parts) was exposed. There are even more foolish stories than that. "

Differences between Christianity and Islam - Islam Question & Answer

Muslims believe that there is only One God and that Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) is His Messenger. They also believe that Jesus was a human being with no divine qualities.Christians, on the other hand, believe in the divinity of Jesus as the Son of God and the second person...

islamqa.info

Here is a resource that has their stories without the distortions.

Stories of the Prophets - SunnahOnline.com

A list of the stories of the Prophets of Allah available on SunnahOnline.com.

sunnahonline.com

Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW7-5eCq8IyTA5DH3g3LA1ruSZZa7_VX6

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

Greetings. These are worthy questions.
I pray the Creator guides you to the truth no matter who it is for or against.
The Torah in our opinion is distorted.
The stories about the prophets in it make it difficult for anyone to see them as role models.

"Their belief in the soundness of the distorted Torah that they have in front of them today, which contains insults against God, describing Him as having shortcomings, and insults against the Prophets and Messengers, saying things that one can hardly dare utter, but we mention them in order to highlight the abhorrent nature of the disbelief that they follow. They describe God as weeping with regret for the Flood which drowned the people of Noah, until His eyes became sore, and the angels came to visit Him – exalted be He far above that.

They describe Lot (peace be upon him) as committing incest with his two daughters, and Noah (peace be upon him) as drinking wine until he became drunk and his `awrah (private parts) was exposed. There are even more foolish stories than that. "

Differences between Christianity and Islam - Islam Question & Answer

Muslims believe that there is only One God and that Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) is His Messenger. They also believe that Jesus was a human being with no divine qualities.Christians, on the other hand, believe in the divinity of Jesus as the Son of God and the second person...

islamqa.info

Here is a resource that has their stories without the distortions.

Stories of the Prophets - SunnahOnline.com

A list of the stories of the Prophets of Allah available on SunnahOnline.com.

sunnahonline.com

Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW7-5eCq8IyTA5DH3g3LA1ruSZZa7_VX6

Yes, we've been discussing the differences throughout this thread. The story if Lot earlier, and Noah currently.

I understand that Islam sees these men as prophets, and as such they are to be good role models. Whereas the Bible sees them as men who may have their flaws just like everyone else, and sinful deeds do not go unpunished.

Thank you for the links, i will take a look.

 

[DesertRose]

Whereas the Bible sees them as men who may have their flaws just like everyone else, and sinful deeds do not go unpunished.

What they write about some of them are major sins, not flaws. Take Care.

 

[Haich]

Who are the British to tell people to speak English properly? You ask them for fish and chips and they bring you french fries or something.

I just can’t forgive the fact you guys call biscuits bread. Biscuits and gravy? If you said that here people would look at you crazy.

 

[elsbet's cat ^. .^]

I have to say, out of everything you wrote what really boggled me is ‘I actually respect people who have blind faith’. Why do you feel blind faith is worthy of emulating? Would you blindly follow someone who told you to eat an apple and you’ll gain riches? Blind faith is what happens when people don’t think beyond what’s being presented to them and don’t really consider the source of what’s being said but also the reliability of the source. There are Christians on this forum who have openly admitted support for Israel despite their brethren dying every day. That’s blind faith, blindly believing and following something without question.

Why do Christians study the Bible alone? Like what is the authority you use to make sense of context and meaning. For instance, when I’m stuck on a verse or chapter, I look at tafsir (scholarly commentaries with evidence backing up their claims). That’s why Muslims don’t disagree with matters of Quran, it’s clear and the studies that have been done on it are unanimous in their conclusions. It seems with Christianity anyway that everyone just follows what they think rather than what’s closer to the truth or has been proven. Your views aren’t definitively mainstream…I know Christians in real life that would contest a lot of what you say. Where’s the consensus on nuanced issues and who or what is the authority that settles this?

Blind Faith
THE LONGER VERSION

Spoiler

Thomas
One of the 12 Disciples who followed Jesus from the beginning. He wasn’t with the other disciples when Jesus came back from the dead, so when they told him - “We have seen the Lord.”

Thomas said:​

“Unless I see in his hands the mark of​

the nails, and place my finger into the​

mark of the nails, and place my hand​

into his side, I will never believe.”​

Soo... when Jesus came to see the disciples again, He said to Thomas-

“Put your finger here, and see my hands;​

and put out your hand, and place it in my​

side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.”​

​

Thomas answered him, “My Lord and​

my God!”​

​

Jesus said to him, “Have you believed​

because you have seen me? Blessed​

are those who have not seen and yet​

have believed.”​

. . .

Commentary
In my experience, most of us here use exegesis (commentary) regularly. I post excerpts with links from the concordance, fairly often; I think we all do. I'm not saying there is a consensus-- it would be foolish to have blind faith in another person's interpretation, exclusively -- and dangerous.

That's how false prophets work their magic.

` ° * • . . .☆​

So God breathed the words into Matthew? You’re going to have to break that down for me sorry.

The definition is linked in my previous reply, and I've posted it again below. What part are you struggling with?

2315 | θεόπνευστος
theopneustos
God-breathed

If it’s advisory, are you saying then it is ok to defend yourself and NOT turn the other cheek?

I said it is not an advisory, but an illustration of a larger principle at work-- then I referred you back to @ToxicFemininitySucks post on martyrdom, etc.

Do all Christians disregard Lot as a prophet? What purpose did he serve then, why was he trying to rectify the wrongs of the people of Sodom? Wasn’t that out of his remit?

There's no reason to consider Lot as a prophet.
As for the rest...

I don’t see how you believing in Jesus Christ is relevant to monotheism before Jesus... You can’t expect people to take your scripture seriously if we just look at everything post Jesus.

What have you looked at, exactly?

Idk where someone would even begin, in order to consolidate their years of study + personal experience (etc.), into one, comprehensive post you would be able understand.

.. and there is a huge amount of time from Adam to Jesus which you seem to have just written of as ‘oh well, not my problem’ That’s just woefully ignorant.

Especially when this is how you perceive years of study-- which is the answer you were given. Can you pinpoint anything in particular, or are you starting from scratch and just generalizing?

If you really want to have some fun, start reading the Bible with a Concordance. Then maybe you'll have some insight to work with, next time.

Spoiler: Links

Genesis 1
Hebrew Concordance
Septuagint (LXX Greek)
Genesis 1
OT Greek Concordance LXX

The God you proclaim to believe in is wise...
It simply doesn’t make sense for the Old Testament or The Bible to completely decimate and tarnish the characters of men God chose.

Like I said, it makes The Creator look sloppy and unable to make good decisions, if the men he chose are... killing people to hide their adulterous ways.

Why... because people are so noble by nature?

The rest has been covered, already-- but to reiterate for those who may be interested in the biblical perspective: Prophets weren't chosen for their Good Deeds. Some were petulant (Jonah), some were horrified at the prospect (Moses - O my Lord... please send someone else!).

Paul thought persecution + murder was the best way to deal with Christians.

'... when the blood of Stephen your witness​

was being shed, I myself was standing by ​

approving and watching over the garments​

of those who killed him.' Acts 22:20​

And David.
You'll have to read about him in context -- Psalms included. He was wildly flawed, as we all are. And yet... God called him a man after His own heart, which is a very compelling statement. Tbh, the entirety of David's relationship with God is compelling.

God was furious with David about the census. This time, he let him choose which punishment he would prefer, and gave him three options. David chose the blow delivered by God, Himself:

“I am in great distress.
Let me fall into the hand of the LORD,
for his mercy is very great, but do not
let me fall into the hand of man.”
1 Chronicles 21

I bet Paul's about-face really got people's attention-- far more than the dubious acts of the holy-rolling Pharisees (aka ye generation of vipers!), who were more concerned with keeping up appearances than the will of God.

And it is all consistent: God’s power shows itself most effectively in our weaknesses. But that's what it's all about--> the glory of God; not man.
2 Cor. 12:9
Romans 5:5 (5:1-11)