Differences between the Bible and Islam

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

I say
God Is Bereft of such shame.

But also, as in respectful old english way of speaking, for after Jesus's time, people no longer so,
View attachment 95126

I dont understand...

 

[Seekeroftruth55]

Me neither, to be honest.
Sorry, @Zakat if we don't get it

 

[Zakat]

I dont understand...

Like father, like son, we normally say.

Well, the son is not like the father, considering the title Christians use for Jesus, physically-speaking that is.

Also, to avoid joining partners to God, The One Unequalled, Islam Perfects religion and the human's relationship with God by avoiding such ambiguous notions.

Spiritual image unequals physical image.

 

[Daze]

- yes now im wondering did God plant the thoughts in Adam's mind or would that have violated his free willl.

So if I teach you basic Algebra, I'm violating your free will?

- i already covered the issue of Lot in the other thread. His daughters conspired to get him drunk and r*ped him, he was not complicit, and the Bible spells out the consequences - their offspring became the forefathers of the ammonites and moabites and they caused trouble for the Israelites.

It's not just prophet Lot. It's all the prophets, like David is depicted as a murderer because he wanted to commit adultery with Bathsheba.
Idk why you can't understand the fear of God was next level amongst the prophets and never would they have done such evil.

I know the prophet Muhammad (saw) made alcohol forbidden. I also know, concerning the big picture, he brought nothing new.
All prophets brought essentially the exact same message. So I have to question prophets drinking alcohol, let alone getting drunk.

Also, the Law hadn't been given to Moses yet, so it wasn't expressly forbidden yet. And early on there was incest by necessity. I will get there in another post, but the source im using for Islam says Cain and Abel married each other's twin sisters. Is this true?

Yes, the children of Adam married one another. Humanity had to start somewhere. How long it lasted idk, but I think we can both be certain it was condemned long before mankind even got close to 100,000 in number.

Seeing Moses and his people weren't the first on earth, we can't say that amongst that generation, no one ever heard incest was bad.

What is your opinion on incest? Honestly, why do you think the majority of mankind sees it as evil?
Consider p***philia. The vast majority of mankind will tell you this is evil.
Do you not think such natural reactions to these topics are something inspired by God himself?

I know you don't want to admit the Bible has errors. But I can't see God's chosen to commit the most evil acts either.

What is the first commandment?
What does the Bible depict prophet Solomon doing? Worshiping idols.

It was not Solomon who disbelieved (2:102 Quran)

 

[Daze]

God Is Bereft of such shame.

+1

Absolutely, people don't realize how evil this is.

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

So if I teach you basic Algebra, I'm violating your free will?



It's not just prophet Lot. It's all the prophets, like David is depicted as a murderer because he wanted to commit adultery with Bathsheba.
Idk why you can't understand the fear of God was next level amongst the prophets and never would they have done such evil.

I know the prophet Muhammad (saw) made alcohol forbidden. I also know, concerning the big picture, he brought nothing new.
All prophets brought essentially the exact same message. So I have to question prophets drinking alcohol, let alone getting drunk.




Yes, the children of Adam married one another. Humanity had to start somewhere. How long it lasted idk, but I think we can both be certain it was condemned long before mankind even got close to 100,000 in number.

Seeing Moses and his people weren't the first on earth, we can't say that amongst that generation, no one ever heard incest was bad.

What is your opinion on incest? Honestly, why do you think the majority of mankind sees it as evil?
Consider p***philia. The vast majority of mankind will tell you this is evil.
Do you not think such natural reactions to these topics are something inspired by God himself?

I know you don't want to admit the Bible has errors. But I can't see God's chosen to commit the most evil acts either.

What is the first commandment?
What does the Bible depict prophet Solomon doing? Worshiping idols.

It was not Solomon who disbelieved (2:102 Quran)

- no, unless i specifically said i refuse to be taught algebra... then it would be

- well, either David's son was killed as punishment for his adultery, or because God just randomly likes to bully people... i know the first option makes more sense, considering our JUST and loving God. A bad act incurred a punishment. No bad act, then it isn't punishment, just randomness

- i wasn't there (obviously) so i don't know if he regularly drank alcohol. All i know is the Bible days his daughters were the ones to get their father drunk.

- well, Abraham married his half sister Sarah, and Jacon married two sisters, both of which were later prohibited by the Law, so obviously before the Law acts that were illicit were not imputed to them.

- obviously i find both incest and p3dophilia reprehensible. But like you said, earlier on to continue the species there was incest. It's completely possible that Lot's daughters genuinely believed there were no other people around, given the destruction of their city.

- like i said earlier, the Bible shows the consequences. Either different individuals or groups were punished for their previous wrongdoing, or God just picks on people for the fun of it.

I believe in a righteous and just God. Not a temperamental bully.

If Solomin did not commit idolatry then WHY was the kingdom divided after his reign?

 

[Haich]

Islam says Cain and Abel married each other's twin sisters. Is this true?

Yes because there were no other people to populate the earth, this was an exceptional case.

 

[Haich]

Free will doesn’t mean you automatically understand and have the capacity to make great choices. I don’t see how God teaching Adam the names of things would violate his freewill. Maybe we have a different understanding of freewill.

Adam had to have been taught by God, the names of everything otherwise it implies he had knowledge equal to God. This wouldn’t be a plausible scenario as he had just been created and God doesn’t mention Adam was created with knowledge.

 

[Haich]

- no, unless i specifically said i refuse to be taught algebra... then it would be

- well, either David's son was killed as punishment for his adultery, or because God just randomly likes to bully people... i know the first option makes more sense, considering our JUST and loving God. A bad act incurred a punishment. No bad act, then it isn't punishment, just randomness

- i wasn't there (obviously) so i don't know if he regularly drank alcohol. All i know is the Bible days his daughters were the ones to get their father drunk.

- well, Abraham married his half sister Sarah, and Jacon married two sisters, both of which were later prohibited by the Law, so obviously before the Law acts that were illicit were not imputed to them.

- obviously i find both incest and p3dophilia reprehensible. But like you said, earlier on to continue the species there was incest. It's completely possible that Lot's daughters genuinely believed there were no other people around, given the destruction of their city.

- like i said earlier, the Bible shows the consequences. Either different individuals or groups were punished for their previous wrongdoing, or God just picks on people for the fun of it.

I believe in a righteous and just God. Not a temperamental bully.

If Solomin did not commit idolatry then WHY was the kingdom divided after his reign?

who wrote the accounts of the prophets in the Bible?

 

[Seekeroftruth55]

I believe in a righteous and just God. Not a temperamental bully

This, exactly. This is how God really is

 

[Daze]

I believe in a righteous and just God. Not a temperamental bully.

No, you believe in a book you have convinced yourself to be infallible.

"How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,”
when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" (Jeremiah 8:8)



A book where 2 "twins" are completely different.

Forget 2000 years past. To this day, they still make edits to the Bible. Such as recently replacing Yahweh with Lord because it's blasphemous to say God's name according to the Jews.

I don't want to argue with you. I've told you before, you're probably the best trinitarian here.
At least with being representative of what Jesus brought. Compare yourself with Seeker, who has been trying to draw me and Orwell into a fight for the past 24 hours. So much for loving thy neighbor with that one.


It is God who guides, not me. I can show you every proof under and above the sun. But until God wills it, none of it will penetrate the heart.

Peace.

 

[Flarepath]

..I think it sounds better saying Jesus is the son of God, there's so much purity to that

Be careful, because If you don't think Jesus is the Son of God you'll be a loser..
"Who is it that beats the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God" (1 John 5:5)

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

Free will doesn’t mean you automatically understand and have the capacity to make great choices. I don’t see how God teaching Adam the names of things would violate his freewill. Maybe we have a different understanding of freewill.

Adam had to have been taught by God, the names of everything otherwise it implies he had knowledge equal to God. This wouldn’t be a plausible scenario as he had just been created and God doesn’t mention Adam was created with knowledge.

The way i read it and understand it, the very utterances Adam made did not have a meaning beforehand.

As in, it's not that he knew what the "correct" name was for something, but rather the something had not been named previously, so the sound or series of sounds that Adam made in regard to that creature became it's name.

In Genesis 1, before Adam was created, some names of animals (like whales) are listed. But we have to keep in mind that by the time scripture was revealed to Moses and writen it was long after the time period of Genesis 1.

BUT God created Adam to think, so it could be said the source if all his thoughts is God.

who wrote the accounts of the prophets in the Bible?

Different prophets wrote different ones. Some of the books claim authorship explicitly.

The first five books (the Torah) are said to have been written by Moses himself, with later additions at the very end of Deuteronomy (the 5th book) after Moses'death Joshua.

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

Yes because there were no other people to populate the earth, this was an exceptional case.

Seeing as Lot's daughters had just seen everyone and everything except their father killed, it is plausible they believed they were the only humans around. It was an exceptional case.


Here is the entire account of Lot and his daughters.

Genesis 19

24Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; 25And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.


26But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.

27And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the LORD: 28And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.

29And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt.


30And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters. 31And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth: 32Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

33And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. 34And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

35And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. 36Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father. 37And the firstborn bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day. 38And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

No, you believe in a book you have convinced yourself to be infallible.

"How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,”
when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" (Jeremiah 8:8)



A book where 2 "twins" are completely different.

Forget 2000 years past. To this day, they still make edits to the Bible. Such as recently replacing Yahweh with Lord because it's blasphemous to say God's name according to the Jews.

I don't want to argue with you. I've told you before, you're probably the best trinitarian here.
At least with being representative of what Jesus brought. Compare yourself with Seeker, who has been trying to draw me and Orwell into a fight for the past 24 hours. So much for loving thy neighbor with that one.


It is God who guides, not me. I can show you every proof under and above the sun. But until God wills it, none of it will penetrate the heart.

Peace.

Yes, i believe God's word is infallible.

There are Christians who don't, but im not here to judge their faith.

The Bible says "blessed are those who believe without seeing", so those who have even more blind faith than i are more blessed.


The issue of multiple Bible translations keeps getting brought up. For the record, i am King James Onlyist, and i do cross reference with the Greek. Not because i believe that it necessarily has advanced revelation - although at times a good case can be made in favor if that argument - but because many/most? of the edits in the new versions have been:

- done for profit/copyrights. The KJV doesnt have a copyright.
- done for ecumenical/one world religion purposes
- based on sketchy manuscripts which were possibly forgeries
- which were translated by occultists who didn't even believe in the Bible
- and simply, in todays corrupt and perverted society, the idea that anyone could be completely immune to the filth and produce something pure is unlikely. Think of society as a lake and people as the fish - in a polluted lake the fish inevitably get polluted. 500 years ago the lake was much less polluted...


Also, im not here to compare myself with another Christian, that would be a very unChristian thing to do...

Please no personal drama on the thread.

 

[phipps]

@ToxicFemininitySucks

- well, Abraham married his half sister Sarah, and Jacob married two sisters, both of which were later prohibited by the Law, so obviously before the Law acts that were illicit were not imputed to them.

The law, as in the ten commandment law existed before God wrote it on stone on Mt Sinai and gave it to Moses and all humanity who choose to submit to Him. We know this because the Bible tells us, "sin is the transgression of the law” (1 John 3:4). There was sin before Sinai and its the reason the world is in the state its in. The book of Genesis tells us of the fall of Adam and Eve and the first murder takes place in chapter 4 when Cain kills Abel. Cain also knew he was guilty of murdering his brother. Plus God would not have destroyed this earth with a flood or destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for their evil deeds if no law existed before Sinai. So where sin is found its because the law has been implemented so that sin can clearly be seen. The law of God shows us sin like a mirror.

As for incest, one of the reasons it was forbidden during Moses' time, was because of the of the risk of genetic weakness and health complications with the offspring (Deuteronomy 27:22). The first generations on this earth since Adam had almost perfect health. There are many reasons for that including, the time they lived in, the weather, they had a superior diet to ours (they did not eat meat until after the flood), plus the fruit, seeds and plants they ate were not tampered with and provided them with nutrients that we can only dream of nowadays since almost all the fruit and plants we eat are hybridized. Genetically they obviously were superior. It is well known that after the flood human genes have been deteriorating with each generation. So marrying a sister or cousin would not result in the genetic weaknesses and complications that are a huge risk today.

Another reason incest (they didn't think of it as incest nor was it a disgusting thing to them as it today) was allowed before Moses' time was because God did not want His people mixing with the heathen. We are told in the Bible, "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty” (2 Corinthians 6:14-18). God does not want His people marrying unconverted or unbelieving people. He knows those kind of relationships will have problems and His people will mainly end up compromising and being influenced by the unconverted or believing people.

As you know the Bible is filled with stories of believing people mingling and/or marrying unbelievers and we read about the the disasters that followed as a result.

 

[Flarepath]

..The issue of multiple Bible translations keeps getting brought up..

Yeah, one minute nonchristians are saying the Bible has been re-written and tidied up over the centuries to make it look good, then the next minute they're saying it's still full of contradictions; I wish they'd make up their minds..

 

[Infinityloop]

Like father, like son, we normally say.

Well, the son is not like the father, considering the title Christians use for Jesus, physically-speaking that is.

Also, to avoid joining partners to God, The One Unequalled, Islam Perfects religion and the human's relationship with God by avoiding such ambiguous notions.

Spiritual image unequals physical image.

The funny thing is that in Christian apologetics they say things like "who are you to tell God what God can't do?" (while doing the same, with their theology constructed upon Greek philosophy rather than revelation).

One apologetic is to say that God is too distant and therefore God needed to 'send his son' etc so that we can be closer to God.
Pagans say practically the same thing, that the ultimate principle is too abstract and distant, or too uninterested in us, that it procreated or had sons, and those sons had sons, etc and that the lower tiers of deities in their pantheons are the ones that humans are able to have a relationship with (the deities of elements, celestial cycles etc).
They often make this argument against us too "the God of Islam is too distant, how can you love it?" (etc)

Another apologetic is they make out a big thing about Islam vehemently rejecting the trinity, yet so many of these people are Protestants who deny the literal presence of Jesus in the eucharist (taking it all as metaphor) and deny that Mary is the "mother of God" (even though the implication is very obvious if Jesus was God), which for Catholics and Orthodox Christians is effectively the same as denying the Trinity. And it is true that the Trinity is inseparable from the literal presence in the Eucharist and the Motherhood of Mary.
Protestants have less of an argument in this matter than Catholics and Orthodox Christians, because they do not commit to their position, whereas Catholics and Orthodox Christians do.
Catholics and Orthodox Christians can argue that "Islam is false because Islam rejects the Eucharist, Mary as Mother of God and the Trinity". Whereas Protestants effectively do the same while claiming it against Islam, despite their claim to believe in the Trinity.

Another thing in apologetics is that Jesus is taken to be the "Son of God" and they clamp down on this, despite the term "Son of God" and "Sons of God" being used variously in the Old Testament. Their argument is that the term "Son of God" applies literally and singularly for Jesus in contrast to Old Testament uses for other figures being merely metaphorical titles, while also berating Muslims for taking the term "Son of God" apparently too literally; rendering the term "Son of God" meaningless.

 

[Flarepath]

..One apologetic is to say that God is too distant and therefore God needed to 'send his son' etc so that we can be closer to God...

Yup..
Jesus said "God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24)
So God had to use fleshly human prophets and Jesus as go-betweens to pass on messages to the human race-
"God spoke in times past by the prophets, but has in these last days spoken to us by his Son" (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Jesus said - "I say nothing of my own accord, I only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)

 

[phipps]

@ToxicFemininitySucks

I don't know what you've posted about Lot and his daughters on the other thread, so forgive me if I'm being repetitive. Its important we understand that what Lot's daughters did was wrong. They sinned by what they did to their father. While God at the time allowed brothers and sisters or cousins to marry, daughters never married or slept with their fathers. That was considered incest in those days too. Plus it was not consensual as Lot was drunk as you mentioned.

What they did was partly their father's fault for choosing to live in Sodom when he and Abraham separated. Lot chose Sodom based on "what's in it for me?" He chose to live in a city that was full of worldliness and unbelievers. That environment would have affected how his daughters viewed life. They would have associated with the unbelieving people of that city daily. Living in Sodom and associating with the people there would have affected their sense of right and wrong. We see a similar thing happening in these last days where good is bad and bad is good. And their mother desired possessions and a comfortable life over what God was offering her and her family.

Its sad that for a godly man like Lot, his descendants were the Moabites and Ammonites who were idolatrous and rejected God and of course were enemies of God's people, Israel.