Without Tawheed, all your deeds are useless and worthless.

[A Freeman]

The following is TRUTH being shared for everyone's benefit, and is NOT a personal attack.

Worshipping Jesus IS worshipping God.

Jesus is equal to God; God did NOT create Jesus.

Jesus has always existed, He is eternal.

If Jesus is allegedly equal to God, then why did Jesus NEVER say that? Here is what Christ, through the mouth of Jesus, actually said:

John 10:29 My Father, which gave [them] me, IS GREATER THAN ALL; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.

John 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is NOT greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than He that sent him*.

Please note well that Christ tells us over 50 times that He (Christ) was sent by His Father and His God.

Spoiler

References in the Gospels to Christ being sent by God (52):-

Matthew (3): 10:40, 15:24, 21:37

Mark (2): 9:37, 12:6

Luke (6): 4:18, 4:26, 4:43, 9:48, 10:16, 20:13

John (41): 3:17, 3:34, 4:34, 5:23, 5:24, 5:30, 5:36, 5:37, 5:38, 6:29, 6:38, 6:39, 6:40, 6:44, 6:57, 7:16, 7:28, 7:29, 7:33, 8:7, 8:9, 8:17, 8:20, 8:33, 9:4, 10:36, 11:42, 12:44, 12:45, 12:49, 13:16, 13:20, 14:24, 15:21, 16:5, 17:3, 17:18, 17:21, 17:23, 17:25, 20:21

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I.

Christ, through the mouth of Jesus, also stated that He (Christ) can do NOTHING without Father (John 5:30) and that Father taught Him (Christ) EVERYTHING (John 5:19-20). And that Christ doesn't know everything as Father does (Matt. 24:36).

These are direct quotes from the mouth of Jesus. You obviously don't believe Jesus, or you would not be saying the exact opposite of what Jesus actually said.

What you are instead doing is promoting your own man-made doctrines and traditions, taught by most of the denominations/sects that deceitfully call themselves "Christianity", even though they do not believe nor do what Christ teaches (Matt. 7:21-27).

Jesus was present at the Creation of all things and created us, too.

No, Jesus (the mortal Son of Man that Christ incarnated) wasn't. Jesus WAS the son of the virgin Mary, born in Bethlehem of Judea, on 12 April in what would be 7 B.C. on our present-day calendars (adjusted of course for the changes made between the Julian and Gregorian calendars).

It was Christ (the immortal spiritual-Being Who is the Firstborn Son of God) that was present when everything and everyone else was created, right after God created Him (Christ) FIRST.

Colossians 1:12-15
1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, Which hath made us meet to be sharers of the inheritance of the holy people in Light:
1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into The Kingdom of His dear Son:
1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Observe:

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.” …Genesis 1:26 KJB

Notice how when God is speaking He says Let US make man in OUR image and after OUR likeness?

Please observe and notice that humans (man) were created on the 6th "day" AFTER the Earth was created and also after ALL of the angels of heaven (aka the SonS of God) were likewise created.

Hebrews 1:1-6
1:1 God, Who at sundry times and in diverse manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the Prophets,
1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [His] Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds;
1:3 Who being the brightness of [His] glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by The Word of His power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of His Majesty on high;
1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
1:5 For unto which of the angels said He at any time, Thou art My Son, this day have I begotten (created) thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to Me a Son?
1:6 And again, when He bringeth in the firstbegotten (i.e. FIRST-CREATED) into the world, He saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

"Let Us make man in our own image" is God referring to His Archangels, whom God SENDS to do His (God's) Will; in this case to make humans to help teach us how to be good, like God.

That’s because He is triune, and since He made us in His image & after His likeness, we are all triune as well.

Where did God ever say He was "triune" please? There isn't one single verse in all of Scripture that says God is a "Father, Son and Holy Spirit", or a "3-in-1" god, etc. ALL Scriptural references tells us that God is THE All-Powerful, Self-Existent ONE, and ONE MEANS ONE.

Further, Jesus+Christ told us that the flesh is flesh (human) and the spirit is spirit (a spirit-Being), which is why we refer to ourselves while in these bodies as human+Beings (John 3:3-7). There's nothing "triune" about that.

Like I was saying earlier, you only need to examine yourself to realize this.

As above please. You need to examine yourself and your ERRANT beliefs FIRST, to remove the log from your own eye. Jesus NEVER said any of the things that you are preaching.

You look in the mirror and see your body, but that is only one part of who you really are. It is not the totality of you, it is only what you can see with the naked eye and houses the other two parts of you so you can physically live on this earth.

What you cannot physically see is your spirit, which is the very breath of life from when God breathed you into existence, and is the part of you that speaks of your inner-life in relation to God…your faith, hope, love, character, etc. Your spirit is the essence of who you are, the fundamental core of your being.

You also cannot physically see your soul, which is the part of you that speaks of your inner-life in relation to yourself….your mind, will, personality, thoughts, passions, dreams, etc.

The REAL you is a spiritual-Being (Soul). You are NOT "a soul and a spirit" nor are you human, which is why Jesus NEVER referred to us in that way, instead speaking of the flesh (human) that we -- the spiritual-Being/Soul (spirit) -- incarnate, and learning to differentiate between the two.

We are temporarily "locked" inside of these human animal bodies that we see in the mirror, which we volunteered to do so that we can be taught how to be good. The only one of us who refused to submit to human limitations was Lucifer/Satan/Iblis (Gen. 1:26-27; Gen. 2:7; Rev. 12:7-9; Sura 7:11-18; Sura 17:61-65).

Sura 15:26-31
15:26. We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape;
15:27. And the Being (of light) race, We had created before, from the fire of a scorching wind.
15:28. Behold! Thy Lord said to the (fallen) angels: "I am about to create man, from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape;
15:29. When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down into submission inside him."
15:30. So the (fallen) angels submitted themselves (Luke 9:55), all of them together:
15:31. Except Iblis (Lucifer): he refused to be among those who submitted themselves (to human limitations).

Right now, all three parts of you are combined into one.

Same with me.

No. Right now we are each a human+Being, i.e. a spiritua-Being/Soul incarnated inside of the human body we see in the mirror, exactly as Jesus described.

However, if I died right now (God forbid) my soul and spirit would immediately exit my body, and because I am saved, they would both instantly travel to Heaven.

In Heaven, my brother would recognize me and call out to me, “Claire!”. And that is correct.

Meanwhile, back on earth, paramedics would ask my husband to identify me and would respond, “that’s Claire”. And he would also be correct.

So you can see how we are definitely triune beings.

As above please. You know not what spirit ye are of (Luke 9:55). The human may carry the name Claire, and be known to the human's husband as "Claire" but that is NOT who or what you really are. ALL human life ends in death, whereas each of us as spiritual-Beings have the free-will to choose between good and evil, between life and death (the second death - Rev. 20:12-15).

And contrary to the "Christian" MYTH (lie) we do NOT get to fill out our own report cards. God has chosen His Christ to be the Judge of all of us (John 5:22) on the Last Day, when ALL of us will be judged according to our works (Matt. 16:27). NONE of us have ever ascended to heaven (John 3:13).

And since God is the one who created us, and He created us in HIS image, it is only logical that God Himself is triune.

Please read what Genesis 1:26-27 actually says, instead of reading your personal doctrine into it. It says that man was created in God's Image (as protector and provider), NOT woman. Your faulty reasoning is based upon a bias taught to you by the spiritually blind which, as Jesus warned, are leading their unwitting (?) followers into The Fire.

 

[Orwell's mentor]

Orwell, this is not that difficult because we are living examples of tri-unity.

In all honesty Claire, where is this "tri-unity" language coming from? I can only deduce it's something your church teaches/propagates?

Yes, it is more accurate, because we are not adding up 3 different “gods”.

Rather, it is the three different components of the SAME, single God.

I am a spirit, with a soul, in a body of flesh. ….and these 3 ARE 1.

Same concept….my spirit is NOT my body, or soul. My soul is NOT my spirit or my body. My body is NOT my soul or spirit.

These 3 are different, yet all ONE Claire.

Again, this "3 in 1" language is odd to me to say the least. While some of what you posted makes a bit of sense from a spiritual standpoint that we are all one that have been created by the Heavenly Father, for me, it does not give any confirmation that Jesus is God. If Jesus spoke about the Heavenly Father in Mark 10:18, Luke 23:34, John 14:2 and John 5:30, I fail to see how anyone could proclaim that Jesus and the Heavenly Father are one of the same.

Combined with the fact that Daze has posted here a global map where UFO sightings have been recorded, it's my guess the US is lit up the way it is because it's not worshipping the Creator. If you're interested, Awoken actually posted an informative documentary that explains how the trinity is part of the Gnostic Gospels:

Is Religion A Form Of Mind Control?

I have a weed strain that probably no one else has in the world,accidental mix of "Blueberry Headband" and "Tangie Banana".It dont look,smell or taste like any other weed plant i have seen and ive seen many.Did god design that plant/strain of weed ? Was it all gods plan that this weed strain...

vigilantcitizenforums.com

 

[Claire Rousseau]

The following is TRUTH being shared for everyone's benefit, and is NOT a personal attack.


If Jesus is allegedly equal to God, then why did Jesus NEVER say that? Here is what Christ, through the mouth of Jesus, actually said:

John 10:29 My Father, which gave [them] me, IS GREATER THAN ALL; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.

John 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is NOT greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than He that sent him*.

Please note well that Christ tells us over 50 times that He (Christ) was sent by His Father and His God.

Spoiler

References in the Gospels to Christ being sent by God (52):-

Matthew (3): 10:40, 15:24, 21:37

Mark (2): 9:37, 12:6

Luke (6): 4:18, 4:26, 4:43, 9:48, 10:16, 20:13

John (41): 3:17, 3:34, 4:34, 5:23, 5:24, 5:30, 5:36, 5:37, 5:38, 6:29, 6:38, 6:39, 6:40, 6:44, 6:57, 7:16, 7:28, 7:29, 7:33, 8:7, 8:9, 8:17, 8:20, 8:33, 9:4, 10:36, 11:42, 12:44, 12:45, 12:49, 13:16, 13:20, 14:24, 15:21, 16:5, 17:3, 17:18, 17:21, 17:23, 17:25, 20:21

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I.

Christ, through the mouth of Jesus, also stated that He (Christ) can do NOTHING without Father (John 5:30) and that Father taught Him (Christ) EVERYTHING (John 5:19-20). And that Christ doesn't know everything as Father does (Matt. 24:36).

These are direct quotes from the mouth of Jesus. You obviously don't believe Jesus, or you would not be saying the exact opposite of what Jesus actually said.

What you are instead doing is promoting your own man-made doctrines and traditions, taught by most of the denominations/sects that deceitfully call themselves "Christianity", even though they do not believe nor do what Christ teaches (Matt. 7:21-27).


No, Jesus (the mortal Son of Man that Christ incarnated) wasn't. Jesus WAS the son of the virgin Mary, born in Bethlehem of Judea, on 12 April in what would be 7 B.C. on our present-day calendars (adjusted of course for the changes made between the Julian and Gregorian calendars).

It was Christ (the immortal spiritual-Being Who is the Firstborn Son of God) that was present when everything and everyone else was created, right after God created Him (Christ) FIRST.

Colossians 1:12-15
1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, Which hath made us meet to be sharers of the inheritance of the holy people in Light:
1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into The Kingdom of His dear Son:
1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:


Please observe and notice that humans (man) were created on the 6th "day" AFTER the Earth was created and also after ALL of the angels of heaven (aka the SonS of God) were likewise created.

Hebrews 1:1-6
1:1 God, Who at sundry times and in diverse manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the Prophets,
1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [His] Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds;
1:3 Who being the brightness of [His] glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by The Word of His power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of His Majesty on high;
1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
1:5 For unto which of the angels said He at any time, Thou art My Son, this day have I begotten (created) thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to Me a Son?
1:6 And again, when He bringeth in the firstbegotten (i.e. FIRST-CREATED) into the world, He saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

"Let Us make man in our own image" is God referring to His Archangels, whom God SENDS to do His (God's) Will; in this case to make humans to help teach us how to be good, like God.


Where did God ever say He was "triune" please? There isn't one single verse in all of Scripture that says God is a "Father, Son and Holy Spirit", or a "3-in-1" god, etc. ALL Scriptural references tells us that God is THE All-Powerful, Self-Existent ONE, and ONE MEANS ONE.

Further, Jesus+Christ told us that the flesh is flesh (human) and the spirit is spirit (a spirit-Being), which is why we refer to ourselves while in these bodies as human+Beings (John 3:3-7). There's nothing "triune" about that.


As above please. You need to examine yourself and your ERRANT beliefs FIRST, to remove the log from your own eye. Jesus NEVER said any of the things that you are preaching.


The REAL you is a spiritual-Being (Soul). You are NOT "a soul and a spirit" nor are you human, which is why Jesus NEVER referred to us in that way, instead speaking of the flesh (human) that we -- the spiritual-Being/Soul (spirit) -- incarnate, and learning to differentiate between the two.

We are temporarily "locked" inside of these human animal bodies that we see in the mirror, which we volunteered to do so that we can be taught how to be good. The only one of us who refused to submit to human limitations was Lucifer/Satan/Iblis (Gen. 1:26-27; Gen. 2:7; Rev. 12:7-9; Sura 7:11-18; Sura 17:61-65).

Sura 15:26-31
15:26. We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape;
15:27. And the Being (of light) race, We had created before, from the fire of a scorching wind.
15:28. Behold! Thy Lord said to the (fallen) angels: "I am about to create man, from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape;
15:29. When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down into submission inside him."
15:30. So the (fallen) angels submitted themselves (Luke 9:55), all of them together:
15:31. Except Iblis (Lucifer): he refused to be among those who submitted themselves (to human limitations).



No. Right now we are each a human+Being, i.e. a spiritua-Being/Soul incarnated inside of the human body we see in the mirror, exactly as Jesus described.



As above please. You know not what spirit ye are of (Luke 9:55). The human may carry the name Claire, and be known to the human's husband as "Claire" but that is NOT who or what you really are. ALL human life ends in death, whereas each of us as spiritual-Beings have the free-will to choose between good and evil, between life and death (the second death - Rev. 20:12-15).

And contrary to the "Christian" MYTH (lie) we do NOT get to fill out our own report cards. God has chosen His Christ to be the Judge of all of us (John 5:22) on the Last Day, when ALL of us will be judged according to our works (Matt. 16:27). NONE of us have ever ascended to heaven (John 3:13).


Please read what Genesis 1:26-27 actually says, instead of reading your personal doctrine into it. It says that man was created in God's Image (as protector and provider), NOT woman. Your faulty reasoning is based upon a bias taught to you by the spiritually blind which, as Jesus warned, are leading their unwitting (?) followers into The Fire.

There is so much to unpack here.

Firstly, it is clear that you are unsaved, which explains how you are able to grossly misinterpret, misunderstand and get the Bible wrong every time.

If you really wish to study the Holy Bible (aka King James Bible), the ONLY book you are even capable of understanding when you are unsaved is the book of John, because John was written specifically TO the unsaved for the purpose of getting them saved:

“But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.” ….John 20:31 KJB

Most people (including many self-proclaimed “Christians”) are unaware that the Holy Bible is spiritually “locked”, so to speak. It is not just a book/collection of books—It is the very Word of God, it is supernatural and it can only be SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED; you must be saved to comprehend it.


(The word “natural” in verse 14 above is referring to the UNSAVED/un-regenerated man.)

It’s interesting, because I discovered this through experience before I ever learned of this doctrine. I had tried reading the Holy Bible many times for the first 22 years of my life (before I got saved) and I could NEVER understand it. I could read the words but it just did NOT make sense. Like most people, I dismissed it as simply being the old, archaic vernacular, or secretly worrying if maybe I just wasn’t smart enough to grasp it.

(It was not until AFTER I got saved, that I reflected back & realized that it wasn’t the language at all; it was completely spiritual.)

The day that I got saved, I again sat down to read it, and to my disappointment, it was no clearer. So that night, I prayed and asked God: If the King James Bible is really YOUR Word, will you please help me understand it?

I arose the next morning, opened the Bible again, and I nearly fell out of my chair I was so stunned—I completely understood & fully comprehended it. God answered my prayer; the Holy Spirit had “unlocked” the knowledge to me. Praise God.

That might seem like a bit of a tangent, but is the necessary intro to the series of posts that will be required to respond to all of your butcherings.

Next one coming soon…

 

[90sWereBetter]

The day that I got saved, I again sat down to read it, and to my disappointment, it was no clearer. So that night, I prayed and asked God: If the King James Bible is really YOUR Word, will you please help me understand it?

the King James Bible in English is the kalaam of Allah?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ok, well no way am I out to mock your religion. but... the idea that the English KJV is the kalaam of Allah is a little... it's a little foreign to the way I think.

 

[90sWereBetter]

@Claire Rousseau don't you nasaara admit that bits of the NT are the kalaam of Paul????? how do you reconcile something being the kalaam of Paul with it being the kalaam of Allah?????????!!!!!!! this kind of makes me angry- is Paul now a fourth of the trinity??? it's now a fourity????

anyways, doesn't claiming the Bible is kalaam of Allah go against the official Christian doctrine??? I thought the official doctrine is it was written by holy men who were inspired- not that it's direct kalaam of Allah. next I wonder if you'll be claiming the Bible is uncreated

 

[90sWereBetter]

honestly I think what sort of causes me to feel a sort of umbrage with this "English kjv is the kalaam of Allah doctrine" is.... myself and any non-Arab Muslim who wants to be educated in our religion... we have to go through a lot of trouble to study and learn Arabic.... whereas in this doctrine Allah just conveniently revealed his kalaam in English after already having revealed his kalaam in the original texts of the Bible.... this to me highlights part of why Islam for me is so satisfying... there is a level of intellectualism in Islam that isn't there in Christianity

 

[Arjibarjoe]

which God? the one Muslims believe in or one of the Hindu deities?

That black cube/Saturn worship says other wise

 

[90sWereBetter]

even how we interpret the Quran versus how Christians interpret the Bible... the Christians think any random person can just open the Bible and start interpreting it... they don't take the same scientific approach that Muslims take with tafsir

 

[90sWereBetter]

That black cube/Saturn worship says other wise

there is a black cover over the kaaba.... it used to be various different colors and later they just stuck with a black cloth.... if the kaaba having a black cover was something integral it would have just been black from the beginning.

 

[AspiringSoul]

@Claire Rousseau you're having all these empty convos with other people who have never read the bible, but can't talk to the one muslim who actually understands the bible...

 

[DesertRose]

That black cube/Saturn worship says other wise

Seriously?
What if I told my people not to believe Christians who say they worship the triune God?
What if I told them that Christians actually literally worship the actual cross?
They hold it, kiss it, pray on it and believe they cast out the devils with it.
That would be a lie.
That cross is a symbol of their truine God.
Rather you lie about us and our symbols.
The Creator does not guide liars:
"Unquestionably, for Allah is the pure religion. And those who take protectors besides Him [say], "We only worship them that they may bring us nearer to Allah in position." Indeed, Allah will judge between them concerning that over which they differ. Indeed, Allah does not guide he who is a liar and [confirmed] disbeliever. "
39:3

Hajj commemorations:
"Indeed, Safa and Marwa are among the symbols of Allah. So whoever does the Hajj in the House or performs Umrah – he is not blamed for walking between them. And whoever does good, then Allah is grateful and knowing.
[Surah al-Baqarah, 2: 158"

"And your god is one God. There is no deity [worthy of worship] except Him, the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful. 2:163"

"Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and earth, and the alternation of the night and the day, and the [great] ships which sail through the sea with that which benefits people, and what Allah has sent down from the heavens of rain, giving life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness and dispersing therein every [kind of] moving creature, and [His] directing of the winds and the clouds controlled between the heaven and the earth are signs for a people who use reason. 2:164"

"And [yet], among the people are those who take other than Allah as equals [to Him]. They love them as they [should] love Allah . But those who believe are stronger in love for Allah . And if only they who have wronged would consider [that] when they see the punishment, [they will be certain] that all power belongs to Allah and that Allah is severe in punishment. 2:165"

 

[AspiringSoul]

honestly I think what sort of causes me to feel a sort of umbrage with this "English kjv is the kalaam of Allah doctrine" is.... myself and any non-Arab Muslim who wants to be educated in our religion... we have to go through a lot of trouble to study and learn Arabic.... whereas in this doctrine Allah just conveniently revealed his kalaam in English after already having revealed his kalaam in the original texts of the Bible.... this to me highlights part of why Islam for me is so satisfying... there is a level of intellectualism in Islam that isn't there in Christianity

as much as we are both trying to defend islam in different ways..
your arguments are against the Quran when it comes to the bible.

in the 7th century, as the Quran was revealed, in the present tense/context, Allah literally referred to the Torah and Gospel as TRUTH.
The verse speaking of the 'corruption' in the bible, was taken out of context and even the muslim translators commited the same act of corruption.
the corruption refers to tafsir/interpretations/tranlations. the prophet SAW literally held the torah, placed in on a pillow and said 'I BELIEVE IN YOU'. All he was concerned about with regards to the bible, was that muslims were trusting in the madani jews to interpret/translate the torah into arabic correctly. So he told the muslims to avoid those translations.

we live in the age of information today and can do a lot of research. The Torah and Gospel in the time of prophet Mohammad SAW was the Greek Septuagint

Septuagint - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

this has been the version used since the 2nd century.
The translations are based on this. The masoretic version which the jews and catholics use (i might be wrong) are also older than the Quran.

At the very least muslims can say that the Greek septuaguint, which the majority follow, is THE WORD OF ALLAH/TRUTH etc..and that any corruption occurs only in translations/interpetations.
Yet that is also true for the Quran.

just as you might try to argue that the greek septuaguing is a later compilation, ie after the prophets...the same is true for the 'usmanic Quran'.the greek septuaguint being a translation in of itself, is still enforsed by the Quran and hence it has divine confirmation.

you know what doesnt have divine confirmation? the hadith...

 

[AspiringSoul]

That black cube/Saturn worship says other wise

shit argument, the kaba is not 'black'. The cloth covering the Kaba has been black/gold in our lifetime, but historically it has been various colours and was originally WHITE in the lifetime of prophet.

if your next argument is 'but da coob doe' then shut the fuck up because houses are generally cube shaped lmfao.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

the King James Bible in English is the kalaam of Allah?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ok, well no way am I out to mock your religion. but... the idea that the English KJV is the kalaam of Allah is a little... it's a little foreign to the way I think.

Indeed, it IS.

God proved that to me.

I had just gotten saved and it ignited a hunger in me to know the Word of God—I actually started with the NIV which was very easy to read but it just did not come across as authentic. I flipped through many other versions with the same result…they just did not seem to be inspired by God.

Then I remembered that my grandmother gave me an old black leather one and I fished it out of the attic. Its cover simply read “Holy Bible” in gold lettering. The very first page stated it was an Authorized King James Holy Bible and I recalled how this was the one that I could never understand.

I immediately began reading a random page and just like every other time before, it didn’t make sense. I flipped through about a dozen random pages and it was all the same.

You know how when you read really intense, formal papers, like legal documents or judicial codes, how it’s difficult to understand?

It was kind of like that but exponentially harder. It was almost like reading a foreign language but it was English.

Before, I would get annoyed, lose interest & move on. But for some reason, this time it really intrigued me, and I was determined to resolve it. I just didn’t know how.

So, I figured, why not ask God? So I prayed about it.

During my prayer, I specifically asked God “IF” the King James Bible is truly HIS WORD, to please help me understand it.

Then I went to bed, and when I woke up in the morning it was as clear and simple as reading the comments on this forum, and it has been that way for 20 years now.

So….if you say it is not the Word of God, then how do you explain my exact prayer being answered—literally overnight—and my sudden & complete understanding of the text that was absolutely foreign for two decades??

I’ve come to discover that is exactly how God works: He provides or reveals things in such a way that you KNOW it was Him.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

even how we interpret the Quran versus how Christians interpret the Bible... the Christians think any random person can just open the Bible and start interpreting it... they don't take the same scientific approach that Muslims take with tafsir

No, you have to be saved to understand the Holy Bible. That is why many “Christians” don’t see eye-to-eye on doctrines; the vast majority of people who say they are Christians are unsaved and spiritually blinded to God’s Word, but they will not realize this unless they get saved.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

What is the most popular name in the world today?

Have We not opened your breast for you (O Muhammad)
And removed from you your burden
Which weighed down your back
And raised high your fame (94:1-4 Quran)




I posted a tweet in the Islamic video thread recently showing a 2 year old has memorized the Quran. Here in American 2 year olds can't even memorize the alphabet. How can you not see the Divine force behind the Quran?

“Oh people, if you doubt the heavenly origin of this Book which We have sent down to Our servant, the Prophet, produce one surah like it.” (2:23 Quran)

1400 years later, how many Quran's are there? .. just 1.


“Were all mankind to come together and wish to produce the like of the Qur’an, they would never succeed, however much they aided each other”. (17:88 Quran)

Because when I read the Quran I hear the voice of a HUMAN author—NOT God, and my suspicions are confirmed when I observe the characteristics of Allah from the Quran, such as deception:

Qur'an 3:54—And they (the unbelievers) planned to deceive, and Allah planned to deceive (the unbelievers), and Allah is the best of deceivers.

Qur'an 7:99—Are they then safe from Allah's deception? No one feels safe from Allah's deception except those that shall perish.

Qur'an 8:30—And (remember) when the unbelievers plotted deception against you (O Muhammad), to imprison you, or kill you, or expel you. They plotted deception, but Allah also plotted deception; and Allah is the best of deceivers.

The God I know CANNOT lie:

“In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;” ….Titus 1:2 KJB


And how does a 2 yr old with good rote memorization prove the Quran is divinely inspired?

 

[Claire Rousseau]

also btw the Christians not only believe in human sacrifice of Jesus.... they even ritually "eat his flesh and drink his blood"....

the Christians have a doctrine of polytheism, human sacrifice and cannibalism!!!!!!!!

Those are the Catholics, NOT Christians. Huge difference.

 

[DesertRose]

@Claire Rousseau

"The Quran also emphasizes that Allaah, The Exalted, is devoid of any imperfection or deficiency; He says (what means): {Exalted is your Lord, the Lord of might, above what they describe.} [Quran 37:180]

Ash-Shawkaani

wrote, "Allaah exalts Himself above all that which they ascribe to Him and that does not befit Him. He says (what means): {Exalted is your Lord, the Lord of might, above what they describe.} It means that He is deemed Exalted and far above what they falsely attribute to Him that does not befit His Majesty..." [Fat-h Al-Qadeer]

The words Makr, Khidaa', and Kayd, translated into English as scheming or plotting, are not dispraised in all contexts. They may be praiseworthy or blameworthy depending on the context. Ar-Raaghib

wrote:
"Makr means undermining the plot of the opponent by means of stratagem.

It has two categories: first, a praiseworthy Makr by means of which the doer seeks the realization of that which is good.
This category of Makr has been indicated in the verse that reads (what means): {And the disbelievers planned, but Allaah planned. And Allaah is the best of planners.} [Quran 3:54] The plotting of Allaah is always for the good and can never be evil.

The second category is a blameworthy Makr through which the doer seeks the realization of an evil goal or reaching an evil end. Allaah, The Exalted, says (what means): {... the evil plot does not encompass except its own people...} [Quran 35:43]..." [Mufradaat Al-Quran]

Based on that, Makr (plotting, planning, or scheming) can be either praiseworthy or blameworthy; if it is counter plotting aiming at subverting the evil plots of the opponents, it is praiseworthy because it entails being stronger than such plotters (opponents); otherwise, it is blameworthy and implies dispraise as it is labeled as betrayal.

Therefore, Allaah, The Exalted, never described Himself with the attribute of 'Maakir', meaning plotter or schemer in the broader sense of the word. Rather, plotting is attributable to Allaah in the contexts when it is counter to plotting aiming at subverting the evil schemes of the disbelievers against Him and His Messengers and when it is restricted to that.

Hence, it can be said that Allaah plots against His enemies or those who plot against Him and the believers and not in the general sense of the word. Allaah, The Exalted, says (what means): {And the disbelievers planned, but Allaah planned. And Allaah is the best of planners.} [Quran 3:54]

This includes what Allaah, The Exalted, says (what means): {And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allaah." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.} [Quran 4:157]

The verse refers to a counter plot to frustrate theirs. It indicates that Allaah, The Exalted, is essentially stronger than them. This is why the following verse reads (what means): {Rather, Allaah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allaah Exalted in Might and Wise.} [Quran 4:158] This is a manifestation of His Might and Wisdom."
This is the correct way to understand the Quran meanings and not the odd and faulty one suggested by such opponents.

It is quite strange that such misconceptions are raised by the Christians who had violated the sanctity of the divine names and attributes of Allaah, ascribing a son to Him and falsely fabricating the Trinity doctrine.
Instead of attacking the Quran and questioning its authenticity - and they have no chance in accomplishing that objective, indeed – they should have focused, instead, on the altered present-day Christianity that abounds in myths and the contradictions in their distorted scriptures."

Refuting the malicious allegation that Allaah deceives people

Explore the truth behind the misunderstood Quranic verses often cited by critics alleging that Allah deceives individuals. This page addresses the accusations derived from Quran 3:54, 4:157, and 8:30, clarifying that the Arabic terms for scheming or plotting (makr) hold different implications...

www.islamweb.net

 

[Claire Rousseau]

NO! Claire.
This is anthropomorphism:
The ascription of human attributes to supernatural or (The)divine being; in theology, the conception or representation of God with human qualities and affections, or in a human shape.

I think you’ve misunderstood…what I am saying is that GOD created man in HIS (God’s) image & likeness, not the other way around.

That is what the Holy Bible says:

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.” -Genesis 1:26 KJB

 

[90sWereBetter]

Because when I read the Quran I hear the voice of a HUMAN author—NOT God, and my suspicions are confirmed when I observe the characteristics of Allah from the Quran, such as deception:

Firstly- unless you read Arabic, you have never read the Quran.

Furthermore, what you state here: "Qur'an 3:54—And they (the unbelievers) planned to deceive, and Allah planned to deceive (the unbelievers), and Allah is the best of deceivers."

this is a fake translation. you are basing your argument on a fake translation.

And how does a 2 yr old with good rote memorization prove the Quran is divinely inspired?

I don't think a two year old memorizing Quran is proof of the Quran. I haven't said that, I don't have any burden of proving that. Someone else might say that but it isn't some integral part of Islam or something I believe.