why Christians reject Roman Catholic church

Red Sky at Morning

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That makes no sense whatsoever. How can the "original disciples" quote from NT documents like Paul's epistles? Many of the pronouncements in this thread come from the latter, and they make up what is essentially Pauline Christianity.
Put another way, imagine a circumstance where people were using roads in a particular country. Imagine that people were already using certain roads and ignoring others long before their routes and grades were reflected on a map. When the cartographers got involved, in essence all they would be doing is “canonising” certain routes while downgrading other routes as being narrow, dangerous etc.

From the fact that certain Books from the NT were extensively quoted while others notably ignored (prior to the official canonisation of tge 66 books) a person might reasonably conclude that this state of affairs held true for the early church too.
 

Maldarker

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It amazes me that the same people who try and bring others under the law can't even see that no matter their very best efforts to keep the law it only condemns them. The law demands perfect obedience without fail and if you stumble just once in one little thing you break the entirety of it. Imagine how demoralizing it must be for a self righteous person to learn that if he sins only once in a day that he has ultimately broken the whole law and is regarded as a law breaker just like everyone else. Don't think that's possible? It only took one sin for Adam and Eve to be banished from Eden and reap the wages of sin which is death. They died because of ONE sin. This is why our righteousness is in Christ and him alone or we don't have any, at all. The law can't bring any righteousness. It can only incur guilt.

I haven't met a single person who insists we need to keep the law that keeps it themselves. They answer honestly and admit they don't keep the law. Most aren't even willing to admit they went their whole day without being guilty of some manner of sin. One sin is enough to break the law. If you stand before God on judgment day and he judges without impartiality according to The Law you will be found guilty. It's that simple. The law works wrath that's why it's called the ministration of condemnation and death. It was given that transgression may increase. Your not minimizing sin by being a minister of The Law you are setting people up in a way that they incur more guilt. The law says you MUST do this or that and you are obligated to keep ALL of it. If you don't then you are a law breaker, period. Israel was given The Law and look at their history.
I would also add that and maybe this is why always questioned it if i do one sin how do i then weigh it out with good to make balance per se....see where this ends into works theology....So again question begs how do you know when??? How is it balanced seems need to go back to temple sacrifice at that point and lots and lots of animal blood to clear the ledger that can never be cleared see the logical issue? The only thing the law does is show how much when i look in the mirror i am dirty and unrighteous and only hope is in the redemption through CHRIST period.
 

Lyfe

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I would also add that and maybe this is why always questioned it if i do one sin how do i then weigh it out with good to make balance per se....see where this ends into works theology....So again question begs how do you know when??? How is it balanced seems need to go back to temple sacrifice at that point and lots and lots of animal blood to clear the ledger that can never be cleared see the logical issue? The only thing the law does is show how much when i look in the mirror i am dirty and unrighteous and only hope is in the redemption through CHRIST period.
That's how it is. The law will say you kept this, this, this, and that...

But.. it will also point out that you failed to keep all these other things.

Verdict: Guilty

Or let's just say you managed to keep 99% of the whole law.

Verdict:. Still guilty
 

Alanantic

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I would also add that and maybe this is why always questioned it if i do one sin how do i then weigh it out with good to make balance per se....see where this ends into works theology....So again question begs how do you know when??? How is it balanced seems need to go back to temple sacrifice at that point and lots and lots of animal blood to clear the ledger that can never be cleared see the logical issue? The only thing the law does is show how much when i look in the mirror i am dirty and unrighteous and only hope is in the redemption through CHRIST period.
Actually, the balance is automatic.

"All these sufferings are man-made and it is within man's power to put an end to them. God helps by facing man with the results of his actions and demanding that the balance should be restored. Karma is the law that works for righteousness; it is the healing hand of God." -- Nisargadatta
 

Lyfe

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Actually, the balance is automatic.

"All these sufferings are man-made and it is within man's power to put an end to them. God helps by facing man with the results of his actions and demanding that the balance should be restored. Karma is the law that works for righteousness; it is the healing hand of God." -- Nisargadatta
There is the concept of reaping what you sow. It's not exactly Karma though.
 

Maldarker

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Actually, the balance is automatic.

"All these sufferings are man-made and it is within man's power to put an end to them. God helps by facing man with the results of his actions and demanding that the balance should be restored. Karma is the law that works for righteousness; it is the healing hand of God." -- Nisargadatta
No no it doesn't to many examples where karma should have but nope....and thus the suffering that persists
 

free2018

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The law can not be completely done away with. If the law were completely done away with, then adultery and sodomy would be scripturally fine. They are not.
 

A Freeman

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The law gives the knowledge of sin. That doesn't change.
What good is that knowledge if you don't use it? THINK about it.

The Law was given to us to teach us the difference between good/truth/love/justice/righteousness/selflessness/life and evil/lies/hatred/injustice/sin/selfishness/death in the hope that we choose life and good over death and evil.

God and Christ want all of us to strive with all of our might to live by and obey His Law for our own benefit.

Satan wants to con us into believing that God is an idiot, Who allegedly gave us a law we cannot keep, so why try? Go ahead and continue to sin all you want, and expect to be rewarded for being a criminal when it's all over by playing your get out of jail free card.

It doesn't work that way, and everyone should know better by now, after 6000 years of playing this game.

Deuteronomy 30:15-20
30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the "I AM" thy God, to walk in His Ways, and to keep His Commandments and His Statutes and His Judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the "I AM" thy God shall bless thee in the land where thou goest to possess it.
30:17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
30:18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, [and that] ye shall not prolong [your] days upon the land, where thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
30:20 That thou mayest love the "I AM" thy God, [and] that thou mayest obey His voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto Him: for He [is] thy Life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the "I AM" sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob/Israel, to give them.

Jesus provided us with another opportunity to learn to think straight and obey God only. The Promised Land now is heaven, and there is no way to get there without lovingly following Christ-Jesus' Example.

Anything less than that exhibits a total lack of gratitude and respect for the sacrifice Christ made.
 

Lyfe

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What good is that knowledge if you don't use it? THINK about it.

The Law was given to us to teach us the difference between good/truth/love/justice/righteousness/selflessness/life and evil/lies/hatred/injustice/sin/selfishness/death in the hope that we choose life and good over death and evil.

God and Christ want all of us to strive with all of our might to live by and obey His Law for our own benefit.

Satan wants to con us into believing that God is an idiot, Who allegedly gave us a law we cannot keep, so why try? Go ahead and continue to sin all you want, and expect to be rewarded for being a criminal when it's all over by playing your get out of jail free card.

It doesn't work that way, and everyone should know better by now, after 6000 years of playing this game.

Deuteronomy 30:15-20
30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the "I AM" thy God, to walk in His Ways, and to keep His Commandments and His Statutes and His Judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the "I AM" thy God shall bless thee in the land where thou goest to possess it.
30:17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
30:18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, [and that] ye shall not prolong [your] days upon the land, where thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
30:20 That thou mayest love the "I AM" thy God, [and] that thou mayest obey His voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto Him: for He [is] thy Life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the "I AM" sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob/Israel, to give them.

Jesus provided us with another opportunity to learn to think straight and obey God only. The Promised Land now is heaven, and there is no way to get there without lovingly following Christ-Jesus' Example.

Anything less than that exhibits a total lack of gratitude and respect for the sacrifice Christ made.

One sin was enough for Adam and Eve to get banished from Eden.

One sin...

Do you really think The Law can paint you in a favorable light?
 

Padre_Neo

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Don't know if any of you seen this, I got alot from this interview. He seems to get in touch with a lot of Christian concepts.

 

monkeylove

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Reality v. Propaganda

Excerpt below from: The Top 10 Myths that Dominate Christianity -


8. Peter the Roman?

The foundation for both the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) and her daughters, i.e. ALL the Protestant religions to which she gave birth, is built on the LIE that Peter was the first pope of Rome. Simon Peter was NEVER in Rome, much less the first pope of the Babylonian mystery religion (Rev. 17:5).

The RCC claims Peter served in Rome in the capacity of pope from 41-66 A.D. (some historians differ on these dates, but not on the location) and that the papacy derives its authority by apostolic succession from Peter, whom they claim is buried under St. Peter's Basilica. But even a cursory examination of the Scriptures (The Rock-solid Truth) proves this is a complete fabrication.

Matthew 10:5-6
10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go NOT into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the "House of Israel".

Are we to believe that Peter directly disobeyed The Master (Christ-Jesus) and went to Gentile Rome anyway?

Galatians 2:7-9
2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter;
2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:
2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Peter's Assignment: Circumcision = Jews/Judah (Jerusalem, Joppa, etc.)

Paul's Assignment: Uncircumcision = Gentiles (e.g. Rome)

In the letter to the Romans we are told that those assignments would NOT be intermingled.

Romans 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was known about, lest I should build upon another man's foundation.

That same letter goes on to send greetings and salutations to no less than 28 people who were in Rome at the very time Peter was supposedly pope (Rom. 16:1-15), and yet it never mentions Peter, which would be very strange and extremely rude if Peter had actually been there. It would also have been completely unnecessary to send a letter to instruct the community in Rome if Peter had been there leading them at that time.

Clearly Peter wasn't in Rome. He was exactly where he was supposed to be: in Jerusalem and the surrounding area. In fact Peter died (of old age, NOT on a satanic inverted cross – John 21:17-19) in Jerusalem and was buried there, where his tomb was discovered in 1953 at a Franciscan monastery site called "Dominus Flevit" (see next post).

The first pope of the RCC was not until the 4th century A.D., when the Roman Emperor Constantine took the title “bishop of bishops” for himself. He presided over the Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D. in that capacity, which is when and where the "Creed of Nicaea", now known as the "Nicene Creed" was incorporated, which introduced the concept of the pagan trinity into Christianity, mixing it together with the true teachings of Christ.

The entire “apostolic succession” from Peter through to Constantine was then fabricated and back-filled to try to legitimize the church's worldly authority. ALL based on LIES, because Simon Peter was NEVER in Rome.
Right, and it was in the Council of Rome that the list of books that would make up the canon appeared.

In short, the very context that for Biblical Christianity Scriptures attacks is what led to the selection of works that would make up Scriptures!
 

monkeylove

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Put another way, imagine a circumstance where people were using roads in a particular country. Imagine that people were already using certain roads and ignoring others long before their routes and grades were reflected on a map. When the cartographers got involved, in essence all they would be doing is “canonising” certain routes while downgrading other routes as being narrow, dangerous etc.

From the fact that certain Books from the NT were extensively quoted while others notably ignored (prior to the official canonisation of tge 66 books) a person might reasonably conclude that this state of affairs held true for the early church too.
Right, and that's the same map used in Biblical Christianity. In short, the context that the latter attacks using a list of books is the same one that came up with that list! And even selection involves more than just roads routinely taken, as seen in the number of Gospels decided upon, and all the way to points for and against including Revelations.

Biblical Christianity essentially ignores all that by assuming that the map constituted itself.
 

A Freeman

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One sin was enough for Adam and Eve to get banished from Eden.

One sin...
So your solution is to multiply sin/lawlessness and hope you are rewarded for doing so?

1 John 3:8-9
3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he (Christ) is righteous.
3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the Beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Do you really think The Law can paint you in a favorable light?
Do you really think that refusing to repent, i.e. to stop sinning/breaking The Law will paint you or anyone else in a favorable light?

1 John 5:2-3
5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and KEEP His Commandments.
5:3 For THIS is the love of God, that we KEEP His Commandments: and His Commandments are not grievous.
 

A Freeman

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Right, and it was in the Council of Rome that the list of books that would make up the canon appeared.

In short, the very context that for Biblical Christianity Scriptures attacks is what led to the selection of works that would make up Scriptures!
Would you be so kind as to rephrase that please? Not sure what point you're hoping to make.

We can say with absolute certainty, from Scripture, that Peter was never in Rome and that he didn't die on an inverted cross there nor anywhere else, and that he isn't buried in St. Peter's Basilica as his tomb was found in Jerusalem, as the Vatican knows.

So the Vatican has been telling and promoting lies since their inception. And as far as their control over the Scriptures, the Greek Septuagint predated Jesus by several hundred years (see the Letter of Aristeas), so the Roman Catholic church can hardly take credit for that.

What the RCC did do was try to remove parts of the Bible that further expose the evil they do and tell us how to recognize and correct the mistakes in translation or intentional alterations (e.g. the Book of Enoch, the last 8 chapters of the Book of Revelation), like the intentional additions the RCC made in Matt. 28:19 and in 1 John 5:7-8.
 
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Please stop lying to others, both for your sake and for the sake of those you might deceive. Instead, please take the time to read through what has been shared with you, and the Scriptures, and see for yourself how the world REALLY is.
I HAVE read your book. You think i just randomly found a passage to screenshot?

But yes, I've read it, i will stick to reading the scriptures.

There have been points that I've agreed with you on, but you are just determined to argue and misconstrue everything i say.

It's a shame we can't just focus on the topic, which is the errors of the catholic church and its constantly evolving doctrine.
 

free2018

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One sin was enough for Adam and Eve to get banished from Eden.

One sin...

Do you really think The Law can paint you in a favorable light?
The Adversary is the same adversary we fight now and Adam actually commit idolatry by listening to the woman. There were many sins committed before they actually “ate the fruit.”

The Elite are the serpent’s people 6000 years later.
 
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Lyfe

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So your solution is to multiply sin/lawlessness and hope you are rewarded for doing so?

1 John 3:8-9
3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he (Christ) is righteous.
3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the Beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.


Do you really think that refusing to repent, i.e. to stop sinning/breaking The Law will paint you or anyone else in a favorable light?

1 John 5:2-3
5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and KEEP His Commandments.
5:3 For THIS is the love of God, that we KEEP His Commandments: and His Commandments are not grievous.
Jesus said that unless a man is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. If someone has been born again that means God has put his spirit within them and given them a new heart. This spiritual rebirth does what The Law could never do which is transform someone inwardly. This is called regeneration and why John said that nobody who is born of God can go on habitually sinning, because they are born of God and his SEED is in them. Paul said that this ministry of the holy spirit far exceeds the ministration of The Law for this purpose(2 Corinthians 3). The Law is external regulation whereas the Holy Spirit brings internal transformation.

You inferred my solution was to multiply sin yet that's exactly what The Law does. The law was given that sin may increase(Romans 5:20) and that the whole world would be accountable to God. It was given that every mouth would be stopped. You can only ever be a sinner by the measure of The Law and t cannot work in your favor in any way whatsoever, because it records all your sins without partiality. Your focus will be on what you do right yet The Law will keep record of the wrong, even the many wrongs that God sees and that you fail to take into account. Adam and Eve were banished for one sin. Imagine being banished and cut off from God over and over and over again for one sin. This is how righteous of a judge God is.

How many times do you think you sinned yesterday just in your thoughts and attitudes?

The old covenant was the law and the new one is not. God's answer to sin in the old covenant is not the same as the solution he provides in the new. His solution in the new is to change someone.
 

Lyfe

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The Adversary is the same adversary we fight now and Adam actually commit idolatry by listening to the woman. There were many sins committed before they actually “ate the fruit.”

The Elite are the serpent’s people 6000 years later.
God's response toward sin is always the same. If they had sinned before they ate the fruit they would have died beforehand.
 
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