The American “Coup d’etat”

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Logos

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I just wanted to pop on and say this...

I have been a lurker for years. I used to be an active member of the former Vigilant Forums.

With that being said, it is hard to take some of you seriously when all you do is CRITICIZE the other side with Ad Hominem attacks.

I can pinpoint your political party based off how you handle your opinion of the other side - because from a lurker's point-of-view, the degradation is very much one-sided on these forums - and honestly, I could not give two iotas what party you are for. It is just very obvious from a third-party perspective.

There is no need to constantly reference the "other side" as sycophants, cultists, psychos, ignorant, etc. Can we not have logical debate without condescending name-calling?

With that being said, if all the censorship on social media of Republican groups and activists doesn't scare you...I will never be on board with the Left's Blatant Socialist Agenda. They are now parading it out in the open because most Americans in these major cities that are blue have been conditioned to be blind to socialism, especially since it isn't their "side" that is being oppressed - or so they are led to believe. It is sickening to watch the current degradation of America and fellow citizens supporting the suppression of other fellow citizens all because of his or her beliefs. Is this what we have come to?

THIS is not what America was founded upon, and it is what scares me the most. Citizens that have come from oppressive governments in other countries are awake to what is happening in our country, and they are shaken. We should be, too.
 
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justjess

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Thunderian said:
How do you know?
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Because I live here and applied for a mail in ballot here and had to fill out all the paperwork and read all the disclaimers and received about a million notices in the mail from the state regarding the whole thing going back to the primaries.
 
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justjess

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Thunderian said:
This seems relevant.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1332917686918066176
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If dominion did that it would be easily proven by tabulating the paper ballot back ups that each state in question has. Which they have done - in some cases twice now - and that has not been the case. Maybe that worked in Venezuela when there was no paper record to consult that would easily expose the scheme. In America we keep a paper trail.
 
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justjess

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Thunderian said:
I’ve said what I’ve said. I’m not interested in restating it.
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What you said does not in any way shape or form address the fact that they made changes to mail in voting outside the Pennsylvania constitution in 2015. They didn’t challenge those changes - not in 2015, not in 2016, and not in 2018. They are only challenging it now. And quite frankly the bill which made additional changes in 2019 passed with bipartisan support. Some of the same republicans now trying to call foul voted for it. Do you have any comments on any of the above?
 
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justjess

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Thunderian said:
uncoverdc.com

Case Dismissed? Analysis of Decision in Pennsylvania’s Parnell Case

Earlier this evening, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court issued a brief, three-page order dismissing an election lawsuit brought by Sean Parnell and several other qualified Pennsylvania voters challenging the constitutionality of Pennsylvania’s recently-enacted state law governing mai
uncoverdc.com uncoverdc.com

From the article:

The Pennsylvania Constitution and Voting Law

The Pennsylvania constitution allows absentee voting under five situations: (1) work; (2) illness; (3) physical disability; (4) the election occurring on a religious holiday; or (5) a person’s election-day duties themselves preventing the person from voting in person. No other justifications are allowed for absentee voting under the Pennsylvania constitution.

Towards the end of 2019, a majority of both houses of the Pennsylvania General Assembly passed the relevant mail-in voting legislation at issue here. As I discussed in my previous two articles, this legislation expanded voting by mail beyond the above-five situations under the Pennsylvania constitution to include any situation. In other words, the law purported to allow voting by mail for any reason whatsoever.

But while the General Assemblypassed the legislation, this was not, in and of itself, sufficient to amend the Pennsylvania constitution and expand voting by mail beyond the above-five circumstances. To amount to a constitutional amendment, the Pennsylvania constitution requires that the law be passed a second time by a majority vote of both houses of the General Assembly in the next legislative assembly. Once that is done, a majority of Pennsylvania voters then have to approve the mail-in voting legislation in a statewide election.

The above process has not taken place. Indeed, the Pennsylvania General Assembly itself appears to have recognized that such an expansion of mail-in voting would have to come about via a constitutional amendment, as the law itself was originally presented as a joint resolution proposing an amendment to the Pennsylvania Constitution.
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So I just read the PA constitution and it specifically allows for the legislature to have control over voting procedures. It says nothing about having to amend the constitution first. And the section on absentee voting is actually way more inclusive in its language then what is being alleged. I attached the relevant portions here.
 

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Thunderian

Thunderian

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justjess said:
Because I live here and applied for a mail in ballot here and had to fill out all the paperwork and read all the disclaimers and received about a million notices in the mail from the state regarding the whole thing going back to the primaries.
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Do you have anything I can read that spells it out? I’ve found nothing and I’m very curious about this.
 
Thunderian

Thunderian

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justjess said:
What you said does not in any way shape or form address the fact that they made changes to mail in voting outside the Pennsylvania constitution in 2015. They didn’t challenge those changes - not in 2015, not in 2016, and not in 2018. They are only challenging it now. And quite frankly the bill which made additional changes in 2019 passed with bipartisan support. Some of the same republicans now trying to call foul voted for it. Do you have any comments on any of the above?
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It’s my understanding that Republicans voted for it with the expectation that it would progress to a constitutional amendment. Republicans voting for something doesn’t nullify the Pennsylvania state constitution, does it?

I have to say I’m a bit baffled by your continued argument on this. The constitution seems pretty clear that, without an amendment, absentee ballots that are cast for any reason other than those permitted by the constitution are null. No amendment was passed, so the votes aren’t valid.
 
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justjess

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Thunderian said:
Do you have anything I can read that spells it out? I’ve found nothing and I’m very curious about this.
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I can try to look for you. I didn’t screenshot it at the time and I didn’t end up sending in a ballot or voting at all. I’ll look around on google and see if I can find anything.
 
Thunderian

Thunderian

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justjess said:
So I just read the PA constitution and it specifically allows for the legislature to have control over voting procedures. It says nothing about having to amend the constitution first. And the section on absentee voting is actually way more inclusive in its language then what is being alleged. I attached the relevant portions here.
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The fact that they spell out the circumstances whereby a qualified voter is able to vote an absentee ballot means that any other reasons would have to be included by amendment. That’s how constitutions generally work. If it’s not explicit in the constitution — and there’s no apparent pandemic clause in the PA constitution— it means an amendment is necessary to make it so.
 
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justjess

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Thunderian said:
The fact that they spell out the circumstances whereby a qualified voter is able to vote an absentee ballot means that any other reasons would have to be included by amendment. That’s how constitutions generally work. If it’s not explicit in the constitution — and there’s no apparent pandemic clause in the PA constitution— it means an amendment is necessary to make it so.
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Look at the first screenshot. It gives power to the legislature over elections. The only constitutional piece on absentee voting demands the legislature make available a way to vote for people who can not Vote in person and the language used to describe reasons is way more inclusive then the five point bullet list being floated around. If changes to voting had to be done through constitutional amendments then all changes to voting going all the way back to 1969 would be in dispute. They aren’t. They aren’t because the constitution gave control over voting procedure to the legislature.

read 4 in the first thumbnail and the first sentence of the section on absentee voting in the second.
 
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justjess

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Thunderian said:
It’s my understanding that Republicans voted for it with the expectation that it would progress to a constitutional amendment. Republicans voting for something doesn’t nullify the Pennsylvania state constitution, does it?

I have to say I’m a bit baffled by your continued argument on this. The constitution seems pretty clear that, without an amendment, absentee ballots that are cast for any reason other than those permitted by the constitution are null. No amendment was passed, so the votes aren’t valid.
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That isn’t what the constitution says. Did you read it or did you read a conservative opinion article regarding it? I posted the relevant sections for you right here.

you would also have to explain why the changes that have occurred to voting in 2015 (and at other points after the writing of the constitution) were never brought up on constitutional challenges.
 
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