Wearing a Mask

Maes17

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Regarding Nazism I admire their toughness but sadly Hitler got too big for his boots and decided to go around invading everybody.
Then came the mega-mistake that finished him, he declared war on America in Dec 41 which was like signing his own death warrant.
If only he'd kept his trap shut and concentrated on conquering Russia he'd probably have been alright.. :D

"Before America entered the war I knew we could not win it.
After she entered I knew we could not lose"- Winston Churchill
I like you Tidal. You are that random life of the party
 

elsbet

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Jun 4, 2017
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If you’re going to quote me, please try to keep it in context. My response was related to the poster’s remark about why should we try to contain a disease that affects those, who are primarily over 70 years old.
Are their lives any less valuable due to their age? That was one implication of the question asked and I was seeking clarification.
My country’s government has not yet called for us to wear masks. If they did, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. I don’t really see wearing a mask for a short period of time, to offer protection to another individual/s, as suppression of my rights. I’m an ex-nurse and I have on many occasions been required to wear a mask to protect either myself or someone else, even when the clinical evidence for doing so has not been conclusive.
Life requires us all at one time or another, to give a little and take a little.
I suffered a very sudden and almost fatal illness last year. It has changed my life unrecognisably. Without wanting to sound sanctimonious, it refocuses your mind a little. On at least 3 occasions over the space of a few days, I almost lost my life. I value those dear to me and I understand that others value those dear to them. As a nurse and a parent, I’ve had the privilege to be present when a new life arrives into the world. As a nurse and an individual, I’ve been privileged to be there when life leaves a person. Now, I’ve also had the fear and loneliness of having faced leaving those dearest to me behind. It wasn’t a pleasant experience for them, or for me.
Undoubtedly, I’m not the only person here, who has faced that situation. It will have had a different impact on those who have experienced it.
I live in the knowledge that the catastrophe that almost cost me my life, could strike again at any time. I’m very lucky that a team of neurosurgeons and neuroradiologists were able to take steps to protect me and minimise the risk of it happening again. They have put in place a programme of screening to detect any problems, as soon as they arise. I’m very thankful for that. I don’t have a God-given right to that protection but I live in a country with free health care and some of the top neurosurgeons in the world. I’m blessed. People just 20 or 30 years ago (or in other less developed countries now) didn’t have the same chance of survival as me. Even now, 60% of people with my condition, won’t make it to hospital - 50% of those who do will die in the first 20 days. Yet, here I am, typing this now.
Excuse me, if my right to not wear a face mask isn’t a pressing priority. If I am required to wear one, it is a small price to pay for keeping others safe - even if the clinical evidence for doing so isn’t proven. If doing so, protects just one person, then it’s worth it.
If any of that makes me weak, so be it. I have bigger battles and bigger demons to fight daily, than whether or not I should wear a face mask. I don’t know about your life but mine has always involved balancing my moral responsibilities to other people, against my needs and rights as an individual. When I was a nurse and I needed to eat some lunch, but a patient in pain needed medication, did I go and eat lunch as was my legal right, or did I get them their medication and forego lunch? When my child had a bad dream and wanted to come into my bed at night, did I send her away knowing that if I let her in I wasn’t going to sleep or did I bring her in beside me? If my government asks me to wear a mask outdoors because doing so might protect other individuals, do I refuse to do so because I consider it as a breach of my rights or do I consider the safety of others?
If not giving a thought to my rights when others require protection, makes me a weak person, then so be it. Wearing a mask won’t harm me but not wearing it might harm others.
If you’re afraid that by giving into your government once, risks them taking more and more from you the next time, so be it. You’re entitled to believe that.Sometimes however, you have to pick your battles and only you can decide when it’s the right time to do so. You have to live with your decision and thanks for your concern, but I have to live with mine.
That is certainly unfortunate.

It has always struck me as odd, though-- how decades of medical experience seem to be inaccessible to professionals, when someone dear to them may be in danger.

Logically, we think they would be better equipped to handle such things-- but they're not. The professional disconnect they have with their patients isn't there. They are-- if they are honest with themselves-- just like everyone else. That is, they are going to lead with fear and emotion; not facts. But...
... even if the clinical evidence for doing so isn’t proven. ... even when the clinical evidence for doing so has not been conclusive.

At least you were honest about it. Twice, strangely enough.

...
 

Maes17

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Yes they say anti vax in a bad way. They also admit that there are side effects and vaccine harms. They justify this by saying the risk/reward is great enough that the small percentage that will be harmed are worth it for the general good. But the fact that there are side effects and risk of harm isn’t hidden... that’s why you have to sign all those papers whenever your kid gets a vaccine - it’s literally right in the papers.
Aye yup.
I remember them papers. Some vaccines are mandatory to start school etc.

I’m not necessarily anti vax. But I’m also not for vaccines.

Just like anything in life it’s a 50/50 risk.
Depending on how simple you look at it. Good or bad.

I think individuals/parents should be able to research and base their own conclusions on how to move with taking vaccines
 

Hon33

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Jan 5, 2020
Messages
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I actually had zero intention of arguing with you about vaccines.. at this point I have completely forgot my point, however I know that wasn’t it. I’m not anti vaccine, I am anti corona vaccine because I’m not putting something in my body with no long term data however that was absolutely not where I was going with that. The original reason I posted it was via/verse masks but I’m not going to go back and try to reword things because there is no point. Everyone’s mind is made up here (And everywhere else) so i guess let the chips fall where they may.
I didn’t mean to imply you were going to argue with me.
 
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
4,060
Regarding Nazism I admire their toughness but sadly Hitler got too big for his boots and decided to go around invading everybody.
Then came the mega-mistake that finished him, he declared war on America in Dec 41 which was like signing his own death warrant.
If only he'd kept his trap shut and concentrated on conquering Russia he'd probably have been alright.. :D

"Before America entered the war I knew we could not win it.
After she entered I knew we could not lose"- Winston Churchill
I’m surprised Bert hasn’t warranted death threats at you for this. Maybe he’s in a straight jacket in the institution
 
Joined
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Messages
4,060
I didn’t threaten anyone this time lol. Tidal is garbage but at least he is honest garbage. You try and pretend to be something else.
Yeah I pretend by never doing what your accusing me of, you fcking psycho. Tidal just said he admired them. I wonder if you even remember what you said. How many mental illnesses have you been diagnosed with?
 

Hon33

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Messages
806
Yeah I pretend by never doing what your accusing me of, you fcking psycho. Tidal just said he admired them. I wonder if you even remember what you said. How many mental illnesses have you been diagnosed with?
Why do people on these forums always use mental illness as an insult?
I’ve had all kinds of insults made about my mental health, or lack thereof on other threads.
For a bunch of people who consider themselves to be enlightened, there’s certainly a lot of “unenlightened” thought.
 

Tidal

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I didn’t threaten anyone this time lol. Tidal is garbage but at least he is honest garbage. You try and pretend to be something else.

Steady on mate, I hear you're a neo-nazi so surely you haven't got a beef against me and my Waffen-SS jacket? (below)

 

Aero

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Mar 13, 2017
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This thread is getting a bit ridiculous.

Either way, there's no real science behind the asymptomatic carrier theory. People are just guessing based on positive cases. If a person is not sick, there are zero reasons for them to wear a mask.

The "droplet" theory again isn't based on science. It's another guess. It's based on the fact that a face-covering does block "visible" droplets. So great a mask will stop droplets, hopefully, science will let us know when they figure out if that translates to stopping this virus. (Don't hold your breath).

I'm not going to be lulled into a false sense of security. In Ohio we are over a month into the mask craze. We have been social distancing for 3 fucking months, yet every day there are like 500 more positive cases. Basically, if social distancing didn't work, how the fuck is wearing masks going to work? I mean come on.

In Ohio 100 more people just died from Covid-19. Despite most people here trying to do the right thing. So excuse me for not listening to some random do-gooders. Like, keep telling yourselves you are "saving lives". As long as your always "saving" people in your head, that's all that really matters right?
 

Hon33

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Jan 5, 2020
Messages
806
This thread is getting a bit ridiculous.

Either way, there's no real science behind the asymptomatic carrier theory. People are just guessing based on positive cases. If a person is not sick, there are zero reasons for them to wear a mask.

The "droplet" theory again isn't based on science. It's another guess. It's based on the fact that a face-covering does block "visible" droplets. So great a mask will stop droplets, hopefully, science will let us know when they figure out if that translates to stopping this virus. (Don't hold your breath).

I'm not going to be lulled into a false sense of security. In Ohio we are over a month into the mask craze. We have been social distancing for 3 fucking months, yet every day there are like 500 more positive cases. Basically, if social distancing didn't work, how the fuck is wearing masks going to work? I mean come on.

In Ohio 100 more people just died from Covid-19. Despite most people here trying to do the right thing. So excuse me for not listening to some random do-gooders. Like, keep telling yourselves you are "saving lives". As long as your always "saving" people in your head, that's all that really matters right?
So you don’t believe that there are symptomatic carriers? What about presymptomatic carriers? You do understand there are some viruses which shed in the prodromal phase and some which do not. Therefore, based on the behaviour of -some viruses there is every reason to believe Covid-19 can spread in either asymptomatic or presymptomatic phases.
Also, because the severity of symptoms vary hugely, it is possible that people may not even be particularly aware they have the condition. If you don’t know you have the virus, you can’t take precautions to minimise spreading it? That’s why people are being urged to socially isolate, wear masks etc. I mean, it really isn’t rocket science.
I know it’s a huge inconvenience to some people but it seems reasonable to me, to presume that asymptomatic transmission is a possibility until it is categorically ruled out.
As for the US? The reason the cases are continuing to rise despite mask wearing and social isolation is possibly because you’re just not doing it effectively there. The US is playing at social isolation, while your President plays fast and loose with people’s lives - humiliating himself daily, in the process! Meanwhile, his supporters follow blindly on!
 

polymoog

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Jun 17, 2017
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If you don’t know you have the virus, you can’t take precautions to minimise spreading it? That’s why people are being urged to socially isolate, wear masks etc. I mean, it really isn’t rocket science.
i wont take any precautions at all, since i never do with the regular, yearly flu.
no one dies of corona. they die WITH corona. if someone is at risk (like they would be with the yearly flu), they can isolate themselves accordingly. personal responsibility is a wonderful thing to practice.
 

Hon33

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i wont take any precautions at all, since i never do with the regular, yearly flu.
no one dies of corona. they die WITH corona. if someone is at risk (like they would be with the yearly flu), they can isolate themselves accordingly. personal responsibility is a wonderful thing to practice.
That’s your choice.
However, you should be aware that the old “you want die of it, you’ll die with it...” is a concept which is not entirely accurate and often borne out of complacency.
If you understand disease processes at all, you will understand that there are primary and secondary causes of death.
People with Covid-19 may die of multi-organ failure, pneumonia, stroke, cardiac disease. These will be secondary to Covid-19. The determining factor of whether you die with it or of it will be whether or not you would have at that particular time , as a result of that particular secondary cause, if Covid-19, had not been your primary diagnosis.
For people who have underlying health issues, this may be a grey area. However, for an alarming percentage of otherwise healthy individuals, the answer will be no, in all likelihood they would not have died at that time, for that reason if they had not had Covid-19 as a primary diagnosis. I mean, I don’t know how medics can be any more clear about that.
If that is a risk you are willing to take, more fool you!
A close family friend currently has asked for prayer for their daughter-in-law who is critically ill in ICU. She is about 38 yrs old, with no significant underlying health problems. She has been in hospital for a week and was set to be discharged today. As is a frequently recurring pattern, her condition deteriorated suddenly overnight and she is now very, very ill in ICU. Her husband, a healthy 40 yr old, has tested positive with mild symptoms. Their children are asymptomatic and have tested positive.
A close friend of my aunt’s is 60 and being cared for in a nursing home with a long term, chronic health problem which put him at high risk. He tested positive in a routine screen, 4 weeks ago and had mild-moderate symptoms. He has made a very pleasing recovery so far - although he is not entirely out of the woods.
Another friend’s six month old granddaughter developed a rash that had been seen in young children with Covid-19. Her inflammatory markers are all raised. She has tested positive for Covid-19, although neither of her parents have. She has been quite poorly in hospital but has no respiratory symptoms.
This is not a predictable condition and we know little of how it really behaves yet. As someone else said, this is not flu.
By all means, don’t take any precautions whatsoever. That’s your right to do so. Know however that while you choose to do so, people are absolutely dying of Covid-19, rather than with it.
Personal responsibility is a wonderful thing but sometimes we owe each other more than that.
 

Lil axe

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May 11, 2020
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wonder what the reaction would be to wearing a halloween mask, its a mask, ones i own, the mouth and nose are covered with material, i'd definitely wear my masks, go all slipknot
 

polymoog

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This is not a predictable condition and we know little of how it really behaves yet. As someone else said, this is not flu.
By all means, don’t take any precautions whatsoever. That’s your right to do so. Know however that while you choose to do so, people are absolutely dying of Covid-19, rather than with it.
no one has denied that people are dying, but anyone who has done any research knows that the numbers are inaccurate. we will have to agree to disagree with my assertion that people die with corona, not of it. you can undoubtedly stick a bunch of doctors supporting your view and i can do the same, even with YT suppressing their talks.


Personal responsibility is a wonderful thing but sometimes we owe each other more than that.
like turning the world upside down to protect 0.4% (or less) of the at risk population?
 
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