Coronavirus

[Aero]

Good ideas.

I think that one could argue that Covid-19 could be considered a disability. So that opens the door to suing employers for violating the "Americans with Disabilities Act".

 

[Lurker]

My daughters head just almost exploded because the words to the song were wrong lmao

Legit laugh.

 

[justjess]

Good ideas.

I think that one could argue that Covid-19 could be considered a disability. So that opens the door to suing employers for violating the "Americans with Disabilities Act".

From the proposals ive read employers want (and trump plans to give them) release of liability from all covid related matters

I’m not sure how you could classify covid as a disability since even MS usually doesn’t count, but even if you could.. any lawsuit whatsoever would be null and void if this proposal goes through - and I’m pretty sure it’s going to go through.

 

[Thunderian]

I just want to follow this up.. OSHA has very clear guidelines/regulations about certain identifiable communicable diseases and how they need to be handled once knowledge of exposure occurs. So we already do hold employers/companies accountable in regards to fatal communicable diseases. Creating an exception here... why?

Are there OSHA guidelines for this coronavirus? Seems kind of quick to be creating exceptions to laws that don’t even exist yet. Is that what’s happening? Or is this something else?

My thoughts, because I don’t assume Trump’s motivation is always evil, is that this is to safeguard businesses from a bunch of lawsuits that will eventually dismissed because, as has been said, how do you prove where and how someone contracted a disease that’s everywhere? If they are providing what they are legally required to, as far as working conditions and PPE, why would any business be considered at fault if their employees get sick? It’s not like working with asbestos, or in a coal mine, where if you come down with mesothelioma or black lung, it’s a sure thing where you got it from. If you get sick on the bus, at the bank, or from someone you know who’s sick, why would your boss be on the hook? If anyone who gets sick is able to sue their employer, whether they’re at fault or not, businesses won’t be able to afford insurance, and they will close. It’s as simple as that

 

[justjess]

Are there OSHA guidelines for this coronavirus? Seems kind of quick to be creating exceptions to laws that don’t even exist yet. Is that what’s happening? Or is this something else?

My thoughts, because I don’t assume Trump’s motivation is always evil, is that this is to safeguard businesses from a bunch of lawsuits that will eventually dismissed because, as has been said, how do you prove where and how someone contracted a disease that’s everywhere? If they are providing what they are legally required to, as far as working conditions and PPE, why would any business be considered at fault if their employees get sick? It’s not like working with asbestos, or in a coal mine, where if you come down with mesothelioma or black lung, it’s a sure thing where you got it from. If you get sick on the bus, at the bank, or from someone you know who’s sick, why would your boss be on the hook? If anyone who gets sick is able to sue their employer, whether they’re at fault or not, businesses won’t be able to afford insurance, and they will close. It’s as simple as that

There are clearly not OSHA guidlelines for this yet. As previously stated, OSHA was an example because you stated we don’t do this for other diseases.

This proposal is strictly about barring employees from suing their employers for covid related matters. Which means if they don’t provide ppe, limit occupancy... you’re assuming they are doing these things. They aren’t “legally required to” in the vast majority of places and if this goes through employees won’t be able to hold them accountable if they don’t. That’s a problem.

And this is an indication that business itself is quite aware that reopening right now is a risk, if they weren’t they wouldn’t be trying to preemptively absolve themselves from it.

 

[justjess]

@Bertoxxulous interesting union.. I’ll look into it more. I’ve been thinking about trying to organize my industry and contacting SEIU but idk, we are very spread out amongst a bunch of small agencies so it’s not the easiest feat

 

[justjess]

I just want to point out that with the us averaging 2000 deaths a day (some days more, some days less) in order to stay at or less then 60,000 deaths - which is the “new projection” - this disease will have to completely disappear within the next eight days. We are already at 45,000. That isn’t going to happen.

 

[Thunderian]

If we didn’t have to go to work we wouldn’t have exposed ourselves to getting sick, so no matter where we catch it the employer is responsible.

Will you also be able to sue your employer if you’re injured on your way to and from work?

 

[Thunderian]

I just spoke to an ER nurse in Seattle and she says her hospital group is preparing to do elective surgeries again.

 

[justjess]

IWW can help out, they’ll provide organizing materials and training. You can conduct meetings over the phone/internet now a days. Your industry has a lot of leverage. It’s a risk but if now is not the time, then when?

I think I’m going to wait and see what happens when we reopen first but thanks for the tip. I’ll save it.

 

[Thunderian]

They aren’t “legally required to” in the vast majority of places and if this goes through employees won’t be able to hold them accountable if they don’t.

If they aren’t legally required to provide anything, why would they be found liable if they don’t?

 

[Thunderian]

I think commute time should be considered company responsibility,yes. Thats a demand workers should absolutely make.

No one would be able to get insurance for that. It’s just too broad.

 

[justjess]

If they aren’t legally required to provide anything, why would they be found liable if they don’t?

If you are risking your employees lives in the middle of a pandemic and failing to provide them with recommended safety precautions (in the places where they aren’t mandatory) then yeah, you should be liable. If there is an out break at your place of business then yeah your employees should be able to sue you for negligence. If your in a state that mandates it and you still don’t, yeah again your employees should be able to sue you.

What is the problem here? This seems common sense to me. You don’t get to play with people’s lives without accountability.

 

[Thunderian]

If you are risking your employees lives in the middle of a pandemic and failing to provide them with recommended safety precautions (in the places where they aren’t mandatory) then yeah, you should be liable. If there is an out break at your place of business then yeah your employees should be able to sue you for negligence. If your in a state that mandates it and you still don’t, yeah again your employees should be able to sue you.

What is the problem here? This seems common sense to me. You don’t get to play with people’s lives without accountability.

There is no way any business would survive if they are doing all they are legally required to, but are still liable if someone gets sick. It would kill every business in America. The only other option is to keep every business closed until there is a vaccine. Either option kills the economy completely.

 

[Lisa]

Bankrupting companies is suicide.

 

[justjess]

There is no way any business would survive if they are doing all they are legally required to, but are still liable if someone gets sick. It would kill every business in America. The only other option is to keep every business closed until there is a vaccine. Either option kills the economy completely.

Your assuming they are doing all they are required to. Most of the health regulations are guidelines and recommendations, not laws. It takes time to pass laws. They should have to follow guidelines/regulations and we should have a way to hold them liable if they don’t. If recommended capacity is 25% and they push it to 80% and then people get sick that’s a problem. If masks are recommended but they don’t have them for staff or enforce that their customers wear them that’s a problem.

And no, that’s not the only other option. Businesses can open when it’s feasible to do so safely with precautions. If they don’t follow those precautions their employees can hold them liable. Otherwise your sacrificing workers for the bottom line. That’s absurd and immoral.

 

[Maes17]

Will you also be able to sue your employer if you’re injured on your way to and from work?

Good point

 

[justjess]

Good point

Not sure how.. it’s a false equivalence despite @Bertoxxulous zeal for the situation.

Something a bit more comparable - employer makes you go into work in the midst of a blizzard when the state has issued a stay off the road order, or during a tornado warning where you’ve been advised to shelter in place - and you get into a snow/tornado related automobile accident. Then, yeah, you should be able to sue. Otherwise there is no elevated risk during your commute that your employer should know about or be responsible for.

My boss actually did try to make us all come in during a tornado imminent warning last year. No one showed. She couldn’t do a damn thing about it.

 

[Maes17]

Not sure how.. it’s a false equivalence despite @Bertoxxulous zeal for the situation.

Something a bit more comparable - employer makes you go into work in the midst of a blizzard when the state has issued a stay off the road order, or during a tornado warning where you’ve been advised to shelter in place - and you get into a snow/tornado related automobile accident. Then, yeah, you should be able to sue. Otherwise there is no elevated risk during your commute that your employer should know about or be responsible for.

My boss actually did try to make us all come in during a tornado imminent warning last year. No one showed. She couldn’t do a damn thing about it.

Some employers honor more than others. Such is reality. Nothing I nor you can do about it. If businesses want to start to open, might as well test the waters.

The longer businesses stay shut, the more antsy people are going to get. I for one do not want nation wide riots/looting etc if this stays.

We’re going to have to try to move forward as scary as it seems.

 

[Lisa]

Harvard law professor believes homeschooling can be 'dangerous' because it gives parents 'authoritarian control' over their children
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8242579/Harvard-law-professor-calls-homeschooling-dangerous.html