Trump Presenting Peace Plan To Israeli Leaders

[rainerann]

Abbas Admits: The PA is Behind All Terrorism

PLO Chairman Abbas admitted recently that the Palestinian Authority was behind all Arab terrorism in Israel. Unsurprisingly, his admission made the headlines nowhere.

en.mida.org.il

you wish that said what you are implying it does. That is a clear twisting of his words in the headline, and the peace plan addresses releasing prisoners back to Palestine. This is related to what Abbas is talking about and the title is click bait. His statement is no where near what the writer is suggesting. There is a whole section about this in the peace plan since the peace plan makes a distinction between terrorists and the Palestinian people.

you are trying to say that Abbas is behind the actions of hamas and they are actually in opposition with each other. When you have land that becomes new territory, there is often conflict initially. Russia experienced something similar when the ussr was dismantled. A time of transitional leadership can often appear like the wild Wild West as it does in Palestine.

Reopening territory under Palestine can create something of a land grab that produces groups like hamas, but other countries don’t need outside military supervision because of this. Russia didn’t need this. Israel is not even expecting Sudan to prove a certain standard before sending asylum seekers back to Sudan. There is not one country that is expected to accept a peace plan that includes supervisory military control by the country they are in conflict with except Palestine.

if you want to argue that Palestine needs this in order to stabilize as an independent nation, they need a neutral third party to fill this role. Not the country they are in conflict with.

and again, Abbas never says he is funding hamas. He makes a statement admitting that he is funding some of the same people that the peace plan agrees that Israel will release if Palestine accepts the deal. You would know this if you read the peace plan instead of posting some bogus article.

thank you red for already posting the quote that I am referring to that admits that Abbas supports many people who are presently incarcerated in israel. According to the peace plan delivered by the trump administration, these same people will be released if the plan is accepted.

He does not support hamas or terrorism like the headline and thunderian are implying. He has made it no secret that he is firm in his commitment to achieve pre1967 borders. That is not the same as supporting terrorism, but I’m guessing you didn’t look that closely into the quote or read the peace plan before you jumped on the band wagon.

 

[Thunderian]

you wish that said what you are implying it does. That is a clear twisting of his words in the headline, and the peace plan addresses releasing prisoners back to Palestine. This is related to what Abbas is talking about and the title is click bait. His statement is no where near what the writer is suggesting. There is a whole section about this in the peace plan since the peace plan makes a distinction between terrorists and the Palestinian people.

you are trying to say that Abbas is behind the actions of hamas and they are actually in opposition with each other. When you have land that becomes new territory, there is often conflict initially. Russia experienced something similar when the ussr was dismantled. A time of transitional leadership can often appear like the wild Wild West as it does in Palestine.

Reopening territory under Palestine can create something of a land grab that produces groups like hamas, but other countries don’t need outside military supervision because of this. Russia didn’t need this. Israel is not even expecting Sudan to prove a certain standard before sending asylum seekers back to Sudan. There is not one country that is expected to accept a peace plan that includes supervisory military control by the country they are in conflict with except Palestine.

if you want to argue that Palestine needs this in order to stabilize as an independent nation, they need a neutral third party to fill this role. Not the country they are in conflict with.

and again, Abbas never says he is funding hamas. He makes a statement admitting that he is funding some of the same people that the peace plan agrees that Israel will release if Palestine accepts the deal. You would know this if you read the peace plan instead of posting some bogus article.

thank you red for already posting the quote that I am referring to that admits that Abbas supports many people who are presently incarcerated in israel. According to the peace plan delivered by the trump administration, these same people will be released if the plan is accepted.

He does not support hamas or terrorism like the headline and thunderian are implying. He has made it no secret that he is firm in his commitment to achieve pre1967 borders. That is not the same as supporting terrorism, but I’m guessing you didn’t look that closely into the quote or read the peace plan before you jumped on the band wagon.

How is it not supporting terror to pay out hundreds of millions of dollars each year to terrorists, and their families, as payment for deadly attacks against Jewish civilians?

Palestinian Terror Payments: Pay For Slay | HonestReporting

What would you call an organization that pays hundreds of thousands of dollars to reward a teenager who takes a knife from his family’s kitchen and

honestreporting.com

 

[rainerann]

How is it not supporting terror to pay out hundreds of millions of dollars each year to terrorists, and their families, as payment for deadly attacks against Jewish civilians?

Palestinian Terror Payments: Pay For Slay | HonestReporting

What would you call an organization that pays hundreds of thousands of dollars to reward a teenager who takes a knife from his family’s kitchen and

honestreporting.com

Your making more comments that you can’t support. They are not paid for making deadly attacks as though they were hired for this. Their families are supported even when they act rashly in their effort to support the resistance of the occupation. They are not being recruited with a monetary reward as an incentive. They are supported in the interim within a region that is recognizably experiencing conflict on a regular basis as a result of the continued occupation. You have twisted things again.

the article is referencing an organization called the Palestinian authority martyrs fund.

a description of this organization.


“The Palestinian Martyrs’ Fund is a financial service operated by the Palestinian Authority for supporting the families of Palestinians killed, injured or imprisoned by Israeli forces. This includes Palestinians involved in attacks, assisting attacks or planning attacks against Israeli armed forces or civilians.

The Palestinian Authority (PA) states that a Palestinian prisoner is "anyone imprisoned in the occupation's [Israel's] prisons as a result of his participation in the struggle against the occupation" (Ch. 1 of Law of Prisoners, 2004/19).

The fund also provides a smaller monthly stipend to all Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails regardless of alleged or convicted crime. The fund was created by the Palestinian political party ‘Fatah’ in 1967 to support the widows and orphans of the ‘Palestinian Fedayeen’. The Fedayeen were guerrillas fighting against Israeli occupation forces; considered “freedom fighters” by most Palestinians and “terrorists” by most Israelis.

The fund was replaced in 1971 by the Society for the Care of Palestinian Martyrs and Prisoners - to include fighters who died of natural causes while on active service and a one-off payment to any Palestinian killed during an encounter with Israeli forces. This led to numerous cases of families posthumously classifying their deceased relatives as “fighters” so as to receive the payment.

How much does it pay?
In 2016, the fund made payments to approximately 35,000 families from a budget of $170 million. The highest monthly stipend is more than the average Palestinian wage and the amount is calculated according to the cost-of-living index.
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, and leader of the Fatah party, withdrew (then reinstated in 2009) payments/subsidies to prisoners belonging to the Palestinian Liberation Organisation. The current government asserts that payments are not made to members of Hamas or any extreme Islamic group.”

The Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund explained

What is it? The Palestinian Martyrs’ Fund is a financial service operated by the Palestinian Authority for supporting the families of Palestinians killed, injured or imprisoned by Israeli forces. This...

www.welcometopalestine.com

so basically I will repeat what I have already said again. It is no secret that Abbas opposes the occupation and wants pre1967 borders. The fund provides for prisoners and families in their struggle against occupation. From an American perspective, there is nothing wrong with this. A man convicted of murder is also provided with legal council paid for by the state. We provide welfare to their families as well.

Palestine providing families and prisoners, even when they would have acted rashly, is not really all that different from paying for murderers to get a fair trial in the us and providing their families with food stamps and other forms of welfare. In fact, it suggests that Abbas is a rather modern thinking leader and does not operate as a dictator. He is an incredibly intelligent man. This is a fairly modern approach to government to provide even for the guilty. It is technically a Christian approach as well.

so I don’t see anything wrong with this. He is not calling these people on the phone to tell them to get themselves imprisoned because he has money to take care of their families. These actions are independent and as a fair leader that recognizes the struggles of the occupation, he is merciful towards them and their families. I fully and completely support their families not being punished because of things like this even if their family member is guilty of acting rashly.

he has made several comments opposing terrorism and hamas and this fund does not support them. So you are exaggerating again and ignoring much of what I say to continue returning to the pitch that all Palestine are terrorists, but this is typical of you.

I will repeat again, the peace plan recognizes this fund as support for prisoners by agreeing to release them, making a distinction between Palestinians and terrorists. If Abbas were to accept this plan, the people who are imprisoned and receiving funds from it, would be released because there is a distinction between them and groups like hamas.

I think this will conclude my participation in this discussion for now. I’m tired of repeating myself.

 

[Thunderian]

This includes Palestinians involved in attacks, assisting attacks or planning attacks against Israeli armed forces or civilians.

And you still say that Abbas, who is the highest authority in the PA and the PLO, doesn’t support terror? What exactly do you think an attack against civilians is?

 

[UnderAlienControl]

Israelis accuse US of election meddling with timing of Trump ‘peace plan’

Half of Israelis believe US President Donald Trump’s decision to unveil his “peace plan” last week was designed to tip the scales in favor of sitting PM Benjamin Netanyahu in the upcoming election, a new poll reveals.

www.rt.com

Bibi's Ally Says Kushner Stabbed Netanyahu in the Back With Peace Plan

Late last week, the Arab League unanimously rejected US President Donald Trump’s Middle East plan, calling it “unfair” to Palestinians. Jared Kushner, for his part, said that he had put “a real offer on the table to break the logjam".

sputniknews.com

 

[Thunderian]

Evidence that, as recently as this past December, Abbas was supporting Hamas terrorists as well.

PA daily publishes FB post that praises PA for paying "thousands of Palestinian fighters" regardless of affiliation
Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, official PA daily | Dec 1, 2019

Image published on the back page of the official PA daily

The image shows a Facebook post including two images.

Text of Facebook post: “I thank the PA for paying the salaries of my brother the Martyr from Hamas, Ghazi Al-Haimouni (PMW was unable to determine the nature of his death –Ed.), and of my brother the prisoner from Fatah, Mutaz Al-Haimouni (i.e., terrorist, planned murder of 6), for dozens of years and without any break similarly to tens of thousands of Palestinian fighters, without regard for the faction with which they are affiliated.”

The post includes an image of Ghazi Al-Haimouni on the right and of Mutaz Al-Haimouni on the left.

Text on image on left: “Prisoner Mutaz Al-Haimouni
April 25, 2002

Sentenced to 6 life sentences and an additional 20 years”

Text on image on right: “Martyr Ghazi Al-Haimouni
Oct. 7, 1994”

Mutaz Al-Haimouni – terrorist and Tanzim (Fatah terror faction) member who planned suicide bomber Andalib Takatka’s attack near Jerusalem’s Mahane Yehuda outdoor market, in which she murdered 6 people and wounded over 80 others on April 12, 2002. Al-Haimouni is serving 6 life sentences and an additional 20 years.

———————

Here we read about some Hamas terrorists who are protesting the PLO for withholding their salaries. If Abbas doesn’t support Hamas terrorists, what the hell are they talking about? In fact, there are thousands of Hamas terrorists who get a regular salary from Abbas and the PLO.

Head of PLO prisoners' commission explains why released Hamas prisoners have not received their salaries | PMW Translations

"The Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs Law does not distinguish between prisoners of Hamas, Fatah, or any other faction"

palwatch.org

Abbas supports terrorists from multiple terror organizations, including Hamas. It’s beyond comprehension to see anyone calling him a man of peace, or denying that he is a terrorist.

The Palestinians have a sick welfare system that encourages desperate Palestinians to choose evil over human decency, and to kill innocent Jews for money. The program operated by the PLO and Hamas is also used to support the families of men and women who are fairly innocently caught up in the violence, but Israel says that about a third of the Palestinian prisoners they hold are there for murdering Jews. They are terrorists who are paid by the Palestinian authorities.

Along with an annual salary, these murderers get a bonus for each Jew they kill. Two young Palestinian cousins cashed in a few years ago when they found a mother and father asleep along with three of their children. They stabbed them while they slept, decapitating the four month old baby. I say they cashed in because not only did they get the death bonuses, but Israel merely gave them life in prison, and each month they cash a PLO cheque, signed by Mahmoud Abbas. They did it for the money.

By incentivizing murder, Abbas puts a bounty on the head of every Jewish man, woman and child. It’s pretty sick to support that in any kind of fashion, or to dismiss it as some sort of reasonable reaction to occupation or land disputes.

 

[Daciple]

Why is Israel neither here nor there for you?

Because I am neither a Zionist nor a Pre Mill Dispensationalist. I reject your interpretation of Prophecy as it didnt exist until the 1800's.

Eventually...at the right time, someone will get Israel to sign a peace treaty and then the temple will be rebuilt and sacrifices reinstated for 7 years. I don’t know that it will be trump that makes it happen. Prince William in England is also interested in peace there..if that means anything

According to Pre Mill Pre Trib Dispensationalism, but as I said that ideology literally didnt exist as you believe it until the 1800's so since I dont think the entire History of the Church was incorrect on their Eschatology for thousands of years, I find it hard to believe that some dude in the 1800's got it all correct. That is literally what you and everyone who thinks like you actually believes, that billions of believers in Christ for over one thousand eight hundred years had no idea how to correctly interpret the Bible, but then one guy in the 1800's came along who magically knew it all and he is correct while everyone else is wrong.

The State that claimed the name Israel, created by literal AntiChrists who outright say they want a New World Order, that stands on that piece of land in the Middle East, isnt the Biblical Israel. That State, created by New World Order Antichrists, is literally a spite to Jesus Christ, as He specifically stated they are to remain desolate until they proclaim Him as Christ. That State has exactly zero to do with the Bible, and if it does the most we can say about it, is that it is the State that will usher in the AntiChrist himself, and yet we watch Christians freaking support it no matter what.

I personally am not to up on supporting the State that was created by literal AntiChrist, for the sole purpose of using it to bring about the New World Order, that if it has anything to do with the Bible is there only to be the place that the AntiChrist is going to conduct his business from to murder and kill Christians. Seems stupid to root for and support the State that Satan is supposedly going to be running, but hey that guy in 1800s really knew how to get his message out and the Synagogue of Satan loved how it so easily has allowed them to co opt Christianity, to get Christians to support Satan outright...

But hey to each their own on Eschatology, Ill just sit here and praise Jesus and preach the Gospel till the World Ends in whatever manner He chooses it to end when He comes back...

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

What did the first century church fathers believe about the Rapture?

Were they pre-tribulation or post-tribulation?

What did the disciples of the Apostles of Jesus Christ teach about the Rapture?

This article will present the writings of the early church fathers – from those who learned under the disciples of Jesus Christ, to the church leaders of the second and third centuries, on the Rapture – the supernatural removal of all Bible-believing Christians from Earth to enter Heaven. While the writings of the first, second and third century Christian church fathers are not Scripture and not on par with the Bible in any way, it is informative to see how the early church leaders interpreted Scripture in addition to what the learned directly from those closest to The Lord Jesus Christ. And definitively, the few writings still in existence on the end times, put the timing of the Rapture before the Great Tribulation. This article will also serve to dispel some of the common misconceptions about Rapture theology as being something invented in the 19th century by a man named John Darby.

https://beginningandend.com/what-did-ancient-church-fathers-believe-about-the-rapture/

 

[rainerann]

"Presser expected to take place next week while discussions over US proposal are held in UNSC

Former Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert is set to join Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas for a press conference about the US Mideast peace plan, Hebrew-language Channel 12 reported.

Citing unnamed senior Palestinian officials, the report says that Olmert is expected to express his objection against the peace proposal, while reiterating his claim that he was on the verge of signing an agreement with the Palestinians towards the end of his tenure.

According to Channel 12, the press conference will take place next week at the same time when discussions over the Trump peace proposal will be held by the UN Security Council in New York.

The report did not mention where the presser is poised to take place, but it was reported last week that the Palestinian president will visit the UN to address the Security Council on his rejection of the new Israeli-Palestinian plan in the coming weeks.

This is a developing story"

i24NEWS

www.i24news.tv

 

[Lisa]

Because I am neither a Zionist nor a Pre Mill Dispensationalist. I reject your interpretation of Prophecy as it didnt exist until the 1800's.



According to Pre Mill Pre Trib Dispensationalism, but as I said that ideology literally didnt exist as you believe it until the 1800's so since I dont think the entire History of the Church was incorrect on their Eschatology for thousands of years, I find it hard to believe that some dude in the 1800's got it all correct. That is literally what you and everyone who thinks like you actually believes, that billions of believers in Christ for over one thousand eight hundred years had no idea how to correctly interpret the Bible, but then one guy in the 1800's came along who magically knew it all and he is correct while everyone else is wrong.

The State that claimed the name Israel, created by literal AntiChrists who outright say they want a New World Order, that stands on that piece of land in the Middle East, isnt the Biblical Israel. That State, created by New World Order Antichrists, is literally a spite to Jesus Christ, as He specifically stated they are to remain desolate until they proclaim Him as Christ. That State has exactly zero to do with the Bible, and if it does the most we can say about it, is that it is the State that will usher in the AntiChrist himself, and yet we watch Christians freaking support it no matter what.

I personally am not to up on supporting the State that was created by literal AntiChrist, for the sole purpose of using it to bring about the New World Order, that if it has anything to do with the Bible is there only to be the place that the AntiChrist is going to conduct his business from to murder and kill Christians. Seems stupid to root for and support the State that Satan is supposedly going to be running, but hey that guy in 1800s really knew how to get his message out and the Synagogue of Satan loved how it so easily has allowed them to co opt Christianity, to get Christians to support Satan outright...

But hey to each their own on Eschatology, Ill just sit here and praise Jesus and preach the Gospel till the World Ends in whatever manner He chooses it to end when He comes back...

I think the closer to the end you are the better you can see what the Bible is talking about. Like the mark, the temple being rebuilt, nations rising against nations, how in the world will everyone be able to see the 2 witnesses and earthquakes in diverse places. We come closer to seeing how all those things are possibilities.

I think it’s sad and amazing when Christians don’t understand Israel is in the end times..it’s clearly there in scripture. There will be a new temple built and sacrifices and it will probably take a treaty to get that done since they will want to put it on the Temple Mount..and after 3.5 years the anti puts an end to the treaty, steps into the Holy of Holies proclaims himself god and that sets off the Jews running for their lives. And honestly if the Jews were Christians they would never build this temple..so it does figure into scripture that they would be unbelieving.

What dude in the 1800’s are ya talking about?

You really shouldn’t stick your head in the sand to end times prophecy but be on the alert...but to each their own.

 

[Lisa]

An eating contest! By the pool! In Gaza!

Meanwhile in Iran....
The Islamic Republic's New Starvation Rules
A military advisor to Iran’s Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei has said Iranians should fast Ramadan-style to show “the enemy” they can resist its sanctions. In other words: The less you eat, the stronger you will become.

The Islamic Republic's New Starvation Rules - Frontpagemag

The Mullahs instruct their people to eat less.

www.frontpagemag.com

 

[Thunderian]

Meanwhile in Iran....
The Islamic Republic's New Starvation Rules
A military advisor to Iran’s Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei has said Iranians should fast Ramadan-style to show “the enemy” they can resist its sanctions. In other words: The less you eat, the stronger you will become.

The Islamic Republic's New Starvation Rules - Frontpagemag

The Mullahs instruct their people to eat less.

www.frontpagemag.com

They should move to Gaza.

 

[Lisa]

They should move to Gaza.

Maybe so

 

[UnderAlienControl]

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

Netanyahu Says Extension of Sovereignty Over West Bank Will Come ‘as Soon as We Win’ Elections

Trump’s Middle East peace deal, which was unveiled on 28 January and vehemently rejected by Palestinians, specifically stipulates that Israel extend its sovereignty over parts of the West Bank, including those located in the strategic...

sputniknews.com

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Responding to the Channel 12 report later on Thursday, US President Donald Trump’s son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner criticized Olmert and Abbas.

“I find it almost pathetic when they criticize people’s efforts to try to solve it, because it comes from a lot of jealousy that they couldn’t get it done themselves,” Kushner told reporters after briefing UN Security Council members on the peace plan.

Olmert, he added, should help the plan rather than “trying to grab a headline when you’re irrelevant.”

As for Abbas, Kushner said that the PA chairman is responsible for the recent violence in Israel.

"He does have a responsibility for it," Kushner said, adding, "He calls for days of rage in response and he said that even before he saw the plan.”

"I think that he was surprised with how good the plan was for the Palestinian people but he locked himself into a position before it came out and I don't know why he did that," continued Kushner.

"There is a long history of the Palestinian leadership paying the families of terrorists, inciting intifadas when they don't get their way," he continued. "I just think the international community has grown very tired of that behavior."

Source

 

[Kung Fu]

I don't believe that you aren't Jewish. All you do is shill for them

His views have definitely changed since the last year and it all started when there was a thread about the Protocols made. He's either trolling and trying to piss off people who hold an anti-Zionist view or he couldn't take the fact that people were waking up to this Zionist world government bullshit. His true colours really did finally come out.

 

[rainerann]

"

AMY GOODMAN: When you say that Israel could end the violence by ending the occupation, Israel says it does not occupy Gaza, that it left years ago. I wanted to play a clip for you from MSNBC. It was last week, and the host, Joy Reid, was interviewing the Israeli spokesperson, Mark Regev.

MARK REGEV: Listen, if you’ll allow me to, I want to take issue with one important word you said. You said Israel is the occupying authority. You’re forgetting Israel pulled out of the Gaza Strip. We took down all the settlements, and the settlers who didn’t want to leave, we forced them to leave. We pulled back to the 1967 international frontier. There is no Israeli occupation of the Gaza Strip. We haven’t been there for some eight years.

AMY GOODMAN: Henry Siegman, can you respond?

HENRY SIEGMAN: OK, yeah. That is of course utter nonsense, and for several reasons. First of all, Gaza is controlled completely, like the West Bank, because it is totally surrounded by Israel. Israel could not be imposing the kind of chokehold it has on Gaza if it were not surrounding, if its military were not surrounding Gaza, and not just on the territory, but also on the air, on the sea. No one there can make a move without coming into contact with the Israeli IDF, you know, outside this imprisoned area where Gazans live. So, there’s no one I have encountered, who is involved with international law, who’s ever suggested to me that in international law Gaza is not considered occupied. So that’s sheer nonsense.

But there’s another point triggered by your question to me, and this is the propaganda machine, and these official spokespeople will always tell you, “Take a look at what kind of people these are. Here we turned over Gaza to them. And you’d think they would invest their energies in building up the area, making it a model government and model economy. Instead, they’re working on rockets.” The implication here is that they, in effect, offered Palestinians a mini state, and they didn’t take advantage of it, so the issue isn’t really Palestinian statehood. That is the purpose of this kind of critique.

And I have always asked myself, and this has a great deal to do with my own changing views about the policies of governments, not about the Jewish state qua Jewish state, but of the policies pursued by Israeli governments and supported—you know, they say Israel is a model democracy in the Middle East, so you must assume—the public has to assume some responsibility for what the government does, because they put governments in place. So, the question I ask myself: What if the situation were reversed? You know, there is a Talmudic saying in Pirkei Avot, The Ethics of the Fathers: ”Al tadin et chavercha ad shetagiah lemekomo,” “Don’t judge your neighbor until you can imagine yourself in his place.” So, my first question when I deal with any issue related to the Israeli-Palestinian issue: What if we were in their place?

What if the situation were reversed, and the Jewish population were locked into, were told, “Here, you have less than 2 percent of Palestine, so now behave. No more resistance. And let us deal with the rest”? Is there any Jew who would have said this is a reasonable proposition, that we cease our resistance, we cease our effort to establish a Jewish state, at least on one-half of Palestine, which is authorized by the U.N.? Nobody would agree to that. They would say this is absurd. So the expectations that Palestinians—and I’m speaking now about the resistance as a concept; I’m not talking about rockets, whether they were justified or not. They’re not. I think that sending rockets that are going to kill civilians is a crime. But for Palestinians to try, in any way they can, to end this state of affair—and to expect of them to end their struggle and just focus on less than 2 percent to build a country is absurd. That is part of—that’s propaganda, but it’s not a discussion of either politics or morality.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: One of the things that’s repeated most often is, the problem with the Palestinian unity government is, of course, that Hamas is now part of it, and Hamas is considered a terrorist organization by Israel and also by the United States. I’d just like to read you a short quote from an article that you wrote in 2009 in the London Review of Books. You said, “Hamas is no more a 'terror organisation' … than the Zionist movement was during its struggle for a Jewish homeland. In the late 1930s and 1940s, parties within the Zionist movement resorted to terrorist activities for strategic reasons.” Could you elaborate on that and what you see as the parallels between the two?

HENRY SIEGMAN: Well, I’m glad I said that. In fact, I repeated it in a letter to The New York Times the other day, a week or two ago. The fact is that Israel had, pre-state—in its pre-state stage, several terrorist groups that did exactly what Hamas does today. I don’t mean they sent rockets, but they killed innocent people. And they did that in an even more targeted way than these rockets do. Benny Morris published a book that is considered the Bible on that particular period, the war of—

AMY GOODMAN: The Israeli historian.

HENRY SIEGMAN: Sorry?

AMY GOODMAN: The Israeli historian, Benny Morris.

HENRY SIEGMAN: The Israeli historian, right, then in the book Righteous Victims, in which he said—I recall, when I read it, I was shocked—in which he—particularly in his most recently updated book, which was based on some new information that the Israel’s Defense—the IDF finally had to open up and publish, that Israeli generals received direct instructions from Ben-Gurion during the War of Independence to kill civilians, or line them up against the wall and shoot them, in order to help to encourage the exodus, that in fact resulted, of 700,000 Palestinians, who were driven out of their—left their homes, and their towns and villages were destroyed. This was terror, even within not just the terrorist groups, the pre-state terrorists, but this is within the military, the Israeli military, that fought the War of Independence. And in this recent book, that has received so much public attention by Ari—you know, My Promised Land."

AMY GOODMAN: Shavit.

HENRY SIEGMAN: Ari Shavit. He describes several such incidents, too. And incidentally, one of the people who—according to Benny Morris, one of the people who received these orders—and they were oral orders, but he, in his book, describes why he believes that these orders were given, were given to none other than Rabin, who was not a general then, but he—and that he executed these orders.

AMY GOODMAN: Meaning?

HENRY SIEGMAN: Meaning?

AMY GOODMAN: What did it mean that he executed these orders, Rabin?

HENRY SIEGMAN: That he executed civilians. And the rationale given for this when Shavit, some years ago, had an interview with Benny Morris and said to him, “My God, you are saying that there was deliberate ethnic cleansing here?” And Morris said, “Yes, there was.” And he says, “And you justify it?” And he said, “Yes, because otherwise there would not have been a state.” And Shavit did not follow up. And that was one of my turning points myself, when I saw that. He would not follow up and say, “Well, if that is a justification, the struggle for statehood, why can’t Palestinians do that? What’s wrong with Hamas? Why are they demonized if they do what we did?”

Henry Siegman, Leading Voice of U.S. Jewry, on Gaza: “A Slaughter of Innocents”

Given his background, what American Jewish leader Henry Siegman has to say about Israel’s founding in 1948 through the current assault on Gaza may surprise you. From 1978 to 1994, Siegman served as executive director of the American Jewish Congress, long described as one of the nation’s “big...

www.democracynow.org

 

[DavidSon]

"

Henry Siegman, Leading Voice of U.S. Jewry, on Gaza: “A Slaughter of Innocents”

Given his background, what American Jewish leader Henry Siegman has to say about Israel’s founding in 1948 through the current assault on Gaza may surprise you. From 1978 to 1994, Siegman served as executive director of the American Jewish Congress, long described as one of the nation’s “big...

www.democracynow.org

That is great to hear his evaluation, thanks. I've felt this all along- there is no legitimacy in labeling Hamas or Hezbollah a terrorist organization when Israel has inflicted far more damage on their own in the region. The US and Israel calling anyone a terrorist is total hypocrisy.

Along with being terribly frustrating the dissonance from the Israeli/Zionist side is bewildering. Just like the UN statements on the "conflict", 95% or more of the world are critical of the treatment of the Palestinians. But the right-wing Israeli gov. and US CZ's truly don't get what the problem is. They are vampires, oppressors, torturers... yet God (or whatever force you call it) has blinded them from understanding how evil they are. They are sociopaths without normal human emotions. This quote from Kushner is a perfect example:

“It’s a big opportunity for the Palestinians and they have a perfect track record of blowing every opportunity they’ve had in their past, but perhaps maybe their leadership will read the details of it, stop posturing and do what’s best to try to make the Palestinians’ lives better.”

This is straight up trolling. It's becoming more apparent to me these people can't help themselves. It's not just some elaborate set of lies to obfuscate reality; these figures are ruled by death and cruelty. There's no other way to say it than they are satanically possessed. If you sat down with any normal human being, explaining the facts of the situation, they would say, "wow this doesn't sound fair." To add that these people claim to be "of the Book" and a symbol of the God of Peace... I don't know if there is a greater mockery of truth in the world today.

 

[A Freeman]

http://www.renegadetribune.com/israel-is-the-worlds-biggest-terrorist-state/

 

[rainerann]

That is great to hear his evaluation, thanks. I've felt this all along- there is no legitimacy in labeling Hamas or Hezbollah a terrorist organization when Israel has inflicted far more damage on their own in the region. The US and Israel calling anyone a terrorist is total hypocrisy.

Along with being terribly frustrating the dissonance from the Israeli/Zionist side is bewildering. Just like the UN statements on the "conflict", 95% or more of the world are critical of the treatment of the Palestinians. But the right-wing Israeli gov. and US CZ's truly don't get what the problem is. They are vampires, oppressors, torturers... yet God (or whatever force you call it) has blinded them from understanding how evil they are. They are sociopaths without normal human emotions. This quote from Kushner is a perfect example:



This is straight up trolling. It's becoming more apparent to me these people can't help themselves. It's not just some elaborate set of lies to obfuscate reality; these figures are ruled by death and cruelty. There's no other way to say it than they are satanically possessed. If you sat down with any normal human being, explaining the facts of the situation, they would say, "wow this doesn't sound fair." To add that these people claim to be "of the Book" and a symbol of the God of Peace... I don't know if there is a greater mockery of truth in the world today.

Yeah, I think he is just amazing. I love how his empathy resonates so well throughout what he is saying. It is this evidence of genuine empathy that is so often missing in statements like the one you are quoting about posturing that has always been a major red flag for me that something isn't right in what they are saying. They are just not being completely honest about something.

This was actually just a snippet from part one of a longer interview that you might be interested in too.