I am alive

[Douglas Summers]

I am alive! Not because Christ died, but because He lives.
To the dead: The world does not hate you, but the world hates us, because we testify that its works are evil. But to the dead who believe not, none of you can come to Christ unless it were given unto him by the Father. But who can hear unless someone is sent to preach the Gospel.

I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, For it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believeth. To the Jew first and the nations. For in it is the righteousness of God, revealed from faith to faith (believing and receiving and growing and bvelieving more and receiving more to Spiritual maturity).
For the Wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who reject the Truth and condone unrighteousness.
For there is no man that is righteous....No, Not one! Whose mouth is full of cursing and unrighteousness. Their feet are swift to shed blood. For all of us have sinned. But my life is now in Christ Jesus by which I have access to the Father through the throne of Grace of Christ Jesus our Lord, who stands before the Father as our righteousness.

 

[Thunderian]

Amen!

 

[TokiEl]

But my life is now in Christ Jesus by which I have access to the Father through the throne of Grace of Christ Jesus our Lord, who stands before the Father as our righteousness.

1My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate before the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

3By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments. 4If anyone says, “I know Him,” but does not keep His commandments, he is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But if anyone keeps His word, the love of God has been truly perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him: 6Whoever claims to abide in Him must walk as Jesus walked.


Amen ?

 

[AspiringSoul]

how are you going to act all spiritual when most of you white people cannot exist without pig shit in your belly and dog shit on your faces?

 

[Lisa]

how are you going to act all spiritual when most of you white people cannot exist without pig shit in your belly and dog shit on your faces?

What the heck are ya talking about here?

 

[TokiEl]

how are you going to act all spiritual when most of you white people cannot exist without pig shit in your belly and dog shit on your faces?

I was waiting for you to go ape shit.

 

[AspiringSoul]

I was waiting for you to go ape shit.

nothing ape shit about that question.
white people/white Christians specifically have an unhealthy obsession with pork and dogs.
i personally think within there is a kind of unconscious rejection of the old testament.
so there's an unconscious attraction to filthy things or anything the God of the OT hated.

the NT teaches death of the flesh as superior to the struggle against the flesh
the OT laws represent the struggle against the flesh
so what does death of the flesh reflect externally?
pork? dogs?
if anything real christians would be vegan and in a state of ritual purity...afterall the body is the temple of God right?
baptised/initiated sikhs actually represent more of what christianity should be than you guys.

 

[Lisa]

white people/white Christians specifically have an unhealthy obsession with pork and dogs.

They do? What obsession?

if anything real christians would be vegan and in a state of ritual purity...afterall the body is the temple of God right?

I don’t see why real Christians need to be vegan.

 

[TokiEl]

nothing ape shit about that question.
white people/white Christians specifically have an unhealthy obsession with pork and dogs.
i personally think within there is a kind of unconscious rejection of the old testament.
so there's an unconscious attraction to filthy things or anything the God of the OT hated.

the NT teaches death of the flesh as superior to the struggle against the flesh
the OT laws represent the struggle against the flesh
so what does death of the flesh reflect externally?
pork? dogs?
if anything real christians would be vegan and in a state of ritual purity...afterall the body is the temple of God right?
baptised/initiated sikhs actually represent more of what christianity should be than you guys.

You don't see me call you guys brown people/brown muslims... and that's because i don't seperate people by the color of their skin.

I know not very popular with nazis... but i'm not a nazi.

 

[AspiringSoul]

You don't see me call you guys brown people/brown muslims... and that's because i don't seperate people by the color of their skin.

I know not very popular with nazis... but i'm not a nazi.

racism is an irrational hate towards people of another colour/race/culture
there is nothing wrong with criticising genuine problems connected with a race of people.
i myself, criticise my own people for a lot of dumb shit they do.

the other thing is, i tend to have more criticism towards christians because of how high you elevate yourselves.
every muslim i know will say 'i'm a sinner, may Allah forgive me'
whereas christians say 'im saved, Jesus died for me'
and i argue against that eg if you were really alive in Jesus then you wouldnt be obsessing with dogs and pigs the way you do.

@Lisa
here's a muslim version

Baqaa - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

here's a christian version

Theosis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

they refer to the same metaphysical level, to be in 'union' with God...at least in a metaphysical/spiritual sense whereby God acts through people.
i imagine, that authentic christianity as taught in the epistles, reflects that level...

as for veganism, well, i eat meat to be healthy and strong. in doing so i serve my flesh.
if i was dead to the flesh and in a state of baqaa or theosis, i would be in an almost miraculous state, healthy through God's grace and not in need of meat.
i know this sounds dumb, but when i was a kid with an active imagination, i would read historical sufi texts and stories of prophets
the stories of miracles eg this one

Tay al-Ard - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

they told me that the limitations of the body we experience can be surpassed. its kind of like going through a process of self-mortication...to get to that level..until a person experiences carnal death, what the sufis called 'death before death'
except for christians this has already been done by Jesus and you only need to connect with him on a spiritual/metaphysical level.
eg to become branches on that tree..and thereby attaining natural qualities..

post-resurrection, Jesus ate fish, but only to demonstrate that he was indeed resurrected.
he has no NEED for the meat/protein content at all.
on that basis, there would be no need to eat meat.
now this also extends to a higher level of the need for food itself.
although getting to those extreme levels, ive similarly read stories of ascetics..christian, jewish, muslim, hindu going for lengthy periods of time without food/water and still being healthy.

yet if you look at christianity, Jesus said 'the greatest of the OT prophets ie jonah, is less than the least of christians..
just dwell on that for a bit.

im elevating christianity here and dissing cultural faux christianity. i hold authentic christianity in high esteem actually.

 

[Lisa]

@Lisa
here's a muslim version

Baqaa - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

here's a christian version

Theosis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

they refer to the same metaphysical level, to be in 'union' with God...at least in a metaphysical/spiritual sense whereby God acts through people.
i imagine, that authentic christianity as taught in the epistles, reflects that level...

as for veganism, well, i eat meat to be healthy and strong. in doing so i serve my flesh.
if i was dead to the flesh and in a state of baqaa or theosis, i would be in an almost miraculous state, healthy through God's grace and not in need of meat.
i know this sounds dumb, but when i was a kid with an active imagination, i would read historical sufi texts and stories of prophets
the stories of miracles eg this one

Tay al-Ard - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

they told me that the limitations of the body we experience can be surpassed. its kind of like going through a process of self-mortication...to get to that level..until a person experiences carnal death, what the sufis called 'death before death'
except for christians this has already been done by Jesus and you only need to connect with him on a spiritual/metaphysical level.
eg to become branches on that tree..and thereby attaining natural qualities..

post-resurrection, Jesus ate fish, but only to demonstrate that he was indeed resurrected.
he has no NEED for the meat/protein content at all.
on that basis, there would be no need to eat meat.
now this also extends to a higher level of the need for food itself.
although getting to those extreme levels, ive similarly read stories of ascetics..christian, jewish, muslim, hindu going for lengthy periods of time without food/water and still being healthy.

yet if you look at christianity, Jesus said 'the greatest of the OT prophets ie jonah, is less than the least of christians..
just dwell on that for a bit.

im elevating christianity here and dissing cultural faux christianity. i hold authentic christianity in high esteem actually.

Wikipedia says that theosis is Eastern orthodox...that’s not christianity.

Sounds more like insanity when you’re talking about eating meat and being a vegan, honestly. Having no meat doesn’t bring you to some miraculous state.


Is it only belief that someone can travel in the blink of an eye..or have you done it?

I think you misunderstand what being the branches on the tree means. It does mean you need Jesus to do the things He has prepared for you..but that doesn’t mean you are going to do anything supernatural.

Where does Jesus say that about Jonah?

 

[AspiringSoul]

Wikipedia says that theosis is Eastern orthodox...that’s not christianity.

Sounds more like insanity when you’re talking about eating meat and being a vegan, honestly. Having no meat doesn’t bring you to some miraculous state.


Is it only belief that someone can travel in the blink of an eye..or have you done it?

I think you misunderstand what being the branches on the tree means. It does mean you need Jesus to do the things He has prepared for you..but that doesn’t mean you are going to do anything supernatural.

Where does Jesus say that about Jonah?

1) Theosis was expounded by people like Athanasius, from which you base your trinitarian doctrine. You have a lot to learn about these concepts. However basically theosis is just an adopted term applied to the idea of 'sonship' taught in the new testament. Union with God through Jesus Christ
example

Bible Gateway passage: John 15 - New International Version

The Vine and the Branches - “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in...

www.biblegateway.com

2) i didnt even say being vegan would bring you into a miraculous state.
I said being in union/theosis (as per John 15), the sonship with Paul spoke of, would bring you into a heightened spiritual state that surpasses our carnal nature. Get it? to be DEAD in the flesh. This is what christianity teaches.
'we died with him'
to be dead in the flesh does mean a miraculous state whereby you dont need your little caloric intake and protein/macro diet ..
you dont need to be on frigging keto diet if you're dead in the flesh. Now granted after the resurrection, Jesus ate fish, but it was only to demonstrate he wasnt a ghost..but was in the body. Jesus didnt need to eat anything in that state.

Jesus said
Man shall not live by. bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

you asked
Is it only belief that someone can travel in the blink of an eye..or have you done it?
the story in the Quran refers to a person who worked for Solomon, who posessed that power (by God's Will)..but you're missing the point, this is only 1 example. in the NT, those who had the holy spirit possessed various miraculous powers.

Also, there are different levels of spirituality within islam, the 'karamats' (miracles) performed by men are subject to God's gift. I cant really tell you what ive done, im a sinful guy..but ill tell you one thing, i have 100% experienced direct healing through God's word in my own self. i had a condition that has no cure..even it's origins arent properly understood, yet it was healed after i went into a period of seclusion and prayer. However that is far far less than whatis possible through the 'sonship' Paul spoke of...afterall submitting to God's laws is 'slavery' as paul said. The difference between slavery and sonship is described as the state of islam (submission/duality) and state of ihsan (unity) in islam.
Ihsan, is a universal concept, the term may be islamic/arabic here..but major religions still believe in the concept.

Jesus said himself
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these,

3) do you know why i single out christians for criticism and not muslims?
WE dont claim to be in sonship or in a state of ihsan. The vast majority of muslims inc myself are not even in a state of islam/submission, but in a state of iman (belief) which is the lowest state.

Christianity makes bold claims. It's not my job to judge christianity..but i can judge christians by the standards taught by christianity in the NT.
If you arent dead to the flesh, then you arent part of the tree..and hence are not really a christians.

4)
but that doesn’t mean you are going to do anything supernatural.

but
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these,
remember this is even before the crucifixion, if Jesus got angry with the disciples on account of their weak faith then...what about post-crucifixion/resurrection?

'anything you ask in my name' etc.

 

[Lisa]

1) Theosis was expounded by people like Athanasius, from which you base your trinitarian doctrine. You have a lot to learn about these concepts. However basically theosis is just an adopted term applied to the idea of 'sonship' taught in the new testament. Union with God through Jesus Christ
example

Bible Gateway passage: John 15 - New International Version

The Vine and the Branches - “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in...

www.biblegateway.com

2) i didnt even say being vegan would bring you into a miraculous state.
I said being in union/theosis (as per John 15), the sonship with Paul spoke of, would bring you into a heightened spiritual state that surpasses our carnal nature. Get it? to be DEAD in the flesh. This is what christianity teaches.
'we died with him'
to be dead in the flesh does mean a miraculous state whereby you dont need your little caloric intake and protein/macro diet ..
you dont need to be on frigging keto diet if you're dead in the flesh. Now granted after the resurrection, Jesus ate fish, but it was only to demonstrate he wasnt a ghost..but was in the body. Jesus didnt need to eat anything in that state.

Jesus said
Man shall not live by. bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

you asked
Is it only belief that someone can travel in the blink of an eye..or have you done it?
the story in the Quran refers to a person who worked for Solomon, who posessed that power (by God's Will)..but you're missing the point, this is only 1 example. in the NT, those who had the holy spirit possessed various miraculous powers.

Also, there are different levels of spirituality within islam, the 'karamats' (miracles) performed by men are subject to God's gift. I cant really tell you what ive done, im a sinful guy..but ill tell you one thing, i have 100% experienced direct healing through God's word in my own self. i had a condition that has no cure..even it's origins arent properly understood, yet it was healed after i went into a period of seclusion and prayer. However that is far far less than whatis possible through the 'sonship' Paul spoke of...afterall submitting to God's laws is 'slavery' as paul said. The difference between slavery and sonship is described as the state of islam (submission/duality) and state of ihsan (unity) in islam.
Ihsan, is a universal concept, the term may be islamic/arabic here..but major religions still believe in the concept.

Jesus said himself
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these,

3) do you know why i single out christians for criticism and not muslims?
WE dont claim to be in sonship or in a state of ihsan. The vast majority of muslims inc myself are not even in a state of islam/submission, but in a state of iman (belief) which is the lowest state.

Christianity makes bold claims. It's not my job to judge christianity..but i can judge christians by the standards taught by christianity in the NT.
If you arent dead to the flesh, then you arent part of the tree..and hence are not really a christians.

4)
but that doesn’t mean you are going to do anything supernatural.

but
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these,
remember this is even before the crucifixion, if Jesus got angry with the disciples on account of their weak faith then...what about post-crucifixion/resurrection?

'anything you ask in my name' etc.

1.) No, I base my doctrine from the Bible.

2.) Must have read that wrong...its seemed like you said it.

You’ve lost me with the diet stuff, what is your meaning?

What word were you healed with?

3.) Sanctification..

4.) Sure..God can do anything..most likely though it won’t be supernatural..

 

[JoChris]

how are you going to act all spiritual when most of you white people cannot exist without pig shit in your belly and dog shit on your faces?

What's with Muslims drinking camel urine? Recorded footage of exactly that:

video from pro-Islam clip, he is so embarrassed about Muhammad's teaching at first he did not read the whole passage beginning 0:20.

The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease." (Sahih Al-Bukhari: Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537)

So you should start drinking camel urine and dunking flies in your drink when you have the opportunity. Be a good Muslim and obey your prophet.

P.S. speculations went from 5% to 20% prophecies being possibly incorrect within 30 seconds. True prophets should be 100% correct.

 

[AspiringSoul]

1.) No, I base my doctrine from the Bible.

2.) Must have read that wrong...its seemed like you said it.

You’ve lost me with the diet stuff, what is your meaning?

What word were you healed with?

3.) Sanctification..

4.) Sure..God can do anything..most likely though it won’t be supernatural..

1) sorry but you don't.
'in the beginning was the Word..and the Word WAS WITH God and the Word IS GOD'
two contradictory statements. if it is God, it can't be With God.

me: one statement is logical and one is mystical..the 2 seemingly contradictory statements are due to 2 different types of perspectives.
athanasius: lets take the mystical statement, take it as literally as possible, but ignore the logical part, let's pretend that part doesnt exist.
you: derp

2) I was healed with reciting certain God's names (which i chose because they meant something)

Names of God in Islam - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

simple.wikipedia.org

there is a deeper system in this eg there are attributes that are severe to read..for example if you wanted Justice in your life..and read
Al 'Adl or Al Hakam as an example...it can backfire if you've done bad things too.
i can tell you in private what i suffered from if you want...it was something quite literally physical (not psychological) and affected me for a long time before i got myself into a state of mind to stop all other forms of treatment and seek healing.

3) no the diet stuff isnt particularly important..but it is in my view a consequence of a deep spiritual life eg if someone was truely experiencing that type of unity with God, through Jesus, they wouldnt need to worry about getting in the right macros in their diet eg eating the right amount of protein. It would make no difference to them whether they ate rice or pork or chicken.
Now the allowance of all foods as per Peter's vision, was in that context, whereby christianity was going to spread to gentile people who were already conditioned to eat certain foods.
let me give you an example
it is halal for me to eat beef. yet, i have hindu friends too, but aside from that just knowing they dont...i wouldnt eat beef for their sake.
if i was following Jesus in the way you claim to do...and i knew he didnt eat pork, it would be a personal preference for me not to eat pork. I could assume things like 'oh but it was allowed' but even if its allowed doesnt mean i need to.
yet roman christian civilisation is in a state of unconscious hostility towards the OT laws...so they dont JUST eat pork...
no, they literally worship the damn thing (coming from a guy with a pakistani muslim background growing up in England around white people).
actually in islam it is considered disagreeable to consume meat on consecutive days..it is seen as greed/extravagance aswell as unhealthy. that is just general morality in islam, but again in my mind i tend to elevate 'authentic christianity' to a much higher spiritual level and assume they would at the very least, not be obsessed with particular foods.
i have gone as far as to say they would be in a miraculous state.

you may be unfamiliar with this stuff but it's like the siddhis/powers attaned by hindu ascetics.

Siddhi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

these siddhis are not demonic or anything, they are natural powers of the soul..the idea being that the mind/body (our carnal nature itself) covers our inherent abilities..and we can gradually peel off the layers and experience those powers.

on a small scale, its like OBE's..etheric/astral projection or whatever type of names they go by. we cannot physically see the spirit world, yet literally if you just shut off your senses (touch, hearing, seeing, smell etc) for a brief moment, quite literally you can see an entire different world and beings in that world.

there are many people who even without religion have experienced some of these natural powers, for example...
precognition, clairvoyance etc.

don't get me wrong. in religions like islam and christianity, these particular things are not meant to be 'strived for'..if they come they come, but you dont stop there. to strive for them is a form of polythiesm..because the persuit ought to be 'God' not 'powers'.
the natural powers attainable through Jesus Christ would be what?
seriously, if Jesus said the least of the christians would be greater than Jonah, what do you think would be attainable to a true christian?
those natural abilities are there because we're made in God's Image.

3)
Sanctification is the same as purification...but that is only part of the process..part of merging, but theosis is what comes from it.
think of it this way...thesosis is becoming a branch in the tree..it is merging with the Image/word/son of God, becoming 'Christ like' and literally 'dying with him' (in the carnal sense).
in my mind, that implies a person gives up all manner of carnal attachments..and it is the equivalent of martydom in islam, dying for the sake of Allah.
this is why it is said that martyrs are living, not dead...which is ironic given the title of this thread.

Christianity in unique in that it allows you to attain these levels by merging with Jesus through Love.
The problem is, living in a different and sinful time, it is hard to imagine most christians attaining that depth of love for Jesus. the people living closer to Jesus were more merged with that energy.

4) of course it is supernatural lol. the things Jesus got the disciples to do were supernatural.
Don't forget what Jesus said
'you will do many more things than these'.
what is supernatural anyway? they are natural powers of the soul anyway, we were made in God's Image remember.

teleportation for example..it seems hard to imagine..yet im telling you this is a natural ability of the soul and can be unveiled.
the sufi Azeemia order (from pakistan) have written books telling you that you can simply attain it all by concentration.albeit concentration beyond the theta/delta brainwave states (not their words directly but what i gathered from them).

 

[AspiringSoul]

What's with Muslims drinking camel urine? Recorded footage of exactly that:

video from pro-Islam clip, he is so embarrassed about Muhammad's teaching at first he did not read the whole passage beginning 0:20.

The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease." (Sahih Al-Bukhari: Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537)

So you should start drinking camel urine and dunking flies in your drink when you have the opportunity. Be a good Muslim and obey your prophet.

P.S. speculations went from 5% to 20% prophecies being possibly incorrect within 30 seconds. True prophets should be 100% correct.

1) that was medicinal advice given to some people in A particular context. it's not like they had Aspirin back then.
2) how come every other muslim didnt start drinking camel piss? they didnt because that advice wasnt given to them or meant for them. with that said when i see/hear of muslims drinking it today, i think 'uneducated morons' because they have no prophetic advice given to them suggesting it is good for them, they have nothing but their own assumption. now, the ignorance of muslims isnt something im going to overlook..but im focusing on christianity here.
3) ever heard of Premarin?

Conjugated estrogens - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

4) a lot of religiousness mythos..it's mainly about beliefs and attitudes. fact is people in india have a stronger immune sysyem than people in the west, why? their immune systems have adjusted.
that's why we suffer from superbugs that come from india, yet the people there are perfectly ok.
the american natives were wiped out by a common flu passed onto them by europeans.
when i used to go pakistan and saw flies on the street food, i couldnt eat it..and yeh i got the shits fairly fast lmfao...yet all my family were saying 'you brits are soft'
after a couple of weeks i'd adjusted and was totally fine.
furthermore, if people were in abject poverty as many literally were in that time/place, giving them advice like that, effectively telling them to just get on with it and drink the rest of their water/milk, that wasnt bad advice imo.
it also doesnt mean you delibarely should drunk flies in your drink lmao, but if a drink falls in, get on with it. i dont literally believe a fly carries the disease in one wing and cure in the other, thats just the mythos part. what i take from it is 'just get on with it'.
the 'cure' in this case is a strong immune system.

5) with that said..i dont believe in hadith without contexts...they are mere historical sources often full of contradictions/historical inaccuracies. We dont know what was said, the true context/intent (ie the mythos behind it) or if the people who passed the narration on, fully understood it. In fact Umar, the second caliph of islam had the chance to compile every available hadith in his time (which would have been more accurate and more numerous) and yet in the end he refused on the basis that it could contain errors. in his view even a single error was a problem.
the truth is the hadith collections all came during the Abbasid era and were used to consolidate power..because back then the shia-sunni schism was political not religious. it's why they are all persian, because back then the shia were based in iraq and sunnis in persia. it's as much a reason why hadith like the one of aisha being a child virgin bride exist..because the shia were accusing her of being a 'whore' (put things into perspective)...so the idea of presenting aisha as the noble child virgin bride who was pure...yet even still the sunni version inc the accusations against her albeit with a diff conclusion.

6) what prophecies? i agree with 'prophets should be 100% correct' but how do you know the hadith books which came 200 yrs after Mohammad are even accurate?
case in point..
the hadith collections talk about the Mahdi coming from khorosan..and an army carrying black flags.
which just happen to be the Abbasid banner (duh)..and i have even noticed that theme, the flags..is borrowed from zoroastrian prophecy of their saviour..only the flags would be tiger skin.
then there's the side of prophecy that is 'self fulfilling'.

the hadith, whilst giving us various prophecies...only relay the message that Mohammad used to prophecise things in his time that were literally fulfilled in his time.
the end times prophecies which are many, actually are very accurate..but then like i said, there's self fulfilling prophecy.

unfortunately you're not a muslim so dont understand various things eg you dont know what najd is, how that applies to house saud and the prophecies about them.
you could only appreciate those prophecies if you have some basic understanding of geography and the history of islam..aswell as how those prophecies fit into other end times prophecies.

this used to be my fav topic...if you want to convince me islam's prophecies are wrong, you're barking up the wrong tree. it's one of the very things that kept me attached to islam. after reading the bible, i was even more convinced about the validity of islam.
make of that what you will..but whatever you think...i wouldn't compromise on truth to defend a religion or book. if i thought it was bs i would say it. i dont even have a strong affinity towards the ave muslim..
but then again that's okay because the same hadith say
'you will be scum of the sea'

 

[JoChris]

1) that was medicinal advice given to some people in A particular context. it's not like they had Aspirin back then.
2) how come every other muslim didnt start drinking camel piss? they didnt because that advice wasnt given to them or meant for them. with that said when i see/hear of muslims drinking it today, i think 'uneducated morons' because they have no prophetic advice given to them suggesting it is good for them, they have nothing but their own assumption. now, the ignorance of muslims isnt something im going to overlook..but im focusing on christianity here.
3) ever heard of Premarin?

Conjugated estrogens - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

4) a lot of religiousness mythos..it's mainly about beliefs and attitudes. fact is people in india have a stronger immune sysyem than people in the west, why? their immune systems have adjusted.
that's why we suffer from superbugs that come from india, yet the people there are perfectly ok.
the american natives were wiped out by a common flu passed onto them by europeans.
when i used to go pakistan and saw flies on the street food, i couldnt eat it..and yeh i got the shits fairly fast lmfao...yet all my family were saying 'you brits are soft'
after a couple of weeks i'd adjusted and was totally fine.
furthermore, if people were in abject poverty as many literally were in that time/place, giving them advice like that, effectively telling them to just get on with it and drink the rest of their water/milk, that wasnt bad advice imo.
it also doesnt mean you delibarely should drunk flies in your drink lmao, but if a drink falls in, get on with it. i dont literally believe a fly carries the disease in one wing and cure in the other, thats just the mythos part. what i take from it is 'just get on with it'.
the 'cure' in this case is a strong immune system.

5) with that said..i dont believe in hadith without contexts...they are mere historical sources often full of contradictions/historical inaccuracies. We dont know what was said, the true context/intent (ie the mythos behind it) or if the people who passed the narration on, fully understood it. In fact Umar, the second caliph of islam had the chance to compile every available hadith in his time (which would have been more accurate and more numerous) and yet in the end he refused on the basis that it could contain errors. in his view even a single error was a problem.
the truth is the hadith collections all came during the Abbasid era and were used to consolidate power..because back then the shia-sunni schism was political not religious. it's why they are all persian, because back then the shia were based in iraq and sunnis in persia. it's as much a reason why hadith like the one of aisha being a child virgin bride exist..because the shia were accusing her of being a 'whore' (put things into perspective)...so the idea of presenting aisha as the noble child virgin bride who was pure...yet even still the sunni version inc the accusations against her albeit with a diff conclusion.

6) what prophecies? i agree with 'prophets should be 100% correct' but how do you know the hadith books which came 200 yrs after Mohammad are even accurate?
case in point..
the hadith collections talk about the Mahdi coming from khorosan..and an army carrying black flags.
which just happen to be the Abbasid banner (duh)..and i have even noticed that theme, the flags..is borrowed from zoroastrian prophecy of their saviour..only the flags would be tiger skin.
then there's the side of prophecy that is 'self fulfilling'.

the hadith, whilst giving us various prophecies...only relay the message that Mohammad used to prophecise things in his time that were literally fulfilled in his time.
the end times prophecies which are many, actually are very accurate..but then like i said, there's self fulfilling prophecy.

unfortunately you're not a muslim so dont understand various things eg you dont know what najd is, how that applies to house saud and the prophecies about them.
you could only appreciate those prophecies if you have some basic understanding of geography and the history of islam..aswell as how those prophecies fit into other end times prophecies.

this used to be my fav topic...if you want to convince me islam's prophecies are wrong, you're barking up the wrong tree. it's one of the very things that kept me attached to islam. after reading the bible, i was even more convinced about the validity of islam.
make of that what you will..but whatever you think...i wouldn't compromise on truth to defend a religion or book. if i thought it was bs i would say it. i dont even have a strong affinity towards the ave muslim..
but then again that's okay because the same hadith say
'you will be scum of the sea'

For your interest sake: a newbie Christian apologist who is really into the intellectual side of examining Islamic texts is LIVE right now:

You should contribute in comments against us meanie Christians to provide some "balance".

 

[Lisa]

1) sorry but you don't.
'in the beginning was the Word..and the Word WAS WITH God and the Word IS GOD'
two contradictory statements. if it is God, it can't be With God.

me: one statement is logical and one is mystical..the 2 seemingly contradictory statements are due to 2 different types of perspectives.
athanasius: lets take the mystical statement, take it as literally as possible, but ignore the logical part, let's pretend that part doesnt exist.
you: derp

2) I was healed with reciting certain God's names (which i chose because they meant something)

Names of God in Islam - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

simple.wikipedia.org

there is a deeper system in this eg there are attributes that are severe to read..for example if you wanted Justice in your life..and read
Al 'Adl or Al Hakam as an example...it can backfire if you've done bad things too.
i can tell you in private what i suffered from if you want...it was something quite literally physical (not psychological) and affected me for a long time before i got myself into a state of mind to stop all other forms of treatment and seek healing.

3) no the diet stuff isnt particularly important..but it is in my view a consequence of a deep spiritual life eg if someone was truely experiencing that type of unity with God, through Jesus, they wouldnt need to worry about getting in the right macros in their diet eg eating the right amount of protein. It would make no difference to them whether they ate rice or pork or chicken.
Now the allowance of all foods as per Peter's vision, was in that context, whereby christianity was going to spread to gentile people who were already conditioned to eat certain foods.
let me give you an example
it is halal for me to eat beef. yet, i have hindu friends too, but aside from that just knowing they dont...i wouldnt eat beef for their sake.
if i was following Jesus in the way you claim to do...and i knew he didnt eat pork, it would be a personal preference for me not to eat pork. I could assume things like 'oh but it was allowed' but even if its allowed doesnt mean i need to.
yet roman christian civilisation is in a state of unconscious hostility towards the OT laws...so they dont JUST eat pork...
no, they literally worship the damn thing (coming from a guy with a pakistani muslim background growing up in England around white people).
actually in islam it is considered disagreeable to consume meat on consecutive days..it is seen as greed/extravagance aswell as unhealthy. that is just general morality in islam, but again in my mind i tend to elevate 'authentic christianity' to a much higher spiritual level and assume they would at the very least, not be obsessed with particular foods.
i have gone as far as to say they would be in a miraculous state.

you may be unfamiliar with this stuff but it's like the siddhis/powers attaned by hindu ascetics.

Siddhi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

these siddhis are not demonic or anything, they are natural powers of the soul..the idea being that the mind/body (our carnal nature itself) covers our inherent abilities..and we can gradually peel off the layers and experience those powers.

on a small scale, its like OBE's..etheric/astral projection or whatever type of names they go by. we cannot physically see the spirit world, yet literally if you just shut off your senses (touch, hearing, seeing, smell etc) for a brief moment, quite literally you can see an entire different world and beings in that world.

there are many people who even without religion have experienced some of these natural powers, for example...
precognition, clairvoyance etc.

don't get me wrong. in religions like islam and christianity, these particular things are not meant to be 'strived for'..if they come they come, but you dont stop there. to strive for them is a form of polythiesm..because the persuit ought to be 'God' not 'powers'.
the natural powers attainable through Jesus Christ would be what?
seriously, if Jesus said the least of the christians would be greater than Jonah, what do you think would be attainable to a true christian?
those natural abilities are there because we're made in God's Image.

3)
Sanctification is the same as purification...but that is only part of the process..part of merging, but theosis is what comes from it.
think of it this way...thesosis is becoming a branch in the tree..it is merging with the Image/word/son of God, becoming 'Christ like' and literally 'dying with him' (in the carnal sense).
in my mind, that implies a person gives up all manner of carnal attachments..and it is the equivalent of martydom in islam, dying for the sake of Allah.
this is why it is said that martyrs are living, not dead...which is ironic given the title of this thread.

Christianity in unique in that it allows you to attain these levels by merging with Jesus through Love.
The problem is, living in a different and sinful time, it is hard to imagine most christians attaining that depth of love for Jesus. the people living closer to Jesus were more merged with that energy.

4) of course it is supernatural lol. the things Jesus got the disciples to do were supernatural.
Don't forget what Jesus said
'you will do many more things than these'.
what is supernatural anyway? they are natural powers of the soul anyway, we were made in God's Image remember.

teleportation for example..it seems hard to imagine..yet im telling you this is a natural ability of the soul and can be unveiled.
the sufi Azeemia order (from pakistan) have written books telling you that you can simply attain it all by concentration.albeit concentration beyond the theta/delta brainwave states (not their words directly but what i gathered from them).

1.) He was with the Father in the beginning. He tells us before Abraham, I Am. Where God tells Moses that His name is I Am. In the garden God said He created man in Our image. God is one but three persons. It isn’t because some great thinkers came up with it..it is true because God said its true in the Bible.

2.) No that’s ok..I don’t need to know your physical ailment. I can concede that someone may be healed like that but it’s not always the way God does things. Sometimes the healing doesn’t come or the miracle you wanted doesn’t happen is all I’m saying.

3.) You died with Christ once you believe..being baptized you are raised in Him. They old man goes down in the water..the new man comes out. But we are being saved all‭‭ our lives, we don’t come out new and perfect...the sanctification is a lifelong process and isn’t contingent on whether or not you eat meat or are a vegan.

4.) No, people can’t teleport..wishing you can is not the same as having the ability too. Now, the new bodies we get...maybe that’s a possibility? But to get those bodies, one must become a Christian, believe on the Lord Jesus and be saved....otherwise there is the only other choice..thrown in the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Douglas Summers]

1.) He was with the Father in the beginning. He tells us before Abraham, I Am. Where God tells Moses that His name is I Am. In the garden God said He created man in Our image. God is one but three persons. It isn’t because some great thinkers came up with it..it is true because God said its true in the Bible.

2.) No that’s ok..I don’t need to know your physical ailment. I can concede that someone may be healed like that but it’s not always the way God does things. Sometimes the healing doesn’t come or the miracle you wanted doesn’t happen is all I’m saying.

3.) You died with Christ once you believe..being baptized you are raised in Him. They old man goes down in the water..the new man comes out. But we are being saved all‭‭ our lives, we don’t come out new and perfect...the sanctification is a lifelong process and isn’t contingent on whether or not you eat meat or are a vegan.

4.) No, people can’t teleport..wishing you can is not the same as having the ability too. Now, the new bodies we get...maybe that’s a possibility? But to get those bodies, one must become a Christian, believe on the Lord Jesus and be saved....otherwise there is the only other choice..thrown in the lake of fire where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Hi Lesa, It does no good to try to teach the enemies of God. They are only here to annoy and harass believers. Their judgment has been decided long ago. Satan moves around like a roaring Lion, seeking to whom he may devour. Shun the evil and put on the full armor of God that you may withstand the evil and with the shield of faith that we may withstand the fiery darts of Satan, Preaching therefor the Gospel of peace.

 

[Lisa]

Hi Lesa, It does no good to try to teach the enemies of God. They are only here to annoy and harass believers. Their judgment has been decided long ago. Satan moves around like a roaring Lion, seeking to whom he may devour. Shun the evil and put on the full armor of God that you may withstand the evil and with the shield of faith that we may withstand the fiery darts of Satan, Preaching therefor the Gospel of peace.

‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4:2‬ ‭
Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.​